Ex-christian Exodus

[Guest Valk0010]

 

Well the first prophecy is the theme of the bible. It was written by 39 different writers, over a 1500 year time period.

All the writers stayed with in that theme, the prophecies have come true. The bible was written about the people of those times but is for the people of today.

Pretty good for a bunch of goatherds.

Maybe the scientists should take up some goat herding lessons.

The bible doesn't make women second class, maybe some religions have done that. Men and women have different roles to play.The bible speaks of many women as examples for us today.

Yeah I disagree with you on the whole "theme" bit, the bible seems like a real fragmented book, its christians that look for unity where there is none.

 

Women are second to men in the bible, as much as you may say about different roles, it comes out in application that women become second to man. Remember genesis and the bit about how men are made in the image of god but women are made in the image of man(thats sexism). Women can do everything that man can do, they can be great teachers and great leaders even in the household, yet men somehow just because they happen to be born with a pair, are better then women. HORSESHIT.

[Astreja]

But I do look forward to a time when the hard times are gone and there will be no more death or suffering.

I, personally, don't think that we'll be rid of death or suffering until and unless all life in the universe were to simply cease to exist. As much as you might think you want a perfect utopia, I think you are being completely unrealistic.

 

People today are alinated from God and we see the result.

Unsupported assertion: No evidence for your god.

 

By Eve and Adams disobeying God, Adam prove disloyal and willfully went against God, that is why we have the world as it is.

Absolute mythological rubbish. There is no credible evidence that "Adam and Eve" even existed. No, the Bible is not evidence; it is a book of mythology and not much more than that.

 

Furthermore, in Genesis Adam and Eve were morally nescient until after they had eaten the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. They were condemned for something they could not have possibly known was wrong, because they apparently did not even know that "disobedience" was bad. The whole Eden story is ridiculous.

 

All God wants is for people to chose his way.

So much for that "free will" shit: 'Choose my way of doing things, or else.'

 

The purpose of a Christen is not to make this world better...

Then I have no use for your myth, because I *do* want to make the world better.

 

I want to save it from the likes of you, Epignosis. In My opinion, your beliefs are a clear and present danger to humanity, all the more so because of your sick fixation on this world being evil.

 

The world is not evil. Get over it.

[SoulofSilver]

The reality is that there is no hope from the world

As long as people who perpetuate the myth of the zombie son of the granddaddy in the sky and other fine tales this ignoramus is unfortunately correct. Might be the only thing, but eh, everyone gets one.

[BrotherJosh]

Honest question, a ranting book written by stupid goat herders for a lack of a better description, is better then what we have now. I could read buddha and get some good life advice, was makes a book that treats women as second class, says to stone gay people, that is better to submit to authority, that faith instead of reason is a virtue. Seriously read the bible, you can tell its manmade just by what they say.

Well the first prophecy is the theme of the bible. It was written by 39 different writers, over a 1500 year time period.

All the writers stayed with in that theme, the prophecies have come true. The bible was written about the people of those times but is for the people of today.

Pretty good for a bunch of goatherds.

Maybe the scientists should take up some goat herding lessons.

The bible doesn't make women second class, maybe some religions have done that. Men and women have different roles to play.The bible speaks of many women as examples for us today.

 

Sorry dude, the whole "theme" line of thought you are going with here is completely bunk. Theme's can be interpreted and can be subjective to any number of people. The theme line of thought is only available to someone like you, because you are not actually able to point out either real prophecy, or even point out how the bible is inerrant, accurate, scientifically accurate or even moral. The fact is, it was written thousands of years ago, by unknown authors and is unfalsifiable. On top of that, you state many people don't understand what the bible says? And you do? Your "interpretation" disagrees with many Christians, so who's is right? The bible is contradictory and vague which means anyone can find a verse or passage to support their position.

 

Basically, what you are saying here is that you understand the bible, and the thousands of other people (including Christians) who disagree or draw a different interpretation of it are wrong. If the bible is relevant for the people today there would not be so many interpretations, denominations and disagreement. Your entire argument here is circular, because the only thing you have available to you is the bible, more specifically your own interpretation of it, an interpretation that even disagrees with millions of other vastly different Christians.

 

The burden of proof lies on you to show how and why your interpretation is right, and why thousands, even millions of other Christians are wrong...The thing is, the people here including myself have studied the same exact things. I said many of the same exact things you are saying now. I eventually found out that what I was saying was wrong and not even morally right. If your interpretation is right, are you on Christian forums explaining to them why it is right? How about a Muslim forum, a Buddhist forum, a Hindu forum, hell even a Baptist forum, an Episcopalian forum, a Church of Christ forum, or any other denomination or religion? If your interpretation is right, shouldn't you be on the street corner proclaiming the good news?

