Breaking The Chains Of Guilt Ridden Ascetic Religion

[Guest Eclips]

I have been ridding myself of fundamentalist dogmatic ideas on the whole for over 7 years now. I was once very involved in the evangelical church and struggle every day to take pleasure in the simple things. I enjoy looking at women (and then some) and I resent that I was unable to experience true sexuality in the best years of my adolesence on account of the church which denies pleasures. If only I could go back.

[R. S. Martin]

Life isn't over. Stop a few minutes, take stock of your situation, salvage what pleasures of life are left and live it up now. You know--as long as there is life...Just remember you might not want to throw out all ethics. Well, I guess you know that without me telling you. Welcome to the forums.

[Lycorth]

Welcome!

 

You can still retain an ethic when you dump Xianity. Many non-xians write much on the subject of ethics outside of Xianity - you might want to seek out their works. Hell, there aren't any ethics to be found in Xianity aside from prohibitons against murder and theft, as well as the Golden Rule, all of which can be found in earlier religions as well as post-Xian religions and philosophies.

 

Good to hear you're breaking out of the deathcult, and I wish you the best in it

[pandora]

I can relate. I've dealt with it by having a somewhat open marriage with my husband. It helps that he is also an ex-Christian. Are you married? I'm assuming that you have encountered a situation that is making you rethink what sexual ethics entails.

 

Every person is different and has to make decisions for themselves and I am not one to judge. There are very few sides to any story that I can't relate to, really.

 

In this case, I see it as a risk versus benefit equation as the Christian ideals of marriage don't exactly apply any more for the ex-Christian. I haven't yet decided if I think it is unethical for a deconverted spouse to have some fun on the side when the other is yet a Christian... I think this presents a special situation. On the one hand, one would want to be fair and honest with his or her spouse, but on the other hand, if it would devastate them because of their deluded state of mind, then perhaps what they don't know won't hurt them. Every person has a right to personal fulfillment and we do only have one life to live... I can't fault anyone who has kept an affair a secret because of this, even though it's not the ideal situation and I wouldn't want to be in Christian spouse's shoes. If my husband were still a Christian and the opportunity came along, I'm not sure what I would do... if I knew it would not affect my relationship with him in a negative way and I knew I could be discreet, I just might do it.

 

I guess I'm selfish. I'm not a good role model... don't listen to my ramblings.

[Spoomonkey]

I haven't yet decided if I think it is unethical for a deconverted spouse to have some fun on the side when the other is yet a Christian...

 

Pandora

 

As an ex-Christian and a swinger, I can say that most swingers bristle at the idea of cheating. And for good reason! To swing (which is decidely not for everyone) takes a unique amount of communication and honesty. Obviously, this is exactly the opposite of what cheating is. So - for the question of ethics outside of Christianity? Absolutely! And then some!

 

To the OP - missing sex in your teen years? You didn't miss much. It gets better as you go along anyway. You can pick up and go from here. Just remember - you give yourself permission to have sex - being an ex-whatever does not. It is a choice that you make for you. I say this because you should understand that no one else is responsible for your choices.

 

Also - religion or no - people are not simply sex objects. Choose to do what you want - but have respect for the people who are willing to share themselves with you.

 

Spoomonkey

[pandora]

I am of two minds on the issue... I guess the most important thing for me in general is not to judge others' choices. You never know what circumstances may have led to whatever situation they are in. I always have the problem of not being able to make up my mind on a lot of these grey ethical areas because I can see every side of the story, partly because I might do the same thing given specific circumstances, and partly because I really do think there might be an ethical loophole of sorts in some situations.

[ShackledNoMore]

Eclips,

 

I was a virgin 20 years longer than the typical person because of the damn cult, and a part of me shares your resentment.

 

Keep in mind, though, that it is our present we control and that we can always start to direct our future from where we are now. If you have dropped the damaging lies of fundamentalist dogma, started using your mind, embracing life and sexuality (or are working on embracing sexuality) then there is cause to celebrate. You sound like your are in your mid 20s at latest. You have a sizable window of prime sexuality that remains. Try to embrace that rather then dwelling so much over lost time.

[mick]

I can relate. I've dealt with it by having a somewhat open marriage with my husband. It helps that he is also an ex-Christian. Are you married? I'm assuming that you have encountered a situation that is making you rethink what sexual ethics entails.

 

Every person is different and has to make decisions for themselves and I am not one to judge. There are very few sides to any story that I can't relate to, really.

 

In this case, I see it as a risk versus benefit equation as the Christian ideals of marriage don't exactly apply any more for the ex-Christian. I haven't yet decided if I think it is unethical for a deconverted spouse to have some fun on the side when the other is yet a Christian... I think this presents a special situation. On the one hand, one would want to be fair and honest with his or her spouse, but on the other hand, if it would devastate them because of their deluded state of mind, then perhaps what they don't know won't hurt them. Every person has a right to personal fulfillment and we do only have one life to live... I can't fault anyone who has kept an affair a secret because of this, even though it's not the ideal situation and I wouldn't want to be in Christian spouse's shoes. If my husband were still a Christian and the opportunity came along, I'm not sure what I would do... if I knew it would not affect my relationship with him in a negative way and I knew I could be discreet, I just might do it.

