Ex-christian Exodus

[epignosis]

Sorry dude, the whole "theme" line of thought you are going with here is completely bunk. Theme's can be interpreted and can be subjective to any number of people. The theme line of thought is only available to someone like you, because you are not actually able to point out either real prophecy, or even point out how the bible is inerrant, accurate, scientifically accurate or even moral. The fact is, it was written thousands of years ago, by unknown authors and is unfalsifiable. On top of that, you state many people don't understand what the bible says? And you do? Your "interpretation" disagrees with many Christians, so who's is right? The bible is contradictory and vague which means anyone can find a verse or passage to support their position.

The bible's theme is Sovereignty ( government) actually Gods government. It's really about how God is going to take the ruler ship of the world away from Satan. The first prophecy in the bible at Genesis

 

Genesis 3:15 (New International Version, ©2010)

 

¹⁵ And I will put enmity

between you and the woman,

and between your offspring^[a] and hers;

he will crush^[b] your head,

and you will strike his heel.”

 

It is the fulfillment of this verse , that in Revelation it is shown how it will be done.

 

As for interpretation,.... the bible interprets itself. The reason Christendom doesn't know the bible is because they use their own interpretation.

So I think most of you have come from Christendom, .. I can only say you have been lied to by the Church's you went to.

 

 

[seeboh]

One can thrive in this ghetto provided one never experiences heartache, reads a book, pays attention to the Third World, reads the Bible, or thinks.

 

Contrary to popular belief, all of these things actually lead people away from Christianity, sorry.

[Guest Valk0010]

Absolute mythological rubbish. There is no credible evidence that "Adam and Eve" even existed. No, the Bible is not evidence; it is a book of mythology and not much more than that.

 

Furthermore, in Genesis Adam and Eve were morally nescient until after they had eaten the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. They were condemned for something they could not have possibly known was wrong, because they apparently did not even know that "disobedience" was bad. The whole Eden story is ridiculous

.

It was very important to the Jews to keep records of their descendants, unless you think they just made them up. Archeology supports the bible, prophecies support the bible.

Adam knew exactly what he was doing.Adam delt directly with God ( this was before sin, he didn't need a mediator like we do) He saw the some of the animals that were being created, he knew what death was ( because the animals died just like they do today). When he saw that Eve had disobey God, he sided with her. He was disloyal. Adam had seen God create things, and he knew Eve came from him, God could have recreated a woman for him. He knew this. But he decided to take Eve's side in this. and just like parents today ,if the parents make a bad decision the whole family suffers. Just like mankind today.

I was reading something about how some apologists now are trying to argue that the a good deal of the killing of the OT was hyperbole. Say its evidential, the OT, and any clear thinking moral human being would call its protagonist, evil. Say its not evidential, you take a lot of the piss out of your evidential case. Says its evidential and I think you get my point.

[epignosis]

Heaven, hell, and Christian salvation are unnatural. The wish to live forever is natural, but nothing lives forever. It's unnatural.

What really is unnatural, is that anyone can say that the life we see just popped out of the ground. We are intelligent enough to know what creation is, and the intelligence it take make things happen.

For example, I have been waiting for years for a Harley to evolve on to my driveway. It hasn't happened. The life that is on the earth is astronomically more complicated than that. And there are millions of different kinds of life, and these can reproduce and continue on.

This really what scientists are telling us. That it all just evolved out of the ground. It takes many years of schooling to get some to think like that. And it takes people, that just say scientists must know what they are talking about, to believe that as well.

I can see why people are against religions, I get that. The bible agrees with that also.

[BrotherJosh]

Sorry dude, the whole "theme" line of thought you are going with here is completely bunk. Theme's can be interpreted and can be subjective to any number of people. The theme line of thought is only available to someone like you, because you are not actually able to point out either real prophecy, or even point out how the bible is inerrant, accurate, scientifically accurate or even moral. The fact is, it was written thousands of years ago, by unknown authors and is unfalsifiable. On top of that, you state many people don't understand what the bible says? And you do? Your "interpretation" disagrees with many Christians, so who's is right? The bible is contradictory and vague which means anyone can find a verse or passage to support their position.

