What's The Difference?

[Guest Whatchamacallit]

I found this site by reading glp and typing in why atheists attack christianity so hard. But anyways, I read something posted by a person in another thread:

 

"I am done with that. However, I feel compelled to undermine a Christians faith. I feel strongly that we are all better off without faith. I wish to be effective and so I try my level best not to be angry or condescending. I am not perfect and so, at times, I may fail in that, but I do not see it happening very often."

 

My point being, what is the difference between "the fundies" that are all destroying society with their awful Evangelism (because we all know that christianity is the worst thing in the world compared to all the raping, killing, drug use and selling out there) and athesist costantly doing the same thing. I always hear that one of the big problems atheists have with christianity is that the "fundies" push their dogma religion on them and they don't wanna hear it. Umm don't atheists do the same thing. I really wish we could say, you believe in your crap and I'll believe in mine, but on the serious tip, I'm sick and tired of atheists pushing their dogma on society. I'm tired of them feeling oh so enlightened, and holier than thou for having free thought and being so logically superior to christians which is what you claim christians to do. You don't believe in God, fine don't push it upon me. Keep that mess to yourself. So what's the difference?? Is it because you KNOW you're right about not having faith and not beleiving in God?? The whole atheists umm err, following, is based on observational evidence yet you have no observational evidence that there is no God. You have no observational evidence that the universe was created with the big bang...WTF??

[Ramen666]

Welcome to the board....( If you are not a troll or hit and run Christian)

 

Anyway there is a big difference that I have noticed in my life than when I was a Christian and became an atheist. I look at idea,philophy,religion,politicall agenda, whatever it may be and look at the issue at all around. For example I was always told that Catholics are going to hell because they worship saints. I for one am listening to my pastor who supposbly is sent by God so I trusted that for a while. Now as an atheist I feel free to examine other people's belifs rather than my own in common terms I don't deal in absoultes such as Christians do. I do not feel the need to hate people because of their sexual orentation, belif or even their race. Christians do hate these people and filled with it.

 

Now what is the difference?

 

There is fundamentalism everyone on any issue and it can be considered bad in many ways. I for one am not forcing people to become atheist but I do point out reasonable things in there arguments that are flawed?

 

Now I think you are Christian using sarcasim in your post but here is a question for you?

 

What religious group is the majority in the USA?

What group of people want to remove the rights of people because of their sexual orentation?

What group of people want people to follow their ideas and resort to wanting a book banned?

What group sends evanglics out to preach?

 

What group is the minority? Atheism

What group is hated for not believing in God? Atheist's

 

Now when an atheist tries to put out his ideas/logic who attacks it and wants them to be silent? THE FUCKING CHRISTIAN!!!!

 

Now here is the flaw I have never, EVER when I was a Christian have an atheist preach to me ever. I never had an atheist try to influence the laws and ideas based on his ideas. For that matter I have never had any other group evaglicize to me other than CHRISTIANS?

[Ramen666]

Also, from what you say it is almost like you want us silent, not to say how we feel....(nice isn't it opposing ideas that you don't want to hear)

 

I will take any view you are on but I am getting the under the post you want us just to shut-up like every other Christian out there wants us to. Christianity deserves that hate that it gets. People have been abused by the church financially and emotionally and it all for control. You are a new member, why don't you particpate in a disscussion before making claims you arn't aware of. I suggest reading the testimonies of former Christians it is more of a reality of what is happening.

[Guest Whatchamacallit]

Welcome to the board....( If you are not a troll or hit and run Christian)

 

Anyway there is a big difference that I have noticed in my life than when I was a Christian and became an atheist. I look at idea,philophy,religion,politicall agenda, whatever it may be and look at the issue at all around. For example I was always told that Catholics are going to hell because they worship saints. I for one am listening to my pastor who supposbly is sent by God so I trusted that for a while. Now as an atheist I feel free to examine other people's belifs rather than my own in common terms I don't deal in absoultes such as Christians do. I do not feel the need to hate people because of their sexual orentation, belif or even their race. Christians do hate these people and filled with it.

 

Now what is the difference?

 

There is fundamentalism everyone on any issue and it can be considered bad in many ways. I for one am not forcing people to become atheist but I do point out reasonable things in there arguments that are flawed?

 

Now I think you are Christian using sarcasim in your post but here is a question for you?

 

What religious group is the majority in the USA?

What group of people want to remove the rights of people because of their sexual orentation?

What group of people want people to follow their ideas and resort to wanting a book banned?

What group sends evanglics out to preach?

 

What group is the minority? Atheism

What group is hated for not believing in God? Atheist's

 

Now when an atheist tries to put out his ideas/logic who attacks it and wants them to be silent? THE FUCKING CHRISTIAN!!!!

 

Now here is the flaw I have never, EVER when I was a Christian have an atheist preach to me ever. I never had an atheist try to influence the laws and ideas based on his ideas. For that matter I have never had any other group evaglicize to me other than CHRISTIANS?

