Don't Like America? Why?

[Lightbearer]

This isn't so much of a debate thread as it is a discussion. Someone recently gave me an answer to this question I thought was stupid so I figured I'd come here and gauge everyones opinion.

 

It doesn't have to be with America as a whole. You can talk about your beef with the citizens, the government, the culture, whatever your particularly problem is. I just want to hear it, if you don't mind sharing. Lengthy posts are welcome, I won't TeaL DeaR.

 

Edit: Oh and I came here because you guys are pretty diverse in your opinions, can articulate them well and aren't trolls. Simply put -- this can actually be productive.

[Casey]

My short answer would be that I don't dislike the US or Americans in general at all. I do however intensely dislike the American Government and the financial system which is so closely tied to it. The one institution has long since ignored or legislated out of existence just about every ordinance the Founding Fathers saw fit to establish for the governance of the country and the other will be the most likely cause of the country's bankruptcy.

Casey

[Sparrow]

This isn't so much of a debate thread as it is a discussion. Someone recently gave me an answer to this question I thought was stupid so I figured I'd come here and gauge everyones opinion.

 

It doesn't have to be with America as a whole. You can talk about your beef with the citizens, the government, the culture, whatever your particularly problem is. I just want to hear it, if you don't mind sharing. Lengthy posts are welcome, I won't TeaL DeaR.

 

Edit: Oh and I came here because you guys are pretty diverse in your opinions, can articulate them well and aren't trolls. Simply put -- this can actually be productive.

 

I'd agree mostly with Casey. I don't dislike America or Americans at all. In fact, I generally think that the American people are the way they are because they essentially want to be good people. I think the US government stinks - particularly the side of it that is driven by big business - i.e. the republican mentality / philosophy - but all-in-all, I like the american people.

 

Spatz

[ShackledNoMore]

Americans are invited to join in, aren't they?

 

Before my more lengthy discussion of the topic at hand, I'll briefly summarize that on the positive side, Americans are industrious, innovative, hard working (TOO hard working, if fact--I'm as ready to work as the next guy, but I resent being expected to work ten or 12 hour days and having to work five or more years at a company to get a meager third week of vacation which you almost feel stigmatized taking--I envy my European counterparts who have more time to LIVE life rather than serve their empolyer). We're rugged in a sense, in our self reliance. We think that we can control our own destiny. We think we can do anything, and because we think that, we can and do accomplish darn near anything. We're high tech, we have a lot to offer. We are stimulated with a diverse population representing many different viewpoints. We're like anyone, anywhere in the world: we have some really wonderful people as well as some real jerks.

 

For the past few moments, I've been thinking about all the little pieces that I don't like or that I would improve, but I think it all sums up to one thing: the conditioning we receive.

 

Our rhetoric is one thing, it can be wonderful, it tells of what a courageous, just, freedom loving people we are who have carved out the finest utopia in the world. If only our actions bore that out.

 

Every day, every American school child recites the pledge of allegiance:

 

I pledge allegiance to the flag

of the United States of America

And to the Republic for which it stands:

One Nation, under God, indivisible,

with liberty and justice for all.

 

We foster a misplaced sense of patriotism, producing a nation that would have flag burners made criminals instead of a nation of citizens diligent to defend qualities that do and/or would make us a wonderful, free land. (Even "defend" is a loaded word that is part of our conditioning--we should EXPECT to live in a free land that we have built into a nice place to live. We should consider it the norm, not instill paranoia that our very way of life is under attack from every weak threat we can fabricate half way around the world.)

 

True patriotism SHOULD seek to make one's country a better place, NOT blindly defend whatever we are told is good for us, right or wrong.

 

We were told day in and day out that we are the greatest country in the world.

 

We were told day in and day out that we are the most free country in the world.

 

In a nation at the top of the world in per capita prison population, in a nation of puritanism, in a nation where we've been asked to give up freedom for "security" and big brother is everywhere, in a nation that has alienated some of our finest allies with our drums of war and our loose cannon president and his lap dog Congress--followed by his gutless Congress (I sincerely apologize to the rest of the world) I'm pretty sure that school children are still constantly being told today that we're the greatest, most free country in the world.

 

We have fostered an exclusive tribalism.

 

We think the world revolves around us.

 

We can behave really obnoxiously.

 

We have concentrated power into the hands of some very greedy, power hungry, corrupt people.

 

We somehow tolerate this nonsense, for crying out loud!

