Ex-christian Exodus

[R. S. Martin]

Finally, I've noticed that Ex-Christians who fled or were burned by all this know Evangelical lingo, code words, and expectations. They are as good at giving their "Ex-Christian" testimony as they were giving the Christian one. And they anticipate how Christians will respond. This may prevent honest reflection and dialouge.

 

Kevin H., are you still watching this thread? If so, I've got a question for you. Why would all of this prevent honest reflection and dialogue?

 

I am the former horse and buggy Mennonite someone referred to in this thread, so I am an outsider to this culture you describe. Being an outsider to the code-words, Evangelical lingo, and expectations sometimes causes communication problems because I don't know what others mean by certain words or behaviourisms. People here are really good about it and explain. However, this is the reason I am asking why you think having a common culture could prevent honest reflection and dialogue. I will appreciate an explanation. Thank you.

 

PS. I looked at your profile. I see you are into theology. So am I. I am working on my Masters. What are you doing?

[Aqua Kitty]

This is a country of Christendom. Unfortunately, our affluence and marketing saavy produces religious theme-parks, vacation cruises, guady TV shows, Christian dentist offices complete with a fish on the drill, restaurants where the waitress gives her testimony before taking your order ("I'll have the Noah's Ark Platter"), Born Again Used Cars, Maranatha Insurance, Christian Brothers Auto Repair, Christian Donuts, Christian Day at Six Flags, Creation Museums, Christian Diet Plans, and sloganeering T-shirts. Everything I just described is real.

 

You forgot the best one:

 

 

[Kalidasa]

I'll give you one reason why I left, entirely aside from realising Christianity is a load of shit.

 

Stupidity.

 

In my opinion, 95% of humanity is inherently stupid. And stupidity is not something I tolerate in any measure. What I have found in my almost eight years as an ex-Christian is that most Christians are idiots. There are probably some very intelligent ones out there, but they're eclipsed by the twits.

 

Let me give you an example. Say there's a room in which one hundred people are gathered. 95 of those people will be mindless drones - in other words, Christians. The remaining five are the ex-Christians who are banging on the door and yelling to be let out.

 

And the reason why Christians are idiots? They aren't encouraged to think. Being a Christian means you have to switch off your brain.

[Guest open eyes]

Honestly, it is really frustrating that Christianity is our faces all the time. I'm so sick of hearing about it in the media. It makes me wonder is most of America that brainwashed? Are we heading into a new dark age? All the creationists really need to wake up. I write for an online column, and a lot of the people that submit are super brain washed Christians. Halloween was such a controversy for these people. Many of them were writing articles saying how it is bad for Christians to celebrate Halloween because it was evil. It was unbelievable! Halloween is my favorite holiday and has always been. I went into a rage at the stupidity of these people. I wrote a really bitchy rant that I would probably get sued for sharing. Unfortunately as a recovering Catholic, I am plagued with guilt and am always afraid of offending people. (that is what I need to get over) I grew up in New England most of my town was Catholic, but there was a church downtown known as "The Crazy Church." (As if the Catholic church isn't crazy enough) It was called "Faith Living Church" and the people who went there were like the Christians in the media. I read somewhere that like 60% of Americans are now Evangelical. Has a large majority of the nation really bought into this marketing scheme? Have so many people really gone crazy? I certaintly hope not. Is that just what the media wants us to think? Is it all an illusion constructed by the media to try keep people under control? I have actually read in other places that there are more and more people that are spiritual and not religious. I really hope the latter is true. America needs to wake up to the fact that religion has always been in bed with politics as a way to control people.

[Guest Grizzle]

And the reason why Christians are idiots? They aren't encouraged to think. Being a Christian means you have to switch off your brain.

 

I've been attending a xtian school for the last year and a half, and I was formerly a religion major. Fyrefly's statement is entirely correct. In all the times that I've gone through and done biblical exegesis, or see others do exegesis, it's on the oh-so-lovey-duvey stuff... I've never, ever seen somebody go through and take a detailed look at all of the crap that doesn't make sense, and if they have, I've never seen them give it critical thought - it's always been the whole "Oh, Jesus is so magnificent, that this could happen through him!".

 

Nobody thinks about the stuff that NEEDS to be thought about; rather, they focus on the non-controversial stuff. They'll study in detail the entire diatribe between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3, but then when it comes to examining how Elijah called unto God and had a bear kill 40+ people for making fun of him (Some just and loving god...), they just laugh, and skim past it.