 

Ok in repsonse to your four questions, tell me what is so horribly wrong with evangelicals going out and sharing what they believe. It's something we feel that is good and we would like to share it. Usually I get an answer like it brainwashes people and the like. Now I have questions for you since a lot of atheists seem tot hink that christinaity is bad to socitey:

 

There are tons of people whose lives have been destroyed by porn. Marriages failing, rapists, child molestors. Why aren't you focusing any energy to banning porn? Usually if a christian group is trying to ban porn or whatever it's usually brought with "Let people do what they want". Yet when it comes to christianity, which is also having "ill efffects on society", it's not let people do what they want. Contradictions? There are plenty of things more destructive than what you claim christianity does, so why arent you "saving humanity", and trying to advance humanity (which is what most do) by rallying to ban porn or drugs. Or even trying to speak out against some of the music that's being catered to our youth. Why don't you have a problem with gays coming to schools and preaching or rallying in the streets, but you have a problem when a Christian does?

 

What group also wants people to follow and abandon it's faith? Atheists

 

Now as for the preaching, I hear it all the time from atheists. Maybe not personally, but if I go to GLP, I always see threads posted about why I shouldn't believe in God. Sounds like preaching to me. I turn on the news, and up, the AlC or whatever their name is, is trying to impose on my right to pray by arresting christians for praying at a gay rally.

[Guest Whatchamacallit]

Also, from what you say it is almost like you want us silent, not to say how we feel....(nice isn't it opposing ideas that you don't want to hear)

 

I will take any view you are on but I am getting the under the post you want us just to shut-up like every other Christian out there wants us to. Christianity deserves that hate that it gets. People have been abused by the church financially and emotionally and it all for control. You are a new member, why don't you particpate in a disscussion before making claims you arn't aware of. I suggest reading the testimonies of former Christians it is more of a reality of what is happening.

 

I have sir.

[Jun]

I'm sick and tired of atheists pushing their dogma on society.

 

Atheists have a dogma?

 

There is no need for Atheists to gather every seven days or on auspicious days to proclaim our rectitude or to grovel and wallow in our unworthiness. Atheists do not require priests, or a hierarchy above them to police a doctrine. The worship of any images or objects is abhorrent to Atheists. No spot on this little rock called Earth is any "holier" than any other spot. Atheists don't kill people in the name of a fiction.

 

Religion spoke it's last words a very very long time ago. We shall have no more prophets or miracles, which is why the Christians devotions of today are simply echoing repetitions of yesterday.

 

Religion is man-made. Even the men who made it can't agree on what their prophets said or did.

 

What group also wants people to follow and abandon it's faith? Atheists

 

Which religious group spends millions of dollars in 3rd world countries evangilizing, preaching and trying to convince the occupants of those countries that their faiths are wrong so that they can get more followers to fill their coffers? Christianity.

[Kuroikaze]

My point being, what is the difference between "the fundies" that are all destroying society with their awful Evangelism (because we all know that christianity is the worst thing in the world compared to all the raping, killing, drug use and selling out there)

 

I have no problem with fundies evangilizing...as long as they are willing to deal with my responses when they get in my face. I am more concerned with their attempts to violate civil rights and turn our country into a theocracy. Not all Christians are about this and I don't have much issue with those sort of Christians.

 

It should be noted that Christianity has been responsible for lots of the killing and raping throughout history. I've never done drugs and drug use has never really affected me in any way. Christianity has affected me

 

and athesist costantly doing the same thing. I always hear that one of the big problems atheists have with christianity is that the "fundies" push their dogma religion on them and they don't wanna hear it. Umm don't atheists do the same thing.

 

Not really...I've never seen an atheist tell Christians they can't believe what ever they want. I've heard plenty atheists ask Christians to provide proof for their beliefs if they want to be take seriously... Is it persecution to expect others to present evidence for their beliefs?

 

 

I really wish we could say, you believe in your crap and I'll believe in mine, but on the serious tip, I'm sick and tired of atheists pushing their dogma on society. I'm tired of them feeling oh so enlightened, and holier than thou for having free thought and being so logically superior to christians which is what you claim christians to do.

 

it seems to me that you are projecting a bit here, you also sound quite defensive, again...where is the proof for your beliefs, if you could present any then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

 

You don't believe in God, fine don't push it upon me. Keep that mess to yourself. So what's the difference?? Is it because you KNOW you're right about not having faith and not beleiving in God?? The whole atheists umm err, following, is based on observational evidence yet you have no observational evidence that there is no God. You have no observational evidence that the universe was created with the big bang...WTF??

 

I have plenty of observational evidence that your god doesn't exist...the universe does not behave in a way that is consistent with your beliefs. The ball is in your court on this one to provide evidence that it does.

 

I have no desire to push anything on you...I don't even know you, but I do think I deserve the right to state my beliefs openly as you do.

[Guest Whatchamacallit]

I'm sick and tired of atheists pushing their dogma on society.

 

Atheists have a dogma?

 

There is no need for Atheists to gather every seven days or on auspicious days to proclaim our rectitude or to grovel and wallow in our unworthiness. Atheists do not require priests, or a hierarchy above them to police a doctrine. The worship of any images or objects is abhorrent to Atheists. No spot on this little rock called Earth is any "holier" than any other spot. Atheists don't kill people in the name of a fiction.

 

Religion spoke it's last words a very very long time ago. We shall have no more prophets or miracles, which is why the Christians devotions of today are simply echoing repetitions of yesterday.

 

Religion is man-made. Even the men who made it can't agree on what their prophets said or did.

 

What group also wants people to follow and abandon it's faith? Atheists

 

Which religious group spends millions of dollars in 3rd world countries evangilizing, preaching and trying to convince the occupants of those countries that their faiths are wrong so that they can get more followers to fill their coffers? Christianity.

