Christians In Germany Having A Solemn "celebration" Today

[Thurisaz]

Quotation marks used because personally I connect the word "celebration" with something joyful instinctively...

 

...I may despise the jebus cult's doctrine universally, but today is one of those days again when I cannot but nod my head in respect toward my fellow Germans, inasmuch as they are mainstream christians.

 

How many of the cultists over in the US have memorial ceremonies today?

 

Somehow I guess this is another damn good demonstration of "the many faces of christianity"... am I right or wrong? Do "your cultists" join the mourning predominantly, or can't they be bothered to mourn such an unimportant thing like some lives lost to WMDs when there's so many Filthy Faggots™ and Ebil Satanic Baby-Killers & Ebilushionists™ still alive?

[Piprus]

No ceremonies planned today here in the US, despite the fact that it was us who dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

 

No connection with xianity in any event. It was simply war, and that happened even before I was born, so I had nothing to do with any of it. Not the rise of nazism in Germany, not the Holocaust, not Imperial Japan...it's just history to me. My hope is that it doesn't happen again. I don't necessarily connect the horrors of the first half of the 20th century with xianity. The very same could happen with Islam at the forefront. War and genocide is a social phenomenon, not a religious one. Religion in such cases is just a smokescreen used to justify the atrocities.

[Thurisaz]

Didn't want to claim there was a connection between the bombs and the cult... just that over here acceptance of christian doctrine makes many people desire peace instead of the hatemongering that's so rampant in your part of the world. Same "jebus" name, so totally different results... somewhat funny, no?

[Grandpa Harley]

There almost certainly will be memorials here, and in the states... It's not something the news services pick up with any aplomb...

 

Having said that, the Japanese haven't exactly been forward in stepping up to the hockey over WWII

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6263812.stm

 

 

BTW, if you appreciate the gesture their making in Germany, a book you may like

 

The Good German of Nanking: the war diaries of John Rabe by Erwin Wickert

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rabe

 

something the wiki misses... he was declared a Living Buddha...

 

http://www.moreorless.au.com/heroes/rabe.html

[Grandpa Harley]

Seems there are a good few Hiroshima Day ceremonies and the like

 

http://tinyurl.com/2qhf46

[Jun]

The Japanese were already negotiating surrender when the Yanks dropped the A-bomb. The dropping of the bomb had more to do with showing the Soviet Union what the Yanks were capable of.

[מה טבו]

There are probably peace groups in the state holding Hiroshima day memorials. It's never really a widespread thing. It's not really arrogance. Americans (in general) just don't care too much about history. Most of us memorize the war stories in school, and that's about it. Something about this country - as a nation, we don't have memories. The great events of a generation are often two generations later just dates in a textbook, to be memorized then forgotten by schoolchildren. This generation's grandchildren probably won't be able to tell you in what year the 9/11 attack occurred.

 

Not to deny that America does have a disturbing streak of religious nationalism though. There are plenty of Christians here who believe this is Gawd's country, and the best country in the world. These folks would never take suggestion that anything America ever did in war was wrong, except possibly surrender in Vietnam. (Civil rights, on the other hand - they'll bitch about that until they run out of air.) It exists - it's just not the primary reason why Hiroshima isn't widely memorialized here. Hell, half of us don't know when Pearl Harbor day is.

[Grandpa Harley]

This is why America is a third world country in my opinion... I'd accuse it of being culturally 2 dimensional, but it implies a depth that it doesn't have...

 

Generally, the picnic at Mai Li is all but unknown... yet most Americans know what the dirty Brits did to Dresden...

[Thurisaz]

Thanks for all those replies pals

 

You will remember that I asked whether reich cultists will predominantly mourn or not, of course... just to stress that again. I don't doubt that at least some among your christians will remember the fallen of that day... the percentage is the question here, really

[Warrior_of_god]

Generally, the picnic at Mai Li is all but unknown... yet most Americans know what the dirty Brits did to Dresden...