The bible's theme is Sovereignty ( government) actually Gods government. It's really about how God is going to take the ruler ship of the world away from Satan. The first prophecy in the bible at Genesis

 

Genesis 3:15 (New International Version, ©2010)

 

¹⁵ And I will put enmity

between you and the woman,

and between your offspring^[a] and hers;

he will crush your head,

and you will strike his heel.”

 

It is the fulfillment of this verse , that in Revelation it is shown how it will be done.

 

As for interpretation,.... the bible interprets itself. The reason Christendom doesn't know the bible is because they use their own interpretation.

So I think most of you have come from Christendom, .. I can only say you have been lied to by the Church's you went to.

 

 

 

 

Once again, I have to repeat myself. Do you actually read anyone's posts on this thread? You are AGAIN citing "evidence" from a book that you have not properly defended or even argued in favor of. You have not clarified exactly what your "interpretation" is. You obviously are not reading anyone's posts, you simply see that someone posted and then try to respond with some mystical, vague and shitty post that does nothing to illuminate your position. You are obviously not here to engage in any manner of thoughtful debate. Once AGAIN, like I have stated so many times before, you are not arguing anything new, even within your own posts. You have simply found a way to state the same thing, over and over again with slightly different wording. It is obvious in your posts in this thread, and others, that you are not here to engage in any manner of open minded debate. Your "arguments" are retarded and childish. I actually have respect for intelligent theologians, you, however do not even understand what you are even saying. You offer nothing new or even thought provoking. I actually enjoy debating christians, but with you it's like trying to reason with an idiotic rock. I honestly hope you decide to finally go out, and gain some actual knowledge about the real world. Hell, you should even gain some real knowledge about your own self-professed religion, because obviously you do not understand anything you even believe.

[BrotherJosh]

Heaven, hell, and Christian salvation are unnatural. The wish to live forever is natural, but nothing lives forever. It's unnatural.

What really is unnatural, is that anyone can say that the life we see just popped out of the ground. We are intelligent enough to know what creation is, and the intelligence it take make things happen.

For example, I have been waiting for years for a Harley to evolve on to my driveway. It hasn't happened. The life that is on the earth is astronomically more complicated than that. And there are millions of different kinds of life, and these can reproduce and continue on.

This really what scientists are telling us. That it all just evolved out of the ground. It takes many years of schooling to get some to think like that. And it takes people, that just say scientists must know what they are talking about, to believe that as well.

I can see why people are against religions, I get that. The bible agrees with that also.

 

Once again you respond with a shitty metaphor...sorry do you have any other "evidence"? You are waiting for a Harley to appear in your driveway? Man, you should write an entire thesis statement on that...I have noticed your sentence structure and word choice is not indicative of English being your first language, is this true? If not, you clearly have no understanding of how to even put forth an argument, or even a sentence. If however, English is your first language, please start pasting your posts in Word and spell-checking, because your spelling is atrocious.

 

You make some very interesting statements and have yet to back up any of these claims. Once again, I state, the burden of proof lies on you.

[Astreja]

People morn at a loved ones death. Man spends his life learning and getting experience then dies. People say what a waste.

A waste for whom? (pauses to sip some lovely red wine) What makes you think that eternity lends "meaning" to life? It does not. It can not do such a thing, because there's always another moment in the future and you never do get to the point of it all. Your best bet is to focus your attention in the present moment.

 

Some people think life is too short, they don't get to do all the thinks they would like too. Also some will freeze themselves in hopes of being brought back to life in the future... People will use the term passed on so they don't want to think of this life as the end of things. Many cultures have a life after death idea.

In My opinion, these are all missing the point. Change and death come to all, and wanting it to be otherwise will not make it otherwise.

 

The original intent for man was to live forever...

Existential fallacy. You cannot speak of 'original intent' until you provide credible evidence for a being that is actually capable of having such intent.