 

I guess I'm selfish. I'm not a good role model... don't listen to my ramblings.

 

I actually have read recently some scientific materials on why "altruism" and morals are actually a product of evolution. Even the basic facts that we do not burn each other to death for stupid things any more, etc, are the result of the ultimate advancement of goodness. The same materials talked about faithfulness in relationships as ultimately being good for this species (Humanity). And that the most successful groups and societies are the ones who sacrifice things for the greater good. Sex with multiple partners is obviously a strong desire for human beings, however it does have negative ramifications for humanity. (Spread of disease is an obvious one) I think, as an ex-Christian, that I want my marriage to succeed more than I ever did. And I consider suceeding to include faithfulness. I hope this does not come across as judgemental, but I see no real purpose in a sexually open marriage . (And I'm not saying that freedom to have sex with anyone willing is not tempting. The exact opposite is true. I'm saying that human success has always been based on sacrifice. If I can find the materials and post them I will.

[pandora]

I don't really want to get into the reasons for and against an open marriage, but let me just say it has been beneficial for both my husband and I- it's brought us closer together, helped our sex life, and generally helped me to become more self-actualized. He hasn't acted on our agreement and I don't think he ever will unless a special opportunity arises. I'm less picky, and he's okay with that.

 

I'm not saying it's for everyone. We're all wired differently emotionally and sexually.

[Spoomonkey]

And I consider suceeding (sic) to include faithfulness.

 

I consider success of a marriage to be based simply on two people, loving each other completely, unconditionally, honestly - and, as partners in crime, enjoying the life they have together however they see fit.

 

Spoomonkey

 

PS - Faithfulness, defined as sexual monogamy, is rather one-dimensional, don't you think?

[pandora]

And I consider suceeding (sic) to include faithfulness.

 

I consider success of a marriage to be based simply on two people, loving each other completely, unconditionally, honestly - and, as partners in crime, enjoying the life they have together however they see fit.

 

Spoomonkey

 

PS - Faithfulness, defined as sexual monogamy, is rather one-dimensional, don't you think?

 

It's about loving the other and respecting the other so much that you want whatever makes them happy, even if it means dealing with your own insecurities and issues. Not everyone can do that, and that's cool. We are vowed partners for life. But that does not mean that we own each other's physical bodies and emotional desires. We are not each other's property.

[pandora]

I haven't yet decided if I think it is unethical for a deconverted spouse to have some fun on the side when the other is yet a Christian...

 

 

 

As an ex-Christian and a swinger, I can say that most swingers bristle at the idea of cheating. And for good reason! To swing (which is decidely not for everyone) takes a unique amount of communication and honesty. Obviously, this is exactly the opposite of what cheating is. So - for the question of ethics outside of Christianity? Absolutely! And then some!

 

 

 

 

In all reality, if I were in that situation, I'd probably chicken out before anything major happened. I'm too brutally honest that way and I wouldn't be able to follow through if my spouse were still in the dark. If him knowing merely knowing put him in the looney bin, I might react differently... but he cares for me unconditionally and truly wants to see me happy, so it wouldn't devastate him.

 

But on the other hand, if someone I want to have a relationship with isn't completely honest with their spouse, this is where I'm fuzzy. Who am I to demand that of them when there very well may be a defensible reason for it? I don't know... I just think we don't give each other enough freedom to be ourselves or give each other enough credit (the benefit of the doubt) in personal grey areas like this.

[Luke Wolf]

I know where your comming from.

I too missed missed out on alot of things during my ealy and into mid teen years because of that cult. Hell, I never even looked at women until about a year after I left xtianity to fully deprogram myself, which I am still doing. Myself, I was 20 when I lost my virginity.

After fully deprograming myself, the world is much different now. I have become a metal head, pot head, I swear alot, I glorify Satans name with my fellow metal heads, and many other things.

I have also learned that you can be straight, and appreciate a good looking guy at the same time. I also learned you can't blame Satan for every bad thing that happens, or for any "sins" you might do.

 

You have taken a large step though. Don't rush things. Take time to sample as much of life as you can, and decide for yourself what you like, and who you really are. As for past regrets, they are in the past, nothing can change that, so don't worry.

[Spoomonkey]

But on the other hand, if someone I want to have a relationship with isn't completely honest with their spouse, this is where I'm fuzzy.

 

Are you saying that you'd be in a gray area if they wanted a relationship with you? I am not sure that I am following...

 

I am not going to judge a person to do what they want, but I have very few gray areas where someone is being hurt by the actions of another. To me "harm none" is a pretty simple approach to just about anything you do. If a person is hurting a spouse and children for a piece of ass - I don't see a whole lot of "fuzzy" with that...

 

Spoomonkey