Flick Of The Switch

[wishful]

I have been very confuse this past few weeks, For a long time I had doubts in my love for Jesus..... this is very hard for me to talk about so bare with me... I must note that I really did not want to come back here EVER!!! only because of the fear of being ridiculed. I guess this post really goes to Antlerman... He seems to be the only person who talks with some respect. I don't care for the others here, only because some of them come off being really rude. Antlerman was the only person I really enjoyed talking to..

 

But in any case, I could say I have had some doubt for long time... but I kept that buried deep in side me. I feel that Jesus would help me over come. I would visit a ton of Christians websites and asked some tough question and I got what I wanted to hear but.. that was not enough for me... So I came here to test my faith, who better then a bunch of Ex-Christians. I just wanted to see the other side of the story. I have come across some new information that I never knew that open my eyes to something big.

 

For example "Life events shared by Osiris, Dionysus and Jesus " I would also like to add Krishna and Horus. This just blew my mind. So I took a step back and something just click in my head. I'll be honest I cried for days and I'm still crying even now. I felt that someone real close to me had died, and I think that was my faith of Jesus. He failed to answer my prayers for me to keep my faith. Even now I'm still struggling, I still have hope that Jesus will appear to me. I still go to church.... because I still love the music and my friends.. As for my husband.. I'm not going to get into details, but he and I are having are own personal problems. I have been living at my sister's house and we have been exchanging phone calls and e-mails. THAT'S all I have to say about that. I still would like to keep my personal life personal.

 

I would like to ask for help in making me understand some things that are still very confusing. My husband and I have been debating threw e-mail and he has asked me to send him question that I found that could not be answered by Christians and that led to my struggle with my faith in Jesus.

 

 

So would it be ok for you guys/gals to help me open my mind even further.

 

 

thanks

 

Wishful

[Spoomonkey]

As for my husband.. I'm not going to get into details, but he and I are having are own personal problems.

 

I was once in your shoes.

 

I begged God to step in and keep his promises.

 

He didn't.

 

I am now here - as an ex-Christian - and happier than I have ever been. It is quite amazing - even losing a career in ministry - and yet, I have found peace.

 

Good luck to you. It ultimately is a good path you're now on.

 

Spoomonkey

[Ouroboros]

Wishful,

 

That's the purpose of this website. To help anyone in your situation.

 

Many of us went through the same kind of struggle that you're going through right now. And we cried too.

 

I still remember that day, when my faith was really shaking and I couldn't make myself believe anymore. I asked God to give me anything, sign, miracle, vision... just anything that would convince me that he existed. ... and I'm still waiting. That was just a few years ago.

 

For these last years I've been a part of this website, we have been visited by Christians at many occasions, and for a while I wanted to hear a proof or some convincing argument that would once and for all make me a believer again. But so far, there has been nothing that make sense or can turn me around again. I wouldn't mind it if God really did exist and for me to believe again, but this time around in my life, I have to KNOW, not just assume, guess, or wish that he exists. I have to know for sure. But as time goes by, the more I've seen that most likely there will never be any argument to convince me again. For me to believe in Jesus or God now is like asking a grown up to believe in Santa Claus. I honestly don't see any difference between those differen fictional characters.

 

And Wishful, I think your post was the most honest and touching one so far from you. I rarely have any time to respond much, but if you start asking the questions and expect to get very hurtfully true and straight answers then there are many here that will take you up on that.

 

Just remember, truth will not only set you free, but it hurts too.

 

--edit--

 

So you need a question that can't be answered by Christians?

 

1) Who created God? If we're so complex that there must have been a creator, is God less complex since he doesn't need one, or is he so complex that he also got a creator?

 

2) If we can't be moral without a God, then how can God be moral without a Super-God?

 

3) If we must have a God to have a purpose and meaning to life, then what about God? Does he need a Super-God to have a purpose and meaning to his life, or can he have it without a supreme being? If he can be without it, and we're an image of him, then why can't we also have a meaning and purpose without God?

 

4) Jesus told the Sanhedrin that he didn't do anything in secret, but at the same time he talked in riddles to the people and told the answers to the disciples in secrecy. Either the Gospels are wrong in one or the other part, or Jesus was lying.

 

5) Was the sacrifice of Jesus just a pagan human sacrifice? It does look exactly like one. The gods can only be perfectly pleased if you made a human blood sacrificed. But wasn't that against the Jewish law made by God himself?

 

6) If you have to be a Christian to be moral, how come 2/3:s of the world that is not Christian can create cultures where they don't kill each other and establish moral laws? Sweden where you have 70% agnostic/atheists have only 1/4 of the crimes compared to US. Shouldn't the immoral non-Christians be running amok over there and cause huge number of crimes? Why don't they? If the answer is that God implanted the moral code into the human heart, then why do we hear the argument that we need to be Christian to be moral? If God already put it there in everyone, then Christianity isn't needed.