I doubt that. I had to learn about it on my own time, was not even covered in my schooling. Besides, the US 8th Air Force (under the command of Doolittle) helped burn Dresden to the ground too, granted it was at Churchill's behest Most Americans who know probably only know because of Slaughterhouse Five.

 

The Japanese were already negotiating surrender when the Yanks dropped the A-bomb.

The Emperor was but several Hard-line generals didnt want to, one even went so far as to take over the Palace...before being surrounded by the entire Eastern District Army and threatened with a lot of death. The whole bombing was a sad event however it was needed, from a US standpoint, as it was better than losing millions of lives in an invasion.

[Luke Wolf]

I'm sure there are some out there, somewhere.

Honestly though, it is such a petty thing here in the states, you are going to learn when the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima by watching the History Channel much quicker than you will from any days of mourning, fellow countrymen, or anything else.

However, I'm sure if a nation were to not take some time to mourn on 9/11 over the World Trade Center attacks, the average American would blow a gasket if they found out.

[Jun]

The Emperor was but several Hard-line generals didnt want to, one even went so far as to take over the Palace...before being surrounded by the entire Eastern District Army and threatened with a lot of death. The whole bombing was a sad event however it was needed, from a US standpoint, as it was better than losing millions of lives in an invasion.

 

The U.S. had no need to drop an A-bomb on an already surrendering Japan. An invasion would have been met by very, very little resistance.

[Casey]

The Japanese were already negotiating surrender when the Yanks dropped the A-bomb. The dropping of the bomb had more to do with showing the Soviet Union what the Yanks were capable of.

 

According to a History Channel documentary I watched last night, the Russians were invited into Manchuria by Truman in case the Atomic Bomb failed (to detonate). Certainly it had been tested at Los Alamos, and in theory it should have worked, but they said the same of the Titanic.

 

Had the bomb failed, Truman would have probably cozened the Russians into invading the Japanese Home Islands. They had been allowed to take Berlin in order to blunt the Russian spearhead; what if Old Joe had taken it into his head to keep going, drive for the Channel Coast just as A. Hitler Esq had done in 1940? When that had been got over with, the Russians stopped, looking to take their profits and guard their winnings. Thus, had the bomb failed, Stalin's men would have been the perfect patsies.

 

Not many people know it, but a large reserve Army was being trained in the US at that time, just in case Stalin suddenly turned rogue. Allowing the Russians to take Berlin was, one might suppose, an attempt to buy that Army some time in case it was needed.

Casey

[Jun]

The Japanese were already negotiating surrender when the Yanks dropped the A-bomb. The dropping of the bomb had more to do with showing the Soviet Union what the Yanks were capable of.

 

According to a History Channel documentary I watched last night, the Russians were invited into Manchuria by Truman in case the Atomic Bomb failed (to detonate). Certainly it had been tested at Los Alamos, and in theory it should have worked, but they said the same of the Titanic.

 

Had the bomb failed, Truman would have probably cozened the Russians into invading the Japanese Home Islands. They had been allowed to take Berlin in order to blunt the Russian spearhead; what if Old Joe had taken it into his head to keep going, drive for the Channel Coast just as A. Hitler Esq had done in 1940? When that had been got over with, the Russians stopped, looking to take their profits and guard their winnings. Thus, had the bomb failed, Stalin's men would have been the perfect patsies.

 

Not many people know it, but a large reserve Army was being trained in the US at that time, just in case Stalin suddenly turned rogue. Allowing the Russians to take Berlin was, one might suppose, an attempt to buy that Army some time in case it was needed.

Casey

 

Interesting, thanks.

[Warrior_of_god]

The U.S. had no need to drop an A-bomb on an already surrendering Japan. An invasion would have been met by very, very little resistance.

The Japanese Army was giving civilians fliers on how to conduct gorilla warfare, they had pamphlets saying that they should attack US soldiers with pitchforks if they could. When we took Okinawa, Japanese civilians threw themselves off cliffs because we had taken a peice of what they considered sacred ground, part of the Home Islands. An invasion would have been met with a lot of resistance.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

From Wiki:

Casualty predictions varied widely but were extremely high for both sides: depending on the degree to which Japanese civilians resisted the invasion, estimates ran into the millions for Allied casualties[1] and the tens of millions for Japanese casualties.

