Christianity With No Heaven

[Fweethawt]

I think my god consciousness needs to tell my higher mental self to tell my physically manifested self to stop eating these spicy hot wings. 

 

But...

 

Not eating hot wings is a Sin!

 

Surely your God Consciousness wouldn't lead you into Sin?!?!

 

 

[Abiyoyo]

To the Christians here.

If Heaven were not part of the Christian Faith, would you still believe in it?

 

What else would have to be offered in place of Heaven for you to believe if your answer to the first question is "No."?

 

Fwee

Obviously, I posted this as a sister-thread to TAP's other thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Heaven is just the place I will stay

 

Christ is the father I never had, and I will be with Him and my family for eternity. (Remeber, Jesus said that Abraham was glad to see His day) That tells me I will still be me, just in all perfectness, and rightousness. Living in the Spirit of God.

 

I have a question. If there was a Heaven, just God, Jesus Christ that actually lived and was the Son of God; would you still not believe in Them? I think thats a fair question, as was yours.

[bluewizard]

What if there was no heaven or hell at all, and the life of a human ends at death.  Would Christians still be Christians?  would they still worship God?

 

Most Christians say that the "real" reason they are Christians is because they love and want to serve God.  But my theory has always been if you take away "hell" a third will leave, free from fear.  If you take away the heaven fantasy- which has the dual role of alleviating the fear of dying and comforting one during the loss of a loved one- I think 2 maybe 3% would stay.  Tops. 1% would stay because they feel it is right to worship a god and the other 1-2% would be reconstructionist types who want to turn the world into a "kingdom of God on earth".

 

Since there is no discernable different (paranoia and exclusiveness aside) between Christians and non-Christians, what would be the point of worshipping if there wasn't an eternal punchline.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hell is the pnly reason my dad tries to get me to become a Christian. He said all I want you is to be saved so I because I wouldn't want my son to go to Hell. He is there just for that reason I think and about most people. I haven't liked Christianity very much in my teen years and with exploring new religons and philosopihies I was tired of believing I would go to Hell if I died and decided I don't believe in Jesus anymore or God. I believe in the scientific proof that has been given plus I don't like some of xtianity's bizzare teachings on actions. I believe more into the Satanistic approach to things now. Live life to the fullest no matter what, you only exist for what, 60 or 70 years, live them without fear and with happiness. Even if I had become an xtian I would have left by now and became am atheist. Look at the bible unprejudicedly and you will see how absurd it is. ressurection is a joke, a perfect man is a joke, certain sins is a big joke, a personal God is a joke, all these things now sound absurd. I didn't like Xtiantiy in the first place. If I had to convert to 1 religion besides Satanism, it would be Judaism maybe. But I don't view religon as anything important, just somethimg people do. We're just animals, here by natural processes and we will go away into non existence by natural processes, religion isn't true, I wish all religions would go away except for the atheistic realistic types.

[bluewizard]

I think the idea of the perfect heaven, with no crime and no sin and hence no free will or search for more knowledge, it sounds like it hell to me!

 

Most people need challenge, change, progress, learn more things, think freely, even have the freedom to make a mistake. But in heaven, you will stand in the choir and sing for year, after year, after year, after year...

 

Probably more fun at the barbecue. The more I think about it, I probably prefer the party.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I will choose the Hell, think of all the cool people you'll meet there. And I want to meet that deceitful charcter Satan, what a great time. I'd rather be there than worshipping a mean God, even if he did exist(he doesn't in my opinion), my parents created me. The universe is expanding without any god, by natural process, even when I believed in xtianity I belived this. I will just say Hail Satan on my deathbed. I'll probably be a Satanist by then anyways.

[Fweethawt]

Heaven is just the place I will stay

 

Christ is the father I never had, and I will be with Him and my family for eternity. (Remeber, Jesus said that Abraham was glad to see His day) That tells me I will still be me, just in all perfectness, and rightousness. Living in the Spirit of God.

