Helping A Stranger

[gusdafa]

Yesterday I was approached by a stranger who asked for some help, I wasn't really taken in by the sad story about his wife and kids being hungry and how the river near his village drying up meant he couldn't 'fish' for prawns, their livelihood. No, I just saw it as one man, who looked like he needed some help and I was in a position to help, so I did. I gave him some money and he thanked me but then he kept on going about how god would bless me and I would get my reward in heaven... i didn't say anything back. Should I have?

[מה טבו]

i didn't say anything back. Should I have?

 

By not saying anything back, you spared him some further embarrassment. (It is already hard to ask a stranger for help.) That in itself is a kind act.

[gusdafa]

Well I did tell him the world would be a better place if we all helped each other and that when I would need help I could count on him to lend a hand if he can, and you know, pay it forward somehow .. eek.. the warm and fuzzies

 

yeah, if i were in his shoes, that would be a huge kick to my personal pride asking for help like that.

[pitchu]

Sometimes, in situations like this, I wish I carried little cards I could hand out along with the financial offering:

 

AN ATHEIST JUST REACHED OUT TO YOU WHEN GOD DIDN'T

[gusdafa]

yeah pitchu.... but not in pink for me though

[ShackledNoMore]

I don't know whether or not the norm in your area is the same as where I live, but it seems that virtually everyone begging or asking for money is clamoring to show what a devout xian he is.

 

I think I've noticed a trend over the past ten years or so where the phenomenon has exploded--apparently it's more profitable if you sign says "God Bless" or the first words out of your mouth are about god.

 

One guy even told me that god could see into my pockets.

 

At least this guy waited until AFTER you helped him before going on about god. I'd take more kindly to that then to those who hit you up with god in an apparent attempt at manipulation. At least this guy was sincere. I probably would have reacted the same as you, but I must say, I like pitchu's idea.

[Fweethawt]

Sometimes, in situations like this, I wish I carried little cards I could hand out along with the financial offering:

 

AN ATHEIST JUST REACHED OUT TO YOU WHEN GOD DIDN'T

Most people would probably shit their pants and throw the money back at you.

 

Maybe.

[Robbobrob]

It could be a guilt thing...trying to reminded Christians theat they are supposed to be helpful to those in need. Plus, if he says he believes in God, then OBVIOUSLY he won't be walking to the nearest liquor store as soon as your back is turned.

[pitchu]

Most people would probably shit their pants and throw the money back at you.

 

Maybe.

Yeah. After all, what suffering soul wants godless atheist money?

 

(But the poop in their pants is because god didn't see fit to insist on bathrooms for his homeless children.)

[R. S. Martin]

Sometimes, in situations like this, I wish I carried little cards I could hand out along with the financial offering:

 

AN ATHEIST JUST REACHED OUT TO YOU WHEN GOD DIDN'T

Most people would probably shit their pants and throw the money back at you.

 

Maybe.

 

 

Hmmmm. Isn't that all the more reason why we should do it?

 

1. Homeless people are in no position to reject the help of atheists. If we handed out those cards our reputation for good deeds would become known. People might make the connection between starving people, unanswered prayer, and a nonexistence god.

 

2. It will be a test of true neediness for the homeless person. If they refuse the money of an atheist then obviously they were not in real need in the first place and shouldn't be out there begging for free money.

 

3. It will be a test of faith for the homeless person. If their faith is strong enough to buy food with the money of an atheist then the word will get out that atheist money is not too poluted to benefit the needy.

 

4. If the homeless person does not want to keep the card, where will he or she dispose of it? In some public place where another person might find it. And so the word would spread.

 

For this reason, printing it in florescent pink or green would be a good idea because it would catch people's eye even if it were mixed in with other trash.

[Dhampir]

I gave him some money and he thanked me but then he kept on going about how god would bless me and I would get my reward in heaven... i didn't say anything back. Should I have?

