Ex-christian Exodus

[Euthyphro's Thorn]

Kevin H hasn't logged into his account since November of last year, so I doubt you'll see a response from him.

Damn! Can you teach me how to ascertain this info for myself in future so I at least vent on CURRENT trolls?? Thanks in advance and love your avatar - BMFA

 

Thanks on the avatar, BMFA.

 

I see Bush County answered your question. Sorry I'm so late in getting back here.

[PocketAces]

American Christianity is reaping the whirlwind of superficiality. Either mass media gives a false impression, or there actually is a growing number of Ex-Christians. And the Christian counter-culture and marketing machine of church-on-every-corner America is producing them.

 

This is a country of Christendom. Unfortunately, our affluence and marketing saavy produces religious theme-parks, vacation cruises, guady TV shows, Christian dentist offices complete with a fish on the drill, restaurants where the waitress gives her testimony before taking your order ("I'll have the Noah's Ark Platter"), Born Again Used Cars, Maranatha Insurance, Christian Brothers Auto Repair, Christian Donuts, Christian Day at Six Flags, Creation Museums, Christian Diet Plans, and sloganeering T-shirts. Everything I just described is real. And it's ten miles wide and one inch deep.

 

One can thrive in this ghetto provided one never experiences heartache, reads a book, pays attention to the Third World, reads the Bible, or thinks. The blessings of free market enterprise can generate noise and fury, but no substance. The top-ten best-sellers in Christian bookstores are consistently books on how to get blessings, purchased by people who are unbelievably blessed.

 

I am convinced that the evacuation from this pseudo-world is what is occuring among multitudes of sincere people. And actually, this can be a good thing if one is willing to peel the layers to get to the meat.

 

Worse, churches large and small, rural and urban, are influenced by this marketing machine that passes for Christianity. So the person in the pew with no direct access to big-city Christian ammenities still absorb the mentality.

 

What is responsible for this mentality? In brief, an anti-intellectual, touchy-feely spirituality that has been growing since the end of World War II, culminating in various charismatic movements, "name it claim it" Word of Faith churches, and mega-churches.

 

Finally, I've noticed that Ex-Christians who fled or were burned by all this know Evangelical lingo, code words, and expectations. They are as good at giving their "Ex-Christian" testimony as they were giving the Christian one. And they anticipate how Christians will respond. This may prevent honest reflection and dialouge.

 

If this shoe fits anyone here, I am truly, terribly saddened by it.

 

Kevin H

all that is nothing to flee from. one can't. drive on the road, and you see Christianized buisnesses, i see similiar examples that you've posted here in the area i live, thankfully not in my city. one can escape the evangelical and Christian churches. and i'm splitting hairs here, but i think it would be more practical to say our nation is a nation that has a lot of Christians. to say this is a nation of Christendom is to automatically entail that our government is Christian, which it is not Christian.

 

for me, there is no exodus. when you come to the understanding, there is no god, no heaven, no hell, no salvation, no redemption, no damnation, nothing spiritual, you can't have a exodus from nothingness because in essence your fleeing from nothing.

 

the exodus is relative to every person to how religion, religious beliefs affected their lives and that is the exodus there in my opinion.

 

of course people would have a testimony of some sort. you go from different perspectives and pardigms that are as different as night and day, there's always going to be a story or a testimony of why. i agree that it can prevent honest reflection and dialogue if that's one's only reason to believe just as the faith of a Christian is meaningless if their testimony is their only argument. but i don't see a reason to bring that up though. you have a testimony yourself, so it seems kind of like a double standard to mention our testimony or story why we disbelieve, but not mention the fact that you have a testimony yourself. everyone does. so why did you bring that up?

 

and the evacuation from the pseudo-world part is interesting. it seems like you may be saying, and i'm not saying you are, because i could be misinterpretating you. but, are you saying that many non-believers are just simply evacuating from the Christian culture? the Christian culture is not Christianity. it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. i would believe that most non-Christians deconverted because of the theological claims, the beliefs in Christianity. and may i ask you a question:

why is your Christian worldview not any different?

