jasonwhatever Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Hi everyone. My situation is different for a lot of peoples' testimonies in that I still believe The Bible is true, but I feel constant dread because I had such intense periods a few years ago where I was certain that I had the joy of The Holy Spirit. I went into sin and lost The Holy Spirit and had a horrible breakdown, lost my job, etc. So I feel that I can never be forgiven-- that I have blasphemed The Holy Spirit. It seems that I cannot be the only forever-damned apostate who received Grace but lost it. Where are the others? Please let me know if you had a similar experience. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 What a horrible place to be in Jason. Why do you still believe the bible to be true? Allow me to reassure you, you are not forever damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I still believe The Bible is true........ So you believe in talking snakes, dragons, flying chariots, unicorns, leviathans, angels.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I used to believe the Holy spirit was in me too and even thought I felt the presence of the HS at times. But I started to think about those times and usually it was while Christian music was playing. Thus it wasn't really the HS, but just the music stirring me. It's also wishful thinking too (psychological). If you want it bad enough, you'll feel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I went into sin and lost The Holy Spirit and had a horrible breakdown, lost my job, etc. So I feel that I can never be forgiven-- that I have blasphemed The Holy Spirit. Wow. I really feel for you. Can I ask you a couple of questions? What do you mean by "I went into sin?" Also what do you mean by "I have blasphemed The Holy Spirit?" I can understand if you don't want to go into a lot of detail but those terms are rather vague and it helps to be on the same page. I'll tell you this...I don't believe in sin against some "god" and I've blasphemed the HS countless times now (quite intentionally) so worse case we're in the same exact situation. It seems that I cannot be the only forever-damned apostate who received Grace but lost it. Where are the others? Right here. This site is crawling with them. But we're not (at least I'm not) in the recruitment business so if you decide to drop out and stay apostate then good for you (and if it turns out your really did blaspheme old casper then you're stuck here anyhow) but if you decide to head back to the land of talking snakes and where 2000+ years is "soon," well, you might get some questions but to each their own. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonwhatever Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 Thanks everyone for your input. I really do appreciate it. I absolutely believe that I used to have The Holy Spirit. Literally I felt full of The Spirit. I used to read The Bible hours a day, pray, fast, etc. Then I just go tired of it for a while and sometimes wished that I had never been saved so that I could just live my life like everyone else. I turned my back to God (or at least turned my side to Him). I stopped praying as much, and when I did pray my previously heartfelt, childlike prayers became almost resentful like "I don't even want to pray, but I'm praying because I'm compelled to." I started to have a little bit of sex (not much) and I hung around a nonchristian crowd. I had one person in particular who was a very bad influence ( I would say that as evil as this person was, it confirms my belief in demons.) I would cuss and swear and do the usual sins, and looking back I know that this guy was trying to cause me to sin on purpose like he hated and resented me to walk Holy. I went along with it though. I was lonely, maybe a little self-willed. Then in October of 2005 I had an absolute breakdown. Something inside me just broke and I felt completely devoid of God's Spirit. Literally I used to feel wrapped in an energy, but suddenly felt completely empty. I went through total anguish and thought for months that God was about to slay me, that I had sinned " the sin unto death." This sin is not any one sin....it is turning your back to God and living like the world to the point where God will not pardon any longer. I tried after this to get back into Church and attended a United Methodist Church, but it only made me feel horrible. The pastors seem to be walking in God's love, and yet I'm hated by God. What could be more horrible besides hell itself? I tried to talk with the pastors and I think that they didn't believe me, or felt secretly sorry for me that I'm damned, but what can they do? Nothing. This is the most horrible situation to be in; nothing can be worse. I'm only 29, and this inner death started when I was 27. God sure must not be too long-suffering then. Somehow Solomon can be "loved of The Lord" from the time he's a baby and receives visions from God but then go into idolatry and make and worship idols, but he's worthy enough that God still chooses him to be the lineage from which The Christ comes, and will probably receive eternal life. But I'm damned forever. I don't understand that. I'm going through what The Scriptures says that when we fall away there is nothing left but "a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries." In God's Eyes, when one receives The Spirit and then continues to sin, they are sinning directly against God. They have counted His Spirit and His Blood as less worthy than to live in the flesh. Thus, it is blasphemy against The Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicksand Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 ... that I have blasphemed The Holy Spirit. It seems that I cannot be the only forever-damned apostate who