 

and much more... later.

[Deva]

Well, Wishful, I am not Antlerman, but I sympathize with your post. I have been through some confusing times where I desperately wanted to believe, so I do understand. You seem to be going through a rough time right now.

 

If there is any specific issue that is bothering you please let me know, and if I can think of something that might be constructive or helpful to you from my own experience, I will answer you.

[white_raven23]

Dear Wishful,

 

Some of the guys keyed in that something was amiss. I won't lie, you've got a hard row to hoe ahead. It won't be easy. But we are all here to help.

 

My first concern is your immediate safety. I think you need to talk to a Mod (Han Solo or Skip N Church) about creating a new Ex-C Forum identity immediately. If your husband wants to monitor your online activity, I doubt he'd be thrilled to see you posting here without him staring over your shoulder. Much less se that you have come to this crossroads. We can pass amongst ourselves that [newID] used to be Wishful. None of us would ever share the new ID with your husband.

 

Of course that only works so long as you keep the new ID secret too.

 

Talk to one of the mods. And if this post of mine "mysteriously" disappears in the interest of covering tracks....all well and good. Heck....I'll delete it myself if someone lets me know.

[Legion]

Wishful, I think that was among the bravest posts that I have seen here.

[wishful]

Dear Wishful,

 

Some of the guys keyed in that something was amiss. I won't lie, you've got a hard row to hoe ahead. It won't be easy. But we are all here to help.

 

My first concern is your immediate safety. I think you need to talk to a Mod (Han Solo or Skip N Church) about creating a new Ex-C Forum identity immediately. If your husband wants to monitor your online activity, I doubt he'd be thrilled to see you posting here without him staring over your shoulder. Much less se that you have come to this crossroads. We can pass amongst ourselves that [newID] used to be Wishful. None of us would ever share the new ID with your husband.

 

Of course that only works so long as you keep the new ID secret too.

 

Talk to one of the mods. And if this post of mine "mysteriously" disappears in the interest of covering tracks....all well and good. Heck....I'll delete it myself if someone lets me know.

 

 

Thank you White, I am very happy that you do care about my safety and that goes for the rest of you, Han, Deva, Spoo. As far as my husband goes he is not a hurtful person, he would never lay a finger on me. I will admit he is more verbal if anything, as for him coming here. I doubt it, he would rather change a car engine then try to figure out how to use a computer. I have deleted all my web favorites on our home computer. All he really knows is how to use E-mail. All the other times he had help from a family friend. As of right now he is out of town.

 

I'm waiting for him to re-send a e-mail I sent him. More then likely he is calling our pastor for help on this one.

 

 

 

This is what I sent him. I told him that among other things, this was a big eye opener for me.

 

 

The story of Horus, a major Egyptian God, is told in the “Book of Vivifying the Soul Forever” over 3,000 years before the birth of Christ.

 

The Jesus story in the Bible is a recycled version of the Horus story. The comparisons given below prove without a doubt that the whole Bible is full of myths and stories recycled from earlier times and made to fit the various characters of the Bible.

 

 

 

 

EGYPTIAN MESSIAH—HORUS BIBLICAL MESSIAH—JESUS

1 Horus is the Father seen in the son..

Jesus said he was the way, the truth and the life.

2 Horus claims to be the light of the world represented by the symbolic eye, the sign of salvation.

Jesus stated that he is the light of the world.

3 Horus said that he was the way, the truth, the life.

Jesus said he was the way, the truth and the life.

4 Horus was the plant, the shoot.

Jesus says "I am the true vine."

5 Horus says “It is I who traverse the heavens, I go round the Elysian Fields. Eternity has been assigned to me without end, Lo! I am heir to endless time and my attribute is eternity.

Jesus says “I am come down from heaven, for this is the will of the Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son and believeth in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

6 Horus—I open the Tuat that I may drive away the darkness.

Jesus says I am come a light unto the world.

7 Horus says “I am equipped with thy words O Ra [Father in Heaven] and repeat them to those who are deprived of breath.” These were the words of the Father in heaven.

Jesus says “The Father which sent me, he hath given me a command-ment, what I should say and what I should speak. Whatsoever I speak therefore even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. The word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me."

8 Horus baptized with water by Anup.

Jesus baptized with water by John the Baptist.

9 Horus—Aan, the name of the divine scribe.

Jesus—John the divine scribe.

10 Horus born in Annu, the place of bread.

Jesus Born in Bethlehem, the house of bread.

11 Horus The good shepherd with the crook on his shoulders.

Jesus The good shepherd with a lamb on his shoulders.

12 Horus Seven on board the boat with him.

Jesus Seven fishermen on board the boat with Jesus.

13 Horus Depicted as the Lamb

Jesus depicted as the lamb.

14 Horus as the Lion.

Jesus as the lion.

15 Horus identified with the Tat or cross.

Jesus identified with the cross.