 

Also From the Wiki:

 

* "That operations in this area will be opposed not only by the available organized military forces of the Empire, but also by a fanatically hostile population."

* "That approximately three (3) hostile divisions will be disposed in Southern KYUSHU and an additional three (3) in Northern KYUSHU at initiation of the OLYMPIC operation."

* "That total hostile forces committed against KYUSHU operations will not exceed eight (8) to ten (10) divisions and that this level will be speedily attained."

* "That approximately twenty-one (21) hostile divisions, including depot divisions, will be on HONSHU at initiation of that operation Coronet and that fourteen (14) of these divisions may be employed in the KANTO PLAIN area."

* "That the enemy may withdraw his land-based air forces to the Asiatic Mainland for protection from our neutralizing attacks. That under such circumstances he can possibly amass from 2,000 to 2,500 planes in that area by exercise of rigid economy, and that this force can operate against KYUSHU landings by staging through homeland fields."

 

The Japanese Navy also was planning a surprise, they had built some of the largest subs in the world. Why? Because they carried a plane. They would surround our invasion fleet, launch their plane and then dive to attack our carriers.

 

Japan also had many hidden aircraft in caves and in mountains, up to 5,000 of them. These consisted of Jets and rocket aircraft also. Those aircraft were not part of the more than 10,000 that the Army and Navy already had ready.

 

Japanese Naval forces:

The IJN also had about 100 Kōryū-class midget submarines, 250 smaller Kairyū-class midget submarines, and 1,000 Kaiten manned torpedoes. The Imperial Japanese Army had 800 Shin'yō suicide boats.

 

 

On the southern-most Japanese island, the Japanese had built up six divisions and more were on the way, eventually they (Allied Intel) found that they had ten divisions in the South. This added about 600,000 men to the defensees there.

 

Fron Wiki under section titled Estimated Casualties:

Because the U.S. military planners assumed "that operations in this area will be opposed not only by the available organized military forces of the Empire, but also by a fanatically hostile population"

Asking the US to invade Japan would have been asking us to double our casualty rates, the whole war cost us a million casualties, less than half of those being deaths. When weighing the prospect of carpet bombing our men a road inland using nuclear weapons, at a time when radiation was not understood, having much higher casualties because of a lack of knowledge or dropping two bombs on Japanese industrial and military targets, the choice is simple. The civilian casualties were regrettable but these weren't small bombs we dropped. Perhaps a bigger conventional bomb would have been better?

 

EDIT: there is also evidence to suggest that six days after Japan surrendered they had plans to launch a dirty bomb attack on LA with several aircraft launched from their 400 foot subs. However, some people claim that the Japanese actually detonated a nuclear bomb. After some digging I found a documentary from the History channel that claims it is true. My knowledge of Japanese atomic research is very limited but with what they did have at the time of surrender, it is somewhat likely that they had some sort of fissionable device. The site is here. The evidence for the documentary is unfortunately fragmented at best.

[Grandpa Harley]

TBH, the attitude of the Japanese to what they got up to in WW2 is akin to those who deny the holocaust... Nanking didn't happen, Unit 11 never existed... burma railway? It was a holiday, honest! it's lies spread by the gaijin...

[Jun]

The U.S. had no need to drop an A-bomb on an already surrendering Japan. An invasion would have been met by very, very little resistance.

The Japanese Army was giving civilians fliers on how to conduct gorilla warfare, they had pamphlets saying that they should attack US soldiers with pitchforks if they could. When we took Okinawa, Japanese civilians threw themselves off cliffs because we had taken a peice of what they considered sacred ground, part of the Home Islands. An invasion would have been met with a lot of resistance.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

From Wiki:

Casualty predictions varied widely but were extremely high for both sides: depending on the degree to which Japanese civilians resisted the invasion, estimates ran into the millions for Allied casualties[1] and the tens of millions for Japanese casualties.