received Grace but lost it. Where are the others? Yo Jason, in my estimation any GOD that is supposed to be omnibenevolent - that is an infinite expression and practice of unlimited benevolence, punish me for whatever I believe or whatever I think or whatever I say, is not omnibenevolent being that should, by very definition, not be bothered by whatever alledged infraction but in a perpetual state of omniforgiveness. However, Bible God is not that GOD, despite all the testimony to the contrary. Ask yourself, is that a God you can worship? You've already answered that above. Bible-GOD's will is fickle and non-coherent and you see the injustice of hell. Why worship that? Fundies and apologists alike are correct, God is not humanlike. Most non-psychopathic Christians would not wish an eternity of suffering in Hell on anyone, even though they continue to worship the same beast that apparently has no will or desire to change the rules of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Wow guy, I really don't know what to say. It seems like you have a serious amount of deprogramming you need to go through. Just a couple of thoughts: From my perspective you are basing you beliefs on your experiences which are heavily tied to emotions you have felt. In my opinion, this is not a very accurate way to measure reality. Think about it this way, it's like an pilot flying through a storm. If he relies on his intuition and normal perceptions he is going to misread where the plane is in relation to the land below due to the confussion of the storm. He needs to learn to rely on the hard evidence that is found in his flight instruments and ignore his own feelings if he is to fly and land the plane safely. Your judgement of your relationship with the holy spirit and the evilness of your friend is from your intuition. It lacks hard evidence to back up your conclussions. Second thought: the god you serve is rather cruel. You practically bloodied your knees for him and yet he casts you off when your mind and body wearied from the effort you put forth to serve him. Final observation (related to the first): people look at the world and determine their world views based on paradigms. A paradigm is a set of core beliefs that you filter your experiences and incoming data through. Your paradigm is a typical Christian paradigm. It might not be right (I've found for myself after years of study and actually going through something like you are going through now, that it is not right; you need to make that discovery on your own though, I can't just tell you what is true). But, for a moment, consider that it might not be right. Consider that your friend may in fact not be evil, but just one who has a lower set of morals than you feel comfortable with. Consider for a moment that perhaps your experience of feeling the holy spirit was related to seretonin on your brain, naturally caused by your psychii's emotionalism. Again, just thoughts to consider. Like I said, you have a lot to process in your life right now. Take it slow and don't be hard on yourself. You have your whole life ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I still believe The Bible is true........ So you believe in talking snakes, dragons, flying chariots, unicorns, leviathans, angels.................. Ugh!! Aren't we forgetting something?!?!?!? The satyrs!!! Everyone always forgets the satyrs!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I absolutely believe that I used to have The Holy Spirit. Literally I felt full of The Spirit. Two months ago (or about there somewhere), my wife of eighteen years told me that she wanted a divorce. I was devastated. Broken. And could honestly say, I felt damned. Today, I feel full of The Spirit. I feel good. I feel like my entire life is laid out in front of me just waiting for me to take the next step into a new adventure. Yes, The Holy Spirit is in me. It's all perspective, dude. It's all in your mind. I could piss in Jesus' mouth right now, and that would not change how I feel today. There is no god or spirit that controls your feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhia Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I had a similar experience in Sept of 2003. It was my first semester at a Christian college, and I was a young, naive, pentecostal girl who was there to be a missionary and was extremely "on fire". I was in a worship service - going at it pentecostal-style (muttering and shaking), begging god for "more of him", etc. Then it happened: in my Christian mind, I assumed this was an attack by Satan, now I know what it really was. I felt like some cold, icy, hand reached into my chest and ripped out my heart (no, I didn't have a heart attack), and then the world went black. When I woke up, I could no longer feel the holy spirit, and in fact my first thought was "why are they humiliating themselves?" I freaked out, because as a pente I was taught that I shouldn't be in worship until I "came clean" before god, so I ran out as quickly as I could, and never returned. I spent nearly a year and a half constantly praying having others pray for me, reading my bible, etc, etc, etc; the more I read, the more I thought it was complete crap. I was horribly angry because I felt that god had "left me". I finally screamed up at the sky one night "fine! Fuck you! If you don't want me, I don't want you!", and I felt better. So thus began my deconversion. It wasn't until much later that I realized that I had wanted to feel "more of god" so much at that time, that I had made myself hyperventilate and pass out - the people around me paid me no heed because being slain in the spirit was common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirangel Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Hi everyone. My