 

You didn't answer the question at all.

 

I have a question. If there was a Heaven, just God, Jesus Christ that actually lived and was the Son of God; would you still not believe in Them? I think thats a fair question, as was yours.

 

If there was a Heaven, a just God, and Jesus Christ that actually lived and was the Son of God, I wouldn't have to believe in them.

 

Think about that. If they were real, believing in them would be a moot point.

 

And... well... as you can see, by spending some time here, it is just that. A moot point.

[Abiyoyo]

No Amanda, hate means hate.  It isn't in regards that Jesus's ways are "higher" than ours, it is saying if you want to be HIS DISCIPLE you are not worthy unless you literally HATE your family(if they aren't willing to be his disciples in the way that jesus requires, if they are there is no reason for the "hate").  I almost left my "lukewarm" husband because of this verse.  I studied the hell out of it before almost ruining my family. Your attempts to soften god are not working. I appreciate your kindness and sweetness but I strongly disagree with you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True. I got to a point where I prayed(not knowing alot about scripture), going through very intense situations, with my family basically calling me a hypocrite. I prayed, and asked God Why?, I cant even stand the stubborness of my family, and how I dont even what to be around them. I was revealed this verse.

 

I would also like to point out that to be a disciple of Christ, this is the role. There are all kinds of followers, from small to great by His works. The key is believing and acting on this what you feel is your calling(amanda), whether that be a blazing fire of doctrine passing through your lips, or helping watch the little ones in church. All is serving in the kingdom of God, and following Him. Some are suttle, some are explosive. God is the ultimate weight of service.

[Abiyoyo]

You didn't answer the question at all. 

If there was a Heaven, a just God, and Jesus Christ that actually lived and was the Son of God, I wouldn't have to believe in them.

 

That was my answer?

 

 

 

Think about that. If they were real, believing in them would be a moot point.

 

And... well... as you can see, by spending some time here, it is just that. A moot point. 

 

Thats the point, I believe all these things by faith. God promised that all will see one day.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Fweethawt]

You didn't answer the question at all.  Wendyshrug.gif

If there was a Heaven, a just God, and Jesus Christ that actually lived and was the Son of God, I wouldn't have to believe in them.

That was my answer?

 

How could that not be an answer?

 

It's about 5,000 steps ahead of the answer that you gave for the questions in the opening post.

 

 

Think about that. If they were real, believing in them would be a moot point.

 

And... well... as you can see, by spending some time here, it is just that. A moot point.  Wendyshrug.gif

 

Thats the point, I believe all these things by faith. God promised that all will see one day.

 

No God ever promised a thing. You are mistaking words written in a book, by men, as your God.

 

You really don't understand the nature of this thread, do you?

[Guest aexapo]

But my theory has always been if you take away "hell" a third will leave, free from fear. If you take away the heaven fantasy- which has the dual role of alleviating the fear of dying and comforting one during the loss of a loved one- I think 2 maybe 3% would stay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think most people in my former faith (pentecostal) would bolt for the door if one could prove to those morons that they were FOS. More than 50% at least. In the bible-thumping variety, it's all about hell, hell, hell. Details upon details are expounded on, explaining each torment the backsliders, and reprobates will endure -- those who laughed and cursed at god, didn't pay their whole tithe, those who gossipped or undermined the pastor . . . oooo, I feel "tongues and interpretation" coming on!!!

[Vigile]

(Yo Yo)

Heaven is just the place I will stay 

 

(Fwee)

You didn't answer the question at all.

 

Fwee, I will translate Yo-Yo's christianese for you.  What he means is that he isnt' a Christian because of heaven or hell, but because he is in love with Jesus and can't wait to wear that white bride dress and get married to groom Jesus.  After that, it won't matter what heaven is like, because he is planning on spending eternity on his face, staring at Jesus' toes in holy reverence and fear.

 

   

 

And they don't even believe that shit themselves. They just tell it to themselves and their peers over and over because they know that's how they "should" feel even if deep down in their hearts they really don't. Why? Because how do you fall in love with an imaginary friend?

