Sin was never part of God's plan

[Ouroboros]

Was he drooling over the fruit or the woman ... it could make a difference to the name of the sin!

 

True. With men you would never know. If it was a burger, pizza slice or a beer hanging from the tree, I know which one he would be looking at.

[Japedo]

It's interesting that the Bible says that Adam was with her when she was tempted and ate the fruit.

 

So he was to blame for the event, he just stood there as a fool in love and saw here commit the sin, and he just drooled and let her do it.

 

Maybe the original sin was stupidity?

 

Hmm, When I get home I'm going to have to restudied that story. For some reason I was under the impression that eve gathered up the fruit and brought it back to Adam to eat (??)

 

I don't remember him standing there in the story, but then again could be the ass of Gods church interpretation of the story that I grew up with?

 

Anyways I gotta run, bbl tonight!

[Ouroboros]

Hmm,  When I get home I'm going to have to restudied that story. For some reason I was under the impression that eve gathered up the fruit and brought it back to Adam to eat (??) 

 

I don't remember him standing there in the story, but then again could be the ass of Gods church interpretation of the story that I grew up with?    

 

Anyways I gotta run, bbl tonight!

 

6. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

[Alice]

Hmm,  When I get home I'm going to have to restudied that story. For some reason I was under the impression that eve gathered up the fruit and brought it back to Adam to eat (??) 

 

I don't remember him standing there in the story, but then again could be the ass of Gods church interpretation of the story that I grew up with?  

 

Anyways I gotta run, bbl tonight!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is quite funny ... clearly picking the fruit off the tree was the garden of eden eqivalent to shopping - so its hard to imagine Adam being there (unless he really had to)

[Ouroboros]

That is quite funny ... clearly picking the fruit off the tree was the garden of eden eqivalent to shopping - so its hard to imagine Adam being there (unless he really had to)

Or he was there like a true husband, but being bored to hell, so he just nodded when Even said "What about this fruit, does it make me look younger?", so he didn't notice she was picking the forbidden fruit.

[NimbusBirdMgp]

I have my interpretation of Adam & Eve's discription in the Bible as to what was it really about. The Ancient myth makers for transcripting what they didn't like about sex in the human race.

 

The Garden was the place for a couple to have their sex. The evil serpant (?) Was Adam's Penis. And I think it was Eve wanting to do things like having oral sex. And the ancient culture tried to get at this for their religious making and even trying to make this guilty on everyone to be as specific, as this was all made up in mataphor like this, to confuse others into their own guilt.

 

And the metaphor as to how these people see sex as sin, makes the most sense to me. Trying to lay this guilt trip on having fun sex, than propagation sex for subjugating others to this made up religion.

[Purple Rhino]

It's interesting that the Bible says that Adam was with her when she was tempted and ate the fruit.

 

So he was to blame for the event, he just stood there as a fool in love and saw here commit the sin, and he just drooled and let her do it.

 

Maybe the original sin was stupidity?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ok ok so Eve was tempted and Adam was tricked. Even though Adam saw Eve get tempted he still got tricked jesus he really did have NO knowledge at all did he.

 

But on the same line as ... well a different line really ... wasn't Eve a part of Adam even more so than a son is to his father? So wouldn;t Adam have been punished anyway for Eve taking the first bite of the serpents delicious juicy fruit?

 

PR

[Purple Rhino]

Or he was there like a true husband, but being bored to hell, so he just nodded when Even said "What about this fruit, does it make me look younger?", so he didn't notice she was picking the forbidden fruit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh was the Fruit on SALE?

 

Wouldn't itbe more of a sin to pass up a good bargain?

 

PR

[Ouroboros]

Oh was the Fruit on SALE?

 

Wouldn't itbe more of a sin to pass up a good bargain?

 

PR

 

The laughing smiley can't laugh as much as I was!!! Very Funny!

 

I have a story connecting to this. Very short.

 

One of my sons was out yesterday with some friends. They were supposed to be a mixed group of friends, but only 3 girls showed up.

 

The girls didn't want to see the movie, so they wanted to shop instead.

 

When I picked up my son, he was irritated and frustrated, complaining about the girls only wanted to window shopping and he only tagged along and had nothing to do. He had been bored out of his skin!

 

So I told him... welcome to the real world...

[Purple Rhino]

 

 

The laughing smiley can't laugh as much as I was!!! Very Funny!

 

I have a story connecting to this. Very short.

 

One of my sons was out yesterday with some friends. They were supposed to be a mixed group of friends, but only 3 girls showed up.

 

The girls didn't want to see the movie, so they wanted to shop instead.