 

Answers to my other questions?

[Japedo]

I found this site by reading glp and typing in why atheists attack christianity so hard. But anyways, I read something posted by a person in another thread:............

and all the rest..

 

Wow, what an entrance.. Welcome to Ex-C.

 

First let me start off by saying if you're going to rant about atheist please at least be informed about them.

There are several points I wish to address here.. and will try to do so quickly.

 

1) Atheists don't have a dogma. (Big difference) To which "dogma" are you attempting to refer to that Atheists are pushing on society? Sounds like someone's been fed some bullshit from the pulpit and passing it off as truth yet again..

 

2) No one tries to rob you from your faith. (Yet another big difference) Another thing I would like further explanation.

 

3) Issues that many atheists, freethinkers and those of other religions have is with legislation that favor certain cults (Christian) who pass unconstitutional legislation from their buybull, dogma and whatnot.. Which also include censoring disdainers , intertwining church and state with the use of tax money and so forth. I could give two shits who believes what, But When I'm forced by uncle Sam to contribute to the cult... Yeah I have the right to complain and work to change it.

 

4) What you view as an attack is more of a defensive motion from where I stand.

 

5) Christianity is behind a lot of murder, and rape only a willfully blind person with denial problems would ignore the bloody history of the blood cult.

 

6) I know I'm right that the Christian faith is built on emotional manipulation, sunworship and politics.. It has zero to do with any 'higher' beings or gods.

 

7) Where is your evidence the Easter bunny doesn't exist?

 

8) Where is your evidence that man was made out of a lump of dirt by a magic sky man?

[Kuroikaze]

Ok in repsonse to your four questions, tell me what is so horribly wrong with evangelicals going out and sharing what they believe. It's something we feel that is good and we would like to share it. Usually I get an answer like it brainwashes people and the like. Now I have questions for you since a lot of atheists seem tot hink that christinaity is bad to socitey:

 

nothing is wrong with it at all, we have free speech...however, don't expect that everyone will react nicely to what you have to say. Not everyone thinks your message is good. And unfortunately, for you, there is ample evidence that the message is indeed a bad one.

 

There are tons of people whose lives have been destroyed by porn. Marriages failing, rapists, child molestors. Why aren't you focusing any energy to banning porn?

 

This is an opinion that isn't much supported by the facts...in most cases marriages that fail because of porn do so because one of the people in the marriage is religious and dislikes porn and sexuality in general because of that. There is absolutely no evidence what so ever that looking at porn turns people into rapists or child molesters.

 

Usually if a christian group is trying to ban porn or whatever it's usually brought with "Let people do what they want". Yet when it comes to christianity, which is also having "ill efffects on society", it's not let people do what they want. Contradictions?

 

Nope sorry, no contradiction here...try again.

 

There are plenty of things more destructive than what you claim christianity does, so why arent you "saving humanity", and trying to advance humanity (which is what most do) by rallying to ban porn or drugs.

 

Sophistry, I haven't rallied to ban Christianity either... and baning porn or drugs is pointless and stupid.... One, drugs are already banned and it doesn't stop many people.

 

Or even trying to speak out against some of the music that's being catered to our youth. Why don't you have a problem with gays coming to schools and preaching or rallying in the streets, but you have a problem when a Christian does?

 

Of course I don't, I think the cause for gay rights is a good one...and one Christians general try to ham string ever time they rally in the streets. I'm not trying to ban Christians from doing this, but I will let them know what I think. I'm not going to shut up just because it makes you uncomfortable.

 

 

What group also wants people to follow and abandon it's faith?Atheists

 

Religion doesn't get a free get out of logic card in my book... just because some one has a dearly held personal belief doesn't mean the belief isn't a stupid one. Faith (belief without evidence) is a naturally stupid idea.

 

Now as for the preaching, I hear it all the time from atheists. Maybe not personally, but if I go to GLP, I always see threads posted about why I shouldn't believe in God. Sounds like preaching to me. I turn on the news, and up, the AlC or whatever their name is, is trying to impose on my right to pray by arresting christians for praying at a gay rally.

 

Praying for what? for the people there to stop being gay? can you not see why this might offend the people there? Do you really perceive people posting on a message board as being "in your face" or "persecution"? Perhaps you should pick up a history book and find out how Christians tortured and killed people during the middle ages. Or hell, even Christians under Nero were persecuted more than this. Get down of your cross...you aren't a martyr.

 

 

Edit: this analogy just doesn't even work...nobody is saying Christians can't pray period just not do so in a way that is hurtful and offensive.... how would you react if I showed up at your church and started blasting Christian beliefs? think you might call the cops?

[Guest Whatchamacallit]

I found this site by reading glp and typing in why atheists attack christianity so hard. But anyways, I read something posted by a person in another thread:............

and all the rest..

 

Wow, what an entrance.. Welcome to Ex-C.

 

First let me start off by saying if you're going to rant about atheist please at least be informed about them.

There are several points I wish to address here.. and will try to do so quickly.

 

1) Atheists don't have a dogma. (Big difference) To which "dogma" are you attempting to refer to that Atheists are pushing on society? Sounds like someone's been fed some bullshit from the pulpit and passing it off as truth yet again..

 

2) No one tries to rob you from your faith. (Yet another big difference) Another thing I would like further explanation.