situation is different for a lot of peoples' testimonies in that I still believe The Bible is true, but I feel constant dread because I had such intense periods a few years ago where I was certain that I had the joy of The Holy Spirit.I went into sin and lost The Holy Spirit and had a horrible breakdown, lost my job, etc. So I feel that I can never be forgiven-- that I have blasphemed The Holy Spirit. It seems that I cannot be the only forever-damned apostate who received Grace but lost it. Where are the others? Please let me know if you had a similar experience. Thanks Why are you forever damned? I thought that God's forgiveness was key to all Christian faiths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Hi everyone. My situation is different for a lot of peoples' testimonies in that I still believe The Bible is true, but I feel constant dread because I had such intense periods a few years ago where I was certain that I had the joy of The Holy Spirit.I went into sin and lost The Holy Spirit and had a horrible breakdown, lost my job, etc. So I feel that I can never be forgiven-- that I have blasphemed The Holy Spirit. It seems that I cannot be the only forever-damned apostate who received Grace but lost it. Where are the others? Please let me know if you had a similar experience. Thanks I feel for you and understand where you are. Religious fears, though baseless, can be very powerful. I used to go through periods of fear myself wondering if I was really saved or not, and fearing death because of it. I feared death even when I wasn't doubting my salvation because dying meant facing GOD. The bible is an ancient Book of Myths that reflects the time in which it was written. It is a poor history book, a poor science book (the mostly anonymous authors of the bible clearly knew nothing of modern science), and the fantastic stories presented in the bible are obvious myths. There is no evidence at all to back up the major stories of scripture. The creation myths are obvious pre-scientific mythology, there is no evidence that a worldwide flood ever took place, there is no evidence that the Exodus ever occurred, and there is no evidence that Jesus or anyone else, for that matter, has ever risen from the dead. In fact, there is no evidence at all that Jesus even ever existed! There is also no evidence that places such as heaven or hell actually exist. So why do you believe the bible to be true? You cannot possibly be damned because there is no such thing as damnation, so though I know it's not easy right now to do, you truly can stop worrying about it. You can also stop worrying about sin because there is no such thing as sin. Sin is a mythological concept taken from an ancient Book of Myths. There isn't the slightest bit of evidence that there is a god or that there is, in reality, a "holy spirit". Why do you suppose that your prayers have been met with silence? The answer is as easy as it is simple! There is no god and therefore there is nobody to hear your prayers. I know very well how hard that reality can be to face, and I know how painful it is to have your religious beliefs crumble to pieces around you for lack of any supporting evidence. The power of belief is just incredible. I strongly advise you to start examining your beliefs in the light of reason and rationality, instead of basing what you believe on emotional experiences and what an ancient book that was authored by mostly anonymous people has to say. You CAN get out from under all of the religious fear you are feeling. It may not happen overnight for you, but the surest way to overcome those fears is to come to the realization that your fears have no demonstrable basis in reality. You are fearing what cannot possibly happen and you are living in fear of mythological beings. You fear what does not even exist! The sooner that realization comes and your fears dissipate, the happier you will be. There are no "forever-damned apostates" here, since damnation is a religious concept with no basis in reality. The only apostates here are those who have realized that Christianity and the bible are both bullshit, and they walked away from religious bondage and into freedom. You can be FREE too! It'll take some time and thought and learning, but it can happen for you too! Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perianwalsh Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Hey..i thought i am the only one who dreams about hellfire...seems that jasonwhatever has a more nasty experience than me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 begging god for "more of him", etc. Then it happened: ... I felt like some cold, icy, hand reached into my chest and ripped out my heart (no, I didn't have a heart attack), and then the world went black. When I woke up, I could no longer feel the holy spirit, This has nothing to do with the OP but this is almost exactly what happened right near the end of everything for me when I was in bed begging what turned out to be myself for more faith. Lying there in a pool of sweat just wanting that "feeling" back. Pleading to the ceiling for days on end for what was promised in that book until that fateful night when...