 

A full one-third of our population has slipped off the deep end--the most obnoxious, outspoken third, I might add. The imperialistic third. The god fearing third. The authoritarian follower third. The Bush-following third. The third that doesn't think we can control ourselves, so we have to be subject to control--their way. The third who would have us degenerate into a fascist state.

 

The third is so outspoken that the other two-thirds don't have the guts to take a firm stand. The two-thirds is diverse. Some of them are not so far away from the one-third ideologically, some of them are worlds apart. But the one third does not need to win very many over from the two-thirds to have a majority. They don't need to win any over at all to have a profound influence.

 

Wish us, America, the best and hope that we find our way.

[Legion]

Wish us, America, the best and hope that we find our way.

I think that was a fine post SNM.

[Japedo]

That is one of the most eloquent on the mark responses ever. You should send that to some editorial colums, it's well worth being printed. It's outstanding and rings much of how I feel on every level.

[Vigile]

Yes Shackled, I have to throw in my kudos as well. That was a fine essay. I don't see one point where I disagree or feel the need to add to.

[R. S. Martin]

ShakledNoMore, that's a master piece. It's educational and insightful for me as a Canadian to know this about Americans. I think it's the vocal and powerful one third you mention that causes the anti-Americanism throughout the world, including Canada. I would suggest that here in Southern Ontario we have some of the most conflicted feelings about Americans to be found in the world. I had no idea how strong our anti-Americanism was until I had a classmate who tried to keep her nationality hidden because of it. She was from the States. My thesis supervisor is a conscientious objector of the Vietnam War in the sixties. He makes regular trips to California to visit his parents but for the rest of the time he's a Canadian and he strongly encourages students to read Canadian authors.

 

When I read the history of how a lot of Eastern Canada was settled by people coming north during or after the American Revolution because they did not want to be American, I got some insight. One author suggests our strongest identity is a negative one: We're NOT American. That is pretty accurate. We have all kinds of in-house jokes about not knowing (or caring) who we are or how we differ from Americans but on one thing are agree irrevokably with our whole being: WE ARE NOT AMERICAN.

 

And yet, our closest neighbours are Americans. They're a whole lot closer than most Canadians. And Americans are the vast majority on all the discussion forums I have yet found. (One exception, perhaps. There were enough Canadians with their anti-Americanism on my first forum to get the Americans begging on their knees for mercy.) I like most Americans as individuals. I just don't like the hype about liberty as though the US were the only land with freedom. In fact, I have come to suspect that Americans have never been truly free because of the fact that they have had to yell so loudly about this freedom. We don't normally have to advertize something we feel confident about.

[Onyx]

Shackled, that was one of the most beautiful writings I've read in a long time and I've read many beautiful writings. I tell you- an aspiring author to another- that you should take up writing as a profession.

 

I am not anti American. Why? Shock and horror, they are people, good, neutral, bad like us oppressed by a greedy big business loving warmongering conservative suck up government which takes up freedom and took away almost all what made America one of the greatest countries to hit this world (Sweden, Netherlands, Switzerland, Germany, France, New Zealand, England, Japan and South Africa (only recently did they have democracy and gay marriage) all has freedoms and rights- made them great) to a country much hated.

 

If Washington came with all his virtues and his flaws into 21st Century America- he would weep to see what this current government have done to his America.

We the world too weep though we won't really admit that because here is a country who was scarred by governments and scarred other countries including ours- something Jefferson, Washington, Paine and Franklin were taking great lengths and pains to prevent this happening.

 

The greatness of America lies in this fact- it took Greek (democracy) Roman (republic) German (free press) French (revolution) and even English (Puritian work ethic) ideas and added some of their own ideas (individualism, personal freedom, diversity and a new life) which made America almost unique in the eighteen and nineteen centuries. In the 20th Century, America had contributed to blossoming of new ideas and movements (Some of them weren't new in fact- the gay and race movement for instance) They reverbated throughout the world, making them more important and easier to take up the cause.

 

America's first act of freedom affirming was setting forth on Mayflower away from the King and The Puritians. Then they fought against the British, rejected their tea and declared independence. Then they set forth a noble start with Washington and wrote a consitution thaty still is one of the symbols and benchmarks of freedom.

