quicksand Posted July 8, 2007 Posted July 8, 2007 By all accounts I should be half asleep right now, but after seeing this video at the homepage of American Vision (Christian Reconstructionalist) I just have to vent. They state "...this new commercial will reveal the shocking truth to viewers." Watch it. I don't need to tell you what's wrong with it and how Dawkins is pulled out of context and how poorly employed is the fallacy of hasty generalization used. But the huge irony here is that these dominionist theocrats, these pious Christians who never lie (unless they are smearing atheists and rewritting the civil history of the United States to exonerate themselves of their barbarities) believe in OT laws of punishment! They state quite cleary that their goal is to "Equipping and Empowering Christians to Restore America's Biblical Foundation." Meaning these assholes are willfully lying about the past. This country would not have freedom of religion if Christians at the founding of this country so overwhelming endorsed Jefferson and Adams division of state to religion and the fact that no office holder has to declare that their faith is indeed the Christian faith. Willfully ignorant assholes. Their Vision statement goes on to say "...drawing all nations to the Lord Jesus Christ and teaching them to subdue the earth for the advancement of His Kingdom." Of course, that "Kingdom" is how they interpert the Bible and of course - once again, God agrees with everything they believe. Ugh, I will write more once I get some coffee in me as there is so much wrong with this video. Oh and I do intend on confronting them. And you should too. Email and correct them. Rant off. More coffee.
quicksand Posted July 8, 2007 Author Posted July 8, 2007 Cmon...are you suprised? It is a sign they are really desperate. I think it is a good thing that they are going to the extent they are. It shows they have no ground to stand on and it is the last act of a desperate enemy. Yes Burn, however, if one doesn't pushback, then anyone, even a war hero, can be branded a wuss with an effective swift-boating.
quicksand Posted July 8, 2007 Author Posted July 8, 2007 christ... another thing that bothers me about this pile of dung is the tone of the vox. What a condensending-sounding bitch (she could just be hired talent after all) as if Harris is some preschooler that isn't studying neuroscience!
♦ nivek ♦ Posted July 8, 2007 Posted July 8, 2007 quickster... Difference between the TaliBan and TaliBorn? Method in which they are called to do physical battle. The assclowns at the website, Reconstructionists, Rushdoonyists, are fairly well known to push a physical answer to "sabbin dem hebbins.." If there is one particular group of half well funded, decently educated, well armed xtian sectarians to be bothered watching, the Rushies are... The tone of their commercial is not to piss you off, atheEEEEist, but to entice with calm words those undecided, trying to focus them into action they might not be willing to do otherwise. Propaganda at its best, agitation to action at worst. kFL
Llwellyn Posted July 8, 2007 Posted July 8, 2007 I like this video and support its dissemination. The video obviously lacks any kind of foundation in fact or logic and simply presents paranoid scare tactics. Anyone with any ability to think will realize that Dawkins' words are taken out of context. Those Christians who are predisposed to misunderstand will nevertheless realize at some level that they are being unfair and prejudicial. So, in the end, a video like this can only hurt Christianity, so I fully support it! It demonstrates that Christianity stands on nothing but bluff and bluster.
Grandpa Harley Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Anyone with any ability to think will realize that Dawkins' words are taken out of context. and there, my dear, is the rub. Presupposing that someone can or is willing to think... The history of the human race is defined by people not thinking... As old Uncle Niccolo pointed out "The innovator is without friends. He has strong opposition from those who benefited under the old [ways] and lukewarm support from those who would benefit under the new."
Kirangel Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 I knew there was something really wrong with atheists! Everyone should watch that brilliant commercial because then you can learn the truth about atheists and what they are doing to this world. More people should listen to Sam and Richard so we can have our own reign of terror. Thinking leads to evil and killing. Blah, thanks for the video quicksand. I hope I didn't lose too many brain cells watching that. I guess this will be a Beethoven night. In all seriousness, that video was beyond ridiculous, they could have at least tried a little tiny bit to make something that could be worked with. I really hope that what ever disease they have that made them produce such a ridiculous film, is not something that can be caught by watching it.
dr_funkenstein Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 I knew there was something really wrong with atheists! Everyone should watch that brilliant commercial because then you can learn the truth about atheists and what they are doing to this world. More people should listen to Sam and Richard so we can have our own reign of terror. Thinking leads to evil and killing. Blah, thanks for the video quicksand. I hope I didn't lose too many brain cells watching that. I guess this will be a Beethoven night. In all seriousness, that video was beyond ridiculous, they could have at least tried a little tiny bit to make something that could be worked with. I really hope that what ever disease they have that made them produce such a ridiculous film, is not something that can be caught by watching it. I've got a feeling that this their way of hitting back at "The God Who Wasn't There" trailer. It mentions how right-wing fundies want to kill homosexuals, etc. I think many xians might see that and take offense that they're being lumped in with the nutters and so they're doing the same to atheists. EDIT I can't believe I misspelt "atheists"...
