What (if Anything) Is Sacred?

[Legion]

The title of this thread pretty much says it all. I’m curious to know what thoughts you guys may have on the sacred. I once heard of an American Indian who said that the challenge for the 21st century will be to rediscover the sacred. And I thought that was a curious thing to say.

 

I’ve put it in the Lion’s Den because what would the sacred be without its counterpart, the profane?

 

So please... let ‘er rip.

[Japedo]

The title of this thread pretty much says it all. I’m curious to know what thoughts you guys may have on the sacred. I once heard of an American Indian who said that the challenge for the 21st century will be to rediscover the sacred. And I thought that was a curious thing to say.

 

I’ve put it in the Lion’s Den because what would the sacred be without its counterpart, the profane?

 

So please... let ‘er rip.

 

I don't believe anything of this earth to be 'holy' there are things greatly important and that we should have a deep respect for, but I wouldn't relate it to worship it though.

 

I think all historical buildings and grounds should be preserved for future generations to visit, learn and refelct. .

Things like the concept of the foundation of this country I have a huge deep respect for, but again it's not on the level of being 'holy'.

 

I think we should also respect that which other people find to be 'sacred' also. weather it be Indian grounds, Christian churches, Mosques, or lands that have great significance or relevant to a population of people. I'd like to visit the Vatican, I'd also like to visit Israel. I'd like to see these places preserved even if the religion dies. Much like the once 'sacred' grounds in Egypt and south America of which I'd also love to see.

[Vigile]

Everything should be questioned and tried by fire. Some things survive the fire. I wouldn't call them sacred though.

[Thurisaz]

Spontaneously I'd say the one sacred thing in this universe is the mind, and the wonderful things it can do.

[Vigile]

I wonder LR if the word precious might not be a better alternative to the word sacred.

[Skankboy]

sa·cred /ˈseɪkrɪd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sey-krid] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. devoted or dedicated to a deity or to some religious purpose; consecrated.

2. entitled to veneration or religious respect by association with divinity or divine things; holy.

3. pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to secular or profane): sacred music; sacred books.

4. reverently dedicated to some person, purpose, or object: a morning hour sacred to study.

5. regarded with reverence: the sacred memory of a dead hero.

6. secured against violation, infringement, etc., as by reverence or sense of right: sacred oaths; sacred rights.

7. properly immune from violence, interference, etc., as a person or office.

If going by the first 3 defintions, nothing is. If going by the 5th, everything is. Guess it depends on what you mean when you say "sacred".

[Legion]

I wonder LR if the word precious might not be a better alternative to the word sacred.

I want to exercise as little influence over this thread as possible Vigile. I have few preconceptions of what is sacred. So to my mind, there are no right and wrong answers. But I feel compelled to address your implied question.

 

Precious seems fine to me. Valued beyond measure seems to be another.

 

Are you uncomfortable with the word "sacred"? If so, why?

[Deva]

It doesn't seem to be in the dictionary definition, but to me the sacred is related to the beautiful. I am not uncomfortable with the word, probably because I generally can detach it from a particular religion.

 

There are just certain things we don't like to see degraded, torn down or abused. Aesthetics are involved.

[Vigile]

I don't like the word sacred. Aside from the definitions that Skankboy offered up, I think that the word implies something that is untouchable.

 

As in...

 

We don't question that which is sacred.

 

The flag is sacred, therefore it must not be desicrated. End of discussion.

 

These are dangerous ideas to hold since they sometimes protect values and systems that shouldn't be protected. As I said, try everything. If it survives the test it might be precious. If not, it wasn't worth keeping.

 

Sacred implies you can't perform the test. To do so is taboo. It's a form of superstition.

[Legion]

We don't question that which is sacred.

I understand you. But strangely enough I am complelled to bring that which is considered sacred under great scrutiny. I question it.

[Lycorth]

Yes, all things must be questioned and put to the test, even including that which is "sacred" - though that is almost always up to one's own preferences.

 

To use a less strict definition of "sacred" - or to perhaps substitute "precious" for it - does help in coming to define what is sacred in the 21st century. Or perhaps to consider that what was once held as sacred was considered to be absolutely right and truthful... so perhaps that is what can be regarded as sacred, the truth?

 

Or, since ultimate truths are so difficult to come by, the honest pursuit of truth/facts/understanding/etc is also what's sacred?

[Evolution_beyond]

nature. love. honesty. freedom. diversity.