Many people protested against slavery and freed slaves. People said yes to politicial freedom as they rejected McCarthy and Crow. Stonewall riots in New York sparkled the then underground gay movement alight. Rosa's refusation to go to a blacks only bus and sitting in a white only bus started the secret but zealous desire to see the racists gone. Disableds speaking for their rights in San Francisco gave respectability to disabled rights and ramps. Feminists in America, in every major city, chained to their fences to protest against their gender based oppression. People protested against Vietnam, the freedom lovers eventually won. People protested for their freedoms on pains of punishment by the bigots and the government like other people in the other parts of the world.

 

America, this is the real you, you are one of the starters of new and alighters of old ideas, freedoms and rights. Some countries preceded you with their freedoms, then you took their good ideas and expanded them then many countries took their leads from you and they outshined you since then by taking your freedoms one step further but you can still be a freedom bearer amongst them. America, you are proud, noble at heart and you don't deserve what your idiots gave you for your presidency. Abandon them and their stupider president. Embrace the geniuses, fighters, artists, thinkers and workers which made you great.

 

I just hope we the world can pull through the 21st century without a foolish pseudo president nuking everyone else...

[ShackledNoMore]

I'm blushing...

 

Onyx, you've added some great points. One of those countries from your list of the world's great countries (for which I share your admiration, by the way) gained a lot of esteem in my eyes, when they called out and criticised some of the actions our American administration took in the post 9/11 era. That country was France, of course. I think the criticism they offered was constructive, and the mark of a true ally. But instead of inspiring a look at ourselves, there was a backlash against the French in this country that continues to this day. Some people/restaurants renamed french fries either "American fries" or "freedom fries," despite the fact that "frenching" refers to the cooking technique of cutting food up into long, thin strips, and the name has nothing whatsoever to do with the French. How utterly embarrassing. I cringe just thinking about it.

 

You paragraph about the American heroes who created our constitution, the Bill of Rights, abolished slavery, stood up against McCarthyism, courageous individuals like Rosa Parks, those who stood up for peace and for freedom in the 1960s (what happened to them?), and heroes of that era such as Thurgood Marshall, those who have stood up to end discrimination against women and against gays. It's a reminder, a glimmer of hope.

 

I'm awaiting and hoping the day comes when we rejoin countries like Sweden, the Netherlands, and New Zealand at the vanguard promoting freedom, peace, reasonableness, and good world citizenship.

[R. S. Martin]

America, this is the real you, you are one of the starters of new and alighters of old ideas, freedoms and rights. Some countries preceded you with their freedoms, then you took their good ideas and expanded them then many countries took their leads from you and they outshined you since then by taking your freedoms one step further but you can still be a freedom bearer amongst them. America, you are proud, noble at heart and you don't deserve what your idiots gave you for your presidency. Abandon them and their stupider president. Embrace the geniuses, fighters, artists, thinkers and workers which made you great.

 

I just hope we the world can pull through the 21st century without a foolish pseudo president nuking everyone else...

 

I love it! Thanks for putting things in perspective.

[-Demona-]

Shackled and Onyx, your posts were so eloquent and right on, that I nearly wept. I truly grieve for my country and what it once stood for. Unfortunately, loving America is now synonymous with "agree with everything the president says/does". I love America and my fellow countrymen; I just hate the people running the whole show.

 

I am against the Iraqi War because it seems so much to me like my generation's version of the Vietnam War. There's no easy solution and no real way to win. We can't really tell the good guys from the bad guys because they're the same people, mixed together. I want our boys back home and for the war to end, and for that I'm labeled as "hating America" or a "bleeding heart liberal".

 

So many of our people have been brainwashed into being a corporate puppet under government control that we've forgotten the very thing that made us great: that we were all people from different parts of the world who wanted a better life and the freedoms we didn't have elsewhere. Including, and most especially at that, the freedom just to be who we are and say what we feel. But now we're less and less able to do that anymore because Big Brother is watching us.

 

Thinking deeply about the true State of the Union has me on the verge of tears right now. How could this happen to my beloved motherland?

[Onyx]

Shackled and Onyx, your posts were so eloquent and right on, that I nearly wept. I truly grieve for my country and what it once stood for. Unfortunately, loving America is now synonymous with "agree with everything the president says/does". I love America and my fellow countrymen; I just hate the people running the whole show.

 

Loving your country is to criticise it and try to improve it. Telling the runners of the crooked show to piss off is a form of love for your fellow people. Don't blindly love your country because sooner or later, blind love will make it destroy itself. It is better for you to blow your whistle than blindly following the leaders into anything because for all the flack you'd get, there are people who will reward you with their questions and love and there will be good things to come of such endeavours.