 

Your god remains a very weak hypothesis without any evidential support, so telling us what it supposedly "intended" is just wasting your time and ours.

 

It was very important to the Jews to keep records of their descendants, unless you think they just made them up.

Yes, I most certainly do think that the Jews made up stories about imaginary ancestors (not 'descendants') such as Adam and Eve, just as My ancestors made up stories about a cow who freed a giant from a block of ice so that humans could be sweated out of his armpits. A story that includes magic trees, a woman being created out of a rib, and a Talking Snake™ is quite obviously a myth, and I find it both terrifying and hilarious that anyone over the age of 6-7 years old takes it seriously.

 

Archeology supports the bible...

False. There is no evidence of a worldwide flood and no evidence for the Exodus.

 

...prophecies support the bible.

Also false. The city of Tyre and the nation of Egypt are both still in existence.

 

Adam knew exactly what he was doing... He saw the some of the animals that were being created, he knew what death was (because the animals died just like they do today).

I do not remember that from Genesis. Chapter and verse, please?

 

When he saw that Eve had disobey God, he sided with her. He was disloyal. Adam had seen God create things, and he knew Eve came from him, God could have recreated a woman for him. He knew this. But he decided to take Eve's side in this. and just like parents today, if the parents make a bad decision the whole family suffers. Just like mankind today.

Epignosis, you are truly a shameful excuse for a human being. If you currently have a girlfriend or a spouse, I hope she leaves you and finds someone who will treat her with the respect she deserves.

 

Treating a woman like a disposable appendage is disgusting and completely unforgivable. So is considering Adam the 'parent' of Eve.

[Xerces]

American Christianity is reaping the whirlwind of superficiality. Either mass media gives a false impression, or there actually is a growing number of Ex-Christians. And the Christian counter-culture and marketing machine of church-on-every-corner America is producing them.

 

This is a country of Christendom. Unfortunately, our affluence and marketing saavy produces religious theme-parks, vacation cruises, guady TV shows, Christian dentist offices complete with a fish on the drill, restaurants where the waitress gives her testimony before taking your order ("I'll have the Noah's Ark Platter"), Born Again Used Cars, Maranatha Insurance, Christian Brothers Auto Repair, Christian Donuts, Christian Day at Six Flags, Creation Museums, Christian Diet Plans, and sloganeering T-shirts. Everything I just described is real. And it's ten miles wide and one inch deep.

 

One can thrive in this ghetto provided one never experiences heartache, reads a book, pays attention to the Third World, reads the Bible, or thinks. The blessings of free market enterprise can generate noise and fury, but no substance. The top-ten best-sellers in Christian bookstores are consistently books on how to get blessings, purchased by people who are unbelievably blessed.

 

I am convinced that the evacuation from this pseudo-world is what is occuring among multitudes of sincere people. And actually, this can be a good thing if one is willing to peel the layers to get to the meat.

 

Worse, churches large and small, rural and urban, are influenced by this marketing machine that passes for Christianity. So the person in the pew with no direct access to big-city Christian ammenities still absorb the mentality.

 

What is responsible for this mentality? In brief, an anti-intellectual, touchy-feely spirituality that has been growing since the end of World War II, culminating in various charismatic movements, "name it claim it" Word of Faith churches, and mega-churches.

 

Finally, I've noticed that Ex-Christians who fled or were burned by all this know Evangelical lingo, code words, and expectations. They are as good at giving their "Ex-Christian" testimony as they were giving the Christian one. And they anticipate how Christians will respond. This may prevent honest reflection and dialouge.

 

If this shoe fits anyone here, I am truly, terribly saddened by it.