 

At the end of the day, you are making unsupported claims and assertions without evidence. The bible is filled with myths, stories and fables. Your actions are the equivalent of me going onto a Ford forum and saying Dodge makes a better truck and that Ford trucks are dangerous to drive. I give no evidence or really even clarify my position other than to say in a multitude of ways that Dodge makes a better truck. The burden of proof lies on you.

[par4dcourse]

Q: From what are you people fleeing.

 

A: Sanctimonious religious turds like (to use the southern vernacular) you-all.

[epignosis]

Let me clarify what I am saying, today's world suck, but the bronze age is not the answer.

I agree with what you said, I could probably not survive at all in the some of those early conditions. But then again man chose this. Adam could have taken Gods side. Really what Adam did was to say we can do this without God. We can rule ourselves. The bible says that "man rules man to his injury". This is correct. Besides this doesn't answer the question of sickness, old age and death.

The world we see today and through history, is mans world without God.

Without God stepping in, what we see now would last until man totally destroyed the earth and himself.

People's life style and attitude towards one another, demands and intervention.

It is just like the TV show Intervention where someone in the family is destroying themselves by drugs, for example, this also tares down the rest of the family. The only answer is the intervention.

That really is what the bible is about.

[epignosis]

Yeah I disagree with you on the whole "theme" bit, the bible seems like a real fragmented book, its Christians that look for unity where there is none.

This is what people that do not know what the bible really says, think. The bible is unified, and all the writers stayed with a theme. Now granted if you listen to what many Christian churches say you would not get this.

The first prophecy in Genesis , is fulfilled in Revelation. All the books in between, takes us from that prophecy, to the fulfillment.

[Thackerie]

... the donkey was theophanic and not an animal with human vocal chords...

 

(After looking up "theophanic"*) Well, of course it wasn't an animal with human vocal chords; that's just plain silly. It was a deity speaking out of a donkey. That's soooooooooo much more reasonable that it just has to be true.

 

 

* When you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit, aye?

 

 

EDIT: I didn't realize that this thread was started in 2007 and that Kevin is long gone. I am very embarrassed.

 

On the other hand, I see that we now have a fresh fundie to tell us why we are all wrong, so I think I'll come back later to check for responses. Should be good for a laugh.

[Deva]

 

Hi Kevin

What you said here is true. Like no other time in history is the world in such a mess. With no direction.

But if you look at it from the bibles and God's point of view. What is happening now is a fullfilment of phrophecy.

 

Disagree - if you lived in Europe in the 14th century facing the black plague you might have something. As it is, there are many times and places that have been worse times to live in than now... like before there was modern medicine or there were any effective pain killers.

 

As far as the folly and wickedness of man -- this is just B.S.

[Deva]

This is what people that do not know what the bible really says, think. The bible is unified, and all the writers stayed with a theme. Now granted if you listen to what many Christian churches say you would not get this.

The first prophecy in Genesis , is fulfilled in Revelation. All the books in between, takes us from that prophecy, to the fulfillment.

 

That is really laughable. People can write anything to make it fit with past writings. Then they get into a big group meeting and decide what books go into the Bible. How is it that you think its supernatural?

[epignosis]

I, personally, don't think that we'll be rid of death or suffering until and unless all life in the universe were to simply cease to exist. As much as you might think you want a perfect utopia, I think you are being completely unrealistic.

Everything about says he should live forever. People morn at a loved ones death. Man spends his life learning and getting experience then dies. People say what a waste. Some people think life is too short, they don't get to do all the thinks they would like too. Also some will freeze themselves in hopes of being brought back to life in the future.

People will use the term passed on so they don't want to think of this life as the end of things. Many cultures have a life after death, idea.

It is not natural for people to die.

But I also know some do not want to live, very long. But usually there are reasons like social issues or, health issues, conditions or trials they face.

If you are a kid and in good health and all the other things around you are good, then you do not think of death. You though , as a kid, feel you could live forever, and want to..

 

The original intent for man was to live forever, this and our minds are in harmony with that.

Scientists are learning how to prolong our life span. If scientists are able to have some success in this , why could not our creator do the same?

[agnosticator]

The world we see today and through history, is mans world without God.

 

What percentage of the world throughout history, was atheist? This would be much more in line with reality: "The world we see today and through history, is man's world with God." All those believers believing resulted in what you see. The world we see today and through history, is man's world with erroneous beliefs about God(s).

 

You really don't know what you are talking about.

[agnosticator]

Scientists are learning how to prolong our life span. If scientists are able to have some success in this , why could not our creator do the same?

 

He already tried, but failed.

[epignosis]

I, personally, don't think that we'll be rid of death or suffering until and unless all life in the universe were to simply cease to exist. As much as you might think you want a perfect utopia, I think you are being completely unrealistic.