 

When I picked up my son, he was irritated and frustrated, complaining about the girls only wanted to window shopping and he only tagged along and had nothing to do. He had been bored out of his skin!

 

So I told him... welcome to the real world...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The earlier they learn the better off they'll be!

 

Now you can teach him how to appologize for everything under the sun just to shut 'em up!

 

PR

 

Ooops (If any feminists read this PR was taken over by a nasty, nasty entity he is in no way responsible for a sexist statement.)

[Ouroboros]

The earlier they learn the better off they'll be!

 

Now you can teach him how to appologize for everything under the sun just to shut 'em up!

 

PR

 

Ooops (If any feminists read this PR was taken over by a nasty, nasty entity he is in no way responsible for a sexist statement.)

I told him the reason why I have a pocket-pc telephone... so I can play games while I'm waiting outside the dressing room...

[Purple Rhino]

I told him the reason why I have a pocket-pc telephone... so I can play games while I'm waiting outside the dressing room...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Technoogy ... keeping men from being bored one connection at a time

 

PR

[Cerise]

Oh like I haven't been bored to tears waiting for the menfolk to get the fuck outta electronics departments or Home Depots enough times.

 

Trust me, no matter how long me and my girls can shop, guys are taking much longer picking out some silly drill bits or whatever it is that is so enthralling in the aisles of hardware stores.

 

Unless, of course, they decide to spend an obscene amount of money on something they don't need (i.e. a sub-woofer). That can take bare seconds.

 

[Ouroboros]

Oh like I haven't been bored to tears waiting for the menfolk to get the fuck outta electronics departments or Home Depots enough times.

 

Trust me, no matter how long me and my girls can shop, guys are taking much longer picking out some silly drill bits or whatever it is that is so enthralling in the aisles of hardware stores.

 

Unless, of course, they decide to spend an obscene amount of money on something they don't need (i.e. a sub-woofer).  That can take bare seconds.

 

 

Sadly and unwillingly I have to admit that is the truth...

[Japedo]

QUOTE(Genesis 3)

6. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

 

 

 

In the same Book Chap 3, Adam blames Eve, as does God, Adam makes no reference to a snake or creature but blames Eve. God does punish the snake , but also when punishing Adam makes the reference to the reason of listening to his wife and never mentions the snake. Of course we are dealing with the bible here, which isn't called the Hole-E By bull for nothing, I suppose many interpretations can and do exist with this story.

 

9 - And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where [art] thou?

10 - And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I [was] naked; and I hid myself.

11 - And he said, Who told thee that thou [wast] naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

12 - And the man said,  The woman whom thou gavest [to be] with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

13 - And the LORD God said unto the woman, What [is] this [that] thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

14 - And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16 -   Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 

17 - And unto Adam he said, Because   thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;

[Alice]

Paul blames the woman, without a doubt....

 

1 Timothy 2:

 

11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

 

Sounds sexist to me and promoted by Paulianity at that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thankful,

 

I think you missed the point of my post - the comment that I was responding to was a suggestion that the creation story had 'created' gender inequality. My understanding is that these stories were 'explanations' of why things are as they are. I'm not disputing in anyway that these stories haven't been picked up and elaborated on and used to perpetuate sexism ... but that sexism existed long before the story.

 

The story had been around for a very long time before Paul got hold of it!

 

And of course sexism exists outside of christianity and islam. That's why I don't think we can lay the blame for 'being the root cause of sexism' at the door of religion (although religion has certainly played a part in perpetuating the same)

[Ouroboros]

In the same Book Chap 3,  Adam blames Eve, as does God, Adam makes no reference to a snake  or  creature  but blames Eve. God does punish the snake , but also when punishing  Adam makes the reference to  the reason of listening to his wife and never mentions the snake.   Of course we are dealing with the bible here, which  isn't called the Hole-E By bull  for nothing, I suppose many interpretations  can  and do exist with this story.

Of course he did. He lied! It was one of the first fibs. He denied to have part of the responsibility. As we guys alwasy do. We point finger.

 

But God was obviously not omniscient and saw through the lie.

Which proves God as even more incompetent.

 

He creates the universe in whooping 6 days, with quantum mechanics and genetic coding and brain noodles, and have no clue what happened in the garden? God could have created some vidcams and a recorder for crying out loud! Or a cellphone with camera! We have enough cameras in New York to cover the whole garden of Eden, so God could've checked in with the HSA (Heavenly Security Agency) before he started to ask the questions.

 

That God doesn't exist, gets more clear every day, when I realise we can do better than him! So many people died in the OT and NT time of sickness that God wouldn't/couldn't heal, which we can heal today. What's up with that? God could have given the inspiration to antibiotics and the whole medicinal science 4-5000 years ago, if he was so busy to NOT heal people.