 

3) Issues that many atheists, freethinkers and those of other religions have is with legislation that favor certain cults (Christian) who pass unconstitutional legislation from their buybull, dogma and whatnot.. Which also include censoring disdainers , intertwining church and state with the use of tax money and so forth. I could give two shits who believes what, But When I'm forced by uncle Sam to contribute to the cult... Yeah I have the right to complain and work to change it.

 

4) What you view as an attack is more of a defensive motion from where I stand.

 

5) Christianity is behind a lot of murder, and rape only a willfully blind person with denial problems would ignore the bloody history of the blood cult.

 

6) I know I'm right that the Christian faith is built on emotional manipulation, sunworship and politics.. It has zero to do with any 'higher' beings or gods.

 

7) Where is your evidence the Easter bunny doesn't exist?

 

8) Where is your evidence that man was made out of a lump of dirt by a magic sky man?

 

1. Oh I'm very informed and I haven't been fed any "bullshit" as you put it from the pulpit. Just like you don't want to hear any of our issues pushed on society. What makes you think I want to pay for your issues?

 

2. Noone tries to rob me of my faith?? That's a funny and heinous statement. Why do atheists get off on undermining a christian's faith? I have read through this site and I'll say it again. It's as if most people here feel holier than thou for being a free thinker. Must I post the quote from someone on this site again?

 

"I am done with that. However, I feel compelled to undermine a Christians faith. I feel strongly that we are all better off without faith. I wish to be effective and so I try my level best not to be angry or condescending. I am not perfect and so, at times, I may fail in that, but I do not see it happening very often."

 

Hmmm

 

3. Agreed

 

4. You're right I'm defensive. Somebody constantly attacks my belief and to try to get me to change I'll be defensive.

 

5. Show me evidence where Christians are behind mass murder. I'm talking about those christians who go to church every once in a blue moon, then go out and get high or carry out murders in the name of God. Oh my look at those murderous christians!!:

 

http://www.christianchildrensfund.org/donate/donate.aspx

 

6. Even if it was based on emotional manipulation, what good would that do the church? A drug user walks in or an alcoholic feeling depressed, goes to church accepts Christ, changes his life, and is now happy. Oh right that's a crutch right? How is that different from people using that almighty science to take depressant pills to feel better? Isn't that a crutch as well? Hey you probably ahve a hobby or something you do to make you feel better when you're down. Truth is, everybody has a crutch of some sort.

 

7.Where is your evidence that God doesn't exist? Prove it to me. With observational evidence just like atheists believe.

 

8. Once again, where is your evidence that he wasn't? Were you there when the first man was put on earth? Observational evidence please.

[Guest Whatchamacallit]

Ok in repsonse to your four questions, tell me what is so horribly wrong with evangelicals going out and sharing what they believe. It's something we feel that is good and we would like to share it. Usually I get an answer like it brainwashes people and the like. Now I have questions for you since a lot of atheists seem tot hink that christinaity is bad to socitey:

 

nothing is wrong with it at all, we have free speech...however, don't expect that everyone will react nicely to what you have to say. Not everyone thinks your message is good. And unfortunately, for you, there is ample evidence that the message is indeed a bad one.

 

Yes we have free speech. So if I want to preach I will do so

 

There are tons of people whose lives have been destroyed by porn. Marriages failing, rapists, child molestors. Why aren't you focusing any energy to banning porn?

 

This is an opinion that isn't much supported by the facts...in most cases marriages that fail because of porn do so because one of the people in the marriage is religious and dislikes porn and sexuality in general because of that. There is absolutely no evidence what so ever that looking at porn turns people into rapists or child molesters.

 

Evidence of what porn stars go through. This isn't destructive? You wouldn't want to help these people? Of course not.

 

http://www.obscenitycrimes.org/ShelleyLubben.cfm

 

Usually if a christian group is trying to ban porn or whatever it's usually brought with "Let people do what they want". Yet when it comes to christianity, which is also having "ill efffects on society", it's not let people do what they want. Contradictions?

 

Nope sorry, no contradiction here...try again.

 

No contradictions? lol. When christians preach against something, people continuously complain about mind your own business. Well how are you goin to do the same thing to me. Let me do what I want and I don't wanna hear any gripe from you.

 

There are plenty of things more destructive than what you claim christianity does, so why arent you "saving humanity", and trying to advance humanity (which is what most do) by rallying to ban porn or drugs.

 

Sophistry, I haven't rallied to ban Christianity either... and baning porn or drugs is pointless and stupid.... One, drugs are already banned and it doesn't stop many people.

 

It's pointless and stupid? So having our youth exposed to drugs and sex at a young age is not a problem? We should just give up? Oh I see. But a lot of atheists spend time "deprogamming" their children our other people from christianity, but let them get programmed by mainstream television. There's no problem with that right?

 

Or even trying to speak out against some of the music that's being catered to our youth. Why don't you have a problem with gays coming to schools and preaching or rallying in the streets, but you have a problem when a Christian does?

 

Of course I don't, I think the cause for gay rights is a good one...and one Christians general try to ham string ever time they rally in the streets. I'm not trying to ban Christians from doing this, but I will let them know what I think. I'm not going to shut up just because it makes you uncomfortable.

 

And I'm not going to shutup because what I say makes you uncomfortable.

 

 

What group also wants people to follow and abandon it's faith?Atheists

 

Religion doesn't get a free get out of logic card in my book... just because some one has a dearly held personal belief doesn't mean the belief isn't a stupid one. Faith (belief without evidence) is a naturally stupid idea.