 

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

 

Ok, I'm generalizing. I'm sure some of them have a vivid enough imagination that they actually could fall in love, but I would argue these few are in the minority.

[fallenleaf]

Zoroastrianism introduced the cleansing with fire.

I don't think they really mean a hell, like a punishing place, but more like a cleansing from sins, and that was the redemption... Maybe it was more like cleansing for a while, but then you go to heaven afterwards... You've done your time in the bin, so to speak.

 

Fire was a big part of their symbolism.

 

Zoroastrian heaven was eternel. Their hell was/is indeed a place of extreme punishment. But it was not eternel... the souls were tormented until the final resurrection of all the world.

 

1. I came to a place, and I saw the soul of a man, (2) through the fundament of which soul, as it were a snake, like a beam, went in, and came forth out of the mouth; (3) and many other snakes ever seized all the limbs.

 

4. And I inquired of Srosh the pious, and Adar the angel, (5) thus: 'What sin was committed by this body, whose soul suffers so severe a punishment?'

 

6. Srosh the pious, and Adar the angel, said (7) thus: 'This is the soul of that wicked man, who, in the world, committed sodomy, (8) and allowed a man to come on his body; (9) now the soul suffers so severe a punishment.'

 

Translation... ye who like ass sex... will get it constantly by HUGE snakes who will crawl up your ass and out your mouth. Guess Christians aren't the only group which hates gays.

 

1.

    I came to a place, and I saw the soul of a woman, (2) to whom they ever gave to eat cup after cup of the impurity and filth of men.

3.

    And I asked thus: 'What sin was committed by this body, whose soul suffers suchl a punishment?'

4.

    Srosh the pious, and Adar the angel, said (5) thus: 'This is the soul of that wicked woman who, having not abstained, nor lawfully withheld herself, approached water and fire during her menstruation.'

 

Shit, this women gets to drink cum for the simple crime of daring to menstruate near water and fire?! Wait... is this a Bukkake video? I think I've seen this one.

 

1.

    I also saw the soul of a man, (2) into whose jaws they ever pour the impurity and menstrual discharge of women, (3) and he ever cooked and ate his own seemly child.

4.

    And I asked thus: 'What sin was committed by this body, whose soul suffers such a punishment?'

5.

    Srosh the pious, and Adar the angel, said (6) thus: 'This is the soul of that wicked man who, in the world, had intercourse with a menstruous woman; (7) and every single time, it is a sin of fifteen and a half Tanapuhrs.'

 

Damn... guess you better not earn your "red wings" here on Earth unless you're prepared to keep earning them as punishment.

 

1.

    I also saw the soul of a man (2) who, from head to foot, remained stretched upon a rack; (3) and a thousand demons trampled upon him, and ever smote him with great brutality and violence.

4.

    And I asked thus: 'What sin was committed by this body?'

5.

    Srosh the pious, and Adar the angel, said (6) thus: 'This is the soul of that wicked man who, in the world, collected much wealth; (7) and he consumed it not himself, and neither gave it, nor allowed a share, to the good; but kept it in store.'

 

Ah, at least the misers get what's coming to them!

 

Etc... etc.... etc...

 

Take my word for it... the Zoroastrian hell is worse than the Christian one. Freezing cold torture with a mountain on your back... digging a grave with your tits... eating various forms of filth. It's the real deal.

 

That said, it is believed by many scholars that the Jews adopted the heaven and hell ideology from their contact with Zoroastrianism... with the one exception that the Jews believed that God would allow some forms of evil to last forever and thus hell itself must last forever.

[Ouroboros]

I think I will choose the Hell, think of all the cool people you'll meet there.  And I want to meet that deceitful charcter Satan, what a great time.  I'd rather be there than worshipping a mean God, even if he did exist(he doesn't in my opinion), my parents created me.  The universe is expanding without any god, by natural process, even when I believed in xtianity I belived this.  I will just say Hail Satan on my deathbed.  I'll  probably be a Satanist by then anyways.