 

I am against the Iraqi War because it seems so much to me like my generation's version of the Vietnam War. There's no easy solution and no real way to win. We can't really tell the good guys from the bad guys because they're the same people, mixed together. I want our boys back home and for the war to end, and for that I'm labeled as "hating America" or a "bleeding heart liberal".

 

Like King Lear, there are degrees of greyness. It is a long story and the protester must untangle the causes and the offenses of the thing he is protesting against in order to wisely protest. You must protest the Iraq War because it is useless to enforce democracy on these who doesn't want it, it is a waste of money, it is immoral, it is religious in nature, it is an exercise to inflate one's own ego, it does little to help the people of Iraq, too much is kept secret in war (Just like Vietnam but at that time, it was one of the first times that reporters were actually allowed to report and record everything in war in history and that pissed off everybody) Yet if we were to remain in war, we must resurge our numbers by drafting or use slaves or start a dictatorship or convert them by force to our way of thinking. The boys must stay the course otherwise Iraq would collapse.

Yet we must leave Iraq. Sure it might get bad but it will reestablish itself. We must protest, help Iraq but without resorting to war again and get the boys to come home. Protest, action and education are the keys to this crisis and we must wisely use them.

 

So many of our people have been brainwashed into being a corporate puppet under government control that we've forgotten the very thing that made us great: that we were all people from different parts of the world who wanted a better life and the freedoms we didn't have elsewhere. Including, and most especially at that, the freedom just to be who we are and say what we feel. But now we're less and less able to do that anymore because Big Brother is now watching us.

 

Spying on your own citizens are not the way to go because it creates in them the feeling that they are evil criminals (Some might be but citizens of your country are mostly good or neutral people) it makes them mistrust each other, paranoid, scared, making them think there are dictatorships on the way. That is the true evil of Big Brother. You may get used to it and behave accordingly but do you do it with feeling and innateness? Fear, control and spying is not the way to make truly good citizens and leaders. Trust, love and teaching are. Yes governments must care but there is a such thing as caring TOO much or little. Caring so much about whatever you say, think and do, they act like overbearing parents which searches your drawers and jail you. Care so little, they'd let the criminals run around and never reply to your calls about robbers. There must be a balance. The government must leave the modes of expression (emails, calls, films, books etc) alone, your house alone, your workplace alone, your family and friends alone and only act if somebody commits a crime or there are real urgent problems to be solved. Oh and allow anything that doesn't harm or hurt anyone and trust people to make their own decisions.

 

Yes, you Americans must remember your history and your greatness or you will end up like this again. That is the lesson of Bush and his cronies.

[Vigile]

Loving your country is to criticise it and try to improve it. Telling the runners of the crooked show to piss off is a form of love for your fellow people. Don't blindly love your country because sooner or later, blind love will make it destroy itself. It is better for you to blow your whistle than blindly following the leaders into anything because for all the flack you'd get, there are people who will reward you with their questions and love and there will be good things to come of such endeavours.

 

Exactly! I could be accused of America bashing by some, but it just wouldn't be true. I don't hate the country. I want to see it live up to its own ideals and I want to see its people enjoy freedoms once again. You are wise beyond your years Onyx.

[ShackledNoMore]

One thing that has me concerned about our current resiliency to get out of this nightmare is the state of our youth. I was a kid during Vietnam. As I remember it, the ones protesting Vietnam were about 10 years older than me and they were passionate. The passion of that generation, now ranging from mid-50's to early 60's, seems to be gone. I don't understand it, it runs counter to my own life, but almost universally, people seem to become more conservative as they get older. And for the purposes of this post, I am NOT defining "conservative" and "liberal" as politically conservative or liberal. Although it may include a political aspect, I'm referring to the broader meanings of the words dealing with maintaining the status quo, complacency, comfort zones, sticking with what works, sticking with a winning formula vs. change, innovation, tweaking stuff, fixing something broken, fixing something not broken, throwing a wrench into the works, improving things. Notice that neither of these terms is inherently "good" or "bad."

 

However (returning from my tangent) the current generation's tolerance of the leadership we're getting from Washington really has me frightened thinking about what kind of world they'll accept and promote thirty or forty years from now. Our best hope is in people like you, Demona--I hope there are enough of you (and I hope enough old farts like me climb out of the woodwork). If not, I hope the current generation of children will show some fortitude in another ten years.