 

So according to you, fiath without belief is stupid. Yet you have faith that the universe was created by the big bang. SHOW ME PROOF THAT THIS HAPPENED THE WAY SCIENCE SAID IT DID.

 

Now as for the preaching, I hear it all the time from atheists. Maybe not personally, but if I go to GLP, I always see threads posted about why I shouldn't believe in God. Sounds like preaching to me. I turn on the news, and up, the AlC or whatever their name is, is trying to impose on my right to pray by arresting christians for praying at a gay rally.

 

Praying for what? for the people there to stop being gay? can you not see why this might offend the people there? Do you really perceive people posting on a message board as being "in your face" or "persecution"? Perhaps you should pick up a history book and find out how Christians tortured and killed people during the middle ages. Or hell, even Christians under Nero were persecuted more than this. Get down of your cross...you aren't a martyr.

Maybe you should get a history book on how atheists have done the same thing. There's bad apples in every bunch.

 

 

Edit: this analogy just doesn't even work...nobody is saying Christians can't pray period just not do so in a way that is hurtful and offensive.... how would you react if I showed up at your church and started blasting Christian beliefs? think you might call the cops?

Youre right I would call the cops. That's my property. These people were praying on public property.

[Kuroikaze]

4. You're right I'm defensive. Somebody constantly attacks my belief and to try to get me to change I'll be defensive.

 

I could say the same thing.

 

 

5. Show me evidence where Christians are behind mass murder. I'm talking about those christians who go to church every once in a blue moon, then go out and get high or carry out murders in the name of God. Oh my look at those murderous christians!!:

 

Do you read history? does the Spanish inquisition ring any bells? how about the crusades? or the Salem witch trials. Did you know that Calvin had Arminius burned to death because he didn't like his theology? how many examples do you need? I could go on for a while.

 

 

6. Even if it was based on emotional manipulation, what good would that do the church? A drug user walks in or an alcoholic feeling depressed, goes to church accepts Christ, changes his life, and is now happy. Oh right that's a crutch right? How is that different from people using that almighty science to take depressant pills to feel better? Isn't that a crutch as well? Hey you probably ahve a hobby or something you do to make you feel better when you're down. Truth is, everybody has a crutch of some sort.

 

No one mentioned crutches.... emotional manipulation is something else entirely...none of this has anything to do with your beliefs being true...or to do with Christian "persecution" for that mater

 

7.Where is your evidence that God doesn't exist? Prove it to me. With observational evidence just like atheists believe.

 

 

this dog won't hunt... you need evidence for your particular god, not the other way round. You otherwise to be logicaly consistant you must present an argument that disproves all the other gods of all the other religions that can not be used to disprove yours.

[Guest Whatchamacallit]

4. You're right I'm defensive. Somebody constantly attacks my belief and to try to get me to change I'll be defensive.

 

I could say the same thing.

 

 

5. Show me evidence where Christians are behind mass murder. I'm talking about those christians who go to church every once in a blue moon, then go out and get high or carry out murders in the name of God. Oh my look at those murderous christians!!:

 

Do you read history? does the Spanish inquisition ring any bells? how about the crusades? or the Salem witch trials. Did you know that Calvin had Arminius burned to death because he didn't like his theology? how many examples do you need? I could go on for a while.

 

All arguments I've ehard before. The Salem Witch Trials killed fewer than 30 people. Even so I wouldn't call these people Christians. People have killed in he name of God and I'm not denying it. People have killed in the name of creating that humanistic tradition as well (Hitler, Stalin, Zedong) so should I clump atheists together with these people? "If God is not, everything is permitted"

 

6. Even if it was based on emotional manipulation, what good would that do the church? A drug user walks in or an alcoholic feeling depressed, goes to church accepts Christ, changes his life, and is now happy. Oh right that's a crutch right? How is that different from people using that almighty science to take depressant pills to feel better? Isn't that a crutch as well? Hey you probably ahve a hobby or something you do to make you feel better when you're down. Truth is, everybody has a crutch of some sort.

 

No one mentioned crutches.... emotional manipulation is something else entirely...none of this has anything to do with your beliefs being true...or to do with Christian "persecution" for that mater

 

No one mentioned crutches in this thread, but I hear this "emotional crutch" thing all the time as if it's a bad thing.

 

7.Where is your evidence that God doesn't exist? Prove it to me. With observational evidence just like atheists believe.

 

 

this dog won't hunt... you need evidence for your particular god, not the other way round. You otherwise to be logicaly consistant you must present an argument that disproves all the other gods of all the other religions that can not be used to disprove yours.

Evidence is not part of the christian faith. Notice I said faith. It's based on faith. You need evidence that God doesn't exist and I have yet to see it.

[Japedo]

1. Oh I'm very informed and I haven't been fed any "bullshit" as you put it from the pulpit. Just like you don't want to hear any of our issues pushed on society. What makes you think I want to pay for your issues?

 

Sorry, you're not informed at all, as evidence of your broad-brush hysterical inaccurate claims.

 

I'd also love to know what pet issues of mine you're being forced to pay for?

 

 

2. Noone tries to rob me of my faith?? That's a funny and heinous statement. Why do atheists get off on undermining a christian's faith? I have read through this site and I'll say it again. It's as if most people here feel holier than thou for being a free thinker. Must I post the quote from someone on this site again?