*nothing*. I had my answer. After that I just felt nothingness. An eerie calm. Not at all what I expected really after what I had experienced earlier and after all I heard about those who had "fallen." mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 I absolutely believe that I used to have The Holy Spirit. Literally I felt full of The Spirit. I used to read The Bible hours a day, pray, fast, etc. Then I just go tired of it for a while and sometimes wished that I had never been saved so that I could just live my life like everyone else. I turned my back to God (or at least turned my side to Him). I stopped praying as much, and when I did pray my previously heartfelt, childlike prayers became almost resentful like "I don't even want to pray, but I'm praying because I'm compelled to." I started to have a little bit of sex (not much) Well, right off, pretty much anything that you do too much you're simply going to burn out doing. It's that simple. I know that the religion tells you that it's the HS but more than likely it's a set of chemicals in your brain and you were a church junkie. Don't like that comparison? Too bad. It's just how the brain works as recent studies show for any number of activities (not specifically church but I'm not sure how they'd measure that exactly). and I hung around a nonchristian crowd. I had one person in particular who was a very bad influence ( I would say that as evil as this person was, it confirms my belief in demons.) I would cuss and swear and do the usual sins, and looking back I know that this guy was trying to cause me to sin on purpose like he hated and resented me to walk Holy. I went along with it though. I was lonely, maybe a little self-willed. Now, why are you blaming others for what you're doing? Let's say you're right and he did resent you. Did you have to go along? By your own admission you did not but you did anyway. It's not his fault. You are your own person. Seems to me that you like the idea of others telling you what to do so perhaps the church is a good place for you otherwise you might get into trouble. A better idea is for you to learn to take responsibility for your own actions and make your own choices. You can be a good person and not be xian. I realize this sounds contradictory but it is not. 2/3 of the world are not christian and 2/3 of the world is not destroyed or "evil." People might want to believe that but it is not so. For those who do believe this just remember that the non-xian parts of the world look at the US and consider us to be "evil." It's all in the eye of the beholder. All that's really required is to be responsible and respectful. If you can do that then you're in pretty good shape. I used to believe in demons and all that. Now I've invited any/all supernatural beings, including demons, to show up at my house and do whatever "tricks" they do. Before, when I believed in them, they "lurked" in every shadow, but to date not a single creature has made an appearance. I have to say I'm just a little disappointed. Then in October of 2005 I had an absolute breakdown. Something inside me just broke and I felt completely devoid of God's Spirit. Literally I used to feel wrapped in an energy, but suddenly felt completely empty. I went through total anguish and thought for months that God was about to slay me, that I had sinned " the sin unto death." This sin is not any one sin....it is turning your back to God and living like the world to the point where God will not pardon any longer. I tried after this to get back into Church and attended a United Methodist Church, but it only made me feel horrible. The pastors seem to be walking in God's love, and yet I'm hated by God. What could be more horrible besides hell itself? I tried to talk with the pastors and I think that they didn't believe me, or felt secretly sorry for me that I'm damned, but what can they do? Nothing. A "breakdown" is probably a good word for it. You can only go full-steam at these sorts of things for so long. Your body/brain needs more and more of the "drug" to get its "fix." "Living like the world" is a funny thing to say. This god made this world. Then he tells you that you shouldn't really like it because we screwed it up and there's a better one coming along just after you die (oh, there's the whole rapture thing, but that idea is only a couple hundred years old). Now, Revelation talks about the fun things like slaughtering all of the people god doesn't like even though he loves everyone and chucking them in the old lake of fire but then, right at the end in chapter 22, it talks about the people who are still alive but aren't allowed in the new city, and these people are the same losers that were supposedly tossed in the lake (liars and whatnot). How could this be? The fabulous new heaven and earth has dregs of society? You bet it does. Study up on it. It has god, lamb, the chosen in the city, kings and nations (why?) and those outside the city whose names aren't on the guest list. Who are they? Gentiles of course. Jews are in the city. So why the desire to die to come back to that future? No one goes to heaven since Revelation is the final destination and god lives on earth. That aside, as far as god pardoning you. Let's see. You are told to pardon people 70 times 7. Not literally of course but forgive people and just keep doing it. Are you help to a higher standard than your god? The most loving, moral and ethical being in the entire universe and beyond and you are expected to forgive someone, even me (a total stranger), more than your god is to forgive you? Doesn't that seem...odd? What could you possibly do to offend such a being that it could never, ever, forgive you but no matter what I did to you (killing your family or torturing you or whatever) that you are still expected to forgive me? It seems that if your god is all he's cracked up to be that he should easily be able to out perform you in the forgiveness department. After all, we're supposedly "defective" in that we're far from perfect so how much harder it is for us to live up to this standard than something that is already supposedly perfect. If your god cannot forgive you as he expects you to forgive then he has quite a double standard and your allegiance to him should be re-examined. This is the most horrible situation to be in; nothing can be worse. I'm only 29, and this inner death started