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The American Vision

Azure Knight

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The following message I sent was Llewlyn and Lightbearers posts that I quoted, do not give me credit for them, I merely changed a few words to say you instead of they, so it would make sense. The bolded text is their reply ot the email.




I like this video and support its dissemination.


Thanks. Obviously you know how to use sarcasm too.


The video obviously lacks any kind of foundation in fact or logic and

simply presents paranoid scare tactics. Anyone with any ability to

think will realize that Dawkins' words are taken out of context. You

Christians who are predisposed to misunderstand will nevertheless

realize at some level that you are being unfair and prejudicial.


Then please show me where the logic is wrong. You do the very same thing by pointing out that “alot of Christians endorsed and praised Nazism when it was around and a lot of Christians spoke out against the Civil Rights movements, like Jerry Falwell.” By your own logic are you now claiming that these individuals somehow prove Christianity wrong? Christianity has an absolute standard by which to measure the “rightness and wrongness” of its so-called adherents. Atheism has nothing remotely close. In an atheistic universe there is no such thing as “fact or logic.” In a world of “blind pitiless indifference” that is ever-changing and evolving, what leads you to believe that logic and facts remain static? Where do they come from anyway? They are metaphysical in nature. How can you taste touch see or smell them in a purely empirical world of random chance processes?


Since you obviously count yourself among those with an ability to think, I would ask you how we have taken Dawkin’s words out of context. If this were true, at least according to my worldview, I would in fact be wrong to do this. This is a violation of the Ninth commandment. What atheistic standard can you appeal to that we should not “bear false witness against others?” And please don’t tell me its obvious and “anyone who can think” knows this. This is not an answer, it is what we call begging the question. And anyway, I would agree because God’s law is written on your heart whether you like it or not. But where do your doctrines of “fairness and prejudice” come from in your random-mutating galaxy?


So, in the end, a video like this can only hurt Christianity, so I

fully support it! It demonstrates that Christianity stands on nothing

but bluff and bluster.


You are telling us Christians don't believe in Reason, rationality or

reality. This explains everything!


It does nothing of the sort, you heard what you wanted to hear. “Reason” for Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, and Robespierre is nothing more than a common name for their deity. In fact, as part of the celebration antics during the short duration of Robespierre’s Cult of the Supreme Being, they paraded a woman dressed up as a Greek “goddess” named “Reason” and paraded her through the streets to the destination of the Notre Dame cathedral where she sat down as the “new god.” Christians understand reason and rationality to be gifts from a God Who is true by His very nature. He created and ordained the order that we see around us. Because humans are created in His image, we are reasonable and rational too. You want to pretend that reason and rationality are somehow”natural laws” and hold other people accountable to them, but you have no way of showing or proving from the natural world itself what exactly the laws of logic and reason are. You want to say that we are being illogical, so there must be “right and wrong” ways of using logic and reason. I’m just asking for an atheistic justification for it.


Edit: Oh and I love how they show Nazis and the Southern during the Civil Rights movements. Alot of Christians endorsed and praised Nazism when it was around and a lot of Christians spoke out against the Civil Rights movements, like Jerry Falwell

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Did you expect anything better from a Jerk for Jesus?

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When the Christian says that the atheist has no ground for objecting to a Christian's morality, the Christian is employing a tactic from what they call "Presuppositional Apologetics." I actually tend to agree with the Christian that atheists have difficulty with the issue of "ethics" because Atheists don't believe in supernatural ethical realities. I myself am a Platonist and thus have a position from which I can easily criticize the immorality, ignorance, and general viciousness of Christians.

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