Trying To Identify A Chinese God

[The Sage Nabooru]

This is a little carving I bought at the China pavilion at Epcot in Disney World. I've been trying to identify it.

 

 

Any ideas?

[Deva]

Sage, since it has a little vase or bottle, it might be a representation of Quan Yin

 

http://www.lava.net/tribalartifacts/qunynex.htm

 

I have seen a lot of different types of statues of the bodhisattva and a lot of them have a vase or bottle, but I don't claim to be an expert.

[Jun]

That's Avalokiteśvara - in Japanese: Kannon, in Chinese: Quan Yin. He/she is not a "god" and not "Chinese." Avalokiteśvara is a Bodhisattva of Buddhism found in India, China, Korea, Japan, Nepal, Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia........

 

The water jar represents the appeasing of thirst.

[Grandpa Harley]

Yup... Quan Yin

[Deva]

That's Avalokiteśvara - in Japanese: Kannon, in Chinese: Quan Yin. He/she is not a "god" and not "Chinese." Avalokiteśvara is a Bodhisattva of Buddhism found in India, China, Korea, Japan, Nepal, Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia........

 

The water jar represents the appeasing of thirst.

 

 

Thanks Jun, I did not know the meaning of the water jar.

[Cracked]

Let me start out by saying I got married to a beautiful Chinese woman last August 18th in Nanning, China.

 

Before I get started let me say I'm not looking for a debate or an argument, I'm only telling people on here what my wife from China told me it is.

 

I asked her what it is and she said it is Quan Yin, but Quan Yin is a Chinese God. Apparently the "Quan Yin" comes in 3rd place on the Chinese god list.

 

First) Jade Emperor

 

Second) Buddha

 

Third) Quan Yin

 

She says the Quan Yin has many different reasons why the Chinese pray to Quan Yin (all for good luck I think) and many different statues in different forms.

 

She is not sure but the Quan Yin in the picture has a big belly so it may be for good luck to have a baby, but it is also holding the water so it may be for cultivation (in other words rain in the winter to bring more plants in the spring).

 

They have many different Quan Yin like I said. Just to name a few, Happiness, Good luck, Baby, Fish and Cultivation, but they have many more Quan Yin.

 

Anyway that is what it means to an average Chinese woman who was born and raised in China.

[Jun]

I'm sorry Quan Yin, Kannon, Avalokiteśvara - is NOT a "god." There are NO "gods" in Buddhism. Bodhisattvas are NOT "gods." Nor is the Buddha a "god."

 

To many Chinese the various statues and such in Buddhism represent "gods" and they are "prayed" to, but that is NOT correct. In that case they are NOT practicing Buddhism at all but some supernatural folk religion.

[Cracked]

My apologies Jun. It seems It was a misinterpretation of "gods" vs "immortals" (although I still don't see the difference between the two).

 

Anyway I need some sleep for now. Maybe we can talk about this more tomorrow. Good night.

[Jun]

My apologies Jun. It seems It was a misinterpretation of "gods" vs "immortals" (although I still don't see the difference between the two).

 

Anyway I need some sleep for now. Maybe we can talk about this more tomorrow. Good night.

 

"immortals?"

 

The Buddha was a man. He lived around 2,550 years ago. He showed us a path to better understanding of life and our problems of life. He's now dead. He was neither an "immortal" or any other supernatural force. Buddhism teaches that through our own efforts we are able to become better people, give up our needless desires, and reach a greater understanding through development of the mind.

 

The Bodhisattvas of Buddhism are nothing more than educational tools, they are designed to teach particular aspects of the Buddha's teaching. Thus we have Avalokiteśvara (Kannon or Quan Yin) the aspect of which is compassion or Kṣitigarbha (Jizõ Bosatsu or Dizang) the aspect of which is the grounding of reality and the dipelling of anger. Many Bodhisattvas were borrowed from Hinduism where they were viewed as gods. The Buddhists adopted them as readily available representations to teach certain aspects of the buddhist path.

 

Bodhisattvas are NOT to be prayed to as this is NOT Buddhism. Buddhism does not require belief in supernatural forces or make-believe gods.

[perianwalsh]

are you sure it's quan yin-doesnt got the lotus there-it might be ma zhu-there's a lot of bodhisattvas-i mean famous ones.I thought quan yin is usually in white?-oh-oh i get it-is it jade?

[Cracked]

My apologies Jun. It seems It was a misinterpretation of "gods" vs "immortals" (although I still don't see the difference between the two).

 

Anyway I need some sleep for now. Maybe we can talk about this more tomorrow. Good night.

 

"immortals?"