[Big.blue.nation]

Kevin, we are not superficial, we as ex-christians, did have many hopes and dreams in our faith. We loved Jesus...you think this was easy making this transition just because of cheap commercial christianity, no, it's not that at all! Many of us were heavily involved in the ministry, I myself was an evangelist for many years. I believed passionately in the case for Christianity, was involved in overseas crusades, street evangelism and apologetics much like yourself. Most of us are at odds with the the THEOLOGY of the christian faith itself. I'm trying to read between the lines a little bit here, understanding where you are coming from and can't help but wonder if deep down, you yourself are trying to come to terms with things you find too hard to grasp about the sensational claims that Christianity makes. And don't use the excuse that commercial christianity is one thing and the real thing is something else. When jesus supposedly ascended into heaven and commissioned his disciples, it was the dawn of the church and has been for the past 2000 years been an abysmal failure. Instead of truth, love and justice...we've been given manmade fabricated writings, wars, persecution, torture and to top it off commercial christianity. Kevin, escape the lie...it is freedom.

[Trike]

Speaking for myself, I am fleeing nothing. I threw down the baggage that had been handed to me by an oppressive system of belief that's intent was to destroy me and I walked away. And I continue to walk away from the pat "answers" and apologetics that explain nothing, the rigid one-size-fits-all dreams and expectations, the beliefs which are exactly the same as other Greco-Roman mystery cults and all the other crap that goes along with Christianity. And it has little to do with the "Americanization" of Christianity either, I know the Bible, I read it cover to cover many times and took it all to heart, I know the history of the early church and the history of the Biblical canon.

 

I do not flee. If I had fled, I wouldn't be (physically) in the place I am now. I still occasionally attend church if my family asks me or if my hosts are going, I go to a Christian college and I still have good relations with my Christian family. I have fled nothing, I merely rejected a system of belief.

[Guest kcdad]

This is a country of Christendom. Unfortunately, our affluence and marketing saavy produces religious theme-parks, vacation cruises, guady TV shows, Christian dentist offices complete with a fish on the drill, restaurants where the waitress gives her testimony before taking your order ("I'll have the Noah's Ark Platter"), Born Again Used Cars, Maranatha Insurance, Christian Brothers Auto Repair, Christian Donuts, Christian Day at Six Flags, Creation Museums, Christian Diet Plans, and sloganeering T-shirts. Everything I just described is real. And it's ten miles wide and one inch deep.

MARANATHA INSURANCE... would that be term or universal life?

 

Ah come on, don't take it so seriously. I am a believer and don't ... nor do I take places like Area 51 with alien burgers, Dinosaur BBQ, Hell's Kitchen, or Fat Buddha seriously. I understand that "Christians" think it means something... but it is no different than George Washington slept here or the Nike logo on a celebrities ball cap... it is just marketing techniques. (I overheard a teenager saying matter of factly, "Yeah we all are wearing something from Abercrombie and Fitch, but it doesn't mean anything..." DUH?)

 

Let the "Christians" hang out together... they'll end up eating their young like any other group.

[Big.blue.nation]

I'm sorry, I'm just imagining in my mind the song "Exodus" by Bob Marley within the context of this post. It's awesome and feels good to so many of us Ex-C's are fed up and finding greener pasture in life. A life without manmade dogma and religion, but the freedom to be happy and live without fear!

[TheMathGuy]

American Christianity is reaping the whirlwind of superficiality. Either mass media gives a false impression, or there actually is a growing number of Ex-Christians. And the Christian counter-culture and marketing machine of church-on-every-corner America is producing them.

 

This is a country of Christendom. Unfortunately, our affluence and marketing saavy produces religious theme-parks, vacation cruises, guady TV shows, Christian dentist offices complete with a fish on the drill, restaurants where the waitress gives her testimony before taking your order ("I'll have the Noah's Ark Platter"), Born Again Used Cars, Maranatha Insurance, Christian Brothers Auto Repair, Christian Donuts, Christian Day at Six Flags, Creation Museums, Christian Diet Plans, and sloganeering T-shirts. Everything I just described is real. And it's ten miles wide and one inch deep.

 

...

 

I am convinced that the evacuation from this pseudo-world is what is occuring among multitudes of sincere people. And actually, this can be a good thing if one is willing to peel the layers to get to the meat.

 

...

 

Worse, churches large and small, rural and urban, are influenced by this marketing machine that passes for Christianity. So the person in the pew with no direct access to big-city Christian ammenities still absorb the mentality.

 

What is responsible for this mentality? In brief, an anti-intellectual, touchy-feely spirituality that has been growing since the end of World War II, culminating in various charismatic movements, "name it claim it" Word of Faith churches, and mega-churches.

 

Indeed! But this was not why I left the faith. This was what plunged me even deeper into Christian fundamentalism. I believed that in spite of all this pomp and circumstance there was an original truth at Christianity's core, and I wanted to know it.

