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I'm Not With Them, I Must Be Against Them.


Kurari
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People are probably getting sick of hearing about Chris Benoit, so I'll create only a short recap for those who might not have heard: He was a professional wrestler with the WWE who over the course of last weekend, ended up killing his wife, 7 year old developmentally disabled son, and himself. This took about three days, and police are still investigating. People are baffled at the events because apperantly it was very out of character for Chris.

 

Anyway, my rant isn't really about that, it's about the reactions to it. I've gotten a couple of people leaping all over me for saying that I'm not passing judgement. For some reason, saying anything other than "He's evil and rotting in Hell!" gets me scrutinized and called all sorts of names and being told I'm naive. There is also the pervading assumption that I must condone what happened or that I delight in it. It's crazy.

 

I mean, Buddha on a Biscuit people, I wasn't there. I didn't know the guy personally, I wasn't a close friend, a wrestler, or even involved in doing forensics on the case. I was a fan of his and I'm really sad about what happened, but I'm not going to stand there and say "Oh poor guy, he didn't mean it/didn't do it!" or "People only kill out of evil, therefore, Chris Benoit was evil." Because what evidence I'm reading about that's been made public isn't pointing anywhere yet. I'm not slavishly devoted to him or willing to just disregard him because I DON'T KNOW. I just don't believe that it's so easy to pass off somebody due to "evil." Not all killers know what they are doing or have control over what they are doing. I don't believe Andrea Yates is evil, I think she's batshit insane and her actions in murdering her children were really horrible. I feel different about her than I feel for say, Jeffery Dahmer. From my standpoint, it looks like Benoit succumbed to some kind of mental illness and it snowballed from there. I can't really blame people who kill out of psychosis. I can't really call that "evil." Terrible, inexcusable, tragic, dangerous, frightening...definately, but not evil. It's not an excuse, it just makes me think Chris seemed to be a victim here too. I might change my mind later as more evidence shows up, but in the meantime, I just feel bad for what happened.

 

Man, do I get hounded for THAT. If I'm not blaming somebody or considering killing to always be an evil act, something is wrong with me. But I've seen some pretty crazy opinions so far, like "it's ok that he killed his wife, but killing his child is just wrong!"

 

:twitch:

 

Why is the wife's death more terrible than the child's death? Isn't it tragic they both died? Chris too, he didn't get out of this scott free either, even if it was at his hands.

 

This isn't just a Christian thing either, it seems to be a mindset of our culture. It's kind of bone chilling how adamant people are that this has to be judged NOW and it can't be changed. I mean, NOBODY understands what happened, but there is almost a rabid need to condemn because it can't stand otherwise. Saying "I don't know" or "Maybe I'm wrong" just isn't acceptable. Even when you are speaking only about yourself. People want so desperately for it to be a clear cut situation they're willing to ignore absence of fact in order to create it.

 

I think we cut our humanity and ability to deal with the real world away by trying so hard to catagorize it into good or evil. It's just too easy.

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Kurari, I'm suspending moral judgment too.

 

Imo, if people said "I don't know" when they don't know, there might not have to be a sanity-regaining website like Ex-C.

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Did you watch wrestling Monday? That night, Vince McMahon broke his character, and revealed the farce of the story that he died in a car fire, in order to show respect for Chris Benoit, then the very next night, I assume early conclusions had been reached, it was like business as usual. Ordinarily, the whole week would have been devoted to tributes, and it didn't make sense to me. I didn't learn that it was a murder-suicide till Friday, and I was shocked, but one does wonder if it weren't an... ambient cause that could be pointed to in this case, something that, had it not been present, would have prevented this altogether? Like you, I don't think he can be entirely to blame.

 

(I'm sayin' roid rage, okay?)

 

Anyhoo, as a fellow wrestling fan, this hurt a lot, and I suspect it will hurt the WWE more as time goes on. I've been thinking, and not just concerning this, but for some time now, about the terms right and wrong, moral and immoral, good and bad. I have concluded that these terms are so rarely apt to apply to a given situation, that maybe they should be thrown out altogether, in favor of words and phrases that are less subjective.

 

You're right, in that we can't know exactly what caused him to do what he did, or his motivation, and no matter what hypotheses we may have for it, his culpability, as with all such cases is an open question. Did stress and/or drug abuse or some other external something trigger a psychotic episode? Would that mitigate the circumstances? Yes and no; it depends on who you ask, right? I also withhold judgment, for the time being at least. One thing I hate is people who apply one standard to everything, and can't be shown that it doesn't always fit. I'd hate to end up like that.

