You're Just Angry With God!

[leftofpunk]

Asshole alert.... lop, you have stepped just slightly over the edge here. I am editing your use of another ExC users words quoted out of this post. if you have a problem, something in need of addressing, feel free to do so with your own words, ideas and thoughts.

Dragging out and posting others words is as close to a personal attack just short of doing so as I am aware of.

 

Don't try this stunt again.

 

Strike One.

 

kFL

 

 

 

This might offend some self proclaimed atheists but I have to get this off my chest.

 

There are a lot of you out there (I'm not pointing any specific fingers) calling yourself an atheist when in reality you really are just angry with God. Whenever you see those preachers or street evangelists who say they "used to be just like you, an atheist" they are either lying just to get you to trust them or they were just angry with God for a while and considered themselves an atheist.

 

To be fair I think a person who is just angry with God is most likely on the path to becoming an atheist, but they're not quite there yet.

 

Full disclosure here and I'm going to point a finger. recently bluewizard posted a topic about still sort of believing in some miracles. Here's the wuote that jumped out and slapped me.

 

Quote removed, foul ball. don't do this shit again.

 

Section removed, unecessary roughness in posting quotes.

 

Now I know I probably look like an asshole by now.

 

Merry fucking christmas, why yes you sure do.

 

I mean why should I be so nit picky about someone else's doubts, beliefs and self labeling right? Well I'd consider this person to still be in a vulnerable stage. He could easily return to the fold and be even stronger in his faith. He could go either way really but it's still possible to go back to Christianity yet he identifies with th label of atheist. Let's imagine if he did return to the fold. Then bluewizard would be one of those jerks that says "I used to be an atheist just like you. Trust me I've been there. I was angry with God, didn't see Him fit for worship then XYZ happened and the Devil lost his control over me and now I'm even stronger in my personal relationship with Jesus Christ." Scary statement huh? In that event he really would have been an atheist "self labeled" but in reality just angry with God.

 

I didn't consider myself an atheist for a long time. I was never at an angry with God place though. For me it was just that grip of fear of eternal damnation. Once I was able to shed that away completely and 100% did I feel comfortable calling myself an atheist. Sure there are fucked up things the "character" God did in the bible, but I recognize that as just as real as Greek Mythology and Zeus certainly doesn't have any mental leashes on me.

 

So I'm sorry if I offended anyone and I'm certainly expecting a backlash from this especially since I did point one finger but I really felt it needed to be said.

 

Offend? Wow lop, the the shit you'd raised isn't worth the point you'd tried to make in a section usually reserved for things totally public.

 

The main message is that if you're having doubts one way or the other...just don't call yourself an atheist, or a christian until you've investigated everything.

[Legion]

I think deconversion can be a complex thing. I think it can sometimes take years. There may be stages in which a person feels angry with an imaginary being.

 

In addition I think that the impression that our minds are unified and free of fragmentation can often be illusory. We can often be in conflict with ourselves.

[Guest Geese Aplenty]

I don't think you're an asshole.

 

Consider the fact that with many of these former Xian theists, this war god/peace god was PERSONIFIED to them on a daily basis and for YEARS. The God-hating language you see coming from them is a response to this personification of the Yahweh deity as loving and just, which, as we now plainly see from the totality of scripture, is not the case. It is cathartic for some ex-Xians to use this kind of language as part of the de-programming process, although I myself have never felt compelled to use this language. I was a mild and cautious Xian. But others come from more cultish backgrounds in which religion is crammed down their throat and and silly prohibitions are enforced RADICALLY. These ex-Xians are entitled to be a little angrier than people like you or me.

 

In sum, I think this inverse personification of Biblegod by atheists is mostly a reaction to the image that's been forced upon them. The composite picture of Yahweh is not pretty, just as the composite picture of Allah is not pretty, and they are merely pointing this out.

[white_raven23]

Okay.....yes leftofpunk....I'm offended.

 

The quote you pulled from Bluewizard is from an Ex-Christian Life thread. That forum is very "support group" in nature. If you've never been to a support group, or heard of how support groups operate, then perhaps your lack of compassion and tact might be forgiven. The whole point of a support group is the ability to openly discuss worries and concerns with empathetic people so you can grow beyond those anxieties. Obviously, when conversation from the group is insulted and picked at outside of the group (in this case the Ex-C Life forum), who can feel comfortable expressing feelings and thoughts within the support forum?