 

One can thrive in this ghetto provided one never experiences heartache, reads a book, pays attention to the Third World, reads the Bible, or thinks.

 

Knowing all this was, I suspect, part of the reason why once I left fundamentalism and DID become part of liberal touchy-feely Christianity, I didn't stick around for very long.

 

The blessings of free market enterprise can generate noise and fury, but no substance.

 

But neither do they destroy substance for those who seek it out. I've got nothing against the free market.

 

Finally, I've noticed that Ex-Christians who fled or were burned by all this know Evangelical lingo, code words, and expectations. They are as good at giving their "Ex-Christian" testimony as they were giving the Christian one.

 

Yep. I'm quite familiar with all the lingo. It's hard not to be, even if you weren't part of the Evangelical movement yourself.

 

And they anticipate how Christians will respond. This may prevent honest reflection and dialouge.

 

I must admit I have been guilty of doing that in the past. I try to avoid it if I can, because as you say, it does tend to hinder dialogue. However, I only feel I need to do this if I'm having a dialogue with another Christian. If I'm just posting a personal rant I feel there is no problem in writing about how Christians will likely respond (and HAVE responded).

 

The wishy-washy Christianity you refer to may be a reason for a Christian to leave the religion, or it may be a reason for him to become a fundamentalist. What the proportion is, I can only speculate. It does reflect poorly on the religion when people who are supposed to have been "saved" and freed from the world are doing these things. It only adds to the evidence that Christianity is not true. But I don't see it as the primary evidence that Christianity isn't true. It can always be rationalized away by making a distinction between "real" Christians and the superficial Christians (which is exactly what I did as a Christian fundamentalist). By itself, it was not enough evidence to get me to change my mind about the religion.

[NonXNonExX]

I have one very small issue with nearly every poster here. I belong to what appears to be the smallest and most ignored minority of all--at least here on this site.

 

I grew up in a family that went to a Methodist church every Sunday, attended vacation bible school and was even baptized. My mother's relatives are all strong Catholics, some even priests and nuns.

 

But i never bought it for a minute. Besides the fact that the sermons were boring and repetitive, the songs uninteresting and the Sunday school lessons beyond comprehension, i could see from the start that that the whole thing really didn't make sense from start to finish. As i got older and found out the history of the church and how the canon was formed, i became even more convinced. I guess i was fortunate in that none of my family ever tried to force me to be a Xtian. Even my aunts that were nuns never preached to us, though we did let them say grace when they came for dinner. When one of my relatives spouted some religious crap i just ignored them and they let it go.

 

So, why am i so interested in this site? Because i find it comforting to find there are so many that have views similar to mine when it seems that so many in the US have swallowed the whole crock of shit without even a burp. Even though i am not an ex-Christian or a Christian apologist i hope no one feels that i don't belong here. I sympathize with both groups, but i am definitely a non-believer. Life is already plenty complicated without bringing in flying pigs, talking animals and three-in-one invisible friends.

 

Although i said at the beginning that i am in a small minority, i think it's a minority that is growing as fast as the group of ex-Christians and we deserve recognition as much as those who were hurt by Xtianity or simply woke up to the insanity of it all.

 

Thanks for listening!

[Shyone]

It wasn't the superficiality of religion, or the hypocrisy of the preachers, or anything more than the power of reason that led me to atheism. Intellectual curiosity and empathy killed my faith. Logic buried it. It's as simple as that.

[Super FZL]

American Christianity is reaping the whirlwind of superficiality. Either mass media gives a false impression, or there actually is a growing number of Ex-Christians. And the Christian counter-culture and marketing machine of church-on-every-corner America is producing them.

 

This is a country of Christendom. Unfortunately, our affluence and marketing saavy produces religious theme-parks, vacation cruises, guady TV shows, Christian dentist offices complete with a fish on the drill, restaurants where the waitress gives her testimony before taking your order ("I'll have the Noah's Ark Platter"), Born Again Used Cars, Maranatha Insurance, Christian Brothers Auto Repair, Christian Donuts, Christian Day at Six Flags, Creation Museums, Christian Diet Plans, and sloganeering T-shirts. Everything I just described is real. And it's ten miles wide and one inch deep.

 

One can thrive in this ghetto provided one never experiences heartache, reads a book, pays attention to the Third World, reads the Bible, or thinks. The blessings of free market enterprise can generate noise and fury, but no substance. The top-ten best-sellers in Christian bookstores are consistently books on how to get blessings, purchased by people who are unbelievably blessed.