 

The Buddha was a man. He lived around 2,550 years ago. He showed us a path to better understanding of life and our problems of life. He's now dead. He was neither an "immortal" or any other supernatural force. Buddhism teaches that through our own efforts we are able to become better people, give up our needless desires, and reach a greater understanding through development of the mind.

 

The Bodhisattvas of Buddhism are nothing more than educational tools, they are designed to teach particular aspects of the Buddha's teaching. Thus we have Avalokiteśvara (Kannon or Quan Yin) the aspect of which is compassion or Kṣitigarbha (Jizõ Bosatsu or Dizang) the aspect of which is the grounding of reality and the dipelling of anger. Many Bodhisattvas were borrowed from Hinduism where they were viewed as gods. The Buddhists adopted them as readily available representations to teach certain aspects of the buddhist path.

 

Bodhisattvas are NOT to be prayed to as this is NOT Buddhism. Buddhism does not require belief in supernatural forces or make-believe gods.

You have a much better understanding of Buddhism then I. I only know what I experienced and what was translated to me in China and now through my wife. I do not study Buddhism but I am a little interested in it. From what I understand, the Chinese have more than 5000 years of traditions, so maybe some traditions (pre Buddha) are still being used in China today and being labeled as being Buddhism.

 

Let me say I am not trying to debate anything but I am only trying to understand what I have seen and heard.

 

Thank You Jun for your patience

 

Douglas

[Jun]

I do cop a lot of "I'm Chinese, and that's how it's practiced in China and has been for centuries so we are right" and that sort of stuff. So sorry if I was a bit blunt.

 

It's hard to dispell commonly held misconceptions - especially those with a cultural history. I too am not looking to debate, only to educate. That is my role.

 

I wish to say sorry to Sage for sidetracking one of her threads - yet again - with one of my (by now) boring little lectures on the many misconceptions of Buddhism. Sorry Sage.

 

are you sure it's quan yin-doesnt got the lotus there-it might be ma zhu-there's a lot of bodhisattvas-i mean famous ones.I thought quan yin is usually in white?-oh-oh i get it-is it jade?

 

With absolute certainty it is Avalokiteśvara. The only Bodhisattva represented holding a water vase. Statues can be of any colour or material and can be either seated on a lotus by itself, a lotus on a throne, or on a throne alone (as this one is).

 

Ma zhu - or Matsu-po (媽祖婆) - is not a Buddhist Bodhisattva but a Taoist god of the sea.

 

Here is a picture of Avalokiteśvara carved from cedar by Kõgen of Tendai-shu in 1532. It was given to me as a gift.

[perianwalsh]

oh,jun ,i say that just because sage says she bought it at china pavillon,and mostly they incorporate their tradition into Buddhism culture.I remember there's other boddhisatva,but i forgot what the carvings are like.It's like alot of my folks have programmed this into their minds and it's hard to change it.

Douglas,I understand what you are talking about.quan yin is deify in chinese culture and,incoporate it with their local cultures,And we called it as buddhism for a lot of generations.

Quan yin(in this culture)-yes mostly they wish for good luck,quan yin is a popular deity among them,but there's too alot of other deity/gods of chinese culture.

[perianwalsh]

oh,i see the picture you put up there,thanks

[The Sage Nabooru]

Thanks everyone.

 

I think Kwan Yin is properly, in this context, best called a deity of that practice generally called "Chinese Traditional Religion" which has built up over thousands of years to include a sort of pantheon that has deities loosely based on the Buddhist bodhisattvas (which many missionizing monks simply made up stories and claims about in order to popularize Buddhism), native religious Taoism, and just some good old home-grown gods. It's somewhat similar to the practice of some Latin religions in having pantheons populated partially by Christian saints who eventually become "gods" or this or that, who pictorally resemble the originals and have somewhat similar attributes yet are far removed from regular Catholic beliefs and practices mostly.

[Jun]

Thanks everyone.

 

I think Kwan Yin is properly, in this context, best called a deity of that practice generally called "Chinese Traditional Religion" which has built up over thousands of years to include a sort of pantheon that has deities loosely based on the Buddhist bodhisattvas (which many missionizing monks simply made up stories and claims about in order to popularize Buddhism), native religious Taoism, and just some good old home-grown gods. It's somewhat similar to the practice of some Latin religions in having pantheons populated partially by Christian saints who eventually become "gods" or this or that, who pictorally resemble the originals and have somewhat similar attributes yet are far removed from regular Catholic beliefs and practices mostly.

 

That's about it, well said Sage. Now, if only we could get most people - the Chinese included - to understand that!