 

Bluewizard, and others are not "perfect" atheists to you. But no one is obligated to reach your level of "perfection" either.

 

This is why I hate labels. You stick yourself in a label, and not only do you have to try and think outside the new box you've created for yourself, but OTHERS (like you in this instance) won't let you think outside that box either without criticism.

 

I'm quite sensitive about support group abuse. It really pisses me off.

[Mankey]

I think deconversion can be a complex thing. I think it can sometimes take years. There may be stages in which a person feels angry with an imaginary being.

 

In addition I think that the impression that our minds are unified and free of fragmentation can often be illusory. We can often be in conflict with ourselves.

I hated God before I became an actual atheist. I was a believer that hated God......I was ignorant enough to call myself atheist at that time. I said it to make people who loved God angry.

 

Other atheists hate it when I admit that. But the heck with it.

 

You are a very nice person Legion.

[Ouroboros]

Hmm... well I'm glad I never hated God... I just stopped believing he existed, and I'm not sure which God to hate anymore, anyway. Maybe I need a random schedule for which God I'm hating today? Today it's Thor.

[Legion]

You are a very nice person Legion.

Thanks Mankey. That's kind of you to say, but I'm not nice all the time. I've done some downright mean things in my day.

[R. S. Martin]

Leftofpunk, I agree with white_raven. You have a right to your definition of the label atheist but your rights end where the next person's (in this case bluewizzard's) begin. Bluewizzard has a perfect right to feel confused and vent his confused feelings without fear of retaliation, ridicule or critique.

[Mankey]

Hmm... well I'm glad I never hated God... I just stopped believing he existed, and I'm not sure which God to hate anymore, anyway. Maybe I need a random schedule for which God I'm hating today? Today it's Thor.

When I figured out that Jesus didn't really love me was when I started hating God. When I figured out that jesus was a corpse was when I became a deist. And later atheism set in...as a matter in fact when I was a deist was when I made my peace with God.....I figured God only loved the human species but never made any promises to any individuals. Freeing me from unrealistic expectations in life. The problem of evil....my dad was one of lifes malignant pimples on the ass of humanity...started me on the road to sanity....eventually. Now I have alcoholism to deal with. I am done with tantrums....pretty much. College next year.

 

I aint got no beef with the Asgard. Thor never called me sinner. So long as Thor doesn't hassle me like yahooey is doin I will cut Thor some slack.

 

[Japedo]

I didn't consider myself an atheist for a long time. I was never at an angry with God place though. For me it was just that grip of fear of eternal damnation. Once I was able to shed that away completely and 100% did I feel comfortable calling myself an atheist. Sure there are fucked up things the "character" God did in the bible, but I recognize that as just as real as Greek Mythology and Zeus certainly doesn't have any mental leashes on me.

 

 

Is it at full moon or something? This is the second time in a few hours I have seen self appointed holier then thou's post condescending remarks dismissing people for lame reasons. . If a person doesn't worship or believe a god(s) to exist what do you propose they call themselves? How about walking in someone's shoes before judging? We've done this thread before with Agnostics are really atheists stop denying yourself type of mantra. (I forget the name of the thread, but I'm sure some old timers remember it) Atheists were becoming irritated that agnostics weren't calling themselves atheists. You are doing the same bullshit here only saying some atheists need to buy a different label since they don't meet your personal standards of the word.

 

I have to agree with WR and Ruby on this one. Putting your labels in a box then chastising people for not living up to your own standards is foolish. People are quite capable of defining their own paths and beliefs (or lack there of) without being chronically criticized for not measuring up to others personal standards. Are we really going to get to the level as to what a True ™ Atheist is now? Do Atheists now own a dogma that all other atheists now adhere to in order to be accepted?