 

I am convinced that the evacuation from this pseudo-world is what is occuring among multitudes of sincere people. And actually, this can be a good thing if one is willing to peel the layers to get to the meat.

 

Worse, churches large and small, rural and urban, are influenced by this marketing machine that passes for Christianity. So the person in the pew with no direct access to big-city Christian ammenities still absorb the mentality.

 

What is responsible for this mentality? In brief, an anti-intellectual, touchy-feely spirituality that has been growing since the end of World War II, culminating in various charismatic movements, "name it claim it" Word of Faith churches, and mega-churches.

 

Finally, I've noticed that Ex-Christians who fled or were burned by all this know Evangelical lingo, code words, and expectations. They are as good at giving their "Ex-Christian" testimony as they were giving the Christian one. And they anticipate how Christians will respond. This may prevent honest reflection and dialouge.

 

If this shoe fits anyone here, I am truly, terribly saddened by it.

 

Kevin H

 

Kevin, I love how well you wrote this. I love how you analyzed and admitted to the problems with Christianity. You believe what you want to believe. That's cool, and I don't have a problem with it. If more Christians saw things the way you did, our world would be a much better place. It's not superficiality that turned me away (rather, it was logic), but I appreciate that you pointed it out.

 

[And apologies to the moderators if I unintentionally resurrected a zombie thread.]

[★ Citsonga ★]

American Christianity is reaping the whirlwind of superficiality. Either mass media gives a false impression, or there actually is a growing number of Ex-Christians. And the Christian counter-culture and marketing machine of church-on-every-corner America is producing them.

 

This is a country of Christendom. Unfortunately, our affluence and marketing saavy produces religious theme-parks, vacation cruises, guady TV shows, Christian dentist offices complete with a fish on the drill, restaurants where the waitress gives her testimony before taking your order ("I'll have the Noah's Ark Platter"), Born Again Used Cars, Maranatha Insurance, Christian Brothers Auto Repair, Christian Donuts, Christian Day at Six Flags, Creation Museums, Christian Diet Plans, and sloganeering T-shirts. Everything I just described is real. And it's ten miles wide and one inch deep.

 

One can thrive in this ghetto provided one never experiences heartache, reads a book, pays attention to the Third World, reads the Bible, or thinks. The blessings of free market enterprise can generate noise and fury, but no substance. The top-ten best-sellers in Christian bookstores are consistently books on how to get blessings, purchased by people who are unbelievably blessed.

 

I am convinced that the evacuation from this pseudo-world is what is occuring among multitudes of sincere people. And actually, this can be a good thing if one is willing to peel the layers to get to the meat.

 

Worse, churches large and small, rural and urban, are influenced by this marketing machine that passes for Christianity. So the person in the pew with no direct access to big-city Christian ammenities still absorb the mentality.

 

What is responsible for this mentality? In brief, an anti-intellectual, touchy-feely spirituality that has been growing since the end of World War II, culminating in various charismatic movements, "name it claim it" Word of Faith churches, and mega-churches.

 

Finally, I've noticed that Ex-Christians who fled or were burned by all this know Evangelical lingo, code words, and expectations. They are as good at giving their "Ex-Christian" testimony as they were giving the Christian one. And they anticipate how Christians will respond. This may prevent honest reflection and dialouge.

 

If this shoe fits anyone here, I am truly, terribly saddened by it.

 

Kevin H

 

Kevin, I love how well you wrote this. I love how you analyzed and admitted to the problems with Christianity. You believe what you want to believe. That's cool, and I don't have a problem with it. If more Christians saw things the way you did, our world would be a much better place. It's not superficiality that turned me away (rather, it was logic), but I appreciate that you pointed it out.

 

[And apologies to the moderators if I unintentionally resurrected a zombie thread.]

 

The problem with christianity for me didn't pertain to any of that; I didn't consider superficiality to be true christianity. It was undeniable problems in the bible that did the religion in for me. Of course, christians can't consider the possibility that the bible really may not be the word of gawd, so they have to lay the blame on something else, and superficiality is an easy target.

[Benyan]

Not only in America, in Hong Kong is the same. There are many missions from US, Europe and Korea use money to preach gospel in China. In HK, there are Christian movie, noah theme park. Church also give the public a false impression of Christian has higher moral standard.

Sorry for my poor English.