Kirangel Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 Yeah maybe. Christians have every right to be offended by being lumped together into a category with the more crazy members of their faith. To give it some credit the video did make me laugh at first, but it was more of a 'this is pathetic, beam me up Scotty there's no intelligent life down here' sort of laugh.
LosingMyReligion Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 I like this video and support its dissemination. The video obviously lacks any kind of foundation in fact or logic and simply presents paranoid scare tactics. Anyone with any ability to think will realize that Dawkins' words are taken out of context. Those Christians who are predisposed to misunderstand will nevertheless realize at some level that they are being unfair and prejudicial. So, in the end, a video like this can only hurt Christianity, so I fully support it! It demonstrates that Christianity stands on nothing but bluff and bluster. Wait a second. Christians can think? hahahaha... Anyway, the video just proves that the Dawkins and Harris' of the world are making a dent. Christianity is losing some ground, now moreso than ever... I was watching, my chance, a christian minister on the Trinity Bullshit Network...Longstory short his entire sermon consisted of telling the congregation that The Bible is the true word of God. He said that phrase ATLEAST ten times in under two minutes. I realize that is how you go about indoctrinating a gullible flock of sheep.
Mman2000 Posted July 9, 2007 Posted July 9, 2007 What a load of undiluted bullshit. That whole damn thing depended on the guilt by association fallacy and the nonsense claim that people can't get their morals without the wholly babble. Oh yeah, someone might want to tell the good christians who made this to look at Matthew 5:22. "...whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
Reka Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 Wow, that is well... bullshit. Talk about over generalization and just being hateful while spreading ignorance and intolerance. I wish I could say that I am surprised, I really wish I could. However, using scare tactics, lies, and making wide generalizations is something I've come to expect from some of the more outspoke religious groups. The only thing this video will do is help solidify the beliefs in people who already believe that atheists are evil. It's not going to convince anyone especially not fence sitters whom they are trying to reach in this video, I would assume. The voice is really condescending though and the satire is a swing and a miss.
Lightbearer Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 Guys, guys, guys... you missed the point of this video. They are telling us Christians don't believe in Reason, rationality or reality. This explains everything! Edit: Oh and I love how they show Nazis and the Southern during the Civil Rights movements. Alot of Christians endorsed and praised Nazism when it was around and a lot of Christians spoke out against the Civil Rights movements, like Jerry Falwell.
Reka Posted July 10, 2007 Posted July 10, 2007 They are telling us Christians don't believe in Reason, rationality or reality. This explains everything! Oh, damn, that went right over my head. It makes so much more sense now. Correct me is I am wrong, but wasn't Maximilien Robespierre (if I heard correctly) that they mentioned a deist and the "leader" of the "Cult of the Supreme Being?" They killed people for not believing in it, right? He even hated a group called Hébertist for their "atheism and bloodthirstiness."
quicksand Posted July 11, 2007 Author Posted July 11, 2007 Correct me is I am wrong, but wasn't Maximilien Robespierre (if I heard correctly) that they mentioned a deist and the "leader" of the "Cult of the Supreme Being?" They killed people for not believing in it, right? He even hated a group called Hébertist for their "atheism and bloodthirstiness." Reka, your dead nuts correct about that. All it takes is a 1 second google for a Wikipedia entry to comment on that. Robespierre replaced the dogmas and the power of the Church with his own dogma and own Church that was as equally as devastating as the conflation of Church and State before it. The Herbertist, atheists that argued against this "backslide to theism" were deported and persecuated. The real irony here is not only did Robespierre didn't learn from the past, but neither does American Vision.
R. S. Martin Posted July 11, 2007 Posted July 11, 2007 The following ad is copied from the website linked above; emphasis added. The ad is making a point about "atheists" that I think is invalid. See my comment below. Back in Print after 140 years & The ACLU's worst nightmare... The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States I was debating an ACLU attorney at Christmas on an NPR station. I pulled out a Xerox copy of The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States and said to her: "Until you answer this book, the ACLU can't make a case against America's Christian founding." She was shocked when she saw it. She asked where I had gotten it. The only thing that gave her relief was the fact that the book was not in print. But now it is. I guess this person thinks the ACLU member was disturbed to meet up with God. I don't think so. More likely the ACLU person was disturbed to see a socially dangerous book on the market. There is nothing more dangerous to human civilization that religious fanatics. The part I made red is, in the Christian's mind, supposed to be a threat straight from "the mind of God". The Christian thinks God is saying: I exist. You challenge my existence at your own peril. That gives the Christian a feeling of gleeful vengeance and victory over the "godless" ACLU. I put godless in quotes because if I have my facts straight, there are Christians on the ACLU. Perhaps not the kind of Christians these website owners would accept as "brothers and sisters in the Lord," but professing Christians all the same. If a person identifies as Christian, I say they are Christian. I think there is a difference between people who profess to believe in God and people who do not profess belief in the supernatural. I think the attitude toward life, humanity, and the world itself is different. It is an worldview the fanatic Christian cannot even imagine. What the fundy Christian imagines is that everyone who does not believe in his/her god is scared stiff of god and death. NOT SO!