 

God is a fucking selfcentered and egotistic moron!

 

Sorry for my rant. My doctor told me I need to do that once a day...

[Japedo]

Okay, so your rant blew my hair back a little.

 

In all seriousness, you're correct, The more you look into the simple bases of these bible stories the more evil it is.

 

God rewards lies thru out the entire bible, Look at the story Jacob and Esau. lying to the blind Isaac Jacob stole the birthright and God rewards him for it. No justice what so ever for Esau. Just goes to show lying and cheating are pleasing to god, Honesty and Justice are secondary when the pressures on. :angry:

[Valgeir]

The whole thing with blaming women for sin, I think tends to be a Pauline Christian thing, as if you talk to any Jewish person, they would probably say that Adam and Eve are both to blame, because while Eve had the first bite, Adam had the knowledge that he wasn't supposed to do it and did it anyway.

 

He couldn't have made that decision, he hadn't eaten the fruit yet. He didn't know that disobeying the big bearded guy was wrong.

[LloydDobler]

something they don't need (i.e. a sub-woofer).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR CRAZY MOON LANGUAGE.

[Burry The Rag]

Does that mean that murder, adultery, stealing and such wasn't a sin either until the law was given??  If sin wasn't sin until "the law" then why did god punish the world via flood for sinning?

 

Oh, yes and since "the law" has been abolished, according to mainstreamers does that now mean that incest is okay?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Thankful & Japedo,

 

Awesome post, very insightful. You are right. I asked my "much smarter than me buddy" who commented, "You really backed yourself into a corner." I asked another "much smarter than me friend” who said "Just got back from France last night so I'm not going to touvh the philospohical on 3 hours of sleep and 20 hours of transit." (Note: He is usually a much better speller.)

 

I realize now this does not stand up. Hopefully Sleepy World Traveler can vindicate me, but I'm wondering how.

 

Peace!

 

BtR

[Japedo]

Hey Thankful & Japedo,

 

Awesome post, very insightful. You are right. I asked my "much smarter than me buddy" who commented, "You really backed yourself into a corner." I asked another "much smarter than me friend” who said "Just got back from France last night so I'm not going to touvh the philospohical on 3 hours of sleep and 20 hours of transit." (Note: He is usually a much better speller.)

 

I realize now this does not stand up. Hopefully Sleepy World Traveler can vindicate me, but I'm wondering how.

 

Peace!

 

BtR

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTR,

 

You don't need to go asking "much smarter" people for an obvious answer. The answer is staring you in the face and all of the mental acrobats you try to do to make the theory fly, it just isn't.

 

From your point of View, Common sense and Logic are God given qualities are they not? Do you not believe a creator that created us to question, seek the truth gave us the capability's to find answers? This is the problem, weigh the facts out for yourself and see things as they are, now how someone twists them into some hidden meaning that supports an obscure theory. If the Theory (or faith) is Right, it will stand on its own with out false support. Things either are, or they aren't.

 

 

 

Once you start looking at everything just as they are, you'll be less confused.

 

Trust your own logic, Trust your own questions, I know it's scary to do at first but You'll break free of tunnel vision if/when you do. There are a few answers to people being Punished before the Law was actually given.

 

1) God isn't really just and fair

 

2) Man is fallible, hence the story is. Because Men are the actual authors of the Bible

 

I'm sure there are a few other plausible answers, but none of them you will probably like.

 

 

Tribes wrote it, which would also explain the tribal mentality thru-out it. How come the oh so Merciful God never chooses Justice for all involved over Vengeance? How come the "Enemies" (other tribes) never win?

 

 

Answer me these questions:

 

Lot flees the Cities after offering his own children to the crazy mob to be raped. God saves Lot because he's righteous and well, Lot then gets rewarded by not only having sex with his daughters in the cave, but he gets to be the father of his own grandchildren. How is it Fair he kills people for 'sin" and rewards lot for an egregious action?

 

 

Or how about Jacob and Esau. Jacob is rewarded as are his descendants for being deceitful, lying and stealing his brothers birth-right, and tricking his blind father.

 

Or how about Abraham who has a child out of wedlock, He loves his son until Sarah gives birth then he forces his First child out into the wilderness and basically abandons his child and it's mother.

 

Moses Murdered an Egyptian Guard, and fleas the Justice system and is rewarded by God. Also God controls and hardens Pharos Heart and then Punishes the People of Egypt for it. Pharos had Zero say over "letting the people" go as God controlled his heart the whole time, thus killing all the first born Egyptians.

 

 

These are just a few, again I ask A Just God? A Fair God? Or are the writers of the Bible tribal giving their "tribe" Favortism and just say it's from God?