16 Horus of 12 years.

Jesus of 12 years.

17 Horus A man of 30 years.

Jesus a man of 30 years at his baptism.

18 Horus the KRST.

Jesus the Christ.

19 Horus the manifesting son of God.

Jesus the manifesting son of God.

20 Horus The trinity—Atum the Father, Horus the son, Ra the Holy Spirit.

Jesus—God the Father, Jesus the son, and the Holy Spirit.

21 Horus The first Horus as a child of the virgin, the second as son of Ra.

Jesus as a child of the virgin, Christ as the son of the Father in heaven.

22 Horus—Horus the sender and Set the destroyer in the harvest field. Jesus—

Jesus the sender or the good seed, Satan the sender of tares.

23 Horus carried off by Set to the summit of Mount Hetep.

Jesus carried by Satan to an exceedingly high mountain.

24 Horus and Set contending on the Mount.

Jesus and Satan contending on the Mount.

25 Horus—The star was the announcer of the child Horus.

Jesus—The Star in the East indicated the birth-place of Jesus.

26 Horus—the avenger.

Jesus who brings the sword.

27 Horus—as Iu-em-hetep comes with peace.

Jesus—the bringer of peace.

28 Horus—the afflicted one.

Jesus—the afflicted one.

29 Horus—as the type of life eternal. 30

Jesus—as the type of life eternal.

30 Horus as Iu-em-hetep the child teacher in the temple.

Jesus as the child teacher in the temple.

31 Horus The mummy bandage was woven without seam.

Jesus The vesture of the Christ was without seam.

32 Horus As Har-Khutti has twelve followers. 32

Jesus has twelve disciples.

33 Horus The revelation written down by divine scribe Aan (Tehuti).

Jesus the Revelation written down by John the Divine.

34 Horus—Aani bears witness to the word of Ra.

Jesus—John bears witness to the word of God and testimony of Jesus Christ.

35 Horus The secret mysteries revealed by That-Aan.

Jesus The secret mysteries made known by John.

36 Horus The morning star.

Jesus The morning star.

37 Horus Who gives the morning star to his followers.

Jesus who gives the morning star to his followers.

38 Horus The name of Ra on the head of the deceased.

Jesus The name of the father written on the forehead.

39 Horus The paradise of the Pole star—Am-Khemen.

Jesus The Holy City lighted by one luminary that is neither the sun nor the moon.

40 Horus Har-Seshu or servants of Horus.

Jesus The servants of Jesus Christ.

[white_raven23]

Wishful, do you know how the books in the Bible came to be in the Bible? Or even which bible is THE bible?

 

This is long.....and it might contain material that would make your head spin. I only wish the author had clearly cited his sources, but it's easy to verify that kind of thing by googling.

 

http://www.atheists.org/christianity/realbible.html

[Piprus]

Dear Wishful,

 

Thank you for being honest. You are in a very vulnerable position right now in your life. Rest assured, no one here would want to take advantage of that to lead you astray, but just share with you some of the issues that took us away from christianity.

 

I left christianity 40 years ago, long before this site or the internet existed. I left because there were issues that had no believable answers, such as:

1. If Jesus was God, why did he violate his own laws? (Jesus as described in the NT is a sorcerer. He raised the dead, walked on water, changed water to wine, cursed a fig tree to kill it, and multiplied food in his hands to feed 5000 people. These are acts of sorcery that were forbidden.) God (Jesus) therefore violated his own Law against sorcery, yet the christians maintain God does not violate his own laws?

2. God created man. God is omniscient, and knows the future. He therefore knew man upon his creation would be sinful and deserving of punishment in hell, yet he allowed the process to proceed anyway? God is either unimaginably cruel, or the whole thing is a fable.

3. Hell was not an OT concept. Why the difference between the OT and NT theology? In other words, at what point did hell get created, when in the OT tradition death was simply death?

4. Peter (apostle 1) was supposed to create the church. The church is described as the "bride of Christ". Yet, this church, from its launch, has been in turmoil. Massacres and atrocities have been committed in the name of the "true" church. Don't you think that the almighty God would at least have wanted his "bride" to be "pure"?

5. Satan. The omniscient God would have seen in advance the havoc to be wrought by allowing Satan to exist. Why not just shut him up from day one? And that story of Job...really...does it make sense for the God of the Universe to be making a petty wager with Satan over a man's life? Clearly...just a fable.

6. Why is there no evidence that Jesus Christ ever existed outside of the gospel stories? Don't you think that if this supposed greatest revelation of God to humankind happened that there would be no mistake about it? No basis whatsoever to question it?

 

This is just a sampling. I could go on and on, asking questions, and so could the other members here, and they could probably add other questions that I have not thought about. All it takes is applying reason and rational thought.

 

You've given thought to the comparison of Horus to Jesus. That isn't the only godman myth that parallels the Jesus story. There are others, such as Mithras, Krishna, and even Buddha. The godman myth is pervasive in oriental religious traditions. But they're myths, and they can be traced to the oldest religion of all, sun-worship.