[epignosis]

American Christianity is reaping the whirlwind of superficiality. Either mass media gives a false impression, or there actually is a growing number of Ex-Christians. And the Christian counter-culture and marketing machine of church-on-every-corner America is producing them.

 

This is a country of Christendom. Unfortunately, our affluence and marketing saavy produces religious theme-parks, vacation cruises, guady TV shows, Christian dentist offices complete with a fish on the drill, restaurants where the waitress gives her testimony before taking your order ("I'll have the Noah's Ark Platter"), Born Again Used Cars, Maranatha Insurance, Christian Brothers Auto Repair, Christian Donuts, Christian Day at Six Flags, Creation Museums, Christian Diet Plans, and sloganeering T-shirts. Everything I just described is real. And it's ten miles wide and one inch deep.

 

One can thrive in this ghetto provided one never experiences heartache, reads a book, pays attention to the Third World, reads the Bible, or thinks. The blessings of free market enterprise can generate noise and fury, but no substance. The top-ten best-sellers in Christian bookstores are consistently books on how to get blessings, purchased by people who are unbelievably blessed.

 

I am convinced that the evacuation from this pseudo-world is what is occuring among multitudes of sincere people. And actually, this can be a good thing if one is willing to peel the layers to get to the meat.

 

Worse, churches large and small, rural and urban, are influenced by this marketing machine that passes for Christianity. So the person in the pew with no direct access to big-city Christian ammenities still absorb the mentality.

 

What is responsible for this mentality? In brief, an anti-intellectual, touchy-feely spirituality that has been growing since the end of World War II, culminating in various charismatic movements, "name it claim it" Word of Faith churches, and mega-churches.

 

Finally, I've noticed that Ex-Christians who fled or were burned by all this know Evangelical lingo, code words, and expectations. They are as good at giving their "Ex-Christian" testimony as they were giving the Christian one. And they anticipate how Christians will respond. This may prevent honest reflection and dialouge.

 

If this shoe fits anyone here, I am truly, terribly saddened by it.

 

Kevin H

 

Hi Kevin

What you said here is true. Like no other time in history is the world in such a mess. With no direction.

But if you look at it from the bibles and God's point of view. What is happening now is a fullfilment of phrophecy.

 

 

2 Timothy 3:1-7 (New International Version, ©2010)

 

 

 

2 Timothy 3

 

 

¹ But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. ² People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, ³ without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, ⁴ treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— ⁵ having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people. ⁶ They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, ⁷always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth

 

 

 

 

 

Psalm 14:1 (New American Standard Bible)

 

 

 

Psalm 14

 

Folly and Wickedness of Men.

 

For the choir director. A Psalm of David.

¹The fool has ^(A)said in his heart, "There is no God "

They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds;

There is ^(B)no one who does good

 

 

What we see today is exactlywhat the bible said would happen.

The reason such things are happening, on the earth like this, is that Satan is the ruler of the world.

That means governments, the worlds knoweldge and the way they think, includeing religion, is all under Satan's control.

The way the world is now, shows that what the bible said is correct. We can trust it.

So this is not a time to feel sad it really is a time, to be looking forward to the future.

[BrotherJosh]

So let me get this straight...You are looking forward to a world-wide Apocalypse, the painful death of billions of people and and their subsequent casting into an eternal torture dungeon? And you base this belief off a bunch of "prophecies" without a verified author, all based off a book supposedly written 2,000 years ago, by unknown authors with obvious and numerous inaccuracies. On top of that, what about the thousands of other denominations who all disagree with your views on the end of the world?

 

 

No thanks...all of us here are EX-Christians which means we know what you are saying, we once even said stuff like this ourselves. I'm even sure I held many of the same beliefs as you. Posting random bible verses and saying "look at it from god's perspective" is not going to do anything other than make everyone here laugh, shake their heads and be thankful they got out of a religion that foists such archaic, violent and stupid beliefs upon people.

[agnosticator]

That means governments, the worlds knoweldge and the way they think, includeing religion, is all under Satan's control.

 

Satan must be a terrible speller.

 

*looks around* Hey, where's the spam button?

[Ouroboros]

Basically what you're saying is that since history always oscillate between good and bad times, the bad times are the evidence for the apocalyptic religions. I don't buy that.

 

The dark ages were fulfillment of the prophesies as well, but Jesus didn't come back then...