My question is why won't god bless him?

[fortunehooks]

you had the the kindness in you to lend a helping hand, and as a human i thank you. personally, i have been helped also by the wonderful friends on this board, and through out my life i have tried to help others when they have needed it. there is no need to inform people who are barely keeping their heads in the land of the living that their god doesn't care.

[Luke Wolf]

AN ATHEIST JUST REACHED OUT TO YOU WHEN GOD DIDN'T

And they can say God sent the atheist.

[pitchu]

Some good thought-provoking points about the card in this thread.

 

(I suppose if they're thinking or talking about it at all... they're at least thinking or talking about it.)

[מה טבו]

there is no need to inform people who are barely keeping their heads in the land of the living that their god doesn't care.

 

I have to agree here. Circumstance has to be taken into account. When someone is homeless and/or panhandling, they're in a pretty humiliating position. They're on hard times, and they're thoroughly degraded. It's bad enough that they're in that position and having to ask people for help. Attacking their belief system on top of that, even if you offer them money, just seems cruel. Homeless people get abused and called every name in the book already. Implying that they're wrong or stupid for having their beliefs - or that God doesn't care - it's like putting salt in the wound.

 

If they want to believe in Jesus, the Pantheon, or the Tooth Fairy - if it keeps them going when they're on the skids, let them have it. There's no point in arguing with someone when they're struggling to survive.

[pitchu]

Most un-housed people have been preached to ad nauseam by religionists who may or may not actually be helping them. They've largely been programmed to parrot the god-talk to make themselves fit the mold of Folks Whom Good Christians Would Like To Help. They've been docilized and infantilized if they've been very long at the mercy of systems which do not solve their problems. I see no reason not to insert a non-confrontational dose of reality into their situation, because their questioning mind might be the first phase of their eventual activism.

 

Btw, my husband (especially) and I have been involved deeply, as activists, in issues of poverty and homelessness in the U. S. for over a decade. But I've never printed up the card -- it's just always been in the back of my mind because I so resent the encroachment of religiosity into problems which need a social, not a magical, solution.

[Dhampir]

I have a question for anyone who wants to answer: diversity of causes aside, what comes most to bear in homelessness? That is, how much of the situation can be laid at the feet of the person (by which I mean any homeless person who came to be that way from whatever the statistically average cause is), and how much is the fault of broken systems?

[gusdafa]

This is quite tricky.... while I didn't want to score points for atheism by telling him my stance on god, I did it disservice by comforting a believer that god provided him a 'good Samaritan' in his hour of need. I didn't feel the need to challenge him on his statement because of mostly what josh? said. I helped him not because I wanted to further the atheism cause or some edifying personal satisfaction that some get by helping and donating to charity. Besides, he looked like he really needed the help and none of the extra burden of thinking too hard about god's existence. I am hoping that when we next meet and with him in good stead like he promised, we could have a more satisfying conversation on the topic instead of the one way guilt-laced soundbites he left me. If he says the same story of some variation of it, I might still help him but I would definitely let loose then on why this god he worships is letting an atheist help him.

[pitchu]

I have a question for anyone who wants to answer: diversity of causes aside, what comes most to bear in homelessness? That is, how much of the situation can be laid at the feet of the person (by which I mean any homeless person who came to be that way from whatever the statistically average cause is), and how much is the fault of broken systems?

Oh, Boy, D... It's a big question with so many facets.

 

Imo, the bottom line is that people who live in wealthy nations and are homeless are without housing primarily because the social compact of that nation excludes housing-for-all as a prerequisite for a good functioning society.

 

The Scandinavian countries have either few or no homeless citizens. Their philosophy seems to be that it's a shock to the conscience of society to leave one of their own on the streets. They get them housed, then they attend to whatever caused that to happen.

 

If you tout the success of these countries as opposed to the dismal record of the U. S., you'll often hear the argument, "But of course those countries can take care of that problem: Unlike us, they're homogeneous societies."