 

I've only touched on a few things. You're on your own journey to knowledge, and I wish you well. I hope you'll become a regular member here.

[Antlerman]

I have been very confuse this past few weeks, For a long time I had doubts in my love for Jesus..... this is very hard for me to talk about so bare with me... I must note that I really did not want to come back here EVER!!! only because of the fear of being ridiculed. I guess this post really goes to Antlerman... He seems to be the only person who talks with some respect. I don't care for the others here, only because some of them come off being really rude. Antlerman was the only person I really enjoyed talking to..

Wow, I’m both deeply touched and surprised. I actually didn’t sense this about you. I’m sorry to hear of your situation, both at home and going through a crisis of faith – both are equally confusing and stressful.

 

I want to apologize that I turned a bit flippant at one point, then totally sarcastic when Marks appeared. It’s very out of character for me to become that harsh towards someone, but he just smacked of insincerity, disrespect, and hypocrisy to me and I just let go my cutting edge on him. I’m sorry if I said anything that was disrespectful towards you in that unleashing at them. I did at least try to qualify that you seemed much more human to me in our conversations, and I both recognized and appreciated that.

 

But in any case, I could say I have had some doubt for long time... but I kept that buried deep in side me. I feel that Jesus would help me over come. I would visit a ton of Christians websites and asked some tough question and I got what I wanted to hear but.. that was not enough for me... So I came here to test my faith, who better then a bunch of Ex-Christians. I just wanted to see the other side of the story. I have come across some new information that I never knew that open my eyes to something big.

I think for me, and really I see for most people, is that the real issue is that what once worked, what once gave the answers you needed at that time, no longer meets you where you have grown to, or are growing towards. At a time, Christianity worked for me because I was looking for black and white, clear-cut answers to give me stability in my life coming out of a home with a dysfunctional sibling who diverted my parent’s attention away from the needs I had for boundaries and assurances that I was cared for. As I became mature and finding myself and growing, I found the simplistic answers from the pulpits were not only not speaking to me, they actually were confusing and hurting me to finding what I felt inside. If you want to read more about that about my experiences and history, you can see my “testimony” on this site here: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=6730&hl=

 

As you learn more about the origins, the history, and the diversity of views with Christianity, you will come to see that it’s very much a human story. To me, it’s about humans seeking to understand themselves, applying the face of a god to it. You’ll see everything, from the “prophets” to the scribes, to the teachers, to the church councils, to the institutions are all humans in search of themselves. It’s imperfect, because humans are imperfect. Is God a real being “out there”? To me God is a sentiment. A reflection of what we want to be. And the tragic thing is that sometimes that takes the face of controlling others, condemning others, judging them, criticizing them, and justifying all of it by using a name that “transcends” themselves: “God”. But at the same token, “Love” is the highest ideal in the human experience, and to call this “God” I have no objection to – though I myself hesitate to do so as it has too much baggage.

 

I don’t believe a literal God exists, but I do believe in Love. I believe in dreams, in imagination, in poetry, in beauty. If you wish to call this God, you may and I will respect that. But my only advise to you is that you open the doors of possibility for yourself. If it’s of any help, if you wish to hold to belief that God exists, than consider that that God would respect you for being true to yourself, to cherishing those good and noble qualities that makes life meaningful for yourself and for the world around you. “There is no condemnation” to those who desire ‘right”. “Sincerity”, Wishful. That is the highest quality of a human life. Be true to your heart, and you honor yourself and life itself.

 

I am “wishful” for you, in your difficulties at this time. Rather I would say, I’m hopeful for you. I very much admire your sincere candor here.

[wishful]

Thank you Piprus, there are few things you said there that I never really thought about. Thank you White there is alot to take in there from that link, I would have to sit down and take my time reading it.

 

Well I got a reponse from my husband, It does seem that he must had help from our paster but here is his e-mail.

 

i wont cut and paste the whole rebuttal to your e-mail but here it is:

 

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycatwho1.html

 

also, weren't horus, osiris, dionysus etc simply mythical figures, like Zeus and Apollo and Athena? in other words, they weren't real people. If you are trying to suggest that Jesus was not a real person, then you have a tough road to hoe.

 

Try spending less time on the atheist websites ( and you know what one I'm talking about) and go on to some good christian apologetics sites(www.ankerberg.com, www.reasons.org, www.str.org). It will be better for your soul.... here is another site

 

https://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/156

 

 

He then goes on to talk about our personal problems, that I will not post here.

[Guest E. Scott Cragg]

Wishful,

 

Please excuse me, as I am a newcomer to ex-Christian.net, but I have just spent the past week reading through your exchanges on this board. To see you write this, and the confusion and pain you now describe brings back memories of when my own 'switch was flicked', and I realized that I could no longer profess to believe. "I'm not Christian"... I must have repeated that to myself over and over for hours, It didn't sound right. Nothing felt right. I felt alone, scared, and insignificant. In a moment I had gone from best friends to the biggest and most important guy in the universe, to just a tiny spec of dust in it.