[epignosis]

So let me get this straight...You are looking forward to a world-wide Apocalypse, the painful death of billions of people and and their subsequent casting into an eternal torture dungeon? And you base this belief off a bunch of "prophecies" without a verified author, all based off a book supposedly written 2,000 years ago, by unknown authors with obvious and numerous inaccuracies. On top of that, what about the thousands of other denominations who all disagree with your views on the end of the world?

 

 

No thanks...all of us here are EX-Christians which means we know what you are saying, we once even said stuff like this ourselves. I'm even sure I held many of the same beliefs as you. Posting random bible verses and saying "look at it from god's perspective" is not going to do anything other than make everyone here laugh, shake their heads and be thankful they got out of a religion that foists such archaic, violent and stupid beliefs upon people.

Hi

You have assumed many things here. first I don't look forward to people going through hard times or even dieing .

But I do look forward to a time when the hard times are gone and there will be no more death or suffering. People today are alinated from God and we see the result.

The bible is really about Government, and how he is going to take the rulership away from Satan. By Eve and Adams disobeying God, Adam prove disloyal and willfully went against God, that is why we have the world as it is. What man (Adam) basicly said to God was that we don't need to follow your ways we can do it ourselves. So God gave man time to run his own way. All God wants is for people to chose his way. We have the same choice as Adam. But most people still want to do thier own thing.

The only way a better world works is to have people that want to follow Gods way. That is the only way a better system works. The purpose of a Christen is not to make this world better, ( becasue it is ruled by Satan) but to be like Jesus was no part of the world. ( governments, religions, or spirit of the world)

That is the only answer. If God didn't step in then this world and the earth are just going to go down.

[BrotherJosh]

So let me get this straight...You are looking forward to a world-wide Apocalypse, the painful death of billions of people and and their subsequent casting into an eternal torture dungeon? And you base this belief off a bunch of "prophecies" without a verified author, all based off a book supposedly written 2,000 years ago, by unknown authors with obvious and numerous inaccuracies. On top of that, what about the thousands of other denominations who all disagree with your views on the end of the world?

 

 

No thanks...all of us here are EX-Christians which means we know what you are saying, we once even said stuff like this ourselves. I'm even sure I held many of the same beliefs as you. Posting random bible verses and saying "look at it from god's perspective" is not going to do anything other than make everyone here laugh, shake their heads and be thankful they got out of a religion that foists such archaic, violent and stupid beliefs upon people.

Hi

You have assumed many things here. first I don't look forward to people going through hard times or even dieing .

But I do look forward to a time when the hard times are gone and there will be no more death or suffering. People today are alinated from God and we see the result.

The bible is really about Government, and how he is going to take the rulership away from Satan. By Eve and Adams disobeying God, Adam prove disloyal and willfully went against God, that is why we have the world as it is. What man (Adam) basicly said to God was that we don't need to follow your ways we can do it ourselves. So God gave man time to run his own way. All God wants is for people to chose his way. We have the same choice as Adam. But most people still want to do thier own thing.

The only way a better world works is to have people that want to follow Gods way. That is the only way a better system works. The purpose of a Christen is not to make this world better, ( becasue it is ruled by Satan) but to be like Jesus was no part of the world. ( governments, religions, or spirit of the world)

That is the only answer. If God didn't step in then this world and the earth are just going to go down.

 

You don't understand...Do you actually read anything other people write? We have heard all of this. I even said the same EXACT stuff you are saying right now. All the same stuff about Adam, Eve, Satan ruling this world and whatnot. I said all of the same EXACT stuff you are saying. And yet, I still think it is a load of crap. You obviously have not read many articles on this site, many many xtians have come on here and said the same exact stuff that you are saying. I was in fact once a Christian. I studied all these things and luckily I escaped from a religion that is dangerous and a harm to the world around us. You're entire paragraph here is basically one GIANT assumption because you have no evidence to back up any of these claims. Most if not all of us on here, have researched all of these claims...only to find they come up ridiculously short.

[epignosis]

You don't understand...Do you actually read anything other people write? We have heard all of this. I even said the same EXACT stuff you are saying right now. All the same stuff about Adam, Eve, Satan ruling this world and whatnot. I said all of the same EXACT stuff you are saying. And yet, I still think it is a load of crap. You obviously have not read many articles on this site, many many xtians have come on here and said the same exact stuff that you are saying. I was in fact once a Christian. I studied all these things and luckily I escaped from a religion that is dangerous and a harm to the world around us. You're entire paragraph here is basically one GIANT assumption because you have no evidence to back up any of these claims. Most if not all of us on here, have researched all of these claims...only to find they come up ridiculously short.