 

Satan is cool. At least he stood up for himself, he knew what he wanted, had a free will, and exercised his god-damn-given right to use his free will.

 

Satan would support and believe the constitution of America, because he's the symbol of all free will and knowledge.

 

Sorry, got a bit carried away there, but it's kinda true...

 

I never in my life thought I would say something like I did above!!!

 

 

Other topic: Amanda...

 

I have the answer. Amanda belongs to the Christian denomination that is call: Amandaism, and they have so far managed to get 1 member.

[Ouroboros]

Zoroastrian heaven was eternel.  Their hell was/is indeed a place of extreme punishment.  But it was not eternel... the souls were tormented until the final resurrection of all the world. 

Translation... ye who like ass sex... will get it constantly by HUGE snakes who will crawl up your ass and out your mouth.  Guess Christians aren't the only group which hates gays.

Shit, this women gets to drink cum for the simple crime of daring to menstruate near water and fire?!  Wait... is this a Bukkake video?  I think I've seen this one.

Damn... guess you better not earn your "red wings" here on Earth unless you're prepared to keep earning them as punishment.

Ah, at least the misers get what's coming to them!

 

Etc... etc.... etc...

 

Take my word for it... the Zoroastrian hell is worse than the Christian one.  Freezing cold torture with a mountain on your back... digging a grave with your tits... eating various forms of filth.  It's the real deal.

 

That said, it is believed by many scholars that the Jews adopted the heaven and hell ideology from their contact with Zoroastrianism... with the one exception that the Jews believed that God would allow some forms of evil to last forever and thus hell itself must last forever.

 

Doesn't this sound like Dante's Inferno?

 

And how they looked at gay, wealth etc, it only strenghtens my notion that Judaism+Christianity was built on this religion.

[Amanda]

Thanks Amanda.  Now I've got lots of angles to attack ya.   

 

 

Are you a lone pilgrim, or are there others?  Do you attend church?

 

 

Sorry, I'm just curious.  You're kinda an oddity.

 

Got a feeling you'll get along better with the heathens here than the christians, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Mythra... you are so wise. Yet, having said that... Jesus is the one I esteem to be like. He was a social revolutionary for all of us... and His efforts are still applicable today. His hidden truths have to sink to the core of everything that is of solid foundations for real peace. Jesus said He would take away peace so that we could have real peace. The first peace was a less than articualate way of that day talking about complacency. Complacency and peace are different... peace is better.

 

I don't know of too many others like me. Have you heard of Kingdom Principles? I came from a teacher that stripped me of everything I thought I knew, gave me two postulates to base my understandings from the original text, and challenged every idea I came up with, like you guys do... but I'm thankful there was only ONE of him. You'll never understand this, but you guys are the best church I've found.

[Vixentrox]

(Yo Yo)

Heaven is just the place I will stay 

 

(Fwee)

You didn't answer the question at all.

 

Fwee, I will translate Yo-Yo's christianese for you.  What he means is that he isnt' a Christian because of heaven or hell, but because he is in love with Jesus and can't wait to wear that white bride dress and get married to groom Jesus.  After that, it won't matter what heaven is like, because he is planning on spending eternity on his face, staring at Jesus' toes in holy reverence and fear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wonder if male souls get it up the ass from Jesus....they are his brides after all. Jesus got to be the most polygamus person that existed (if he ever existed at all of course).

[Amanda]

Hi Amanda!

I was thinking the same thing, that you sound rather new age when you talk about christ conscienceness and such.

I'm not picking on you here either, I can handle that a lot better than a fundimentalist, LOL!

In fact, you probably don't like fundies much either, huh?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi Panther... you're pretty much right on, although I'm not real familiar with New Age... but I do like their music! It's not that I don't like the religous right... it's that I think they stay with a mostly perpetuated popularly false interpretation at the expense of others. Perhaps too literal and not seeking the intent and purpose of the Book, hence "the letter of the law kills." I admire how passionately brave those seem to be, here, against much of their movement!