 

Think for a minute what that statement implies. The meaning underneath is: "A white nation with many brown and black folks will inevitably have homelessness."

 

And that's just racist.

 

It's that kind of thinking which stands in the way of U. S. citizens uniting behind a Scandinavian-type national conscience.

 

There's so much blame put on drugs, alcohol and mental illness in most quarters that it's easy to just dismiss homelessness as a problem of personal failure (personal failure has become, unfortunately, a catch-all in America for any social problem the fat-cats don't want to fix and don't want the rest of us to think about... unless it scares the crap out of us to think of ourselves as personal failures, thus causing us to toe the line and work harder for less money so we won't fall through the cracks like those Unfortunate Weaklings).

 

It's like this -- poverty causes homelessness in the U. S.

 

Drugs, alcohol and mental illness may be concomitants of that problem, but hundreds of thousands of Americans who aren't poor drink, do drugs and act crazy and still stay housed. Mystifying, huh?

[ShackledNoMore]

I have to say that while it maaaay be more likely for some individuals to become homeless than others, the crux of the problem is squarely social. There may be a correlation between mental illness and homelessness, but it's nothing more than a cop out to blame homelessness on mental illness as you fail to address the issue.

 

There is a hobby I enjoy (www.geocaching.com) which has takes me to some of the places just off the beaten path that someone homeless might use to set up a makeshift camp, etc., and it has really opened my eyes to the number of homeless in my area. It seems to be a lot worse now than it was even a year or two ago.

 

I think of what would need to happen to lose my own comfortable middle class existence and become homeless. Not all THAT much. It would be basically a matter of losing my job, not being able to get another, and not having any money. I ask, "If this happened to me, why would anybody do anything to make sure I didn't die? What obligation would they have to look after MY welfare?"

 

It could happen to me, but suppose I had been turned out on the streets by my parents when I was 14. Suppose they had beaten me before that and I was a broken person. Suppose I had an I.Q. of 75 or 80. Suppose I was in poor health, I smelled bad, my teeth rotting, my hair matted, my beard unruly. I didn't have a high school education. Am I really to expect that if I were hardworking and motivated, I could just waltz into any McDonald's, be given a minimum wage job, and just build a wonderful life for myself, simple as that?

 

Then I look at places like Scandinavia. It's hard for me to imagine, but I have read it: homelessness is practically non-existent there.

 

Answering the claim of homelessness being caused by personal failure, let's flip it around, look at it differently: does this mean that the Swedish are all so innately superior to Americans that they simply don't have the personal failure that we do? Well that's rather absurd. Clearly, it's a social problem.

 

My brain's just not wired to accept the argument that we're doomed to have a homelessness problem because of our lack of homogeneity. That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard. Exactly so, pitchu, that's shamefully racist.

[ShackledNoMore]

As for saying something that could pop the theistic bubble of someone down and out, it's a simple fact that theism offers people with an option not to have to think through the big questions. It offers stability. Concrete answers for them to grasp on to. It avoids the risk of the unknown if they don't start to ask questions.

 

I can see that there's a certain kindness to leaving them unchallenged in their delusion when it's all they can do to keep from starving to death. As for me, there's no practical implications one way or the other, since I don't go out prosthelitizing apostasy.

[pitchu]

As for saying something that could pop the theistic bubble of someone down and out, it's a simple fact that theism offers people with an option not to have to think through the big questions. It offers stability. Concrete answers for them to grasp on to. It avoids the risk of the unknown if they don't start to ask questions.

 

I can see that there's a certain kindness to leaving them unchallenged in their delusion when it's all they can do to keep from starving to death. As for me, there's no practical implications one way or the other, since I don't go out prosthelitizing apostasy.