 

Also From the Wiki:

 

* "That operations in this area will be opposed not only by the available organized military forces of the Empire, but also by a fanatically hostile population."

* "That approximately three (3) hostile divisions will be disposed in Southern KYUSHU and an additional three (3) in Northern KYUSHU at initiation of the OLYMPIC operation."

* "That total hostile forces committed against KYUSHU operations will not exceed eight (8) to ten (10) divisions and that this level will be speedily attained."

* "That approximately twenty-one (21) hostile divisions, including depot divisions, will be on HONSHU at initiation of that operation Coronet and that fourteen (14) of these divisions may be employed in the KANTO PLAIN area."

* "That the enemy may withdraw his land-based air forces to the Asiatic Mainland for protection from our neutralizing attacks. That under such circumstances he can possibly amass from 2,000 to 2,500 planes in that area by exercise of rigid economy, and that this force can operate against KYUSHU landings by staging through homeland fields."

 

The Japanese Navy also was planning a surprise, they had built some of the largest subs in the world. Why? Because they carried a plane. They would surround our invasion fleet, launch their plane and then dive to attack our carriers.

 

Japan also had many hidden aircraft in caves and in mountains, up to 5,000 of them. These consisted of Jets and rocket aircraft also. Those aircraft were not part of the more than 10,000 that the Army and Navy already had ready.

 

Japanese Naval forces:

The IJN also had about 100 Kōryū-class midget submarines, 250 smaller Kairyū-class midget submarines, and 1,000 Kaiten manned torpedoes. The Imperial Japanese Army had 800 Shin'yō suicide boats.

 

 

On the southern-most Japanese island, the Japanese had built up six divisions and more were on the way, eventually they (Allied Intel) found that they had ten divisions in the South. This added about 600,000 men to the defensees there.

 

Fron Wiki under section titled Estimated Casualties:

Because the U.S. military planners assumed "that operations in this area will be opposed not only by the available organized military forces of the Empire, but also by a fanatically hostile population"

Asking the US to invade Japan would have been asking us to double our casualty rates, the whole war cost us a million casualties, less than half of those being deaths. When weighing the prospect of carpet bombing our men a road inland using nuclear weapons, at a time when radiation was not understood, having much higher casualties because of a lack of knowledge or dropping two bombs on Japanese industrial and military targets, the choice is simple. The civilian casualties were regrettable but these weren't small bombs we dropped. Perhaps a bigger conventional bomb would have been better?

 

[Grandpa Harley]

Which means?

[Warrior_of_god]

We werent the Evil Empire blowing up Alderann. We used a tool we had disposal of to end a war that was costing millions of lives. If we shouldnt have nuked those 2 cities, then what should have we done?

[Unknowing1]

Quotation marks used because personally I connect the word "celebration" with something joyful instinctively...

 

...I may despise the jebus cult's doctrine universally, but today is one of those days again when I cannot but nod my head in respect toward my fellow Germans, inasmuch as they are mainstream christians.

 

How many of the cultists over in the US have memorial ceremonies today?

 

Somehow I guess this is another damn good demonstration of "the many faces of christianity"... am I right or wrong? Do "your cultists" join the mourning predominantly, or can't they be bothered to mourn such an unimportant thing like some lives lost to WMDs when there's so many Filthy Faggots and Ebil Satanic Baby-Killers & Ebilushionists still alive?

 

 

The majority of the churches around here ignored it. I did hear about some churches having "special" services to offer prayer for the people in Minnesota but they were few and far between.

[The Sage Nabooru]

As far as the US gov is concerned, and most American organizations, every single act committed by the government or the military against another state or people was entirely justified and nobody was hurt except those who truly deserved it.

 

I personally would expect more of a "Japan Liberation Day" of celebration and parades to commemorate the time we freed the poor Japanese people from their evil overlords who died in the bomb attack. Kind of like when Luke Skywalker blew up the Death Star. Except in Star Wars, we know the space station was an entirely military operation run by the evil Galactic Empire; in WWII we are simply taught and assume that our bombings were good and beneficial to everyone involved.