 

"I am done with that. However, I feel compelled to undermine a Christians faith. I feel strongly that we are all better off without faith. I wish to be effective and so I try my level best not to be angry or condescending. I am not perfect and so, at times, I may fail in that, but I do not see it happening very often."

Hmmm

 

Wmc..

 

I can not speak for all atheist. I can only type for myself. There are many atheists I know who are kind, compassionate and extremely tolerant of the Xtian faith. I am not one of those atheists. I have major contempt for what it did to me personally and to my family. I detest it with every ounce of my being. I detest what it does to people emotionally. *I* View it as one of the most unjust cults around. It causes self-loathing, It causes emotional trauma, It causes a person to beat themselves down, My views of it is It's an abusive mindset over all.

 

My feelings aside, While I would love to see extremism be done away with, I know it's not a realistic. I have people in my life whom I love very much who are Christians, some are even fundamentals. I would never force anyone to my views. I will debate and point out flaws, but I will and would never ever FORCE anyone to do anything. You want to have a discussion that's fine, if you don't that's fine too. To each their own. You're over here on Ex_C using the biggest broad-brush I've seen in quite awhile. I will never go to a Christian forum and disrespect their space. I'll debate them here or in life if it's in my face or brought up in discussion. Never will I use scare tactics such as hell, eternal torment, et al to win my argument. Arguments should stand and fall on their own... no magic might be's waiting behind the corner to emotionally force me to comply. That is another huge differnce.

 

 

4. You're right I'm defensive. Somebody constantly attacks my belief and to try to get me to change I'll be defensive.

 

 

 

I was saying We are on the defensive, not you. What you view as an attack on your faith, We view as a defensive measure against your eternal torment and blood based dogma.

 

5. Show me evidence where Christians are behind mass murder. I'm talking about those christians who go to church every once in a blue moon, then go out and get high or carry out murders in the name of God. Oh my look at those murderous christians!!:

 

NO offense or anything but have you bothered to open a history book? God has been behind more killings and bloodbaths then money or land. Crusades, inquisitions, Witch Trials, and so on. I'll note that your Christ advocates carrying a sword. I'll also note that your god requires to kill non believers and heretics.

 

6. Even if it was based on emotional manipulation, what good would that do the church? A drug user walks in or an alcoholic feeling depressed, goes to church accepts Christ, changes his life, and is now happy. Oh right that's a crutch right? How is that different from people using that almighty science to take depressant pills to feel better? Isn't that a crutch as well? Hey you probably ahve a hobby or something you do to make you feel better when you're down. Truth is, everybody has a crutch of some sort.

 

Same reason any cult wants members... Money and power

 

Have you taken a look at the leaders of the cults? Show me one who's walked their talk. Priests molesting kids for god with a church who enabled for decades.. , Fundyass evangelist damning gays on Sunday but laying down with them on Monday afternoon, crack pipe in hand ta boot. Embezzling money, avoiding taxes, getting rich on the desperate and needy who are to terrified to question, engaging in prostitution, Preaching hell fire, fear and torment if you dare question... These people are the epitome of greed for money and power. The only thing they need to count on is how to manipulate 10% of your income out of you freely without question. Yeah emotional manipulation matters greatly, they are evil bastards!!

 

7.Where is your evidence that God doesn't exist? Prove it to me. With observational evidence just like atheists believe.

 

8. Once again, where is your evidence that he wasn't? Were you there when the first man was put on earth? Observational evidence please.

 

I never stated God doesn't exist. I just don't have proof that he does. I don't believe.. but It doesn't mean I disbelieve if given more information. I am an atheist Yes, but I'm also agnostic. I don't claim god doesn't exist... I can't prove he does so I must assume he doesn't until I'm given more evidence.

 

 

As far as how man started, I'm agnostic on that also. I have no idea and it isn't something I'm well versed in or have a strong opinion on... I certainly don't think we were made out of dirt. I think it's much more plausible that we evolved... Much like a fetus evolves into an elderly person.

[Kuroikaze]

Yes we have free speech. So if I want to preach I will do so

 

 

and I will get in your face and tell you your preaching is stupid when you do so...free speech is a bitch ain't it?

 

 

Evidence of what porn stars go through. This isn't destructive? You wouldn't want to help these people? Of course not.

 

this wasn't your argument...moving the goal posts much? anyway, I doubt either one of us knows much about the lives of porn actors...some may not have happy lives but that is true no matter what you do for a living.

 

 

No contradictions? lol. When christians preach against something, people continuously complain about mind your own business. Well how are you goin to do the same thing to me. Let me do what I want and I don't wanna hear any gripe from you.

 

The contradiction lies with you...since you are touting free speech and then telling us to shut up

 

 

 

It's pointless and stupid? So having our youth exposed to drugs and sex at a young age is not a problem? We should just give up? Oh I see. But a lot of atheists spend time "deprogamming" their children our other people from christianity, but let them get programmed by mainstream television. There's no problem with that right?

 

no its pointless and stupid because you won't get rid of it with banning.... if you want to get rid of drugs why not try educated people to its dangers, instead of trying to raise kids in a bubble.

 

 

And I'm not going to shutup because what I say makes you uncomfortable.

 

Fair enough, I didn't ask you to shut up did I? Humanity will outgrow your silly religion in its own good time the same way it did with all the other silly religions in history. I'm all in favor of giving you enough rope to hang yourself from...so go ahead an rant and rave, every time you do you will only succeed in convincing people your religion is retarded.