 

Kevin H

 

First of all, its a concern that you hold the belief that you are right above all other xtians, somehow being the overlord & king bearer of the prime xtian knowledge. You must be proud of yourself, because there are hundreds of xtians just like you, and thousands of people that aren't xtians who think their offshoot of a major dominating religion just happens to be the actual truth. I really appreciate you coming to the site and belittling the Ex-C testimonies with quotation marks as if the pain isn't real, you presume we're blinded fools engulfed by anger and spite toward the xtian religion, that we just don't "get it". Let me tell you something buddy, I spent the better part of my youth consumed by a vicious dogma that is at the core of all xtian belief, there is no watered down version of xtianity or some real xtianity that people can make a connection with, its certainly not your brand, your brand seems to support hot head arrogance and elitism, and social isolation. To me, when you come in here talking about how you are saddened by us here at Ex-C and saddened by other xtians tells me your just another religious prick who doesn't know how to use his brain. No you're not right, you don't have evidence, your god isn't real, stop trying to feed your massive self righteous ego and fuck off.

[Xerces]

Hi Kevin

What you said here is true. Like no other time in history is the world in such a mess. With no direction.

But if you look at it from the bibles and God's point of view. What is happening now is a fullfilment of phrophecy.

 

 

2 Timothy 3:1-7 (New International Version, ©2010)

 

 

 

2 Timothy 3

 

 

¹ But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. ² People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, ³ without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, ⁴ treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— ⁵ having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people. ⁶ They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, ⁷always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth

 

 

 

 

 

Psalm 14:1 (New American Standard Bible)

 

 

 

Psalm 14

 

Folly and Wickedness of Men.

 

For the choir director. A Psalm of David.

¹The fool has ^(A)said in his heart, "There is no God "

They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds;

There is ⁽no one who does good

 

 

What we see today is exactlywhat the bible said would happen.

The reason such things are happening, on the earth like this, is that Satan is the ruler of the world.

That means governments, the worlds knoweldge and the way they think, includeing religion, is all under Satan's control.

The way the world is now, shows that what the bible said is correct. We can trust it.

So this is not a time to feel sad it really is a time, to be looking forward to the future.

 

For this to make any sense we'd actually have to believe in satan, using bold text doesn't drive home your point. And that bible verse about the terrible times, that could be applied to anything, I could say "oh hey things are gonna get bad someday" and soon as shit gets serious 'OH HEY LOOK I WAS RIGHT", i mean, the fuck man, do you know how to use logic at all? Oh wait I forget you think scientists are evil, yeah modern medicine and computers sure are evil, but catholics fucking kids in the ass sure is all apart of gods giant perfect plan right? You're a fucking idiot.

[agnosticator]

Heaven, hell, and Christian salvation are unnatural. The wish to live forever is natural, but nothing lives forever. It's unnatural.

What really is unnatural, is that anyone can say that the life we see just popped out of the ground. We are intelligent enough to know what creation is, and the intelligence it take make things happen.

For example, I have been waiting for years for a Harley to evolve on to my driveway. It hasn't happened. The life that is on the earth is astronomically more complicated than that. And there are millions of different kinds of life, and these can reproduce and continue on.

This really what scientists are telling us. That it all just evolved out of the ground. It takes many years of schooling to get some to think like that. And it takes people, that just say scientists must know what they are talking about, to believe that as well.

I can see why people are against religions, I get that. The bible agrees with that also.

 

Once again you respond with a shitty metaphor...sorry do you have any other "evidence"? You are waiting for a Harley to appear in your driveway? Man, you should write an entire thesis statement on that...<SNIP> you clearly have no understanding of how to even put forth an argument, or even a sentence...

 

I'm shocked he even responded to one of my posts! But he might as well not have. Nothing he said has anything to do with my comments.

 

Epignosis, you desperately need to go and take courses on evolution. I hope you're younger than 20, because you have a lot of growing up to do.

[Deva]

What really is unnatural, is that anyone can say that the life we see just popped out of the ground. We are intelligent enough to know what creation is, and the intelligence it take make things happen.

For example, I have been waiting for years for a Harley to evolve on to my driveway. It hasn't happened. The life that is on the earth is astronomically more complicated than that. And there are millions of different kinds of life, and these can reproduce and continue on.