quicksand Posted July 11, 2007 Author Posted July 11, 2007 I was debating an ACLU attorney at Christmas on an NPR station. I pulled out a Xerox copy of The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States and said to her: "Until you answer this book, the ACLU can't make a case against America's Christian founding." Bullshit. I've been reading Susan Jacobs book, Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism. She gives many really interesting and forgotten details about the founding of the United States and its respect to religious freedom. The most fascinating, of which, is that Christians (the liberal of them) had endorsed a seperation of church and state and were the ones to rally against right-wing conservatism that had called for religious-oaths (to Christianity) for public offices and that the state must pay sufferage to the Churches something that which the diest Jefferson and the Christian Adams were dead-set against. Todays neo-Christian theocrats can claim all they want how America was founded on Christianity, and spin the 1st amendment all they want, they, however, can not explain away Article VI: "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." This was unheard of before in the history of government. Right-wing theocrats of the day (most pro-slavery) warned of the impending doom from God's hand because of this. (Little has seemed to change.) We are under no obligation to support Christianity (even though by executive fiat we fund them through faith-based funnelling of taxes and which these churches still get a pass on taxes) through the State, but we are under every obligation to let them worship as they see fit and to establish whatever factions and whatever doctrines as required by their faith without State interference. But of course, like Robespierre, American Vision and its ilk would mandate that all Christians and citizen's alike, through the State, uphold all the same tenants and criminalize any heresy for their factional interpretation and cherry picking of the bible, punishing on behalf of god. And these idiots don't see it.
quicksand Posted July 11, 2007 Author Posted July 11, 2007 I wrote them a quick note: Article VI of the US Constitution states "...no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States," but you state that "This future America will be a “city on a hill” drawing all nations to the Lord Jesus Christ and teaching them to subdue the earth for the advancement of His Kingdom." Do you intended to change the Constitution and turn your back on not only Jefferson's and Adam's vision of a country that established State indifference to religious worship of its citizens (Amendment #1) in order to subdue (as you state) to your internecine practice of Christianity? This is obviously the case because, as you put it, you must subdue, that is take action to see this through. Therefore, what Biblical laws will be explicitly enforced? What rival Christian sects become illegal? And of non-believers? The homosexual? The divorced? You see, I believe the founders meant well, however, they were way too liberal and I agree with all of the dissenters in that period. Adams was a liberal and Jefferson - well, he was a heretic like that disgusting Thomas Paine and his so called "The Age of Reason." (And we saw in your video calling out Dawkins and Harris what athiest and diests -like Robespierre, really mean by the word "reason". Only us, the appointed can use reason.) I await your answers with hope. Best regards, Matthew
quicksand Posted July 11, 2007 Author Posted July 11, 2007 Digging through American Vision's site, I found this little wonder-gem of a statement: Despite what you may hear from the media and public school textbooks, America was founded as a Christian nation. In 1620, long before the United States won its independence from England, the Pilgrims came to America's shores with this mission statement,“[W]e all came to these parts of America, with one and the same end and aim, namely, to advance the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ.” – New England Confederation of 1643 Really? Well what just is the New England Confederation of 1643? In short the New England Confederation of 1643 is was a political and military alliance of the British colonies. I guess these prodigies at American Vision must believe that we are still a colony of England? (Oh and the Confederation dissolved in 1654. I wonder how they explain that one away?)
disEnchanted Posted July 12, 2007 Posted July 12, 2007 I'm glad that the christians are becoming more aware of the writings of Harris and Dawkins. Finally they must be making an impact on them. Now I can mention either of the two writers to my christian co-workers and maybe, just maybe I won't get a blank stare like I usually do.
Azure Knight Posted July 12, 2007 Posted July 12, 2007 Do any of you mind if I quote some of your posts, combine it into to one email, and send it to them? Several ones on the first page look really good combined.
quicksand Posted July 13, 2007 Author Posted July 13, 2007 Do any of you mind if I quote some of your posts, combine it into to one email, and send it to them? Several ones on the first page look really good combined. Since I wrote a great deal on this issue... whose quotes do you want to use? Personally, I have no problem as long as the context remains.
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