[Eccles]

The Holey Babble is totally incomprehensible. It was written by brainless idiots for brainless idiots: ideal for the American mentality

[qadeshet]

And the reason why Christians are idiots? They aren't encouraged to think. Being a Christian means you have to switch off your brain.

 

I've been attending a xtian school for the last year and a half, and I was formerly a religion major. Fyrefly's statement is entirely correct. In all the times that I've gone through and done biblical exegesis, or see others do exegesis, it's on the oh-so-lovey-duvey stuff... I've never, ever seen somebody go through and take a detailed look at all of the crap that doesn't make sense, and if they have, I've never seen them give it critical thought - it's always been the whole "Oh, Jesus is so magnificent, that this could happen through him!".

 

Nobody thinks about the stuff that NEEDS to be thought about; rather, they focus on the non-controversial stuff. They'll study in detail the entire diatribe between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3, but then when it comes to examining how Elijah called unto God and had a bear kill 40+ people for making fun of him (Some just and loving god...), they just laugh, and skim past it.

Can't blame poor old Elijah for this one. Here's the story.

 

2 Kings 2

2:22 So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the saying of Elisha which he spake.

2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

 

This story tells me all about the OT god that I need to know.

[hereticzero]

Thinking and reading the bible. Hmmmm. If more Christians actually DID think when they read the bible there would be a lot less Christians. Christians don't "think" when they read the bible. They simple skim over the rape, murder, death, etc and pick the bits that sound reasonably good. They ignore the fairy tales - the dragons, talking donkeys, flying chariots, giants, unicorns, etc and pretend that their idealist fable is reality.

 

KH> A little hasty, but I suspect you've been on the boards long enough to know that. The Bible doesn't approve everything it records. It tells it warts and all.

 

There are no fairy-tale dragons, the donkey was theophanic and not an animal with human vocal chords, the chariot may have been a representational vision, there were some really big dudes (just like today), the Hebrew word for unicorn is "oxen". So I don't think you have a case.

 

Kevin H

 

Now, you're lying through your teeth, kevin old man! The original greek text recorded unicorns, satyrs, cockatrices, and fauns. They were not allegorical characters representing today's animals. They were mythological animals written in a mythological story. Changing the names of animals to falsely reflect animals that are real, is just a coverup for the fact that the bible is based on mythology and fables. It is not true and without error because people have changed the wordings and added passages where none existed before and the church even tries to rewrite history by adding accounts to ancient manuscripts where none existed before. The bible has been changed so many times, real christians don't even know what the original story was let alone you. The church is based on lies, the gospels are based on lies and when you claim it is all true and without error, hey, you lie too.

[redadare]

Heard a couple of days ago that there is an increase of church attendance here!

 

That's fine as long as it's not to RC churches!

[The-Captain]

Heard a couple of days ago that there is an increase of church attendance here!

 

That's fine as long as it's not to RC churches!

 

Pray tell, why is that?

[SWIM]

Heard a couple of days ago that there is an increase of church attendance here!

 

That's fine as long as it's not to RC churches!

 

Pray tell, why is that?

 

Just a guess here, but most fundys think the RCC is the church of satan... LOL Now isn't that special?

[redadare]

 

Just a guess here, but most fundys think the RCC is the church of satan... LOL Now isn't that special?

 

Since the RC Church teaches that one is saved through receiving The Sacraments and thus not by faith, is it so surprising?

 

MANY have willingly died in centuries gone by rather than agree to something that opposes that which is written.

[Deva]

Since the RC Church teaches that one is saved through receiving The Sacraments and thus not by faith, is it so surprising?

 

MANY have willingly died in centuries gone by rather than agree to something that opposes that which is written.

 

I wasn't a Catholic but I think they would argue that it requires faith to receive the Sacrements properly. Your second sentence is true but isn't that tragic? The Catholics have church doctrine which they believe in addition to the Bible. Its the Bible as interpreted by the Church. Your reliance on the Bible alone is only post reformation.

[Antlerman]

Just a guess here, but most fundys think the RCC is the church of satan... LOL Now isn't that special?

Since the RC Church teaches that one is saved through receiving The Sacraments and thus not by faith, is it so surprising?

 

MANY have willingly died in centuries gone by rather than agree to something that opposes that which is written.