 

Others have said it, but I will say it again - Go and get some education into what evolution really is. You have been obviously listening only to Christian apologists and their outrageous lies and distortions. By the way, there are many Christians who have no problem with evolution either.

[Ouroboros]

What really is unnatural, is that anyone can say that the life we see just popped out of the ground. We are intelligent enough to know what creation is, and the intelligence it take make things happen.

For example, I have been waiting for years for a Harley to evolve on to my driveway. It hasn't happened. The life that is on the earth is astronomically more complicated than that. And there are millions of different kinds of life, and these can reproduce and continue on.

This really what scientists are telling us.

You know that it's a sin to lie. The Bible tells you, no, it commands you, not to lie. But you are a all-out liar. You misrepresent science and scientists and make claims what science is and is not, and you demand science and scientists to be something they're not based on those false claims. Do you really, deep down in your heart, believe you will win converts for Jesus by so obviously lie to our faces?

 

I probably will only let you be around for a few days, and then I'll kick you out. You're nothing but a Christroll.

 

That it all just evolved out of the ground. It takes many years of schooling to get some to think like that. And it takes people, that just say scientists must know what they are talking about, to believe that as well.

I can see why people are against religions, I get that. The bible agrees with that also.

And you know that you are a liar, and that's the real reason why we don't believe you or your religion. We can't believe in lies, especially not yours.

[epignosis]

What percentage of the world throughout history, was atheist? This would be much more in line with reality: "The world we see today and through history, is man's world with God." All those believers believing resulted in what you see. The world we see today and through history, is man's world with erroneous beliefs about God(s).

 

You really don't know what you are talking about.

There is a need for man to have something that is more important than just himself, even scientists realize this. We were created with that need. But doesn't mean we know who God is or what he expects from us. So many people make up their own Gods, or belief system. There must be millions of Gods in the world. That doesn't mean just a deity to look to. It can mean what ever makes you feel secure or worthy of your attention.

So money, is for some, scientists theories for others, government, nationalism, gangs, organizations, etc. A belief system is not only to serve a God but it is what should bind all people together. But what we see is that this need has driven people apart. So it is obvious that the worship of a God including Christendom, through out the ages has not been incorrect.

But we also know that Satan is the ruler of this world, and man choose to follow him, and we see the result.

So people in Christendom that have left it, really only have given up one mode of worship of Satan for another, there is really no difference.

Many feel very uncomfortable supporting or being part of Christendom today, because of the obvious failings of these institutions.

This did not go unnoticed by God, because condemns Christendoms clergy the same as the Pharisees.

So from Gods point of view people that have left Christendom, have really taken one step in the right direction.

Now all of this does not make the bible incorrect, or what Jesus did as not meaningfully.

[Legion]

There is a need for man to have something that is more important than just himself...

We are social animals.

[Ouroboros]

There is a need for man to have something that is more important than just himself, even scientists realize this. We were created with that need.

Prove it.

 

But doesn't mean we know who God is or what he expects from us.

You believe you know God, but don't make assumptions about "us."

 

So many people make up their own Gods, or belief system.

Just like Christians.

 

There must be millions of Gods in the world.

And Christians invented three of them.

 

That doesn't mean just a deity to look to. It can mean what ever makes you feel secure or worthy of your attention.

So money, is for some, scientists theories for others, government, nationalism, gangs, organizations, etc. A belief system is not only to serve a God but it is what should bind all people together. But what we see is that this need has driven people apart. So it is obvious that the worship of a God including Christendom, through out the ages has not been incorrect.

Except when Christianity has driven people apart.

 

Do you know which two groups were fighting in Ireland until recently? Protestants against Catholics...

 

But we also know that Satan is the ruler of this world,

No. We don't.

 

blah, blah...

[epignosis]

Ha Ha

<<----------------------------- This is a photo of the moderator eating lunch.

[epignosis]

It seems the moderator has had a break down, and it seem no further posting could be done in a serious respectful way.

I enjoyed our short number of posting.

The moderator just couldn't take it any longer.

thanks anyway.