 

That was a decade ago... and in that decade I've learned far more about the universe, and our place in it, that I ever even conceived there was to know. I look back now, today, at my Christian years and it almost feels silly that I was willing to dismiss learning about the magnificence of the world around me and simply accept such a simplistic anthropomorphism of a jealous, vengeful deity.

 

There is more to life than crime and punishment.

 

That leaves Jesus.

 

I have to admit (and this is heresy for an Atheist/Deist;)) That I still like Jesus. I know some of his ideas were a bit kooky, but considering the time he lived in, he was a pretty cool guy who was ultimately interested (It seems to me) in the beauty of the individual over the rules and laws of society (He didn't advocate ignoring the laws, of course, but he still basically said that the laws are important, but the individual comes first).

 

The thing is, when you're a christian, Jesus, the concept (which absolutely exists in your mind) becomes a figurehead for all that is good in life. Love, friendship, companionship, compassion, beauty... I remember, vividly, being terrified that by forgoing Jesus, I was actively giving up all of these thing sin my life. That Hell would become a place on Earth because by giving up Jesus as a real person, I'd give up all that made life good.

 

A funny thing happens though... first off, you realize that voice of comfort and love inside you won't go away. The Jesus that _actually_ exists isn't or wasn't ever a man in the sense that you and I are a person, the Jesus that exists for you Is the name you have given the part of your own person who provides all those things above you use to get from "Him". Furthermore, once you realize that Jesus still exists, and she's been you this whole time, you suddenly have an opportunity to explore her far more. Take ownership of the love within you, take ownership of all that beautiful in your life, and all that makes you happy, and all that makes you a good person. Once free of the dogma, and the guilt, and the suspicion, and the control, you are finally free to welcome this whole side of your own person you've otherwise only ever considered in the third person.

 

Perhaps that's why Jesus is unwilling to answer your prayers and fill you with the emotion of faith any further... Perhaps its because she's decided (being in your sub-conscious) that it is time you step forward and get to know who she is, and who you are, without further interference from Dogma?

 

Wow... ok, I just got going there and I wrote a Novel... Sorry about that;)

 

I hope this makes some sense... I really do. And I wish you the best in your enlightenment.

 

-Scott

[Taphophilia]

Wishful,

 

((((Hugs))))

 

I wish I could hug you in person, I really do. I'm so proud of you for thinking for yourself and standing up for yourself, finally. You deserve respect! I'm so glad for you that you are out of that situation. Some of the things your husband said about you to us, a group of strangers, were uncalled for. If he said that to us, I could only imagine the things he said to you. You deserve better that that! You deserve to be treated like a person.

 

This is the same issue that made me question my faith. I did not want to lose my faith in Jesus. I wanted to believe, with all my heart I wanted to believe. I prayed and prayed to God to show me, anything, that Christianity was true. For almost a year, I thought that if I died I was going to hell, because I just could not believe any longer. It was a difficult time and I cried a lot also.

 

Here's a good site you might want to check out.

 

Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth

 

Taph

[wishful]

Thank you Antlerman, I will have to admit some of my posts were infected with my husbands words. I do understand why you would be a little upset. There was a breaking point I had when every time I logged in my husband would jump in and change my posts. That's when I told how to sign up and post here. You always seem to know to explain things a little better then most people and I admire that. I still have a hard time letting go. I guess you can say... I was in the closet about my true feelings and coming here made me more comfortable with my true feels and YOU came off very nice and that was unexpected. I already pre judged everyone who said they were ex-Christians. I was wrong

[white_raven23]

Thank you Piprus, there are few things you said there that I never really thought about. Thank you White there is alot to take in there from that link, I would have to sit down and take my time reading it.

 

Well I got a reponse from my husband, It does seem that he must had help from our paster but here is his e-mail.

 

i wont cut and paste the whole rebuttal to your e-mail but here it is:

 

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycatwho1.html

 

also, weren't horus, osiris, dionysus etc simply mythical figures, like Zeus and Apollo and Athena? in other words, they weren't real people. If you are trying to suggest that Jesus was not a real person, then you have a tough road to hoe.

 

Try spending less time on the atheist websites ( and you know what one I'm talking about) and go on to some good christian apologetics sites(www.ankerberg.com, www.reasons.org, www.str.org). It will be better for your soul.... here is another site

 

https://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/156

 

 

He then goes on to talk about our personal problems, that I will not post here.

 

 

Zeus Apollo and Athena were believed to be very REAL in their heyday. Same goes for Horus. Your husband is looking at the past with they eyes of the present in terms of what people believed to be "real". Temples were built to those gods. You don't build temples to "myths". This is like a movie with the plot set in the 1940's showing a 1967 mustang parked at the curb, and the director just says "a car is a car".