I understand your thinking on this as this is what we have had since Adam. But it does not makes sense to the human mind. In our minds death is something we don't want to accept. But we have no choice now.

But man was destined to live forever. We have a brain that would allow continual learning, and experiencing things. Our physical make up is one of replenishing our bodies, so the mechanism is there already. From a baby we grow, becoming an adult, then for some reason we start to go down hill. This is not natural for man. His brain finds it's hard to accept. Many want to be remember after they die. Why is that. It's away to keep yourself to future generations. People bury things in there grave for the after life.

Death for man is unnatural.

[epignosis]

Unsupported assertion: No evidence for your god.

 

The evidence is all around us, in the creation, and in man.

As humans we understand what creation is. We can do that ourselves. For example, no one thinks that a robot, will just come about on it's own. It may use a camera instead of eyes, it may do a stiff walk, using servos and gear's instead of legs. It has memory chips that have a few gigs of memory where we have unlimited memory. etc. No one thinks that this just happened, they think it was created. Well man is astronomically better made than that, so where is the evidence to say man just happened, that there is no design in him. Also that man can make a copy of himself, and search for his own way, and support. You have to be incredibly blinded to reason to say such a thing.

The evidence is that just as a robot is created, so was man, and also the rest of the things we see.

It takes many years of schooling, to blind ones to something that is so obvious.

Besides it doesn't hurt, that if you say there is no God, you can live and do want you want instead of answering to a God.

Most people are making the same choice as Adam did, they want to do it their own way, not Gods way.

[agnosticator]

Death for man is unnatural.

 

Heaven, hell, and christian salvation are unnatural. The wish to live forever is natural, but nothing lives forever. It's unnatural.

[agnosticator]

Unsupported assertion: No evidence for your god.

 

The evidence is all around us, in the creation, and in man.

 

No one has proved or disproved God's existence. The evidence proves man comes from nature.

[Ouroboros]

Unsupported assertion: No evidence for your god.

 

The evidence is all around us, in the creation, and in man.

Nature is evidence for nature. Hence, nature is God.

 

It takes many years of schooling, to blind ones to something that is so obvious.

Yeah. It's better to be ignorant and unlearned. You're a good example of that!

[BrotherJosh]

Unsupported assertion: No evidence for your god.

 

The evidence is all around us, in the creation, and in man.

As humans we understand what creation is. We can do that ourselves. For example, no one thinks that a robot, will just come about on it's own. It may use a camera instead of eyes, it may do a stiff walk, using servos and gear's instead of legs. It has memory chips that have a few gigs of memory where we have unlimited memory. etc. No one thinks that this just happened, they think it was created. Well man is astronomically better made than that, so where is the evidence to say man just happened, that there is no design in him. Also that man can make a copy of himself, and search for his own way, and support. You have to be incredibly blinded to reason to say such a thing.

The evidence is that just as a robot is created, so was man, and also the rest of the things we see.

It takes many years of schooling, to blind ones to something that is so obvious.

Besides it doesn't hurt, that if you say there is no God, you can live and do want you want instead of answering to a God.

Most people are making the same choice as Adam did, they want to do it their own way, not Gods way.

 

You again and again state these vague, quasi, mystical claims and say, "oh the evidence is all around us," "life is evidence" do you even know or understand what you are saying? You aren't even *making* a point or argument. The only *point* you are making is some vague and unsupported, crappy metaphor. All of your posts are actually just some unrelated metaphor. "Everyone fears death" "Robots are designed and use cameras for eyes" "People morn at a loved one's death" Wow, what shocking news that is!! There really isn't anything to argue with here. You make these ignorant assertions without evidence or really without even providing a valid argument. You just type out some stupid metaphor and somehow try to spin it into an argument. Once again I have to wonder if you actually read other posts, or if you just see that someone posted and then decide to spout off some mystical, vague and unsupported argument. The only real "evidence" or argument you have even tried putting forth is copying and pasting off Wikipedia or giving some random bible verse. You really bring nothing new to the table here in any way shape or form. In fact you barely even bring a coherent argument. You're entire use of language and word choice is indicative of someone who does not truly understand what they are saying. Every single one of your posts brings no new argument to this thread, you've basically found a way to state the same thing over and over and over just by wording it differently.

[Guest Valk0010]

Let me clarify what I am saying, today's world suck, but the bronze age is not the answer.

I agree with what you said, I could probably not survive at all in the some of those early conditions. But then again man chose this. Adam could have taken Gods side. Really what Adam did was to say we can do this without God. We can rule ourselves. The bible says that "man rules man to his injury". This is correct. Besides this doesn't answer the question of sickness, old age and death.