 

 

 

So according to you, fiath without belief is stupid. Yet you have faith that the universe was created by the big bang. SHOW ME PROOF THAT THIS HAPPENED THE WAY SCIENCE SAID IT DID.

 

 

I'm sorry, I don't speak gibberish.... I have no idea what you just said.

 

It is not my job to educate you on science...I have no "faith" in the big bang, even if it didn't happen that way (which it might not have) it wouldn't make your god true by default

 

 

 

 

Maybe you should get a history book on how atheists have done the same thing. There's bad apples in every bunch.

 

I didn't say there weren't. So we both agree that believing or not believing in god does not necessarily make one a better person one way or the other? You were the one who made this an issue not me.

 

 

 

Youre right I would call the cops. That's my property. These people were praying on public property.

 

It doesn't matter, it is hypocritical of you to expect me to avoid offending you, but simultaneously not care if you offend me

[Japedo]

Evidence is not part of the christian faith. Notice I said faith. It's based on faith. You need evidence that God doesn't exist and I have yet to see it.

 

Well if that's the case then. I have faith that he doesn't exist.... what's your evidence that he does..

[Kuroikaze]

All arguments I've ehard before. The Salem Witch Trials killed fewer than 30 people. Even so I wouldn't call these people Christians. People have killed in he name of God and I'm not denying it. People have killed in the name of creating that humanistic tradition as well (Hitler, Stalin, Zedong) so should I clump atheists together with these people? "If God is not, everything is permitted"

 

no true Scotsman fallicy, and apparently the argument from morality both are logical fallacies.

 

 

 

No one mentioned crutches in this thread, but I hear this "emotional crutch" thing all the time as if it's a bad thing.

 

so now you're trying to argue against things you don't even know we believe? brilliant

 

 

this dog won't hunt... you need evidence for your particular god, not the other way round. You otherwise to be logicaly consistant you must present an argument that disproves all the other gods of all the other religions that can not be used to disprove yours.

Evidence is not part of the christian faith. Notice I said faith. It's based on faith. You need evidence that God doesn't exist and I have yet to see it.

 

read a book on logic and then come back to this. You are being a hypocrite and I don't have to prove your god doesn't exist until you prove Zeus doesn't exist. I've already told you what I think of Faith...its retarded. And you are an uncritical idiot if you believe anything this important without solid evidence

 

You are free to have faith in what ever crazy ideas you want...hell believe in Bigfoot for all I care. But when you start passing legislation to require everyone else to believe in Bigfoot too then there will be issues

[Kuroikaze]

I can refute this stuff all night, I don't have work tomorrow and I don't even have to think real hard

 

Isn't there a fundamentalist Christian out there who can give me an intellectual challenge? Or do I even need to ask that?

[Dhampir]

Evidence is not part of the christian faith. Notice I said faith. It's based on faith. You need evidence that God doesn't exist and I have yet to see it.

Hmm... Doesn't this look like a contradiction? You rely on faith that god does exist, however, you need evidence that he doesn't... but... by virtue of 'the faith' lacking any evidence (and requiring none), such evidence cannot possibly move the faithful, given said faith in an unproven, and heretofore unprovable concept.

 

Basically, you can't know that what you believe in exists, but you need proof that it doesn't.

[Jun]

Where is your evidence that God doesn't exist? Prove it to me. With observational evidence just like atheists believe.

 

I ask you then, where is your evidence that Allah doesn't exist, or Krishna, or Shiva, or Amaterasu, or the Easter Bunny? Prove it to me. With observational evidence.

[Guest Whatchamacallit]

1. Oh I'm very informed and I haven't been fed any "bullshit" as you put it from the pulpit. Just like you don't want to hear any of our issues pushed on society. What makes you think I want to pay for your issues?

 

Sorry, you're not informed at all, as evidence of your broad-brush hysterical inaccurate claims.

 

I'd also love to know what pet issues of mine you're being forced to pay for?

 

 

2. Noone tries to rob me of my faith?? That's a funny and heinous statement. Why do atheists get off on undermining a christian's faith? I have read through this site and I'll say it again. It's as if most people here feel holier than thou for being a free thinker. Must I post the quote from someone on this site again?

 

"I am done with that. However, I feel compelled to undermine a Christians faith. I feel strongly that we are all better off without faith. I wish to be effective and so I try my level best not to be angry or condescending. I am not perfect and so, at times, I may fail in that, but I do not see it happening very often."

Hmmm

 

Wmc..

 

I can not speak for all atheist. I can only type for myself. There are many atheists I know who are kind, compassionate and extremely tolerant of the Xtian faith. I am not one of those atheists. I have major contempt for what it did to me personally and to my family. I detest it with every ounce of my being. I detest what it does to people emotionally. *I* View it as one of the most unjust cults around. It causes self-loathing, It causes emotional trauma, It causes a person to beat themselves down, My views of it is It's an abusive mindset over all.

 

My feelings aside, While I would love to see extremism be done away with, I know it's not a realistic. I have people in my life whom I love very much who are Christians, some are even fundamentals. I would never force anyone to my views. I will debate and point out flaws, but I will and would never ever FORCE anyone to do anything. You want to have a discussion that's fine, if you don't that's fine too. To each their own. You're over here on Ex_C using the biggest broad-brush I've seen in quite awhile. I will never go to a Christian forum and disrespect their space. I'll debate them here or in life if it's in my face or brought up in discussion. Never will I use scare tactics such as hell, eternal torment, et al to win my argument. Arguments should stand and fall on their own... no magic might be's waiting behind the corner to emotionally force me to comply. That is another huge differnce.