 

You can always ask him if he really thinks people living 4000 years from now will believe Jesus christ was any less a myth either. Or don't, because he'll probably answer easily with something about the world ending before then. Convienient isn't it?

[Japedo]

Hi Wishful.

 

My first words to reading this heart wrenching post is just wow. You are one of the last posters I would have ever gathered a guess were looking for answers. Coming back here, making this post shows more character and strength in a person then I can possibly convey. No matter how your road to faith or lack there of turns out, I'm extremely proud of you for at least looking for answers, no matter how those answers may disappoint or set you free.

 

I would like to add.. the Deeper the "Love" for god.. the harder the crash and burn when reality hits you in the face. The more a person is committed and lives their life for a belief..the more devastating the grief and despair. The deeper the shock and trauma. You have a good sounding board here and many people are full of wisdom and wonderful advice.

 

I remember when my switch flipped.. it wasn't over 'God" it was over Christianity.. I still held on deeply to the thought of God for quite a while. I remember being physically ill to the point I was throwing up. Tears, rage, anger... contempt.. depression, panic, despair, loneliness all seemed to be happening at the same time. It was to much, I was on an emotional overdrive with fears so great it consumed me for awhile. Over time you learn acceptance, you pick up broken parts and start seeing all the great parts, but it can't be forced. You must travel your own road and your own process and your own time. I'm at acceptance with my own 'walk' but.. the religion itself creates anger at times. (as I'm sure you remember witnessing.) As I still have members of my family whom are ' holy rollers' and are convinced I'm going to burn.

 

 

I think things are equally as devastating that you are also having a problem with your marriage. I'm deeply sorry for all that your going thru and I would take WRs advice it seems the most sound. I wish you much luck in your journey for truth.

[wishful]

Thank you Piprus, there are few things you said there that I never really thought about. Thank you White there is alot to take in there from that link, I would have to sit down and take my time reading it.

 

Well I got a reponse from my husband, It does seem that he must had help from our paster but here is his e-mail.

 

i wont cut and paste the whole rebuttal to your e-mail but here it is:

 

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycatwho1.html

 

also, weren't horus, osiris, dionysus etc simply mythical figures, like Zeus and Apollo and Athena? in other words, they weren't real people. If you are trying to suggest that Jesus was not a real person, then you have a tough road to hoe.

 

Try spending less time on the atheist websites ( and you know what one I'm talking about) and go on to some good christian apologetics sites(www.ankerberg.com, www.reasons.org, www.str.org). It will be better for your soul.... here is another site

 

https://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/156

 

 

He then goes on to talk about our personal problems, that I will not post here.

 

 

Zeus Apollo and Athena were believed to be very REAL in their heyday. Same goes for Horus. Your husband is looking at the past with they eyes of the present in terms of what people believed to be "real". Temples were built to those gods. You don't build temples to "myths". This is like a movie with the plot set in the 1940's showing a 1967 mustang parked at the curb, and the director just says "a car is a car".

 

You can always ask him if he really thinks people living 4000 years from now will believe Jesus christ was any less a myth either. Or don't, because he'll probably answer easily with something about the world ending before then. Convienient isn't it?

 

 

Thank you. I never really knew much about ancient myths as I do now. It was told to me growing up that Zeus and others are just fable stories.

The more I read about ancient Egypt and other myths, the more I feel I'm loosing Jesus. I feel like a kid being told about the real truth about Santa Clause. There is gut feeling I have that reflects the same feeling when you loose a love one. Very scary......

 

And once again... thank you all for being supportive. The more I post here the more I feel like I'm cheating someone I love and know its wrong....but you guys are making it a little easier for me to get by. thank you

[pandora]

Wishful, I hope I wasn't ever rude to you. I must admit I watched those threads for entertainment value, but I tried to stay away from commentary.

 

What you're going through is really tough... we've all been there here. You're asking the same questions we asked. You must feel so incredibly lonely right now. I hope your personal problems get worked out for the best.

 

There aren't easy and straight answers to that stuff... just be true to yourself and you'll be fine. In the long run, you'll even be proud of yourself.

 

*hugs*

[Guest E. Scott Cragg]

I feel like a kid being told about the real truth about Santa Clause. There is gut feeling I have that reflects the same feeling when you loose a love one. Very scary......

 

I remember when I found out that Santa Clause wasn't real I felt inconsolable. I went to my dad and begging him to tell it wasn't true.

 

"Of Course Santa is Real... he's just a spirit, not a person" He said. "No real man could have as much power as Santa has, to provide so much happiness to so many people. Santa is real because you and I are talking about him right now. I know to you, it must be tremendously disappointing right now to realize that he doesn't actually exist, as a person like you or me... That that will pass, in time, you will realize that spirits, and Ideas, and thoughts, are actually just as "real", and even more powerful and profound, than a simple, physical person could ever be".