I certainly don't disagree with any of this, SNM, and it's not my wont to proselytize, either. I just get really pissed off that the moment folks have lost their homes and maybe their jobs, health, families, and surely their bearings, the Religious Ones consider this the ideal moment to scarf up what's left of these desolated people as jewels in their crowns.

 

That's there's so much god-talk among the homeless population must be attributed, in large measure, to the influence upon them of the Bloodsuckers for the Lord. The only alternative would be to think that these hapless folks were this way even when they were housed, which would mean that homelessness targets the extremely religious at unprecedented rates.

 

As a matter of fact, maybe we should altogether dispense with the drugs, booze and crazy theories about the cause of homelessness and just admit that the main thing homeless folks all seem to have in common is their hyper-religiosity. Ergo: Fervent belief in god is likely to make you lose your home. (Let's see how many of the Religious Right will get behind this theory!)

[twincats]

There's so much blame put on drugs, alcohol and mental illness in most quarters that it's easy to just dismiss homelessness as a problem of personal failure (personal failure has become, unfortunately, a catch-all in America for any social problem the fat-cats don't want to fix and don't want the rest of us to think about... unless it scares the crap out of us to think of ourselves as personal failures, thus causing us to toe the line and work harder for less money so we won't fall through the cracks like those Unfortunate Weaklings).

 

It's like this -- poverty causes homelessness in the U. S.

 

Drugs, alcohol and mental illness may be concomitants of that problem, but hundreds of thousands of Americans who aren't poor drink, do drugs and act crazy and still stay housed. Mystifying, huh?

 

I have never heard or read this put so well!

 

People are also led to believe that it's possible for everyone and anyone to be rich and if you're not, well, it's your own fault for being a lazy bastard. Another idea our marketing-addled society is spoon-fed is that there is no such thing as good enough; wherever you are on the social-economic ladder, it's just a rung to be used to get to the next level.

 

The worst part is, a lot of the god-botherers are jumping right on this bandwagon with their 'prosperity ministry' crap!

 

As far as atheists and charity go, the pagans have been dealing with it for a while and most pagan supported charities are small and DON'T advertise the pagan part, cause anything pagan really causes some pants-pooping!

[junkpoet]

Yesterday I was approached by a stranger who asked for some help, I wasn't really taken in by the sad story about his wife and kids being hungry and how the river near his village drying up meant he couldn't 'fish' for prawns, their livelihood. No, I just saw it as one man, who looked like he needed some help and I was in a position to help, so I did. I gave him some money and he thanked me but then he kept on going about how god would bless me and I would get my reward in heaven... i didn't say anything back. Should I have?

 

i respect the post of those who said not to tell him you are an atheist. but i disagree. i have placed a responsibility on myself to try and leave this world a better place. you did this by giving to the man in need. but a world without religion and with people who think is a better world. while it may have embaressed him or upset him to tell him you are an atheist, it may not have. and when i tell somone i am an atheist, there is a chance it will make her/him think. if thinking leads to a conversation (why are you an atheist) then there can be an exchange of ideas. ideas, thinking, scepticism, these make the mind expand and live. every time religion is brought up...i will discuss my views. everytime.

[Robbobrob]

I do wonder about the confusion of calling yourself an Atheist, when there are many threads here discussion the confusing of Atheism as a religion. Does not pointing yourself out as one trying to equate Atheism as a similar thing as Christianity?

 

I think my mind is on the fence on this issue. Maybe the need is on equating now, and in a generation or two people can free the word from association with religions.

 

A funny panhandling story: me and my friends were down in Georgia on vacation, and we were approached by a homeless man. One of my friends (very conservative kid) pulls out some change for he guy. The homeless guy then says, "Wow, you sure are a fat boy, aren't you?" to my friend. We were all high school football linemen, not a runt in the bunch. My friend looked at the guy for a couple seconds, then "swoosh" the change went sailing through the air and into the river nearby.

 

Moral of the story: if you are begging for change, don't insult the giver, be it an Atheist, Catholic, or True Christian.