Jump to content

Concerning Free Will


Guest Eylisha
 Share

Recommended Posts

Guest Eylisha

Something that has been bothering me since I became an ex christian is the fact that I don't believe I had a choice in believing or not. I simply feel I can no longer believe. On exploring this I have come to the conclusion that believing something is not a matter of free will. For example as an adult, knowing what I know, I can simply not believe in Santa Claus whether I would like to or not. This is also how I feel about God.

 

Coming to this conclusion I am more convinced then ever that christianity is a false belief because you can't even practice free will over whether you accept salvation or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not everyone ticks the same way. I have no choice about what I believe when I have evidence on a given question.

There are those that are brainwashed pretty early that find it really easy to believe just about anything.

 

Have you heard of the theory that around 40% of the population are "true believers" not in a religious sence but a political sense. Hence, those in power only have to convince 11% of the population, or 11/60 of the others. So we are held hostage by the establishment with help of ignoramouses. It does make a rather compelling case for wholesale slaughter of the believers, OOPS did I say THAT.

 

So for some people their experience is not that its difficult to believe but on the contrary not believing is a real problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's true, you really don't have a choice. Belief comes from lack of knowledge and knowledge comes from information. You are not in total control of what information you get. You don't know what you don't know, and you will base your belief on what you know. That's why when you start to get information and knowledge about things that is destroying the basis of faith, you will start losing your faith. Have you ever wondered why it is so "dangerous" to have books that criticize someones religion, and some churches have book burnings to get rid of books that would reveal the truth? Control the information and you control knowledge, and you control the belief.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Jiyuu
Something that has been bothering me since I became an ex christian is the fact that I don't believe I had a choice in believing or not. I simply feel I can no longer believe. On exploring this I have come to the conclusion that believing something is not a matter of free will. For example as an adult, knowing what I know, I can simply not believe in Santa Claus whether I would like to or not. This is also how I feel about God.

 

Coming to this conclusion I am more convinced then ever that christianity is a false belief because you can't even practice free will over whether you accept salvation or not.

 

 

You couldn't be more correct. You can officially stop being bothered by it. :grin: You cannot tell someone that they have free will to choose something and then punish them if they don't choose it. It just doesn't work that way. Besides, one can't "choose" to believe something. You either do or you don't.

 

The real feeling of freedom we get comes from finally accepting what we know we truly believe. That is free will, and it feels great.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Something that has been bothering me since I became an ex christian is the fact that I don't believe I had a choice in believing or not. I simply feel I can no longer believe. On exploring this I have come to the conclusion that believing something is not a matter of free will. For example as an adult, knowing what I know, I can simply not believe in Santa Claus whether I would like to or not. This is also how I feel about God.

 

Coming to this conclusion I am more convinced then ever that christianity is a false belief because you can't even practice free will over whether you accept salvation or not.

 

Interesting topic this free will concept. Actually even as an atheist I think free will might just be an illusion for every human being. Believer as well as non-believer. And for the life of me it just boggles my mind when I hear Christians saying some of the most rediculous and absurd things that they believe God has given them free will. Their God is all-knowing. So how can they of all people think they have free will?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

'Eylisha'

Coming to this conclusion I am more convinced then ever that christianity is a false belief because you can't even practice free will over whether you accept salvation or not.

 

The "free" will claim is popular among believers but it's a counterfeit product.

Christian salvation is based on a ultimatum form of choice, which isn't free in any honest sense of that word.

The Bible itself undermines the claim of free will in various scriptures.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

You are so right. Most Christians were baptized as a child and brainwashed from birth, or at least a very young, vulnerable age. Most of them were never given a choice at all. Han has it right that a child has no control over the information they get from parents, at least not until they are school age, and even then information is usually tightly controlled until they hit their teenage years. By then they are well indoctrinated, and only those who dare to question and seek out information, and/or have some life-changing experience that makes them question their beliefs, deconvert. Those who wrote the Bible knew what they were doing in terms of keeping the cult going.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is so true

 

I have been exposed to the darkest debts of the Christian Bible by accident one day when I was just so angry at God, from finding that website even on accident. I was exposed to the verses I never even dreamed of. From then I questioned God, slowly left the fold but is that really free will? Well yes it is because God does not exisist so therefore it was on my own freewill. But the problem with Christian philophy God gave me freewill and therefore I am what I am today but God also was suppose to know my choice. So therefore ( Thinking like a Christian on this last statement) God wanted me to become an atheist and he simply does not give a damn at all.

 

Now one more thing about this, knowing the knowlege I know it basically is impossible for me to go back. Every time I hear a Christian complaint about our society, go to a church service it makes me angry and pissed. I have chosen my path and things have changed but there really is no way I can turn back. That is like me trying to believe in Santa/Easter Bunny.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

If you study neuroscience and physics and chemistry and biology, but, esp, the first two, and not even in a very deep way, though it helps, freewill of any sort disappears completely. You are the atoms you're made of, careening around in the careenium (cranium) as Hofstadter might say. Freewill is simply not a coherent concept, despite what Dennett may say. If you look at it hard enough, it disappears completely, to be replaced by determinism, or, determinism spiced with pure randomness. Does mere unpredictability equal freewill? Not as most people posit free will. But this is the hole down which free will disappears on close examination.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you study neuroscience and physics and chemistry and biology, but, esp, the first two, and not even in a very deep way, though it helps, freewill of any sort disappears completely. You are the atoms you're made of, careening around in the careenium (cranium) as Hofstadter might say. Freewill is simply not a coherent concept, despite what Dennett may say. If you look at it hard enough, it disappears completely, to be replaced by determinism, or, determinism spiced with pure randomness. Does mere unpredictability equal freewill? Not as most people posit free will. But this is the hole down which free will disappears on close examination.

 

This is interesting stuff.

 

I think those sort of definitions of free will are missing the point.

 

Free will is not about whether you behave differently. It is about whether you are able to behave different *if you choose to*.

 

I've eaten the same cereal every morning (well, every morning I was at home and ate cereal) for the last year, and the chance that I will choose a different one tommorrow is miniscule. But, if I decide that I want to try to something different, I can.

 

It may be that the triggers that might cause me to choose that are predetermined.

 

Strangely, I think I have the most free will about the more mundane choices that I make. I don't have free will around whether I think a war is justified, or whether gay marriage should be alllowed, because those sorts of opinions are innate in who I am.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.