 

Most people "vent' at the dogma, part of that dogma being the word "GOD", both in Idea and as a former once held belief. I'm angry at religion, I can also say I'm angry at god (as the concept I was once lead and held to believe to be true) and still be relevant and still be an atheist. Part of healing from the trauma of religion is anger. People need to process and unlearn emotional knee jerking of what they were once taught. Logically they might not believe but feelings are a different matter. People need to work thru that emotional process to get in line with their logical one. Most Xtians have spent years never meshing the two (Logic and emotion) and it is a new process for people to learn, and a hard one to over come. Why not attempt to be a little empathic and help people work thru the process (that didn't seem that difficult for you personally) instead of just offering criticism of them not meeting your personal standards?

[leftofpunk]

I understand everyone's position but I stand firm. I agree that labels are a bitch but they do exist and the person in question and many more people do label themselves as atheists when they clearly still have some sort of god belief and that can very easily come back and bite us all in the ass if they backslide back to the fold.

 

Bluewizard has every right to feel confused and frustrated but by choosing the incorrect label as atheist yet talks about being angry with god he just continues the impression that there are no real atheists, we're all just angry with god which effects a lot of us.

[Japedo]

I understand everyone's position but I stand firm. I agree that labels are a bitch but they do exist and the person in question and many more people do label themselves as atheists when they clearly still have some sort of god belief and that can very easily come back and bite us all in the ass if they backslide back to the fold.

 

Bluewizard has every right to feel confused and frustrated but by choosing the incorrect label as atheist yet talks about being angry with god he just continues the impression that there are no real atheists, we're all just angry with god which effects a lot of us.

 

 

 

 

Can you do the world a favor and let us all know what a True ™ Atheist is please? You're taking up the charge, by all means teach us all beings tho you seem to have all the answers.

 

I have a question. Is an Agnostic an Atheist by all rights?

[Deva]

I understand everyone's position but I stand firm. I agree that labels are a bitch but they do exist and the person in question and many more people do label themselves as atheists when they clearly still have some sort of god belief and that can very easily come back and bite us all in the ass if they backslide back to the fold.

 

Who cares if they do backslide? You sound like a fundamentalist yourself here. It is not going to "bite me in the ass" if this person decides that Xianity has some validity. You say "us all" as if you speak for everyone here. That is rather arrogant, something I did not get so much from your first post.

[Kirangel]

Yep there may be some people out there calling themselves atheists when they're really just mad at God. I'm not really a psychic so I can't read someones mind and be like "You bastard, you just hate God!" Idk dude, does it really matter anyways. Let people vent, it's a good thing. Like what other people have said, deconversion can be tricky, it's not always smooth. I called myself a few things while trying to figure out where I really stood. It's hard getting out of something that you've been spoon fed for a long time. Well, at least it was for me.

 

leftofpunk, I guess I just don't understand why it frustrates you so much.

[Japedo]

I'd also like to add that SO WHAT if anyone decides to go 'back to the fold'. How is this anyone else's business? People fall into religions based upon a whole host of reasons. Not all of them have to do with logic and reason. Christians time and time again love to give testimony that they were once "evil lowly atheists", a person going back isn't going to validate or give credit to the dogma which looking at with logic doesn't hold water. Anyone that's been to a fundamental church has heard this 'testimony's in a wide variety of forms. So what are you so worried about? You having a fear that people are going 'back to the fold' gives Christians more validation then someone labeling themselves an atheist.

 

 

Many people go back and forth, as looking for answers and dealing with emotional reasons sometimes is a hard struggle. The deeper people are in the cult, the harder it is to break out of the mindset. You sound like the Xtians who love to label people not True ™ Christians.

[Mankey]

I understand everyone's position but I stand firm. I agree that labels are a bitch but they do exist and the person in question and many more people do label themselves as atheists when they clearly still have some sort of god belief and that can very easily come back and bite us all in the ass if they backslide back to the fold.

 

Bluewizard has every right to feel confused and frustrated but by choosing the incorrect label as atheist yet talks about being angry with god he just continues the impression that there are no real atheists, we're all just angry with god which effects a lot of us.

People come to atheism for emotional reasons....or emotional and intellectual reasons. I was THE 'atheist' that you were complaining about...I don't think Bluewizard was as bad as I was. I said shit like "Fuck you your God deosn't exist" Even though I believed. I was daring God to strike me dead more or less. God hater...then deist then atheist. Just like what was said its a process.

 

Bluewizard aint pulling shit like you think man. He isn't a Christian claiming to be an atheist like I was.