when I was 27. God sure must not be too long-suffering then. Somehow Solomon can be "loved of The Lord" from the time he's a baby and receives visions from God but then go into idolatry and make and worship idols, but he's worthy enough that God still chooses him to be the lineage from which The Christ comes, and will probably receive eternal life. But I'm damned forever. I don't understand that. The great thing about Solomon is that there is not one shred of evidence that he even existed. From a historical standpoint he doesn't exist outside the bible. To compare yourself to someone in a story can give you insight but maybe you should pick someone else? Maybe from Star Wars or The Matrix or something like that? I'm going through what The Scriptures says that when we fall away there is nothing left but "a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries." In God's Eyes, when one receives The Spirit and then continues to sin, they are sinning directly against God. They have counted His Spirit and His Blood as less worthy than to live in the flesh. Thus, it is blasphemy against The Holy Spirit. Realize that most all cults have this little clause that warn their members of all the bad things that will happen if they quit. It's what keeps them from quitting of course. Of course, if it is right, then you're screwed. To blaspheme the HS puts you on the apostate list for good. Those are the rules. But it kind of negates that whole idea of forgiveness thing. It makes god out to be someone that cannot forgive as much as you or I can. He's petty. Seems a bit odd to me that you can "hurt" god in some fashion that he can't get over...ever. On the other hand, it seems like a perfectly human idea to project that concept onto a god so that people will stay in-line and not join up and keep acting in some way a control freak leader disapproves of. After the "leaders" are usually the ones defining "sin" and how your god "feels" about it. Until some god personally says "MWC, I am god and ..." and he does the same for everyone else so there's no room for error and all humans are on the same page and born with these instructions instead of having to be taught, well, I'm simply not buying in. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhia Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 I would typically not say this to someone, as my own deconversion was so painful that I would never wish it upon another; but in this case I'll make an exception. Jasonwhatever, you can put your own suffering to an end whenever you make the decision. You've already discovered that the god you describe is not going to come down and strike you dead for unbelief, doubt, or even for being human - which you described to us already. You have so many doubts yet you cling to a faith that has put you through "total anguish". I went through the same thing, in a church where the pastor claimed to love everyone, and seemed like a genuinely great guy, but when we would speak together in his office would negate my every word and tell me that I didn't have enough faith, and that I would "regret this decision". I was so hesitant to leave the faith, and what helped me more than anything was the realization that I COULDN'T go to hell. It's physically impossible to feel anything after death, because after all - death is the shut-down of the central nervous system, from which pain and the interpretation thereof are found. To assume that after death you feel pain would be to assume that you soul has a body, and indeed a brain capable of understanding the sensations and emotions running through it. If I could take your pain I would, but I can't; and therefore the only thing I can do is tell you that if you choose to remain in your faith you may indeed come out of your slump, but your doubts will always be there in the back of your mind - nagging you. Even if you do purposely choose to forget them for years, they will return. The mind is wired to wish to find inconsistency and a solution to the problems we find; when we can't find the answers in a way that satisfies us, we go sometimes into a kind of panic mode, so even if you do indeed find a way to squelch your feelings well, they will probably return, and more fierce than ever. If you choose to leave your faith, in return for a lack, or a questioning status, or even an attempt to discover a different god(s), you may find that the answers you were looking for. Either way, it takes time, and pain, and I don't care what others say - I don't think that a loving "God" should put his people through the hell that many of us have faced and still be called loving, merciful, or perfect. I'm a human, and by Christian standards, sinful - if I'm so "sinful", and I think it's cruel, and I have a supposedly cruel, selfish, and hateful nature; then how on earth can I believe, serve, and love a god who is so willing to bring about pain, suffering, doubt, and death for "His Glory"? I'd rather be damned for committing blasphemy of the Holy Spirit than love that merciless and hateful tyrant. You are not damned, you're just waking up after 29 years. Whatever choice you make is yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Jason, don't do this to yourself. You've got enough to go through in your life without hanging onto Xian propaganda. It sucks that you've gotten the shit end of the stick, but do not harm yourself by clinging to Xian lies. There is no such thing as "sin" - therefore, you are not a sinner. You are imperfect, as all humans are, but you're not a special offense to some deity. There is no proof that such a deity or such an offense category exists, so stop deceiving yourself. The Wholly Babble is shot through with condemnations of humanity for just being human, and this is one of the reasons we here