Right. Agreed. I wouldn't force my views on anyone either. So we agree that Every following has its bad people. So why judge the whole of christianity?

4. You're right I'm defensive. Somebody constantly attacks my belief and to try to get me to change I'll be defensive.

 

 

 

I was saying We are on the defensive, not you. What you view as an attack on your faith, We view as a defensive measure against your eternal torment and blood based dogma.

 

And vice versa.

 

5. Show me evidence where Christians are behind mass murder. I'm talking about those christians who go to church every once in a blue moon, then go out and get high or carry out murders in the name of God. Oh my look at those murderous christians!!:

 

NO offense or anything but have you bothered to open a history book? God has been behind more killings and bloodbaths then money or land. Crusades, inquisitions, Witch Trials, and so on. I'll note that your Christ advocates carrying a sword. I'll also note that your god requires to kill non believers and heretics.

 

It does? Well I better get started!! If this were the case, I would be out there plotting to kill some random atheists because they won't convert.

 

6. Even if it was based on emotional manipulation, what good would that do the church? A drug user walks in or an alcoholic feeling depressed, goes to church accepts Christ, changes his life, and is now happy. Oh right that's a crutch right? How is that different from people using that almighty science to take depressant pills to feel better? Isn't that a crutch as well? Hey you probably ahve a hobby or something you do to make you feel better when you're down. Truth is, everybody has a crutch of some sort.

 

Same reason any cult wants members... Money and power

 

Have you taken a look at the leaders of the cults? Show me one who's walked their talk. Priests molesting kids for god with a church who enabled for decades.. , Fundyass evangelist damning gays on Sunday but laying down with them on Monday afternoon, crack pipe in hand ta boot. Embezzling money, avoiding taxes, getting rich on the desperate and needy who are to terrified to question, engaging in prostitution, Preaching hell fire, fear and torment if you dare question... These people are the epitome of greed for money and power. The only thing they need to count on is how to manipulate 10% of your income out of you freely without question. Yeah emotional manipulation matters greatly, they are evil bastards!!

 

Shoot I don't disagree. These nasty priests, and pastors embezelling money is horrible and wrong. If you're a chrisitan and youre giving 10% and you see the pastor driving expensive cars and buying expensive jets, yet the church is still in horrible condition, you are stupid for staying there.

 

7.Where is your evidence that God doesn't exist? Prove it to me. With observational evidence just like atheists believe.

 

8. Once again, where is your evidence that he wasn't? Were you there when the first man was put on earth? Observational evidence please.

 

I never stated God doesn't exist. I just don't have proof that he does. I don't believe.. but It doesn't mean I disbelieve if given more information. I am an atheist Yes, but I'm also agnostic. I don't claim god doesn't exist... I can't prove he does so I must assume he doesn't until I'm given more evidence.

 

 

As far as how man started, I'm agnostic on that also. I have no idea and it isn't something I'm well versed in or have a strong opinion on... I certainly don't think we were made out of dirt. I think it's much more plausible that we evolved... Much like a fetus evolves into an elderly person.

[Japedo]

Why don't you have a problem with gays coming to schools and preaching or rallying in the streets, but you have a problem when a Christian does?

 

 

 

 

A persons sexual orientation is irrelevant. People should be free to love and be with whom ever they wish to be with. I'd also like you to clarify what you mean by gays going to schools and preaching? LOL.......... What to they preach?.. Inquiry minds wanna know.

 

By rallying in the streets what do you mean? The Gay pride parade? Is that what you're attempting to refer to, do you have issues with Gay Pride Parades? If you do I suggest you don't attend... what's the big deal in thoes who wish to attend?

 

Christianity promotes self loathing, Hate, Death, Blood and extreme violance, low value of human life and I don't believe it should be anywhere near children.

[Guest Whatchamacallit]

Where is your evidence that God doesn't exist? Prove it to me. With observational evidence just like atheists believe.

 

I ask you then, where is your evidence that Allah doesn't exist, or Krishna, or Shiva, or Amaterasu, or the Easter Bunny? Prove it to me. With observational evidence.

 

I'm not an atheist. I don't base everything around evidence. Atheists do. I can't prove God exists. Sorry. If you're looking for evidence it won't happen.

[Guest Whatchamacallit]

Why don't you have a problem with gays coming to schools and preaching or rallying in the streets, but you have a problem when a Christian does?

 

 

 

 

A persons sexual orientation is irrelevant. People should be free to love and be with whom ever they wish to be with. I'd also like you to clarify what you mean by gays going to schools and preaching? LOL.......... What to they preach?.. Inquiry minds wanna know.

 

By rallying in the streets what do you mean? The Gay pride Pride? Is that what you're attempting to refer to, do you have issues with Gay Pride Parades? If you do I suggest you don't attend... what's the big deal in thoes who wish to attend?

 

Christianity promotes self loathing, Hate, Death, Blood and extreme violance, low value of human life and I don't believe it should be anywhere near children.

 

So if a persons sexual orientation is irrelevant, then why is it relevant that people join the christian faith?

 

It promotes violence? I think you have us confused with the muslims over in Iran