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I'm not a wrestling fan and I didn't realize Chris Benoit was dead. However, I did hear something about his wife's death being reported on Wiki several hours before it was discovered, so I thought I'd look it up just now and share it with you all, in case you're not aware of it.

 

Speculation regarding Nancy Benoit's death was added to the Chris Benoit English Wikipedia article 14 hours before police discovered the bodies of Benoit and his family. This seemingly prescient addition was initially reported on Wikinews and later on FOXNews.com. The article originally read: “Chris Benoit was replaced by Johnny Nitro for the ECW World Championship match at Vengeance, as Benoit was not there due to personal issues.” The phrase "stemming from the death of his wife Nancy" was added at 12:01 a.m. EDT on June 25,[102][103] whereas the Fayette County police reportedly discovered the bodies of the Benoit family at 2:30 p.m. EDT (14 hours, 29 minutes later). The IP address of the editor was traced to Stamford, Connecticut, which is also the location of WWE headquarters.[104] After news of the early death notice reached mainstream media, the anonymous poster accessed Wikinews to explain his seemingly prescient comments as a "huge coincidence and nothing more."[105] Police have "seized computer equipment from the person responsible for the postings," and have called the confession an "unbelievable hindrance." It's also reported that "if the person had knowledge of the death before police discovered the body, he or she could face criminal charges." [106]

 

So let's see.... He kills his wife and son, then goes to WWE headquarters to report it on Wiki, then goes back home and kills himself?! Why not just log on from home and report it from there, since he's going to kill himself anyway? How realistic does that sound, really?

 

According to forensics, what was their estimated times of death?

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I believe it was reported the wife died sometime Friday night, the son sometime on Saturday and Chris hung himself sometime on Sunday. Also heard that Bibles were placed by the bodies of the wife and son.

 

I do concur that the media have been absolutely criminal in their reporting. Blaming it on "roid rage" without evidence. I heard Glenn Beck proclaim the little boy's disabilty on the father's steroid use. Let's see, Fragile X Sydrome, wouldn't the X gene have come from the mother. It has been disgusting.

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I think the "roid rage" thing is what irritates me most. They are SO desperate to talk about this one point because...there just isn't anything else to talk about. Mostly they keep talking about it not to focus on what part they played to one individual, but really try to create some sort of drug scandle with the WWE. It's really annoying.

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Mostly they keep talking about it not to focus on what part they played to one individual, but really try to create some sort of drug scandle with the WWE. It's really annoying.

I suspect that'll be what happens, actually. Considering that it won't be the first time Vince McMahon has had to deal with that issue. I don't think that there will be a great deal of fallout, but the WWE will have to deal with it for a long time, if it turns out that that was the most likely cause. I believe at some point, they did institute random tests, and some other things for that very reason, I suppose to cover themselves in case something were to happen.

 

I haven't watched much of the coverage of the investigation, haven't wanted to, so if I looked like I didn't fully understand what had been revealed, that's why. Sooner or later, WWE will have to address this publicly, unlike recently.

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Thanks for the info, texmex. I should've thought to read more of that Wiki page before asking the question, rather than after, as it gives a whole timeline that includes phone calls and text messages made over the weekend. After posting that, I also read that the guy who made that announcement on Wiki claimed he was basing it on rumor and speculation concerning Benoit's absence at matches he was scheduled for, and he claims it was only coincidental that it happened to be true. I suppose it could be, but it's still pretty strange.

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Being a huge wrestling fan as well, this certainly came as a shock. Without cable, all my news comes from online at the moment.

 

What drove Benoit to commit these actions will give us a better picture of his "evilness" or not. I do suspect roid rage may be a part of it, and Vince has been liberal with the juice in the past, but that's just my suspicion. Yet if it is, I wonder just how bad the fallout will be; now it's not like Barry Bonds or whomever, just some guy getting busted taking steroids, but deaths are involved. If it's found that Vince was letting Chris use the roids, Vince will share responsibility for the deaths - at least in the eyes of a court, I think.

 

That would certainly excuse Benoit from an "evil" label - he made bad choices, and was encouraged to do so, moreover. That's assuming it's because of 'roids and that Vince both knew about and approved it, too.

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The ambivalent, non-judgmental monkeys never captured the water hole. That's why we always end up getting pulled this way or that. That's why those who won't chose sides get labeled a traitor and must be eliminated for the sake of efficiency. It's human nature I guess.

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