 

Just a few things I consider sacred (in a non-religious sense of course)

[Vigile]

That's because to you it's not sacred. You are scrutinizing what others deem as sacred. I am compelled to do the same.

[HuaiDan]

I guess you just need to ask that Indian what he meant exactly, given there are so many definitions of the word.

[Antlerman]

Respect of humanity. Respect of the planet. Respect of life. Those are sacred.

 

I will use the word sacred because I don't want those who seek the position of authority over others to be the owners of the word. I would almost at times use the word God just to take that away from them too.

[Robbobrob]

I had heard a definition once, I forget where, that equated the sacred with taboos. These are things held apart from the rest of society, not to be even viewed lightly by people not prepared through a proper clensing process or were extra worthy in some way.

 

Course, by that definition, pictures of my naked wife then become sacred, because I ain't about to deem anyone worthy of checkign them out.

 

It is what we deem so important that we think we need to hide it away from mundane people. God becomes sacred simply because he is hidden away so well, no one ever gets to see him.

 

Do I accept that.....not really. But it is just another definition to throw on the fire.

[ShackledNoMore]

Nothing is sacred. Nothing. That's what our minds are for, to question, to probe, to challenge things so that we can learn, improve ourselves, refine who we are. That's NOT to say that some things should not be highly valued, or that we shouldn't have respect for ourselves and our world.

[Mankey]

I don't like the word sacred. Aside from the definitions that Skankboy offered up, I think that the word implies something that is untouchable.

 

As in...

 

We don't question that which is sacred.

 

The flag is sacred, therefore it must not be desicrated. End of discussion.

 

These are dangerous ideas to hold since they sometimes protect values and systems that shouldn't be protected. As I said, try everything. If it survives the test it might be precious. If not, it wasn't worth keeping.

 

Sacred implies you can't perform the test. To do so is taboo. It's a form of superstition.

I agree.

 

A thing can have value without the protective label 'sacred'. Sacred does not demand understanding it demands respect without question.

 

Humans are similar enough due to our psychology and physiology that we can agree on many things despite our differences. No need to coerce others through a word that demands instant respect without testing. Those that know the good do the good. Those that see the good keep the good -naturally.

[Legion]

Respect of humanity. Respect of the planet. Respect of life. Those are sacred.

C'mon Antlerman! I was expecting you to go off on some great spiel about how the sacred and the aesthetic are intertwined. Maybe even how we need the sacred in our lives. So forth and so on... I thought surely that if you posted in here you would give us a real treat, a long diatribe.

 

What has happened to your normal eloquence?

[Mankey]

Respect of humanity. Respect of the planet. Respect of life. Those are sacred.

C'mon Antlerman! I was expecting you to go off on some great spiel about how the sacred and the aesthetic are intertwined. Maybe even how we need the sacred in our lives. So forth and so on... I thought surely that if you posted in here you would give us a real treat, a long diatribe.

 

What has happened to your normal eloquence?

No need to coerce others through a word that demands instant respect without testing. Even with the examples Antlerman gave. Everyone has to try and reason together without 'group think' words like sacred. The examples Antlerman gave are axiomatic to those who value those things.....to know the good takes experience and reason not religiosos dictating it without question. Experience....'think'....'feel'....

 

Still perhaps you are on to something if a person were to persuade through poetry or some such? I am still too thick to really get what you are searching for....

[Legion]

I am still too thick to really get what you are searching for....

I'm not looking for anything specific Mankey. I'm just curious to know what thoughts you guys have on the sacred. I'm pleased that there has been a diversity of answers.

 

Shack has said that nothing is sacred. You and Vigile say that we have to refrain from labeling anything sacred because by doing so it makes us hesitant to question and test it.

 

Sacred, set apart, special, precious, revered, valued, respected.

 

Sacred journey.

Sacred path.

Sacred longing.

Sacred object.

Sacred way.

Sacred people.

Sacred place.

Sacred commitment.

Sacred bond.

Sacred conviction.

Sacred relationship.

Sacred ritual.

 

Is anything sacred? If so, why? If not, why?

[Mankey]

Respect of humanity. Respect of the planet. Respect of life. Those are sacred.

C'mon Antlerman! I was expecting you to go off on some great spiel about how the sacred and the aesthetic are intertwined. Maybe even how we need the sacred in our lives. So forth and so on... I thought surely that if you posted in here you would give us a real treat, a long diatribe.

 

What has happened to your normal eloquence?

I agree.......