Personally, I think fundis are just jealous of the RCC's success, both as an institution, and in offering programs of charity that don't force a lecture about hell on the people they're trying to help.

 

Fundis are jealous of their own mother.

 

So what's your profound insights on that?

[Ahh!]

For me leaving Christianity was a gradual intellectual process. Christianity to Liberal Christianity to Islam to Orthodox Judaism to vague mysticism to atheism. I'm largely indifferent to the evangelical machine except when one of their followers harasses me.

[Ravenwing]

What am I running from??

 

I am running from people who want to usurp my entire time serving church programs to self-replicate ideas and practices

I am running from the condemnation of people who disagree with me

I am running from postures and attitudes that convey spirituality to hide the fact that preachers and leaders are just like everyone else ... it's just a big pretentious circle.

 

but it is not REALLY about what I am running from. It is what I am running to.

 

 

I am running to authentically saying and acting how I truly am at any given time

I am running to freedom of sexuality

I am running to love without judgement or a framework of judgement

I am running toward listening to others without feeling threatened by their ideas

I am running toward wonder without preconception

I am running to life in every precious moment

[Deanna]

The Holey Babble is totally incomprehensible. It was written by brainless idiots for brainless idiots: ideal for the American mentality

 

I can't believe after all these months no one has said anything about this.

 

American Christians aren't the only ones who follow the "Holey Babble." Christianity flourished in Europe centuries before the U.S.A even existed.

 

I shouldn't be the one to break this news to you, however. Grade school must have failed you miserably, or vice versa.

[Knupfer]

American Christianity is reaping the whirlwind of superficiality. Either mass media gives a false impression, or there actually is a growing number of Ex-Christians. And the Christian counter-culture and marketing machine of church-on-every-corner America is producing them.

 

This is a country of Christendom. Unfortunately, our affluence and marketing saavy produces religious theme-parks, vacation cruises, guady TV shows, Christian dentist offices complete with a fish on the drill, restaurants where the waitress gives her testimony before taking your order ("I'll have the Noah's Ark Platter"), Born Again Used Cars, Maranatha Insurance, Christian Brothers Auto Repair, Christian Donuts, Christian Day at Six Flags, Creation Museums, Christian Diet Plans, and sloganeering T-shirts. Everything I just described is real. And it's ten miles wide and one inch deep.

 

One can thrive in this ghetto provided one never experiences heartache, reads a book, pays attention to the Third World, reads the Bible, or thinks. The blessings of free market enterprise can generate noise and fury, but no substance. The top-ten best-sellers in Christian bookstores are consistently books on how to get blessings, purchased by people who are unbelievably blessed.

 

I am convinced that the evacuation from this pseudo-world is what is occuring among multitudes of sincere people. And actually, this can be a good thing if one is willing to peel the layers to get to the meat.

 

Worse, churches large and small, rural and urban, are influenced by this marketing machine that passes for Christianity. So the person in the pew with no direct access to big-city Christian ammenities still absorb the mentality.

 

What is responsible for this mentality? In brief, an anti-intellectual, touchy-feely spirituality that has been growing since the end of World War II, culminating in various charismatic movements, "name it claim it" Word of Faith churches, and mega-churches.

 

Finally, I've noticed that Ex-Christians who fled or were burned by all this know Evangelical lingo, code words, and expectations. They are as good at giving their "Ex-Christian" testimony as they were giving the Christian one. And they anticipate how Christians will respond. This may prevent honest reflection and dialouge.

 

If this shoe fits anyone here, I am truly, terribly saddened by it.

 

Kevin H

Jesus tells us why there are so many "ex-Christians' in the parable of the sower. 4 groups of people will heard the word and only one group will remain faithful. So all is going the way Jesus says it will.

[Brother Jeff]

American Christianity is reaping the whirlwind of superficiality. Either mass media gives a false impression, or there actually is a growing number of Ex-Christians. And the Christian counter-culture and marketing machine of church-on-every-corner America is producing them.

 

This is a country of Christendom. Unfortunately, our affluence and marketing saavy produces religious theme-parks, vacation cruises, guady TV shows, Christian dentist offices complete with a fish on the drill, restaurants where the waitress gives her testimony before taking your order ("I'll have the Noah's Ark Platter"), Born Again Used Cars, Maranatha Insurance, Christian Brothers Auto Repair, Christian Donuts, Christian Day at Six Flags, Creation Museums, Christian Diet Plans, and sloganeering T-shirts. Everything I just described is real. And it's ten miles wide and one inch deep.