 

I'm of course paraphrasing, but that talk stuck with me for the rest of my life.

 

And once again... thank you all for being supportive. The more I post here the more I feel like I'm cheating someone I love and know its wrong....but you guys are making it a little easier for me to get by. thank you

 

You fear of cheating apt, its the fear of loss. You've been led to believe, by yourself and others, that all that is good and beautiful in the world hinges on this thought, this belief... Without the belief, your conscious mind is going crazy right now, assuring you that in doing so, you will loose Jesus.

 

Fortunately for you, as I believe we are proof, your conscious mind is incorrect. You are not Cheating on someone you love, you are simply learning that you do not need to cling to fantasy to continue to experience that 'person' within you.

[Piprus]

I feel like a kid being told about the real truth about Santa Clause.

That pretty much sums it up, Wishful. You'll read many testimonies on this site's archives describing the feeling of peace that comes with the final exit from christianity. And it isn't the work of the devil, either...there simply is no such entity. It's the sweet feeling of having your own life in your own hands, to make of it what you will. There is a challenge in that, and I think you'll find that all of us have come through, whether we exit from christianity to deism, atheism, or some other alternative, that we live good, moral, and honorable lives without the fears foddered by that malevolence called christianity.

 

May you grow in your own grace.

[godlessgrrl]

Oh wow, wishful... wow. I had no idea. You're going through a lot. I'm so sorry.

 

I have been very confuse this past few weeks, For a long time I had doubts in my love for Jesus..... this is very hard for me to talk about so bare with me... I must note that I really did not want to come back here EVER!!! only because of the fear of being ridiculed. I guess this post really goes to Antlerman... He seems to be the only person who talks with some respect. I don't care for the others here, only because some of them come off being really rude. Antlerman was the only person I really enjoyed talking to..

 

But in any case, I could say I have had some doubt for long time... but I kept that buried deep in side me. I feel that Jesus would help me over come. I would visit a ton of Christians websites and asked some tough question and I got what I wanted to hear but.. that was not enough for me... So I came here to test my faith, who better then a bunch of Ex-Christians. I just wanted to see the other side of the story. I have come across some new information that I never knew that open my eyes to something big.

 

For example "Life events shared by Osiris, Dionysus and Jesus " I would also like to add Krishna and Horus. This just blew my mind. So I took a step back and something just click in my head. I'll be honest I cried for days and I'm still crying even now. I felt that someone real close to me had died, and I think that was my faith of Jesus. He failed to answer my prayers for me to keep my faith. Even now I'm still struggling, I still have hope that Jesus will appear to me. I still go to church.... because I still love the music and my friends.. As for my husband.. I'm not going to get into details, but he and I are having are own personal problems. I have been living at my sister's house and we have been exchanging phone calls and e-mails. THAT'S all I have to say about that. I still would like to keep my personal life personal.

 

I would like to ask for help in making me understand some things that are still very confusing. My husband and I have been debating threw e-mail and he has asked me to send him question that I found that could not be answered by Christians and that led to my struggle with my faith in Jesus.

 

So would it be ok for you guys/gals to help me open my mind even further.

 

thanks

 

Wishful

 

I'm so sorry you're having trouble with your spouse. A few of us here wondered if that might be the case, but I actually prefer to be wrong about such wonderings... a troubled marriage is painful and I'd rather nobody ever went through having to deal with something like that. And of course you can keep your personal life personal - you don't ever have to post anything you don't want to share. It's your private life, and I'm happy to respect that (as I suspect everyone here is).

 

The big thing I worry about is your safety. You indicate that your husband isn't physically abusive, but you also say there are some verbal things... as a survivor of verbal and emotional abuse myself, I say from experience: that stuff is deadly. In some ways it's even worse than physical abuse, because there are no bruises, nothing concrete to point to, and it's soooooo easy for an abuser to blame their victim. It's just crazymaking. I don't want you to get stuck in that trap, and get manipulated by any verbal attacks your spouse might throw at you. I highly encourage you to check out some books or talk to a counselor about it, if you can, and see how much of a problem it might actually be. People don't have to hit you in order to be able to control you.

 

You're also finding out how painful it is to have your faith shattered by new information - something so many of us here have experienced too. You're right, it really is like someone close to you has died. It isn't easy at all. It isn't fun. It isn't painless. I wish I could say otherwise for you, I wish I could lie and say pretty things about that kind of internal struggle, but that would be disrespectful to what you're going through. I can't say anything other than that I and many others here really do know exactly what you're going through, because we've been there. Just hang in there as best you can; it will get better.

 

I only have a few more things to add, in response to your spouse's email that you posted.

 

He says:

i wont cut and paste the whole rebuttal to your e-mail but here it is:

 

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycatwho1.html

 

also, weren't horus, osiris, dionysus etc simply mythical figures, like Zeus and Apollo and Athena? in other words, they weren't real people. If you are trying to suggest that Jesus was not a real person, then you have a tough road to hoe.