oppose it, so stop giving in to the spiritual terrorism! This is why many of us are such strong opponents of Xianity, the neurotic things it can instill in the believer's mind. You only honestly tried to live up to your religion, and are now paying a hard price for it. You meant well, but now it's time to throw out that rotten turd from your life before it stinks up anything further. I'm not an Atheist, but I hardly feel "unpardonable" - there's no reason to. The concept of sin is a wholly man-made invention, since only in man-made sources can we find any mention of it. Nowhere else in the universe and nothing else in it evidences any such nonsense. It's a veritable crime against humanity that a religion should teach such rotten ideas to people, which in turn invariably ends up burdening and ruining lives because of it. My advice to you is to bone up on the truth about Xianity. Give the critics of it an honest read and see the facts for yourself. Also, give heed to what groups like the Humanists have to say about human nature, and you'll see a far more balanced and reasonable - and heartening - portrayal of who and what you are than you would in the Wholly Babble or similar trash. You may not be perfect, but you don't deserve to believe what Xianity would make you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Jason, The concept of The Holy Spirit is all in your mind. Holy Spirit is not real. He's as real as Santa Claus. The proof of him ever existing is zero. So it is of no consequence if you called him a demon and a rapist. All that exists of your Holy Spirit is what comes out of your mouth and this book of fairytales with mixed morals (To put it mildly) The offended feelings of Holy Spirit, Jesus and God is purely imaginary because there's nothing to offend in the first place. The only ones who would be offended is your fellow Christians. Even then, these offended Christians have it all in their heads. You're not a bad or mean person, just a human with confused feelings about this issue. Say "Holy Spirit is a shitkicker, whore feeder, watersports addict, demon, abuser, murderer, thief, twofaced, animal masturbator and paedophile." If it was directed at a person that is real, it would be extremely offensive and you'd be charged with slander. But Holy Spirit doesn't exist, so there's nothing to slander or hurt, nothing will happen, so it's a freedom of speech right to say negative things about God or any other God/nesses as well saying positive things about them. Remember, don't give in to the Church's bullshit. The Unpardonable Sin was a scam made up by early Christians to make you stay, pay tithes (theft) and give the leaders power. They want all that and it's your right to stop them from that. Deny Holy Spirit or God or Jesus all you want. You are a strong person, you have your mind, your heart, your friends and family. Stay with them instead of the Church. Humanism or Buddhism or Atheism or Deism or even Paganism are far more life affirming than Christianity, Judaism and Islam, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Jason, trust that any god worthy of the name would not condemn anyone to eternal punishment. You are not damned. You're okay. Take a deep breath and let go of the fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrisonjj Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Hi everyone. My situation is different for a lot of peoples' testimonies in that I still believe The Bible is true, but I feel constant dread because I had such intense periods a few years ago where I was certain that I had the joy of The Holy Spirit.I went into sin and lost The Holy Spirit and had a horrible breakdown, lost my job, etc. So I feel that I can never be forgiven-- that I have blasphemed The Holy Spirit. It seems that I cannot be the only forever-damned apostate who received Grace but lost it. Where are the others? Please let me know if you had a similar experience. Thanks Yes, I still feel very similar after 40 years of belief and practice. During the last 2 years of my catholic deconversion I've blasphmed god and the holy spirit countless times trying to affirm my deconversion. I've received communion without confession with "mortal" sins on my soul and walked out of church saying "fuck it" to myself. With all this, we are still raising the children with religion as someday they can decide whether its nonsense or not, for themselves. Perhaps hypocritical, but I am being honest. With these grave "sins" life goes on, I haven't been struck dead and I just don't care whether there is a god or not because I have no way of really knowing. Also, I have prayed to the "fuckin holy spirit" countless times to enlighten my mind and strengthen my faith. The answer? Today I am agnostic and probably atheist. Regardless of your decisions you are a precious, intelligent human being full of great potential and happiness. Be well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonwhatever Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Hi everyone. You all have been wonderful while I've been struggling. I truly appreciate your kindness. The comments that you all have made have caused me to start to consider the possibility that I'm just mentally ill and that the dreads and despair and religiosity that I've had for years now is because of manic depression. I remember that at 19 I had a six-month period of total despair and anxiety, just horrible darkness, which at that time I equated with my being eternally damned. I felt like I had committed the unpardonable sin. The despair is dark that it engulfs you with terror, real and living terror. And the Bible only makes it worse with things like "it is impossible to renew them again to repentance," "it is a frightening thing to fall into the hands of the