 

"Loving your country is to criticise it and try to improve it." That can't be emphasized enough. I have seen more true love of America in this thread, "patriotism" if you prefer, from resident American citizens, expatriates, and citizens of other countries alike, than I notice in a month going about my day to day life.

 

War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength. We are labelled "anti-American" or it is absurdly claimed that we are "supporting terrorists" when we voice our concerns--by the very crowd that is taking America down a dark, dark road.

[Grandpa Harley]

Shack-baby!

 

"True patriotism SHOULD seek to make one's country a better place, NOT blindly defend whatever we are told is good for us, right or wrong."

 

Amen!

[Legion]

I want to say that while reading this book that Vigile recomended, “The Sorrows of Empireâ€, it has occurred to me that perhaps our military has over extended its reach. I believe that our Constitution was written to outline the formation of our government while having an underlying distrust of government. This author points out that the government is doing things to circumvent it. This disturbs me greatly. Specifically I am very wary of the fact that it says that all expenditures are to be reported periodically. Yet apparently vast amounts of money are going to covert operations which the government does not report. This seems to me to be a violation of the Constitution.

 

Having said that, I have some unease with this definition of patriotism... “Loving your country is to criticize it and try to improve it.†Let me rephrase it so that I can get a better feel for it.

 

Loving your family is to criticize it and try to improve it.

 

I don’t want to try to go extensively into a definition of love. But I do believe there are different “spirits†that accompany criticism. There is criticism that tears down. And there is constructive criticism, a criticism that attempts to build up.

 

I don’t suppose any of you could tell me how to distinguish between constructive criticism and just plain criticism?

[Grandpa Harley]

One thing that has me concerned about our current resiliency to get out of this nightmare is the state of our youth. I was a kid during Vietnam. As I remember it, the ones protesting Vietnam were about 10 years older than me and they were passionate. The passion of that generation, now ranging from mid-50's to early 60's, seems to be gone. I don't understand it, it runs counter to my own life, but almost universally, people seem to become more conservative as they get older. And for the purposes of this post, I am NOT defining "conservative" and "liberal" as politically conservative or liberal. Although it may include a political aspect, I'm referring to the broader meanings of the words dealing with maintaining the status quo, complacency, comfort zones, sticking with what works, sticking with a winning formula vs. change, innovation, tweaking stuff, fixing something broken, fixing something not broken, throwing a wrench into the works, improving things. Notice that neither of these terms is inherently "good" or "bad."

 

Thing is, there was a dream sold. And it failed. Kennedy was as corrupt as the rest, LBJ was never elected as such and Nixon got away with crap that even J. E. Hoover baulked at and if any private citizen was caught doing they'd have reopened Alcatraz just for them. Ford was at least anodyne but I never trusted him. Kissenger was a great loss to the world of organised crime, and Zbigniew Brzezinski armed and trained people who would be low on the list of people you'd give a Swiss army knife to, if the Russians weren't on the other side (his actions really were the first falling domino to the fall of the WTC). Then we have various spook shows dealing drugs and arms to keep the 'red menace' out of South America while Regan called uniforms 'costumed' and mused on the idea of an Alien invasion from space. Bush was just more of the same, just less senile. Wild Bill was probably the most wholesome of the lot with simple personal sexual shenanigans and White Water...

 

Effectively, the 'revolution' generation is what I call post-paranoid. They know they're being lied to, they know that the Government will crush them like a bug, and that, no matter what they do, the govt will do precisely what it likes, at the expense of its citizenry at every turn. Thus the class of '68 no longer care. It's like boxing two or three out of your weight. After a while you don't feel the pain, not because it's stopped, but because you're so badly damaged you can't feel it any more. In fact, you're so badly damaged you don't know to fall down...

 

Everything they thought they knew, everything the thought they believed, became nothing. Was it worth being gassed or night sticked for... it seems that the answer is 'no'... all that happened was that an already venal organisation realised that the citizenry was a potential threat so they sold them out to big business, big medicine, big media and big government, while handing out the largesse of bread and circuses.

 

Least that is THIS mad Limey's view from the cheap seats, waving his big foam hand and gagging down the worst foot-dog in Christendom...

[Vigile]

Damn Gramps, that was almost as good as Shack's essay.

[Grandpa Harley]

[Legion]

I’m going to repeat myself because I don’t want my question to be lost. I want to hear from some folks on this. Vigile, Gramps, Japedo, Shack, Reboot, Onyx, Demona, Ruby...

 

What is the difference between constructive criticism and plain criticism?

[Grandpa Harley]

I’m going to repeat myself because I don’t want my question to be lost. I want to hear from some folks on this. Vigile, Gramps, Japedo, Shack, Reboot, Onyx, Demona, Ruby...

 

What is the difference between constructive criticism and plain criticism?

 

Constructive criticism is a critique with implied or explicit solutions attached. For example, 'You clearly don't know what you're talking about in this matter. I'd recommend you read XYZ by ABC as a sound primer and that'll point you at counter arguments that you can then make an informed judgement from'

 

Non-constructive crit example 'You clearly don't know what you're talking about in this matter. That is because you are a loud mouth dolt''

 

Thus one is geared to an improvement, the other simply to pointing out short comings...

 

My comment on why there was a down turn in folks caring would be bordering on non-constructive criticism, if it wasn't in response to a question as to WHY I think things are that way, since I supply only a reason, not a possible, or implied, way out of the hole...

[Legion]

Thank you Gramps. You rock!

[Vigile]

not a possible, or implied, way out of the hole...

 

I know LR likes solutions so I'll offer this. If the US would somehow enact real campaign finance reform, not the toothless PR bill they passed a few years back, it would go a long way toward helping the US out of her hole. Reform would need to bar all corporate and foreign influence. This could be done by either offering free advertising to the pols or severly limiting funds to be spent on media. It would necessitate that no large sums of money could be donated by any individual and it would make illegal donations from any corporation or foreign entity (Israel anyone?) Hell, if I had my way, and I thought it was possible, I'd shut down the entire lobby system. Let pols answer to their constituents, not their backers.

 

In addition, efforts would need to be made to free the press. This would require applying anti trust legislation to the major media owners breaking them up in baby Bell style so that there is free and fair competition in the press again and thus something closer to the truth as opposed to the corporate propaganda that gets aired today.

 

Finally, disband the CIA.

 

This won't solve every problem, but it will help.

[Japedo]

Loving your family is to criticize it and try to improve it.

 

I don’t want to try to go extensively into a definition of love. But I do believe there are different “spirits” that accompany criticism. There is criticism that tears down. And there is constructive criticism, a criticism that attempts to build up.

 

I don’t suppose any of you could tell me how to distinguish between constructive criticism and just plain criticism?

 

LR,

 

 

Please don't misunderstand my passion for this topic as anger directed towards you personally, it's not the case. (Just clarifying )

 

There are different levels of Criticism. I believe in calling a spade a spade even when the majority attempt to tell me its a heart because they have their head in the sand. With Freedom comes great responsibility. Being harshly critical is a very strong form of support. My loyalty lays with the bill of rights, not with people who appoint or elect themselves to dissolve them.

 

If a family member was being self destructive or rather destructive to the rest of the family what sort of criticism do you feel is warranted? Do you tolerate and turn a blind eye to the destruction, and point out perhaps good parts of the destruction/abuse? Or do you protect the rest of the family from the abuse, the abuser be damned? This can be argued in which way is the better path of course. I maintain that not tolerating abuse and destruction is the best for everyone involved. A person doesn't deserve to be in the family circle so to say when they are being destructive to everyone else. Get them help yes, but address the reality of what's going on is the best way to show Love. The abuser doesn't need nor deserve to be built up, they need to be shown how they are being abusive. They need to be shown how they are crippling and affecting the rest of the family. The same type of scenario goes for the country. Some would say this makes me a cold hearted bitch, and if that's the case.. so be it. It's just how I see it.

 

How can we sit by and gently criticize a government that outright has no regard for the law or for the freedoms it was elected to protect? Do we smile and point out positive points of blatant infringement of rights? Do we act like the abuse was a good thing and try to justify it so not to come across as a hater? I don't believe they (US government) deserve any patients or love from the people. They have used and abuse the American people for money and for power. They have waged war under false pretenses, and put a 'hold' with a supposed sunset clause on the bill of rights. In this country, it is suppose to be "WE" the people whom are responsible for the government. It's our job to be harsh and have high expectations, it's also our job to keep ourselves educated and informed. We are suppose to be the watchers and the care takers of this country. They are hired by us to do their job.. or at least that's how it's suppose to be. What kind of responsible citizen coddles what I view destroyers of the country? The enablers of the government can call me any name they wish, this government isn't about freedom or protecting it, in fact it's polar opposite.