 

Try spending less time on the atheist websites ( and you know what one I'm talking about) and go on to some good christian apologetics sites(www.ankerberg.com, www.reasons.org, www.str.org). It will be better for your soul.... here is another site

 

Do a little digging into the historicity of Jesus. See what kind of evidence you come up with for his existence, outside of the Bible. Take a crash course in the historical method first. Also, do a little looking into the reliability of eyewitness testimony; then ask yourself if you can trust any of the Gospel writers. I think it's Mr. Wishful that has a hard row to hoe, frankly.

 

The rebuttal site he sent you strikes me as being a great deal of hair-splitting. Mythology and mythological themes are broad and basic. Their details may vary between cultures and times and places, but the basic themes do not. Take a look at what Alan Dundes has to say about how Christ fits into mythology.

 

Something about your spouse's last paragraph grates on me. I read it and I feel as if he is speaking to you as if you were a wayward child: ordering you around, claiming to know what is good for your soul... how arrogant. Really.

 

Only YOU know what your soul needs. Only YOU know what you need. You can get all kinds of input and ideas from people, but in the end the only person who has any understanding of who you are and what you need is yourself. We might give you advice here, but we don't know you either - and we can't tell you what you should do with your life, or where your struggles should go, or what you should think. All I would dare to tell you is to just think in the first place - exercise your critical thinking skills, and see where they lead you.

 

It's very very brave of you to post here about your struggles. I'm sure not going to ridicule you for struggling, or for any of your questions, or anything. You're welcome here, and you have my support.

[GraphicsGuy]

Well, Wishful, as a n00b who just lost his marriage partly due to de-conversion, I really know what you're going through. Our methods to and through de-conversion appear to be vastly different, but the end results may be the same.

 

In my opinion any spouse who dumps their wife/husband for religious reasons never truly loved THEM in the first place. At least, that's how things felt in my relationship.

[Luke Wolf]

Wishful;

 

Good thoughts and wishes your way. I remember the yearning I had when I was loosing my faith in Christ, that something would happen to show it to be true, that Jesus was there watching over me. And the pains and confusion over making up more and more excuses and vein logics to hold onto what had been the foundation of my life.

 

I also remember looking at the world with my own eyes. While there is some evil, the world isn't filled with the amount of evil the Bible teaches. It is actually an exciting and wonderful place.

 

At the crossroad you have reached, there are many options. The lose of faith does not mean you have to automatically chose one path.

 

Sometimes though, answers cannot be found in the obvious places, but rather from outside sources. Whatever you are searching for, be open and look over all possible means for answers.

 

As far as asking your husband questions about Christianity, I will spare you my full-assault questions, as they are probably not the best for your situation. However, some good ones I have, but note some of the questions being an issue does vary from church to church.

 

-If God is indeed omnipotent, and can do anything, they why could he not speak salvation into existence? (I am looking for the exact verse that mentions this. I do remember specifically that it is there, allthough many people are oblivious to this.)

 

-If God flooded the earth and saved only Noah, then why does the account of Gilgamesh, which is much, much older than the Bible/Torah, have a similar story of the earth being flooded and only one man and his family being spared?

 

-If God really wants people to be with him for eternity, then why does he simply not give us one last time to accept salvation at the "pearly gates.''

[Ouroboros]

also, weren't horus, osiris, dionysus etc simply mythical figures, like Zeus and Apollo and Athena? in other words, they weren't real people. If you are trying to suggest that Jesus was not a real person, then you have a tough road to hoe.

And how does he know that Jesus was a real person? Through rumours and hearsay from people he never met, who wrote some stories, and that would make the stories true?

 

Try spending less time on the atheist websites ( and you know what one I'm talking about) and go on to some good christian apologetics sites(www.ankerberg.com, www.reasons.org, www.str.org). It will be better for your soul.... here is another site

First of all, not everyone on this site are atheists.

 

And secondly, why does God need people to defend him and make up excuses (apologies) for his own failures in making a sensible religion? Why does the Bible need any explanations at all? Couldn't God make the Bible self-evident?

[Ouroboros]

Thank you. I never really knew much about ancient myths as I do now. It was told to me growing up that Zeus and others are just fable stories.

The more I read about ancient Egypt and other myths, the more I feel I'm loosing Jesus. I feel like a kid being told about the real truth about Santa Clause. There is gut feeling I have that reflects the same feeling when you loose a love one. Very scary......

 

And once again... thank you all for being supportive. The more I post here the more I feel like I'm cheating someone I love and know its wrong....but you guys are making it a little easier for me to get by. thank you

Myths are just yesterdays religions. One day people will look back and laugh at the Christians and their delusions.

 

I do know that it is hard for you. It was for most of us. Hang in there.