The reality is that there is no hope from the world. They have nothing . Scientists have nothing. Yet at the same time things are falling into place, just as pre spoken of.

If you think of Noah ( there is an estimate of about 1 million on the earth at that time.) Our time is compared to Noah's time. Most people will not get it. Most don't really want to get it. They want their own thing.

As for proving things. There is nothing out like the bible. Or could there possibly be. If you know what the bible actually says, there can be no doubt.

But I do understand if you were in Christendom why you would be turned off of the bible, and God. The bible condemns Christendom, and compares them to the Pharisees. God holds Christendom clergy responsible, for the lives of millions of people.

But that is no different than the Governments,and worldly institutions in the world either. So to go to the world is not better it's just as bad, and the same thing really.

And there is much evidence.

What claims, did you not get answers for?

[BrotherJosh]

You don't understand...Do you actually read anything other people write? We have heard all of this. I even said the same EXACT stuff you are saying right now. All the same stuff about Adam, Eve, Satan ruling this world and whatnot. I said all of the same EXACT stuff you are saying. And yet, I still think it is a load of crap. You obviously have not read many articles on this site, many many xtians have come on here and said the same exact stuff that you are saying. I was in fact once a Christian. I studied all these things and luckily I escaped from a religion that is dangerous and a harm to the world around us. You're entire paragraph here is basically one GIANT assumption because you have no evidence to back up any of these claims. Most if not all of us on here, have researched all of these claims...only to find they come up ridiculously short.

The reality is that there is no hope from the world. They have nothing . Scientists have nothing. Yet at the same time things are falling into place, just as pre spoken of.

If you think of Noah ( there is an estimate of about 1 million on the earth at that time.) Our time is compared to Noah's time. Most people will not get it. Most don't really want to get it. They want their own thing.

As for proving things. There is nothing out like the bible. Or could there possibly be. If you know what the bible actually says, there can be no doubt.

But I do understand if you were in Christendom why you would be turned off of the bible, and God. The bible condemns Christendom, and compares them to the Pharisees. God holds Christendom clergy responsible, for the lives of millions of people.

But that is no different than the Governments,and worldly institutions in the world either. So to go to the world is not better it's just as bad, and the same thing really.

And there is much evidence.

What claims, did you not get answers for?

 

Why are you even on the Internet, on a computer, sitting in a chair, typing on a keyboard, surrounded by artificial light if scientists have nothing? You say things are pre-spoken of, you still do not read any else's posts or articles...How many people have come before you and said, "oh these are the end times!" Check out William Miller, or any other Apocalyptic preacher. There is nothing like the bible huh? You have obviously not actually investigated the bible...or the lack of inerrancy in the bible, or the contradictions, or the scientific mistakes, or the general lack of original thought or ideas. You have not answered questions or given any evidence. You're entire position is based on ignorance, arrogance, and a general lack of intellectual curiosity beyond your own beliefs. And AGAIN, your entire post is based on assumptions, do you have anything to offer other than common and long refuted christian talking points? You aren't even straying into well thought out theological arguments but are instead leaning upon common assertions that most christians today even scoff at. Everyone here knows what the bible says, I KNOW what the bible says, and it is WRONG. Do you actually read anyone's posts and then respond? Or do you see someone's post, and then decide to spout off some vague, common and cliche christian sayings? Honestly, spend some time on here, read some articles, read some of the books many, many people recommend, and then try posting something that is actually indicative of actual thought and brain function.

[agnosticator]

The reality is that there is no hope from the world. They have nothing . Scientists have nothing...The bible condemns Christendom, and compares them to the Pharisees...But that is no different than the Governments,and worldly institutions in the world either. So to go to the world is not better it's just as bad, and the same thing really.

 

What claims, did you not get answers for?

 

Since you claim that governments, the "world", institutions, Christendom, and scientists have "nothing", then we don't need YOU to explain anything about the Bible. You have NOTHING. So shake the dust off of your feet and take a hike far away from here.

[epignosis]

You don't understand...Do you actually read anything other people write? We have heard all of this. I even said the same EXACT stuff you are saying right now. All the same stuff about Adam, Eve, Satan ruling this world and whatnot. I said all of the same EXACT stuff you are saying. And yet, I still think it is a load of crap. You obviously have not read many articles on this site, many many xtians have come on here and said the same exact stuff that you are saying. I was in fact once a Christian. I studied all these things and luckily I escaped from a religion that is dangerous and a harm to the world around us. You're entire paragraph here is basically one GIANT assumption because you have no evidence to back up any of these claims. Most if not all of us on here, have researched all of these claims...only to find they come up ridiculously short.