 

Just do what I do. I tell people that atheism based on just emotion isn't the same as coming to it intellectually. And now you can add that the emotional baggage that comes from being a theist takes a while to shed for some people even though intellectually you can't believe. Its true.

 

Relax man. Fuck those xers who say there is no such thing as atheists. Ask them if they believe in zues? hehe.

[♦ nivek ♦]

leftofpunk quoth:

I understand everyone's position but I stand firm.

 

 

Bullfuckingshit.

 

Let it drop before I transcend the Big Red Butt0n 0f D00m which killeth all threads which serveth no purpose-eth.

 

Cah-fucking-piche?

 

kFL

[Legion]

Leftofpunk are you a True Atheist?

[crazy-tiger]

The main message is that if you're having doubts one way or the other...just don't call yourself an atheist, or a christian until you've investigated everything.

Why fucking not? I have doubts about whether any god exists or not, but I don't believe in a god. Yep, I'm an Agnostic Atheist... but for ease of conversation, and because I lack a belief in any god, I use the term Atheist to describe myself.

 

More to the point, I can guaranfuckingtee that NO-ONE has investigated everything... so much for anyone being able to use any label if they have doubts about anything.

 

 

 

Oh, and I am angry at God... angry at the concept that has been abused throughout history and used to excuse some of the most disgusting actions ever known. I'm not angry at God itself... because I don't believe it exists, but that doesn't stop me being angry at the concept. (just like I don't have to believe in a gods existence to believe that the concept of a god exists, I can be angry at the idea of something rather than the something itself... confusing, I know)

[crazy-tiger]

Leftofpunk are you a True Atheist?

He can't be... True Atheists have investigated everything, which is impossible. Therefore there is no such thing as a True Atheist and LoP just fucked over his own argument.

[R. S. Martin]

leftofpunk quoth:

I understand everyone's position but I stand firm.

 

 

Bullfuckingshit.

 

Let it drop before I transcend the Big Red Butt0n 0f D00m which killeth all threads which serveth no purpose-eth.

 

Cah-fucking-piche?

 

kFL

 

That's what I expected to see at about Post 2 in this thread.

[Rime]

Although I might have considered myself angry at God at one time before I became an atheist...

 

Wait, no, can't say that either.

 

No, I can't honestly say I've ever hated God. And after I had slipped into agnosticism and looked closely at what fundamentalism is, I've finially identified the object of my frustration as a person's desire to control others using shabby evangelism. And I'd encourage anyone who is called out by an idiot for being "angry at Jesus" to realize that it's not so much God. It's the fan club.

 

Rant over.

[Legion]

Hey there Rime. Welcome to the forums.

[R. S. Martin]

The main message is that if you're having doubts one way or the other...just don't call yourself an atheist, or a christian until you've investigated everything.

Why fucking not? I have doubts about whether any god exists or not, but I don't believe in a god. Yep, I'm an Agnostic Atheist... but for ease of conversation, and because I lack a belief in any god, I use the term Atheist to describe myself.

 

More to the point, I can guaranfuckingtee that NO-ONE has investigated everything... so much for anyone being able to use any label if they have doubts about anything.

 

 

 

Oh, and I am angry at God... angry at the concept that has been abused throughout history and used to excuse some of the most disgusting actions ever known. I'm not angry at God itself... because I don't believe it exists, but that doesn't stop me being angry at the concept. (just like I don't have to believe in a gods existence to believe that the concept of a god exists, I can be angry at the idea of something rather than the something itself... confusing, I know)

 

Nope, that's perfectly clear to me, Tiger. My concept of god happens to be of such that most humans aren't worthy of the concept, most noteably not those who go shoot, drop bombs, and excommunicate family members in its name. I'm not angry at God--I'm angry at what people have done in their perverted and distorted and twisted ideas of god. It's all the same in the end, I think.

[Lycorth]

The concept of the Xian god is certainly enough to anger anyone, and no one can blame ex-xians for being ticked at it. It's a hateful, spiteful thing, worthy only of our disgust. How that somehow disqualifies a person from having a valid opposition to Xianity is beyond me; it's like the crybabies who claim that because you're angry at Xianity or hate it in any way, your reasons for opposing it are invalid

 

Whatever leftofpunk is whining about, I'm not entirely sure