Guest antitheist Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Hello everyone. I'm antitheist. I'm practicing debate and attempting to refine/build my arguments by debating a Christian 1-on-1. I could use some advice at this point. I'll address a few predicaments in the dispute. Most Christians seem to follow the 10 Commandments of the Old Testament but not Deuteronomy 22:22-29, where it instructs a society to operate in such a way that women return to rapists. My stance was that they're cherry picking. Their stance is that it's intended for ancient civilizations. What is the evidence for our stances? I argued that the Bible promotes prejudice because it says the Jews are God's chosen people. Is it not the descendants of Jacob that are to be looked at as a product of sin, and thus the holy lands are for the Jews? The person cited Romans 2:28-29. How do you recommend responding? Should I argue the inhumanity of circumcision or do I have a leg to stand on with my original stance? Do I have any real argument by saying the Bible condemns interracial sex/marriage? What about homosexuality? Does anyone know of any New Testament verses against homosexuality? I know they exist but I can't seem to find any. The more citations the merrier. Thanks for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Hello everyone. I'm antitheist. I'm practicing debate and attempting to refine/build my arguments by debating a Christian 1-on-1. I could use some advice at this point. I'll address a few predicaments in the dispute. Most Christians seem to follow the 10 Commandments of the Old Testament but not Deuteronomy 22:22-29, where it instructs a society to operate in such a way that women return to rapists. My stance was that they're cherry picking. Their stance is that it's intended for ancient civilizations. What is the evidence for our stances? Which 10 commandments? The ones in Exodus 20 that were on the stones that Moses later smashed or the ones in Exodus 34 that God replaced that were supposedly on the first ones, but they are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antitheist Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 I really don't know. Isn't there a standard set of commandments that most believers follow? The main focus on that point is whether Deuteronomy 22:22-29 is meant to apply to present day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centauri Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Hello everyone. I'm antitheist. I'm practicing debate and attempting to refine/build my arguments by debating a Christian 1-on-1. I could use some advice at this point. I'll address a few predicaments in the dispute. Most Christians seem to follow the 10 Commandments of the Old Testament but not Deuteronomy 22:22-29, where it instructs a society to operate in such a way that women return to rapists. My stance was that they're cherry picking. Their stance is that it's intended for ancient civilizations. What is the evidence for our stances? I argued that the Bible promotes prejudice because it says the Jews are God's chosen people. Is it not the descendants of Jacob that are to be looked at as a product of sin, and thus the holy lands are for the Jews? The person cited Romans 2:28-29. How do you recommend responding? Should I argue the inhumanity of circumcision or do I have a leg to stand on with my original stance? Do I have any real argument by saying the Bible condemns interracial sex/marriage? What about homosexuality? Does anyone know of any New Testament verses against homosexuality? I know they exist but I can't seem to find any. The more citations the merrier. Thanks for any help. I'll try to address most of this, with a warning that you should be prepared for a landslide of rationalizations and claims that the text doesn't mean what it says. They are cherry picking, which is quite common among believers. Christians have told me over and over that God gave humanity moral absolutes. However, if some laws go out of style, then that claim is bogus. The food law in Lev 11 is a good example of thus. If eating pork and shellfish is an abomination to the Lord, then why isn't that moral absolute followed today? Believers will tell people that Jesus ended the law, and they rely on the Jewish apostate Paul for support on this claim. However, Paul is refuted by Isa 8:20 and many other verses. According to Jesus all the law was to be keet and taught until heaven and earth passed away (see Matt 5:18-20). The law, with all its statutes and commandments is everlasting, not something that goes out of style, or gets put aside when a messiah arrives. Contrary to what Paul preached in verses like Rom 10:4, a messiah is not the end of the law. The expected messiah will usher in an era of great compliance with the law(Ezek 37:24). Psalms 119 is an entire lengthy chapter that praises the law and its power. Psa 119:152,160 Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever. Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. The law is perfect, converting the soul and providing wisdom. Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The law is not to be tinkered with by adding or subtracting from it. Deut 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. In the new covenant, God will put his law into the hearts of the people. There is nothing in the new covenant that says any laws would be removed(Jer 31:31-34). Jer 31:31-34 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. With regard to Rom 2:28-29, The Hebrew scriptures refute Paul's sophistry. The law stood in Paul's way, for he sought to introduce a new system of salvation based on faith in a human sacrifice. Paul couldn't have salvation coming from the law, so he attempted to downplay it. Ezek 18:20-27 clearly states that salvation comes from repenting and keeping the law of God, not from belief in an invalid sin sacrifice called "Jesus". Psa 119:155 reinforces the law and condemns Paul. Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes. Gentiles that want to become part of God's fold are to embrace the same covenant that Jews are bound by. That includes circumcision, obeying the dietary law, the Sabbath, along with the rest of the statutes. Isa 56:3-7 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. It would seem that interracial marriage may forbidden in some cases. Ezra 10:2 Then Shecaniah son of Jehiel, one of the descendants of Elam, said to Ezra, "We have been unfaithful to our God by marrying foreign women from the peoples around us. But in spite of this, there is still hope for Israel. Neh 13:27 Must we hear now that you too are doing all this terrible wickedness and are being unfaithful to our God by marrying foreign women?" Homosexual condemnation in the NT: Rom 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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