 

If you study Jesus, He was a social revolutionist, mainly targeting most of the religous right. He consistantly, publicly, verbally attacked many of the religous right, trashed their temple, till they finally killed Him to get rid of Him. He was very compassionate to everyone else. It seems much of the religous right today keeps the same MO and incorporating His teachings today in a twisted manner for continuing their own beliefs. I USE to think like them, to make His teachings fit my beliefs instead of making my beliefs fit His teachings. One way is growing, the other way one stays stagnant. The first is better.

 

Being on this site has made me evaluate who I am more. I have been labeled a heretic here by a couple of members, and at first it kind of scared me! Now I'm beginning to think they are right... and maybe Jesus and John the Baptist were heretics of their days too... so maybe it's nothing to fear but with which to find peace.

[Ouroboros]

Being on this site has made me evaluate who I am more. I have been labeled a heretic here by a couple of members, and at first it kind of scared me!    Now I'm beginning to think they are right... and maybe Jesus and John the Baptist were heretics of their days too... so maybe it's nothing to fear but with which to find peace.

 

Yes Jesus and John and Paul and gang, were all heretics of their time.

 

They broke with the traditional Jewish religion, and condemned the Pharisees and the other scribes.

 

That was why the Jews wanted him dead. He called himself God, which is blaspemy.

[Fweethawt]

Come on now...

 

Isn't anyone going to answer the question in the opening thread?

[been borg again]

Amanada,

Is this you? they use the word " Kingdom Principles" in their termonology

 

from..

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/l04.html

 

 

An Examination of Kingdom Theology - Part 1/3

- Sections -

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

 

Return to

Apologetics Index - This Section -

Introduction

Overview

Vulnerability of Pentecostalism

Kingdom Theology Defined

Latter Rain Movement

 

 

 

 

 

Kingdom Theology Defined

 

Within the "Kingdom Theology" camp are several movements whose teachings are remarkably similar over all, yet divergent on some points. These movements - though to a greater or lesser degree disavowing association with each other - are sufficiently homogenous in their eschatological and theological viewpoints to place them all under a common banner: what I refer to as "Kingdom Theology." These movements are built upon the same foundation: the neo-Pentecostalism of the mid-twentieth century. They draw from one another the support needed to develop their strategy for gaining preeminence among Christians. All zealously propagate their "new revelations" which allegedly are to prepare the Church for "the next move of God," bringing us closer to the Kingdom Age (the rule of God on earth).

 

The most prominent of these movements are:

 

Latter Rain

Identity

Manifest Sons of God

Restoration

Reconstruction Charismatic Renewal

Shepherding/Discipleship

Kingdom Message

Positive Confession

 

 

Throughout the course of this study we'll be examining these movements and their major proponents. But first it's important that I give a general outline of Kingdom Theology itself and its dynamic.

 

The Teachings

 

The basic premise of Kingdom Theology is that man lost dominion over the earth when Adam and Eve succumbed to Satan's temptation in the Garden of Eden. God "lost control" of the earth to Satan at that time, and has since been looking for a "covenant people" who will be His "extension," or "expression," in the earth and take dominion back from Satan. This is to be accomplished through certain "overcomers" who, by yielding themselves to the authority of God's apostles and prophets for the Kingdom Age, will take control of the kingdoms of this world. These kingdoms are defined as all social institutions, such as the "kingdom" of education, the "kingdom" of science, the "kingdom" of the arts, and so on.

 

Most especially there is the "kingdom" of politics or government. This naturally implies the concentration of military and police power in the hands of those in control during the Kingdom Age. They are referred to as the "many-membered man child," whom Kingdom Theology adherents believe will be the fulfillment of Revelation 12:1-5: "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars....And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron."