 

One can thrive in this ghetto provided one never experiences heartache, reads a book, pays attention to the Third World, reads the Bible, or thinks. The blessings of free market enterprise can generate noise and fury, but no substance. The top-ten best-sellers in Christian bookstores are consistently books on how to get blessings, purchased by people who are unbelievably blessed.

 

I am convinced that the evacuation from this pseudo-world is what is occuring among multitudes of sincere people. And actually, this can be a good thing if one is willing to peel the layers to get to the meat.

 

Worse, churches large and small, rural and urban, are influenced by this marketing machine that passes for Christianity. So the person in the pew with no direct access to big-city Christian ammenities still absorb the mentality.

 

What is responsible for this mentality? In brief, an anti-intellectual, touchy-feely spirituality that has been growing since the end of World War II, culminating in various charismatic movements, "name it claim it" Word of Faith churches, and mega-churches.

 

Finally, I've noticed that Ex-Christians who fled or were burned by all this know Evangelical lingo, code words, and expectations. They are as good at giving their "Ex-Christian" testimony as they were giving the Christian one. And they anticipate how Christians will respond. This may prevent honest reflection and dialouge.

 

If this shoe fits anyone here, I am truly, terribly saddened by it.

 

Kevin H

Jesus tells us why there are so many "ex-Christians' in the parable of the sower. 4 groups of people will heard the word and only one group will remain faithful. So all is going the way Jesus says it will.

And the group that remained faithful are known as sheep. They didn't do the research to find out if what they are believing is actually true. And it's not. Most of us former Christians here became aware of the fact that Christianity isn't true through a great deal of research and thought. As for what Jesus allegedly tells us, those words were put into his mouth thousands of years ago by anonymous authors writing religious tracts. Not exactly what I would call a trustworthy or reliable source!

[OnceConvinced]

Jesus tells us why there are so many "ex-Christians' in the parable of the sower. 4 groups of people will heard the word and only one group will remain faithful. So all is going the way Jesus says it will.

Not difficult to be right when you cover all your bases.

 

Hey God has told me something just now. And I can gaurantee these predictions are correct.

 

People like Knutfuck will come to this site. They will either:

 

A. Return time and time again to post on this site

B. Get banned for being a complete f-wit.

C. Stay for a short time and flee with their tail between their legs because they can't handle the truth, never to return again

 

Once you see that my predictions are correct and it's going to happen as I said it will, you will have to admit that I am the son of God!

[BiMamaFeminAtheist]

American Christianity is reaping the whirlwind of superficiality. Either mass media gives a false impression, or there actually is a growing number of Ex-Christians. And the Christian counter-culture and marketing machine of church-on-every-corner America is producing them.

 

Kevin I'll agree that there are too many churches and that they are too well-represented in the media and in politics.

 

This is a country of Christendom. Unfortunately, our affluence and marketing saavy produces religious theme-parks, vacation cruises, guady TV shows, Christian dentist offices complete with a fish on the drill, restaurants where the waitress gives her testimony before taking your order ("I'll have the Noah's Ark Platter"), Born Again Used Cars, Maranatha Insurance, Christian Brothers Auto Repair, Christian Donuts, Christian Day at Six Flags, Creation Museums, Christian Diet Plans, and sloganeering T-shirts. Everything I just described is real. And it's ten miles wide and one inch deep.

 

Let's not forget Xtian music sales.

 

One can thrive in this ghetto provided one never experiences heartache, reads a book, pays attention to the Third World, reads the Bible, or thinks. The blessings of free market enterprise can generate noise and fury, but no substance. The top-ten best-sellers in Christian bookstores are consistently books on how to get blessings, purchased by people who are unbelievably blessed.

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume you've never lived in a ghetto - either low-income high-crime housing or a Jewish neighborhood fenced in by Nazis. Just a guess, because if you HAD lived in one of this settings, you probably wouldn't refer to affluent Xtian consumerism and prosperity-lit as "ghetto" but rather "conceited" "uppity" or "rich white assholes".

 

 

I am convinced that the evacuation from this pseudo-world is what is occuring among multitudes of sincere people.

Where does your conviction of this come from? I'm not being snarky, just curious. And how do you judge the "sincerity" people who leave the church?