living God," "God is a consuming fire," talk of hell fire, etc. I remember during that period I would read the Bible and literally at times a feeling of total terror would come over me to where I would literally be paralyzed with fear. That period was then followed by about a year or so of feeling like I was "chosen" of God. I thought I was one of the elect, as he said "many are called but few are chosen." I thought that I was special to God, that I was one of the chosen selected and favored by The Lord. Jesus said that he hides things from the world and speaks to them in parables but that he speaks to his apostles and shows them things by his spirit. I thought that I was being shown the truth directly from Him more than he shows most people. There were periods there where I would go into my room and pray and open The Bible and feel like I was absolutely wrapped in God's love. I felt that The Holy Spirit was upon me, and I felt joy, which I interpreted to be as it says that the holy spirit is joy. It was like a wave of joy would come upon me and I would lift up my arms and cry and feel like light was emanating from me. I'm starting to wonder (and hope) if this was the manic period of my possible mental illness. I went from crushing despair and feeling uniquely damned to feeling uniquely special and joyfullness and loved of God. Studying up on manic depression, I read that it is characterized by these very things I described....alternating periods of crushing despair and bliss and racing exhiliration. What's more it says that those suffering from it often feel that they are "chosen" or special. For the last two years I've felt like I would be stricked down by God....and it turns out that it says that those manic-depressive are often fascinated by morbid thoughts. Looking back on my life, I've had these periods since I was about 17 or 18, I think. I've always been a daydreamer and very quiet and reserved. I really wonder if I am nuts. I actually hope that I am nuts because it's better to be nuts than to be damned. What a cruel thing The Bible is to put people through this dread, putting them into a prison of terror so that they cannot live their lives in freedom without extra thoughts of damnation. I'm sure that The Bible has put many of those already inclined toward mental illness through a figurative hell on earth. My grandmother once told me that The Bible will make a person go crazy, and that's exactly what it did to me. What a perfectly constructed religion. You have to live a slave to God, and be totally other than how your were made...you have to deny the flesh and your life for God. Then if you ever leave, you are damned forever and "it would have been good for them to not to have known the way of truth than" to have walked away from it. You serve God out of fear, not true love, and if you want to please The Lord, you have to live life without any thought of tomorrow for "sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof" and "take no thought for your life, what you shall eat or your body what you shall put on. The life is more than meat and the body is more than raiment." Etc. Sorry to type so long everyone. This is like a catharsis for me, and I'm starting to think that my highs and lows really were from a disease of the mind. When you have a religiously-inclined mind like mine and were taught it from a young age, coupled with a mental disorder and creativity, that's a recipe for psychosis. But thing is when you have it, you don't know it; thus, the nightmare becomes the reality. You all have made me start believing that I'm not an evil person. And I don't deserve damnation more than anyone else. I'm not uniquely worthy of hellfire. I appreciate you all for it. You all have been more kind to me in helping me deal with this than the Christian pastors I went to when I went through an episode of despair. Thanks again everyone. All I can do is say that I'm not perfect and I cried my heart out to the lord and fasted and prayed and gave it years of my life, literally denying myself for him. If he hates me for not being perfect, that shows how quick to wrath and how hateful he is, despite his word that says that he is so slow to wrath and full of loving mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Jason, I know you aren't at the point of realizing and dealing with this yet, but there isn't a god. God does not exist, therefore he cannot possibly get angry with you or hate you. I can relate very well to your feelings of depression and mania, since I am bipolar (manic-depressive) as well. I was diagnosed at the age of 32, but the illness has affected me greatly since my teenage years. I maintain a site on Bipolar Disorder that you are welcome to visit. It is located here: http://www.bipolardiet.com. Honestly, your last post scares me a bit. Are you okay? Are you depressed right now? If you do have Bipolar Disorder, you are not "nuts". You simply have a thankfully very treatable mood disorder. I do happen to be "nuts" myself, but that's besides the point. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk privately about bipolar disorder, or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrisonjj Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Jason, I know you aren't at the point of realizing and dealing with this yet, but there isn't a god. God does not exist, therefore he cannot possibly get angry with you or hate you. I can relate very well to your feelings of depression and mania, since I am bipolar (manic-depressive) as well. I was diagnosed at the age of 32, but the illness has affected me greatly since my teenage years. I maintain a site on Bipolar Disorder that you are welcome to visit. It is located here: http://www.bipolardiet.com. Honestly, your last post scares me a bit. Are you okay? Are you depressed right now? If you do have Bipolar Disorder, you are not "nuts". You simply have a thankfully very treatable mood disorder. I do happen to be "nuts" myself, but that's besides the point. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk privately about bipolar disorder, or whatever. Good advice Jeff. Don't talk to pastors, but get help from psychitriast! You are not crazy or nuts, but a professional can help steer you. You are worth it and get that sin nonsense away from you. I wish you well and also pm me if you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 It seems that if your god is all he's cracked up to be that he should easily be able to out perform you in the forgiveness department. After all, we're supposedly "defective" in that we're far from perfect so how much harder it is for us to live up to this standard than something that is already supposedly perfect. This was a key part of my deconversion. It would send Christians scurrying for their bibles. After they read their bibles and caught their breaths and "came to their senses" they always returned to their old beliefs. The old patch-ups for closing the gaps of god would be back in place full force. No matter what they did or said, they could not answer my question as to why Jesus had to die--why couldn't god just forgive without anyone's death? Answer: Because he is so holy that we can't even presume to approach him but he allows us. He is so merciful that he allows us to approach him, guilt-ridden and filthy sinners that we are. Such is their argument. And it makes absolutely no sense in today's democratic world. The closest analogy I have yet been able to find for that kind of thinking is the master-slave relationship of the Greco-Roman world of NT times. Or the manor lord of medieval Europe and his serfs or peasant dependents. In medieval Europe, the lords protected the peasants in return for labour. Bandits and enemy lords roamed the countryside, taking whomsoever they could and forcing the captives to serve them, which could mean fighting in their ranks. In a society such as this where might literally made right, it made a great deal of sense for the peasants to cooperate with the ideas of the powerful. This meant to serve the lords in return for protection from enemy lords and/or bandits. (What was the difference between a lord and a bandit? Basically, it maybe it depended on whether or not a man and his coherts were sanctioned by the Church.) These peasants came to be known as serfs. They depended on the manor lords for their very lives. Food, clothing, shelter--all depended on the whims and fancies of the lords, who tended to be rash young stags of the world, or seasoned veteran army generals (or the medieval equivilent). When we look at the ages of many of these great heroes, such as Alexander the Great, we see that men in their late teens or early twenties were leading armies into conquests that changed the course of history for the next couple thousand years. So we have a young man, perhaps nineteen years old. His old man got killed a long time ago and the young guy just came of age. He is drunk with power. He has been raised with the unshakable conviction that his noble birth makes him far superior to the weathered serfs (aged roughly between fifteen and thirty-five, with a few rugged oldies in their forties and fifties) working his fields and protecting his land. I think all of us can imagine what kind of tact it would require for a weathered and tattered serf to ask such lord for a favour as basic as enough food to see his family through the winter. The petitions and attitudes of subservience and humility with which we are supposed to approach God are the kind of attitude with which these serfs had to approach their lords if they hoped ever to get their needs met. Even then, even if they groveled in the dirt, there was no guarantee. So if god is a rash young lord with over-active hormones and the absolute conviction that he is totally invinsible, begging and pleading in all humility and subervience for the basics of life makes a great deal of sense. Excusing him for not answering prayer makes sense, too. That's just the way lords are. They have important items like next week's hunt on the brain. Can't expect them to value an infant who will probably not survive childhood. The infant mortality rate was very high--perhaps one out of three live births could be expected to survive the first seven years of childhood when conditions were good. Life was short, brutal, and nasty; survival was for the fittest only--literally. In present-day Western society where a man normally reaches the peak of his career and power sometime after the age of thirty, things work very differently. We expect mature and fair dealing, a careful weighing of the options over the long term. For example, saving an infant from an early grave could translate into another worker on the land. Providing adequate food, clothing, shelter, and healthcare can pay dividends far down the road. Not to mention that a big value of our present society is quality life. Even the physically unfit can, with a cheery and loving attitude, contribute to the quality of life for the people around them. We expect God to do at least as well as this. A god who doesn't is not, in my opinion, worth his salt. Thus, it would seem that there has been social progress on the human level in the past thousand years. But god still expects us to grovel in the dirt with no assurance that our prayers will be heard or answered. Sounds to me like a strapping young medieval manor lord at approximately the age of twenty, drunk with power and pre-occupied with next week's hunt. That's not what he's cracked up to be, is it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts