Jun Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I should really put this in the "Misconceptions about Buddhism thread," but I'm sure there are other spiritual practices that other's here practice that would have some similar thoughts. These days people are looking for spiritual teachers who look, act, and speak like..... well, spiritual teachers. Many would rather have the answers to all their questions handed to them on a silver plater - from a "Fully Enlightened Being." You know the type, they are above human infallibilty and can be found in the Yellow Pages or on the Internet guaranteeing to pass on their "Enlightenment" to any who pay for it. These individuals are truly remarkable, having been elevated beyond mere mortal life and worry, they are no longer able to speak colloquially but rather speak in poems and riddles or in stinted semi-Yoda speak. Children and animals simply adore them and they can do no wrong. They have all the answers to all the questions of life and will pass them onto anyone for a simple fee. They get invited to give talks on things as diverse as psychology and global warming, and sexual relationships. They are usually found travelling about conducting seminars and attracting the rich and famous with their books and promises of "Enlightenment." People actually do go out looking for their spiritual teachers based upon the stereotypical image of what a spiritual teacher should look like. If one is Asian it helps a lot. Many expect the average Asian to know all there is to know about their own cultural traditions and spiritual practices. I could easily take a Chinese waiter from the local restaurant and dress him in robes and people would believe anything he says! People want gurus! A European guy in jeans and a T-shirt, no matter his training or teaching ability, is not given a second glance. The fact is, if one is choosing a Zen Buddhist teacher expecting him to give you answers - you are going to be disappointed. Because there simply aren't any answers in Buddhism. Buddhism is not like the theistic religions that claim to have the answers to life handed down from on high. If there are any answers to be found at all, you will have to find them yourself. It is hard work and it is sometimes so daunting that many give up. The most I can do as a Zen teacher is help someone out by giving a prod here and there. I have many who come along to practice expecting me to speak like Yoda or Kwai Chang Caine. They want me to tell them how to behave and give them answers to all their lifes problems. If you come across a person who claims to be a "Fully Enlightened Being" who can give you all the answers or make you a "Fully Enlightened Being" - RUN THE OTHER WAY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Bob Thurman (Uma's dad) says much the same thing... and he's Tibetan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 Bob Thurman (Uma's dad) says much the same thing... and he's Tibetan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Who says wisdom isn't eternal? The Buddha only said he was 'awake'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Life provides the lessons, teachers and texts only provide us with the language. One of the things that keeps me studying Zen is straight talk. Just lay out your view in plain language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Pagan book market isn't much better. Seems like every writer needs a name like <substance> <animal><animal>, or some other nature-sounding thing for credibility. This is not anything unique to Buddhist-like paths. Some people just have to have an image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 so a Buddhist Pagan would be Geshe Amber WolfMoose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 That could definately work, though Kuso DoingItWrong could work through the whole Native-American-sounding thing. And I am pretty sure that someone going around calling themselves a "buddhist pagan" or "someOtherFaith pagan" has missed the point by about 1.2 Pearl Harbors, unless the systems are completely mutually exclusive (Christian Pagan, for instance) in which case the have missed the point by about 2.6 PHs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Pagan book market isn't much better. Seems like every writer needs a name like <substance> <animal><animal>, or some other nature-sounding thing for credibility. This is not anything unique to Buddhist-like paths. Some people just have to have an image. So very true - at times, people can be too caught up on image and forget all about the substance. Especially ironic in regards to Buddhism, a religion that encourages one to dig beneath the surface and not rely on superficialities. Form trumps function, to many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 And I am pretty sure that someone going around calling themselves a "buddhist pagan" or "someOtherFaith pagan" has missed the point by about 1.2 Pearl Harbors... Hey, I resemble that remark. I'll just sit here and breathe and ponder the impermanence of the Æsir and Vanir... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him. Or so I've been told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Posted July 21, 2007 Author Share Posted July 21, 2007 What's the name of greatest Zen teacher? M. T. Ness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 And I am pretty sure that someone going around calling themselves a "buddhist pagan" or "someOtherFaith pagan" has missed the point by about 1.2 Pearl Harbors... Hey, I resemble that remark. I'll just sit here and breathe and ponder the impermanence of the Æsir and Vanir... Part of their charm is that they're not eternal... at least for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Speaking of talking like Yoda or Kwai Chang Caine, I've found that there are some people who feel that the Buddhist experience can be summed up in a single phrase. Unfortunately it's a stereotype that my propensity toward one-liners does nothing to help. Blue Giant makes an interesting point, people do expect a certain image. I think there are certain "masters" that strive to present this image to the rest of the world. But does this not go against the very teachings we practice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Yes and no... From my cram reading, Gautama pretty well did what he had to do to get his teachings across, so perhaps the robes and Yoda like speaking by some people needed is... Personally, I'd have probelms keeping a straight face... Western teachers who work for me; Gil Fronsdal, Jack Cornfield and Stephen Batchelor. Why do people change their name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 I often wonder about that myself, Gramps. Perhaps Jun could shed more light on the idea of Dharma names. I'm guessing that it is a symbolic rebirth into the Sangha. I've heard that craft names in paganism are taken out of personal meaning. Personally, I carry the title Rev (I'm actually ordained through the ULC ) as a reminder of my own devotion to the Way rather than a symbol of authority or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 One of the things that keeps me studying Zen is straight talk. Just lay out your view in plain language. More and more I am growing to appreciate the art of plain language Rev R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Posted July 22, 2007 Author Share Posted July 22, 2007 Perhaps Jun could shed more light on the idea of Dharma names. When one takes the precepts they are given a Dharma name by their teacher or by the Sangha. It differs with traditions. Some get two names some get one, some change them later on to reflect a refreshing of their teachings. There is no importance to be placed on it, it's just a name. Just symbolic. My own Dharma name is Genshin. But I prefer to use my first name, Junpei, that's how everybody knows me. Japanese recieve Dharma names posthumously at their funerals and the Dharma name is written on the funeral tablet (a little sign that is placed on the family altar). The title for teacher in Zen is Rõshi (老師), which means roughly "old teacher" (not referring to age actually). Zen teachers, as do I, usually use the title Reverend when corresponding in English. I think it was Suzuki Rõshi or Philip Kapleau Rõshi who started that; to distinguish Zen teachers from other Buddhist teachers. In Japan a Buddhist teacher is usually addressed as Oshosan (san is honourific) which means priest, or sensei which is used for teachers and accomplished people no matter what they teach. Tibetan "Buddhism" has many titles for teachers as they have different "levels" of ability. In Thailand a teacher is known as Ajahn which means "teacher." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 More and more I am growing to appreciate the art of plain language Rev R. Indeed. A lot of folks try to read too much into things. Particularly those who try to boil Buddhism down into soundbites. A lot of the time things mean exactly what they say. most of my net friends just call me rev. From my cram reading, Gautama pretty well did what he had to do to get his teachings across, so perhaps the robes and Yoda like speaking by some people needed is... Perfectly normal this statement was, the first time I read it. You might be right Gramps, some people probably need that iconic figure and the formality. Some people don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 I've heard that craft names in paganism are taken out of personal meaning. Personally, I carry the title Rev (I'm actually ordained through the ULC ) as a reminder of my own devotion to the Way rather than a symbol of authority or expertise. Generally, it's seen as such. Taking "craft names" (no matter the Pagan path being followed, here) is just one more psychological tool to help the practitioner along his or her way. A form of psyching oneself up, of creating an aesthetic conducive to one's chosen path, and naturally full of esoteric meaning to the one who holds it. Some variant of "wolf-heart" or a wolfish appellation in general is mine, though I am not generally known by other than my birth name. Others may get it, others may not, but its meaning to me is all that matters. More and more I am growing to appreciate the art of plain language Rev R. One of Zen's crowning jewels, methinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 One of the things that keeps me studying Zen is straight talk. Just lay out your view in plain language.More and more I am growing to appreciate the art of plain language Rev R. Did Buddha try to Buddha be? He did not, and nor should we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaiDan Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 One of the things that keeps me studying Zen is straight talk. Just lay out your view in plain language.More and more I am growing to appreciate the art of plain language Rev R. Did Buddha try to Buddha be? He did not, and nor should we. Now that little quote might be quite elementary to you and to me, Jun, but it's far from plainspeak to someone who's been bearing a cross their whole life, or suffering the burden of sin to be pure unto the blood of the lamb or what what not not. To a TRUE christian to say such a thing would be heard as trite and irreverent. Such a person would not be able to make the distinction between the cute yoda-speak and a statement such as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Did Buddha try to Buddha be? He did not, and nor should we. how much more plain could you be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 It's Buddhism, Rupert Bear style... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sage Nabooru Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 The reason "gurus" are so popular is the same reason that Christianity and Islam are so popular: it's a helluva lot easier to have someone else do the thinking for you. And how much more impressive if they can add the trendy "Zen" word to their title! Or how about "Father" or "Yogi" or "spiritual developmentalist"? The fact that they have done little or nothing to earn these epithets and simply applied them to themselves to increase book and audio-tape sales is irrelevant because they're obviously enlightened, as evidenced by their self-affirmed greater authority over spiritual matters (and the fact that they spell "not", "naught"). Instead of a Bible, we have the brilliant mutterings of a silk-clad master. And his is the word of God. To decide to start out on a spiritual path of true self-realization, to discover all spiritual truths through your own effort, is a difficult and arduous journey. Let me tell you, at times I find myself pulled to this book or that teacher to follow as an infallible guideline just because doing it on your own, with your own judgement and feeling and soul-searching, can be almost impossible at times. So much simpler to just let somebody else do the tough stuff for you. Why think your way around the most snagging of spiritual issues, spending a lifetime perfecting your own gut senses, when you can just let Grand Master Asian-Sounding Name decide your next move? And you can still tell yourself that you're being open-minded and independent because Grand Master says he does not discriminate by religion and that anybody can play along, so long as they accept his word as authoritative and final. Then there are those genuine spiritual teachers who through no effort of their own towards that kind of cultish behavior gain followers convinced of their singular inspiration anyway. In fact, you don't even need to be a spiritual guru to have that happen to you, you could just be a celebrity with a spiritual bent. Their followers get it even easier, because not only do you get your spiritual cues from your idol, but also fashion and entertainment choices. Let's meditate on Angelina Jolie's Asian tattoo while we watch Gia, shall we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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