 

Those who hold to Kingdom Theology assume that the Church (some believe only a small group within the Church, called "overcomers"), under submission to the latter day apostles and prophets, is that man child, and that it has the responsibility to put down all rebellion and establish righteousness. This necessitates the utilization of supernatural power and the full implementation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. This theory is based upon the idea that all authority in heaven and on the earth has been given to Jesus. Since believers are indwelt by the same Holy Spirit that indwelt Jesus, we have all authority in heaven and on the earth; we have the power to believe for and speak into existence things that are not, and thus we can bring about the Kingdom Age. The many-membered man child must take control of the earth before Jesus can return.

 

Necessary to the Kingdom Age is "the Restoration of the Tabernacle of David," defined as the completion of perfection of the Bride of Christ - a Church without spot or wrinkle. During the Kingdom Age (or after all else is subdued during that time) Satan and all enemies of God will be put under the feet of the many-membered man child. This will be the fulfillment of I Corinthians 15:25-26: "For he (Christ) must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

 

The rationale that the many-membered man child will put God's enemies under 'its' feet is that Jesus is the head of Christ and the Church is the body of Christ. And where are the feet but in the body? Many in the Kingdom Theology movements insist that when this Scripture refers to Christ it is really referring to the Church who is the Body of Christ. Therefore it is necessary for them to establish within the minds of Christians the idea that, as the Body of Christ, we are Christ. In other words, we have His divine nature.

 

Notice that this idea, similar to that of mind science and other false religions, separates the anointing of "Christ" from Jesus and bestows it upon all who come into a place of certain knowledge and spiritual attainment. This is a heresy that is as old as the Church. It is rooted in the Greek school of philosophy known as Gnosticism.

 

No Rapture

 

Critical to hard-core Kingdom Theology is the denial of "the Rapture" - the teaching that the Church will one day be caught up to meet the Lord in the air so that we will be with Him in Heaven when God's wrath is poured out upon the earth. This event is explained away as a feeling of rapture or excitement when the Lord returns to receive the Kingdom from our hands. In other words, everyone will be "caught up" emotionally when He returns. This explanation ignores the fact that such an application of the term "caught up" is strictly an idiomatic expression peculiar to English, not Greek. "I was all 'caught up' in the movie" (or other excitement) is not the equivalent of 'harpazo' in I Thessalonians 4:17, II Corinthians 12:2-4, and Revelation 12:5, used to describe the catching up bodily into Heaven, and Acts 8:39 where Phillip is bodily "caught away" by the Spirit to another location.

 

Consequently, since there will be no bodily catching away - or "Rapture" - of the Church (some say not until the Church has taken dominion in the face of adversity), there will be no restoration of the nation of Israel. The proponents of Kingdom Theology are correct when they say that the Church is spiritual Israel, but they fail to acknowledge that God has promised to restore national Israel and deal with her during the coming seventieth week of Daniel.

 

All prophecies regarding future Israel - both in the Old and New Testaments - are made to apply to the Church. The restoration of the dry bones in Ezekiel 37:1-11 is said to be the Restoration of the Church out of Babylon (denominationalism) into perfect unity. All believers will possess the same mind, same thoughts, and same goals delineated by the apostles and prophets of the Kingdom Age through new revelations.

 

The Church Has Failed

 

Another eschatological viewpoint of Kingdom Theology is that the Great Tribulation is seen not as a time when anti-Christ will reign and war against God's people, but rather a time of tribulation for the world brought about by God's judgment through His people. Anti-Christ, in fact, is considered by some not to be a person, or even a system of government, but a spirit of rebellion against God's constituted authority - the coming of Jesus in the flesh of the apostles and prophets, according to their interpretation of I John 4:2 and II John 7.

 

Since there will be no "Rapture," and no Second Coming of Jesus until the Kingdom has been established by the Church under the direction of the apostles and prophets, most Kingdom Theology adherents are mid- or post-millennialists: Jesus will come back after the millennium has begun or after it has been completed. Some are amillennialists, believing He will never come back personally, or that He already came back to His own generation, leaving the Church to take dominion over the earth. Thus they see the Church as having failed in what they consider its commission to take dominion over the kingdoms of the earth.

