leftofpunk Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Bit of backstory... I'm an atheist. I was raised christian, became non-religious and then the more I investigated and learned I eventually became an atheist within the past 7 years or so. My girlfriend was raised christian. Her family is christian (kind of liberal methodist) and she's an ex-christian who's still trying to figure it all out. She's got ideas that sort of resemble Buddhism but it's more like her own version. She kind of leans toward how energy cannot be created nor destroyed so when we die some form of energy escapes and get recycled whether it be in another person, or animal or tree or something (cause it can't be destroyed). She doesn't believe in a god per se but perhaps something for of a force (mother nature?) She for the most part believes in karma as well. Due to her christian upbringing "atheist" still has a pretty raw taste in her mouth. She's stated in the past that she can never go back to christianity becuase she knows too much. She knows about the Gilgamesh and believes in evolution and that's knowledge she can't give back. The bitch of it all is that the straw that broke the camels back was her brother(Jake) dying in the army in 2001 (prior to th war on terror). So there is an element of "anger". We have a toddler and we're not raising him in any religion. When he's old enough to start asking questions we'll certainly answer them for him and allow him to go to a church if he asks too or whatever really. Now her family has a slight problem with this. They know her stance on the religion issue. Her dad just thinks she's angry with god and that it'll all pass. Her mom recently told her that she's doing an amazing job raising Jason (our son) except in the area of his faith and Sarah (my GF) was very offended by this.. Her mom recently pulled the "I know Jake is in heaven and I know when I die I'll be in heaven but i'm not so sure of you" and "When I'm asked about Jason by God, I want to be able to say I at least tried to tell him about Jesus" cards. It's hard for me to talk to Sarah about the religion topics because I have one world view (secular humanism) and she has another. The real hard part is that with the exception of her "feeling" that a soul must exist" we have the same beliefs. She's practically an atheist and only a dogs hair away from worlding a 100% secular humanist world view. I don't consider our beliefs very different but she does. So after all of that....how do I talk to her about things? She was really upset the other day about things her parents said but as a "logical unemotional atheist" as she thinks I just can't identify the way I think I need to be able too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 But what is the real problem that you have? Is it simply that she has chosen to follow a different philosophical path than you? Or is it that you fear it may lead her to backslide into Christianity? What parts of her current beliefs are causing you problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Also sounds like you may be having some compounding issues here with your in-laws as well. Off the cuff, let her know that you support her. And let her parents know that you will not put up with their bullshit when it comes to your kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
מה טבו Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 What you're facing is not unusual at all - it's a challenge faced by thousands of people. You have an interfaith family. Perhaps instead of discussing religion itself, you could focus on the things that you do have in common - like how to deal with your in-laws and your son. At some point you are going to have to educate him so that he knows what Christianity is, particularly if you want to innoculate him against it before the in-laws start proselytizing to him. You can identify with some things. You're an ex-Christian too. You probably know what it's like to deal with proselytizing relatives. Instead of focusing on your differences, look for the things with which you can identify. If your girlfriend wants some kind of spirituality, maybe you should check out the Unitarian Universalists or the Existentialists. The latter is often completely non-theistic, while the former pretty much leaves the whole thing up to the individual. They also do a great job teaching kids about world religions. If you live in a large city, you may even find a Humanist congregation around. If your girlfriend wants a support network, and she feels that you can't be part of it, then there are lots of support groups, forums, and books specifically for interfaith families. All relationships involve work and compromise. You're just going to have to figure out how to meet in the middle on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 She's got ideas that sort of resemble Buddhism........ ......her "feeling" that a soul must exist........ Doesn't resemble Buddhism in the slightest then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 With respect, 'soul' is a catch all term. It could be the 'continuum' theory that some sects have for consciousness as a non-localised 'field' that attaches to organisms... the theory matches some observations, and predicts some of the fact that babies are born pre-programmed with some characteristics. There's more than one form of Buddhism, Jun, and we both know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 There's more than one form of Buddhism, Jun, and we both know it. I'll continue to say it, "If it is against the teachings of the Buddha, then it is NOT Buddhism." They are "dharma dancers pretending to be "Buddhists." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Don't believe in the supernatural is I believe your objection. As a theory I don't see how it's a belief in the supernatural, since if it's always happened it's not 'unnatural' 'supernatural' or anything else. It's a reasonable theory, that makes a few predictions, and may even be testable... I'd agree the word 'soul' isn't Buddhist in any way shape or form. But in this case the 'One True Buddhist' stance isn't really helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Let's not derail the thread over what constitutes a Real Buddhist. She has ideas that are taken from Buddhism. That is all. Anyway.... I would like to mirror others above about focusing on what you have in common....your relationship, your son, etc. Keep it real. Once people get off on metaphysical tangents, things can get messy fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 That's what I was trying to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DireInTheMire Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 We have a toddler and we're not raising him in any religion. When he's old enough to start asking questions we'll certainly answer them for him and allow him to go to a church if he asks too or whatever really. I think that this is an incredibly wise and responsible choice. A lot of atheists I have met along the walk of life have said the exact opposite about having kids and how to raise them, basically they were going to indoctrinate their religion of humanism instead of allowing the child free choice. I applaud your wisdom. Now her family has a slight problem with this. They know her stance on the religion issue. Her dad just thinks she's angry with god and that it'll all pass. Her mom recently told her that she's doing an amazing job raising Jason (our son) except in the area of his faith and Sarah (my GF) was very offended by this.. Her mom recently pulled the "I know Jake is in heaven and I know when I die I'll be in heaven but i'm not so sure of you" and "When I'm asked about Jason by God, I want to be able to say I at least tried to tell him about Jesus" cards. I understand your anger and frustration, and her parents have no right to talk to her like that, I can't stand the "guilt trip" game that so many "Christians" seem to use. You have to understand though that a) her parents come from a different era in thinking and b)they are just concerned for their daughters eternal security. Both of you should approach them though and ask they not interfere with the way you choose to raise your child. So after all of that....how do I talk to her about things? She was really upset the other day about things her parents said but as a "logical unemotional atheist" as she thinks I just can't identify the way I think I need to be able too. It may be the way you talk to her about the topics. Now in no way am I implying anything about you specifically, but in the past my experience with secular humanists is that they tend to scoff people that look to an afterlife. It even may be in the tone you use when discussing important issues such as an eternal resting place. Based purely on your comment of "logical unemotional atheist", she may feel that you don't even care about what she believes based on the way you may or may not have responded to the topics in the past. Although you may not share her theological ideas you still need to be compassionate towards her ideals. She must feel incredibly torn being raised within the church and now raising her own child, trying to determine the best way to do it. I think that the thought of any pain burdening your child must be heart wrenching, so for her to be concerned about her childs eternal security and that it may end up in "punishment" if she "doesn't do the right thing" must really bother her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Wolf Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 I'm biased towards a good 'ole "fuck you" type of response. It's your's and her's son, and what his grandmother thinks is of little relavence. My girlfriend was raised christian. Her family is christian (kind of liberal methodist) and she's an ex-christian who's still trying to figure it all out. She's got ideas that sort of resemble Buddhism but it's more like her own version. She kind of leans toward how energy cannot be created nor destroyed so when we die some form of energy escapes and get recycled whether it be in another person, or animal or tree or something (cause it can't be destroyed). She doesn't believe in a god per se but perhaps something for of a force (mother nature?) She for the most part believes in karma as well. Due to her christian upbringing "atheist" still has a pretty raw taste in her mouth. That sounds more like Tao than Buddhism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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