 

Maybe Antlerman can add something that we never thought of in a way that is inspiring. I am a real dunce when it comes to these concepts you bring up be'ins I had a very bad experience with religion.

 

Great thread Legion.

[Antlerman]

Respect of humanity. Respect of the planet. Respect of life. Those are sacred.

C'mon Antlerman! I was expecting you to go off on some great spiel about how the sacred and the aesthetic are intertwined. Maybe even how we need the sacred in our lives. So forth and so on... I thought surely that if you posted in here you would give us a real treat, a long diatribe.

 

What has happened to your normal eloquence?

Cut me some slack here. I was just finishing lunch at work when I posted that. I do have to get some things done around there. Besides, sometimes few words can say more than volumes, but I have yet to master the art of white space. So therefore.....

 

I don’t think calling something sacred makes it off limits to question or modification. To me, that’s a hangover idea of religion. How did something become sacred in the first place if not for people deciding together (or individually) something was? And tell me how in the name of humanity how people of one generation can decide for all future generations millennia down the road what they should consider sacred? That’s absurd.

 

What determines “sacred” is what is of the highest ideal to that culture. So understanding that the sacred, or “God” for that matter, is an evolving thing in reality makes in mutable, rather than immutable. In a sense it is a truth greater than ourselves, but it is of necessity dependent on us to sustain it as such. To have it change, in actuality makes it fulfill its purpose as “sacred” in the lives of people and cultures. If it didn’t, it would become a millstone around the neck of society, and that’s what religion does to the sacred. It becomes a chain, rather that an ideal to hold up and aspire towards.

 

Does our current society need a sense of the sacred? Yes, certainly. I think it's important that society holds certain values to transcend all others. When I said “Respect of Humanity”, I see this as a particularly important ideal that we should elevate to the place of “sacred” in society, because we are so closely exposed to many differing beliefs, cultures, and values in our global society that to hold respect of humanity above all those things serves as the guiding principle of tolerance rather than war, and opens the door towards creating a greater whole by being open to ideas and understandings from different perspectives and traditions. Therefore Respect of Humanity, considers a greater purpose than the individual culture’s inward facing needs.

 

Respect of the planet, of course is a basic value whose reach is far greater than the individual or the individual’s immediate culture. It reaches to all cultures, in all generations, and to all life on this planet that we depend on for our existence. We need to take the value of cooperation that we adopt to survive in a society and extend that to the environment we live in. It is also a living thing that is part of our society that we need to cooperate with too, no differently than our dealings with other humans. If it wishes to do us harm, so to speak, it most certainly is capable of it! Greed is the antithesis of cooperation, and if we express greed towards the planet we shouldn’t be surprised if it responds negatively towards us.

 

Respect of life, well that’s pretty basic too but far reaching in its effect. If we assume an attitude of respect to all living things, then we assume an attitude of respect to everything. My problem with the notions of Christianity is that man is viewed as the master of the world, rather than a part of it. Understanding we are just one of many, many life forms on this planet, or even in the entire universe, places us in a position of great responsibility. If we have obtained the means by which to destroy and consume in sweeping ways that goes far beyond our sustaining our lives, as opposed to our lifestyles, then we additionally have a responsibility to act responsibly with that power. Ironically, you don’t hear much about stewardship of the planet from the Christians who read how Adam was given that task. Viewing all life as equally marvelous assumes an attitude of humility as opposed to arrogance. Arrogance justifes its greed, sanctifying it under the self-granted label of special privilage.

 

Ok, I’ll stop there for now and see if that satisfies your wanting more from me than my brief blurb on Friday.

[Mankey]

What determines “sacred” is what is of the highest ideal to that culture.

I have had very bad experiences with group think...ergo....I am a lone wolf.

 

I am antisocial and so that makes me a moron when it comes to culture. I like individuals much better than mobs.

 

I am trying to be open minded.

[Antlerman]

What determines “sacred” is what is of the highest ideal to that culture.

I have had very bad experiences with group think...ergo....I am a lone wolf.

 

I am antisocial and so that makes me a moron when it comes to culture. I like individuals much better than mobs.

 

I am trying to be open minded.

A thought to consider is that you are not as much a lone wolf as you may think. None of us are. We may deviate somewhat from the norm, but unless we are totally isolated from society and don't participate in it whatsover, then you are part of it, influenced by it and influencing it from what ever point upon the line you define yourself at. In other words, you're part of it even if you're not dead center in it.