 

The reason the Church has failed is because it has not understood what Jesus meant when He told His disciples that they would be witnesses of Him throughout the earth. To be a witness means to demonstrate the Kingdom on earth: to take dominion, bringing all things into obedience to Christ. In order to demonstrate the Kingdom, the Church must not only be united under the apostles and prophets, but must be prosperous, having taken control of all the material wealth of the earth. Since "The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein" (Psalm 24:1), the world is ours as joint heirs with Christ. This sounds good, but without Jesus here to establish the dominion, we are left at the mercy of men who, according to their thinking, will have "overcome" all faults and will be operating according to the perfect will of God. Since all enemies, including death, will be put under the feet of the "overcomers," it is therefore necessary that dominion include "immortalization" (or at least living in "divine health" as well as "divine prosperity").

 

The Cloud of Witnesses

 

To accomplish the great task of taking dominion over a rebellious world, the Church must have supernatural help not only from God, but from angels and from the "great cloud of witnesses" (the dead in Christ) who have preceded us. A unity between their spirits and our spirits will create a communications link by which revelations will be conveyed that will guide the Church in its mission. The apostles and prophets especially will have contact into the spirit realm through appearances of Jesus, angels, and departed saints. In fact, such contacts have already been reported in the Christian media.

 

Essentially then, Kingdom Theology sees the Second Coming of Jesus in two stages: first through the flesh of the believers (and in particular the flesh of today's apostles and prophets), and then in person to take over the Kingdom handed to Him by those who have been victorious (the "overcomers"). In some circles it is believed that the overcomers will have become immortal - they will have attained what is called "resurrection life."

 

Whether immortal or not, it is generally agreed in Kingdom Theology that the overcomers must purge the earth of all evil influences. "Evildoers" must be converted or they will be punished and/or "destroyed from off the face of the earth." "Evildoers" have been variously described as drug pushers, murderers, child molesters, thieves, prostitutes, and other such "scum" that Jesus died for. It will interest the reader to learn, however, that for many who teach Kingdom Theology, the term "evildoer" applies to anyone who refuses to submit to God's authority (the latter day apostles and prophets). Those who do submit will be sealed with the "mark of God" in their foreheads, and will escape the coming judgment.

 

Some Differences

 

As we deal with these teachings individually in successive chapters, keep in mind that some movements are more extreme than others, and each is somewhat unique in its approach to the basic tenets of Kingdom Theology. In fact, not everyone within each movement is necessarily in agreement with each other, let alone with those in the other movements. Still, each movement has teachings that are sufficiently aberrant as to warrant careful testing by the Word of God. Each in its own way has its part in propagating some or all of the elements of Kingdom Theology. Other teachings not detailed here are quite bizarre, and add to the overall occult flavor of Kingdom Theology. We'll be dealing with them as we progress.

 

It's important to understand that not everyone in the various movements mentioned believe all Kingdom Theology teachings. Many are innocently fraternizing with those whose doctrines would horrify them if they were aware of them. Yet while the adage "guilt by association" does not always hold true, a consistent pattern of fraternization and support are sufficient grounds to at least question whether one holds the views of those he supports and with whom he seeks unity.

 

Some Terminology

 

As in all fraternities, there is certain terminology peculiar to Kingdom Theology. Knowledge of that terminology can alert us to the possibility that we are hearing from an adherent to those teachings. A few occasions of word usage prove nothing, of course. But a pattern of usage and dependence upon terminology peculiar to Kingdom Theology is reason for concern and further investigation of a teacher's doctrines. Many will hide their true beliefs to all but those within their inner circle lest they be prematurely exposed to the Body of Christ at large. Once you become familiar with their terminology I urge you not to judge arbitrarily, but to seek further knowledge of the teacher's true beliefs (Acts 17:11). Meanwhile, be cautious until you do know what he or she believes. The following Kingdom terminology should be cause for concern even though much will be defended as "scriptural" by those who use them:

 

Dominion

Overcomer(s)

Word-Faith

Spoken Word

Five-fold ministry

Latter Rain

Tabernacle of David

Feast of Tabernacles

Many-membered man child

Manifestation of the Kingdom

Manifestation of the Sons of God

Ongoing Incarnation

Birthing in the Spirit

Get this into your spirit

Unity (of the Body)

Serpent's Seed

or Seed of the Serpent

Faith in faith

God's faith

God-like faith

Kingdom language

Kingdom principles

Christ principles

Elijah Company

Bride Company

The Christ

Ecclesias

 

 

 

I wish to reiterate that the use of some of these words - at least moderately - is not grounds for judging harshly the speaker or writer (see John 7:24). I stress this because I know I'll be accused of jumping to conclusions and lumping everyone together. I urge caution in accepting or rejecting anyone on the basis of their terminology alone. By the time you've read through this report, however, I'm certain you'll see why these terms are good indicators of the teacher's beliefs.

 

At the end of the final installment you'll find a sample questionnaire which you can use to test any teacher's position relative to Kingdom Theology. This may be used as a precaution against erroneously prejudging anyone - teacher or disciple. This said, we will examine now the roots and the effects of Kingdom Theology and its various movements.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Doesn't this sound like Dante's Inferno?

 

And how they looked at gay, wealth etc, it only strenghtens my notion that Judaism+Christianity was built on this religion.

 

Whoa. I never read anything Zoroastrian before. This is heavy shit. Yes, sounds like the book of Revelation as well as Dante - i.e. as in getting off on punishments.

 

Our political leadership these days wants its friends to store up lots of wealth and allows them some hanky-panky on the side. It takes money out of the hands of working people and tells millions they can't experience sex. Why don't the followers of these people wake up and see how their leaders belong in Zoroastrian hell?

[Amanda]

Amanada,

Is this you? they use the word " Kingdom Principles" in their termonology

 

from..

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/l04.html

An Examination of Kingdom Theology - Part 1/3

- Sections -

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Borg Again whoaaaa I don't know about all this! My teacher use to refer to kingdom principles to convey an adjunct to some of our previous assumptions (conclusions) so I kiddingly refer to my beliefs as that, Kingdom Principles! I hardly believe in any of this in the format it is presented. There may be a similarity here and there, but not many.. and I'll try to explain some of my beliefs...

 

I believe Adam was not 'A' man but a prototype of a man, like the crowmagnum man is not 'A' man, and probably Adam and the crowmagnum man are the same. Different roles became more clearly defined during this time, taking a side out of mankind... making complimentary roles... hence woman... helpmates for each other. Before the fruit of good and evil, reasoning, man operated to a greater degree out of instinct... perhaps a more direct source and connection to the supreme being? Satan is ONLY the lie, and God is the Truth. Satan is not a bad guy, and more importantly... he is NOT Lucifer. Eve's mere contemplation of not being as good as 'God' was partaking the fruit, reasoning, and tricked by the 'lie' that she was not already one with God, as man is in His likeness and image. Adam recognized this ability to reason in Eve, took it, used the fruit to perpetrate the first sin... condemnation... blaming God and someone else. Further Eve blamed the devil... and we have been doing the same thing since then... separating ourselves further by condemnation, further perpetuating the illusion of separateness, instead of being into the instinctual nature of oneness. This is good though, as it is the spark of civilization!

 

I think science, philosophies, and other resources help define what is already in the Bible and perhaps therefore.. through science the Bible presents itself as a testimony to a supreme being. I think each individual experience is important, valued, and cherished. Yes, I believe we ALL will eventually find oneness in the Truth again, only much richer.. in many, many ways... for having gone through this experience.

 

I can see many of you all now, or or or or or maybe even .

That's ok, I like you guys anyway!