 

And actually, this can be a good thing if one is willing to peel the layers to get to the meat.

I can agree that blind faith is stupidity in pretty clothes. I just go further; I believe that faith is not a virtue - it is a vice.

 

What is responsible for this mentality? In brief, an anti-intellectual, touchy-feely spirituality that has been growing since the end of World War II, culminating in various charismatic movements, "name it claim it" Word of Faith churches, and mega-churches.

 

This is also known as gnostic heresy - the believe that you should not feel suffering. But suffering exists, and so xtians (and other religionists) are required to come up with an explanation of pain, disease, death, cruelty, child abuse, rape, etc. We end up with (broadly speaking) "Pray harder! Do more works! Have more faith!" Then when that inevitably fails, we end up at the truly fund-y end of the spectrum, "The world is coming to an end!" or "You must be reaping something you sowed - it's YOUR fault you're in pain." I grew up with this last mindset and can't say I miss it. At all.

 

Finally, I've noticed that Ex-Christians who fled or were burned by all this know Evangelical lingo, code words, and expectations. They are as good at giving their "Ex-Christian" testimony as they were giving the Christian one. And they anticipate how Christians will respond. This may prevent honest reflection and dialouge.

 

I'd really like to point out that the purpose of this site is not honest reflection and dialogue with christians. It's a support group of sorts for EX-christians (why oh why do people always seem to miss the freaking NAME of the site??) When I wrote my anti-testimonial I was writing for me. I told my story of what really happened, how I felt and why I experienced. How I came to the conclusion that there is zero evidence for god, and even if A deity exists, the Judeo-Christian-Islamic-Abrahamic god is a right bastard. As others have pointed out, we know the lingo, words, and how christians respond because we USED TO BE xtians. Again, the name of the site is "EX-christian" See, that sort of encapsulates the whole thing; we USED to be xtians (so that's how we know how xtians operate) and we AREN'T xtians anymore (hence the "ex").

 

Yes, this is a bit patronizing, but so is assuming that droves of people are running from your faith because it's too commercial.

 

I personally left because it was too cruel.

 

Because I got tired of talking to the ceiling.

 

Because at the end of the week, I'd rather keep 100% of my paycheck, not 90%.

 

Because I like spending Sunday mornings with my REAL family (my son) and not with some fictitious "body of christ" church family.

 

Because I never want my son to be taught he is inherently sinful, evil, bad, and wrong.

 

Because I think religion is child abuse. Because medicine is a GOOD thing that I was deprived of, and many others raised in religion are as well.

 

Even liberal, "reasonable" (but without reason, go figure) religionists/theists create a problem, because if they have legitimacy for believing in fairy tales, then that only allows for the continued existence of the truly out-there branches/brands. Personally, if I thought God was real like I used to, I could never belong to a "lukewarm" church - it'd be fire and brimstone, praying in tongues, handling snakes, the whole nine yards. Because what's the point in faith if it can't be tested?

 

If this shoe fits anyone here, I am truly, terribly saddened by it.

Saddened, but not sorry. Christians bemoan the things christianity is/does, but take no responsibility. Either it's your religion and your church, in which case it's your responsibility (even if it isn't your fault) or you need to denounce the whole thing.

 

This turned out a lot longer than I intended, but I had a lot to say. If you're not just a post-and-runner, I'd be interested in continuing the conversation.

[Euthyphro's Thorn]

Kevin H hasn't logged into his account since November of last year, so I doubt you'll see a response from him.

[BiMamaFeminAtheist]

Kevin H hasn't logged into his account since November of last year, so I doubt you'll see a response from him.

Damn! Can you teach me how to ascertain this info for myself in future so I at least vent on CURRENT trolls?? Thanks in advance and love your avatar - BMFA

[bush country]

Kevin H hasn't logged into his account since November of last year, so I doubt you'll see a response from him.

Damn! Can you teach me how to ascertain this info for myself in future so I at least vent on CURRENT trolls?? Thanks in advance and love your avatar - BMFA

View their profile. It will show the last time they have been on.

[orlando]

by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

 

This story tells me all about the OT god that I need to know.

 

Well surely saying "go up thou bald head" to a prophet deserves being torn by she bears? (I wonder if they are more dangerous than he ones?) Good old fashioned discipline - like the law where it says disobedient children who get drunk and ignore their parents should be stoned to death..