The reality is that there is no hope from the world. They have nothing . Scientists have nothing. Yet at the same time things are falling into place, just as pre spoken of.

If you think of Noah ( there is an estimate of about 1 million on the earth at that time.) Our time is compared to Noah's time. Most people will not get it. Most don't really want to get it. They want their own thing.

As for proving things. There is nothing out like the bible. Or could there possibly be. If you know what the bible actually says, there can be no doubt.

But I do understand if you were in Christendom why you would be turned off of the bible, and God. The bible condemns Christendom, and compares them to the Pharisees. God holds Christendom clergy responsible, for the lives of millions of people.

But that is no different than the Governments,and worldly institutions in the world either. So to go to the world is not better it's just as bad, and the same thing really.

And there is much evidence.

What claims, did you not get answers for?

 

Why are you even on the Internet, on a computer, sitting in a chair, typing on a keyboard, surrounded by artificial light if scientists have nothing? You say things are pre-spoken of, you still do not read any else's posts or articles...How many people have come before you and said, "oh these are the end times!" Check out William Miller, or any other Apocalyptic preacher. There is nothing like the bible huh? You have obviously not actually investigated the bible...or the lack of inerrancy in the bible, or the contradictions, or the scientific mistakes, or the general lack of original thought or ideas. You have not answered questions or given any evidence. You're entire position is based on ignorance, arrogance, and a general lack of intellectual curiosity beyond your own beliefs. And AGAIN, your entire post is based on assumptions, do you have anything to offer other than common and long refuted Christian talking points? You aren't even straying into well thought out theological arguments but are instead leaning upon common assertions that most Christians today even scoff at. Everyone here knows what the bible says, I KNOW what the bible says, and it is WRONG. Do you actually read anyone's posts and then respond? Or do you see someone's post, and then decide to spout off some vague, common and cliche Christian sayings? Honestly, spend some time on here, read some articles, read some of the books many, many people recommend, and then try posting something that is actually indicative of actual thought and brain function.

These things you mention about computers lights etc. Are not things that will save this world, from where they are heading. Actually

"Scientists have given man the ability to destroy the earth." ( this is my own quote)

I say this because the bottom line is that , if all the world had the things we do, we would be in more trouble than we are right now. The resources of this earth would not provide the things we have world wide for very long. Scientific knowledge is a major part of the decline of our earth. It is not over population ( all the people alive today could fit in the State of Texas) I'm not saying that Scientific know edge hasn't helped or improved our lives( the ones that can afford to use it), it has. It's just that 200 years ago a man could actually help the environment ( make it better) but today I can leave garbage that last 1,000years.

The reality is that the worlds thinking and actions are destroying the earth and it people. The bible includes Christendom in this.

The real problem is that people say they know what the bible says, but don't really. And certainly don't try to follow what it says.

( now of course that doesn't mean every single person, ) but that is generally true.

 

I will ask you a simple question what is the first prophecy in the bible and what does it mean?

[Guest Valk0010]

Honest question, a ranting book written by stupid goatherders for a lack of a better description, is better then what we have now. I could read buddha and get some good life advice, was makes a book worthwhile that treats women as second class, says to stone gay people, that is better to submit to authority, that faith instead of reason is a virtue. Seriously read the bible, you can tell its manmade just by what they say.

[Guest Valk0010]

Let me clarify what I am saying, today's world suck, but the bronze age is not the answer.

[epignosis]

Honest question, a ranting book written by stupid goat herders for a lack of a better description, is better then what we have now. I could read buddha and get some good life advice, was makes a book that treats women as second class, says to stone gay people, that is better to submit to authority, that faith instead of reason is a virtue. Seriously read the bible, you can tell its manmade just by what they say.

Well the first prophecy is the theme of the bible. It was written by 39 different writers, over a 1500 year time period.

All the writers stayed with in that theme, the prophecies have come true. The bible was written about the people of those times but is for the people of today.

Pretty good for a bunch of goatherds.

Maybe the scientists should take up some goat herding lessons.

The bible doesn't make women second class, maybe some religions have done that. Men and women have different roles to play.The bible speaks of many women as examples for us today.