[BrotherJosh]

Aww, come on E-pig, you haven't even answered anyone's questions yet! How else will we get to know your super-awesome bible truth?? Don't leave us to fumble around in the dark! I grow weary of my fumbling. You haven't even answered my own questions yet...sad, sad. I was really hoping you would descend from Canada in a glorious holy light, and speak with a golden tongue truths that will baffle even the most enlightened. May your glory continue on undimmed forever E-pig.

[Legion]

Aww, come on E-pig, you haven't even answered anyone's questions yet! How else will we get to know your super-awesome bible truth?? Don't leave us to fumble around in the dark! I grow weary of my fumbling. You haven't even answered my own questions yet...sad, sad. I was really hoping you would descend from Canada in a glorious holy light, and speak with a golden tongue truths that will baffle even the most enlightened. May your glory continue on undimmed forever E-pig.

[agnosticator]

AGNOSTICATOR WROTE: What percentage of the world throughout history, was atheist? This would be much more in line with reality: "The world we see today and through history, is man's world with God." All those believers believing resulted in what you see. The world we see today and through history, is man's world with erroneous beliefs about God(s).

 

You really don't know what you are talking about.

 

Below are your quotes from this and other posts:

But doesn't mean we know who God is or what he expects from us. So many people make up their own Gods, or belief system......As for interpretation,.... the bible interprets itself. The reason Christendom doesn't know the bible is because they use their own interpretation....The bible condemns Christendom...

 

My comments were partly sarcasm, with a grain of truth. You admit that filling this need "doesn't mean we know who God is or what he expects from us." "Christendom" and the Bible are in the same boat. No one knows what God expects from us. Since you think the bible interprets itself, then what God expects is/should be plain, but you also admit no group of christians know, so the Bible does NOT interpret itself. It is NOT clearly written for christians who read it. To say it is clear and unified, is to label all christians as retarded. So, we have a multitude of interpretations. Your reasoning has led to this conclusion. The rest of what you posted fails, because it follows from your premise,"the Bible condemns Christendom, yet it interprets itself".

 

Whatever does all that have to do with all the christians that created and influence our society as it is today? What percentage are atheists who have influenced society?

[epignosis]

legion

 

I was really serious about this discussion.

But I guess some are are not..

The bible has a phrase

 

^{Matthew 7:6 (New International Version, ©2010)}

 

 

^{6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.}

 

^{I think this applies in this case} .

unless you can convince me otherwise, what's the point.

None of you given me even an idea to think about.

Where are the free thinkers that are supposed to be here? No just theories but substance with real world possibilities.

 

 

[Legion]

Epignosis why should I take you seriously? Can you offer me a reason?

[Ouroboros]

Epignosis why should I take you seriously? Can you offer me a reason?

His offering of being serious wouldn't be serious...

[BrotherJosh]

legion

 

I was really serious about this discussion.

But I guess some are are not..

The bible has a phrase

 

^{Matthew 7:6 (New International Version, ©2010)}

 

 

^{6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.}

 

^{I think this applies in this case} .

unless you can convince me otherwise, what's the point.

None of you given me even an idea to think about.

Where are the free thinkers that are supposed to be here? No just theories but substance with real world possibilities.

 

 

 

 

 

Yawn...*points to every previous post*.

 

You seem to have a hard time putting together a sentence, or even a proper argument. Again, I ask you to please start using spell-check before posting. Aside from that, you have not answered anyone's questions or even engaged in proper debate. You do not read anyone's posts, you merely see someone has posted and then copy and paste some bible verse, and spout off a vague metaphor. You have not provided evidence to back up any of your claims, I wonder if you have even read any apologist literature at all, at least they can participate in a lively discussion. You have stated nothing new in any single one of your posts. You have stated the same thing over and over and over again. You aren't responding in this thread, you are merely spamming at this point.

[SoulofSilver]

Wait, someone with his head up his ass (and proudly displays it in his icon) is accusing others of not being serious and giving any good arguments?

 

 

Interesting.