The world we see today and through history, is mans world without God.

Without God stepping in, what we see now would last until man totally destroyed the earth and himself.

People's life style and attitude towards one another, demands and intervention.

It is just like the TV show Intervention where someone in the family is destroying themselves by drugs, for example, this also tares down the rest of the family. The only answer is the intervention.

That really is what the bible is about.

Familar any

 

You remind of the guy who would do that.

 

Another question, how just is it, that I have to pay for a circumstance that is completely out of my control, shouldn't it be adam and eve paying for the sins of the world, because its them not me that decided to eat the apple, I am just a victim of circumstance not a perpetrator.

 

And you shouldn't agree with what I said, I am saying, the bible, with its bronze age rationale, is not the answer.

[Guest Valk0010]

Yeah I disagree with you on the whole "theme" bit, the bible seems like a real fragmented book, its Christians that look for unity where there is none.

This is what people that do not know what the bible really says, think. The bible is unified, and all the writers stayed with a theme. Now granted if you listen to what many Christian churches say you would not get this.

The first prophecy in Genesis , is fulfilled in Revelation. All the books in between, takes us from that prophecy, to the fulfillment.

Christianity is a heretical form of Judaism, with its nonsequiter like fulfillment of laws.

[epignosis]

Absolute mythological rubbish. There is no credible evidence that "Adam and Eve" even existed. No, the Bible is not evidence; it is a book of mythology and not much more than that.

 

Furthermore, in Genesis Adam and Eve were morally nescient until after they had eaten the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. They were condemned for something they could not have possibly known was wrong, because they apparently did not even know that "disobedience" was bad. The whole Eden story is ridiculous

.

It was very important to the Jews to keep records of their descendants, unless you think they just made them up. Archeology supports the bible, prophecies support the bible.

Adam knew exactly what he was doing.Adam delt directly with God ( this was before sin, he didn't need a mediator like we do) He saw the some of the animals that were being created, he knew what death was ( because the animals died just like they do today). When he saw that Eve had disobey God, he sided with her. He was disloyal. Adam had seen God create things, and he knew Eve came from him, God could have recreated a woman for him. He knew this. But he decided to take Eve's side in this. and just like parents today ,if the parents make a bad decision the whole family suffers. Just like mankind today.

[epignosis]

Then I have no use for your myth, because I *do* want to make the world better.

 

I want to save it from the likes of you, Epignosis. In My opinion, your beliefs are a clear and present danger to humanity, all the more so because of your sick fixation on this world being evil.

 

The world is not evil. Get over it.

Actually you may get your wish. because governments and people in general will turn on religions. They will try to crush all religion.

[Ouroboros]

It was very important to the Jews to keep records of their descendants, unless you think they just made them up.

The Jews were the Judah tribe of Joseph, who was the son of Israel (Isaac), son of Abraham. (I think I got it right)

 

Before Judah, "Jews" didn't exist.

 

How the heck did Judah keep records of generations that existed before him?

 

Archeology supports the bible,

Like what?

 

Btw, if you believe in a 6,000 year old Earth, then you don't believe in archeology.

 

prophecies support the bible.

Made up after the fact and confirmation bias.

 

Adam knew exactly what he was doing.

No if the fruit was giving him the ability to know what he was doing was wrong. How can someone have to eat a fruit to gain the ability to know that it was wrong to eat the fruit to being with?

 

Btw, if the story is true, the fruit mutated Adam... ooops... mutation does not exist... fruit does not compute...

 

Adam delt directly with God ( this was before sin, he didn't need a mediator like we do) He saw the some of the animals that were being created, he knew what death was ( because the animals died just like they do today).

According to traditional Christian dating of Creation and the fall, Adam was created on Saturday, and he fell on Wednesday. How many animals did he see die in less than a week?

 

When he saw that Eve had disobey God, he sided with her. He was disloyal. Adam had seen God create things, and he knew Eve came from him, God could have recreated a woman for him. He knew this. But he decided to take Eve's side in this. and just like parents today ,if the parents make a bad decision the whole family suffers. Just like mankind today.

And the sin got programmed into our DNA. God mutated the DNA... no wait, mutations don't exist...

[Ouroboros]

Then I have no use for your myth, because I *do* want to make the world better.

 

I want to save it from the likes of you, Epignosis. In My opinion, your beliefs are a clear and present danger to humanity, all the more so because of your sick fixation on this world being evil.

 

The world is not evil. Get over it.

Actually you may get your wish. because governments and people in general will turn on religions. They will try to crush all religion.

Except in America where 70% of the people are Christians, and 80% of the politicians are Christian or Jewish. There are not even a handful of non-believers in our government. So how can you even begin to feel oppressed when your religion has control?