Grandpa Harley Posted September 28, 2007 Author Share Posted September 28, 2007 TBH, the Church was only 'supressed' elsewhere because it came in like the Borg and as a tool of the invaders. Effectively, they were the running dogs of the invaders, trying to grab souls for 'The Empire' most of time, but a lot of the time they were the architects of the horrors seen... They were suppressed for damned good reason. I really have problems being sympathetic to missionaries getting slotted in some third world hell, since a lot of the time, they're reaping pretty much what was sowed for a number of generations. I'm sure Nero was deeply disturbed by the advancing hordes of Christian dogs who obviously orchestrated their public tortures and death as an attempt to overthrow the wonderful and benign rule. Then there was Domitian; anything bad that happened whether it was famine, pestilence, or earthquakes he blamed the Christians and put them to death. Trajan in A.D. 108. Christians were beaten, beheaded, and devoured by wild beasts. About ten thousand Christians were put to death. Then came Marcus Aurelius Antoninas and then Severus. Christians were burned at the stake, had hot tar poured on their heads, beheaded, placed in boiling water and ravaged by wild beasts. Then Maximus; Christians were executed without trial and buried indiscriminately in mass graves, sometimes fifty or sixty cast into a pit together. That gets us up to around 235 AD. I know only a little of your reasons and can see that you detest Christianity in general and perhaps Christians as well, yet I find it a little surprising that you dismiss so much of history in your simplifications. We could throw history blurbs back and forth, but is there thought outside the repeated complaint? Or did the Jews and later the Christians literally bring trouble into an otherwise benign and near perfect world? Buddy No, they only perfected trouble, torture, deceit, and most all forms of repression into an otherwise benign and near perfect world! I think that overstates it, but I would say they've added a lot to the general trouble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 ...Text ... No, they only perfected trouble, torture, deceit, and most all forms of repression into an otherwise benign and near perfect world! Grandpa - you know I like your postings an aweful lot, but I like Dano's an aweful lot too. Maybe Dano is right .... at least from his POV. I know I suffered from nearly exquisite pain from christians ... personally. I have no love for religious folk. Spatz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 ...Text ... No, they only perfected trouble, torture, deceit, and most all forms of repression into an otherwise benign and near perfect world! Grandpa - you know I like your postings an aweful lot, but I like Dano's an aweful lot too. Maybe Dano is right .... at least from his POV. I know I suffered from nearly exquisite pain from christians ... personally. I have no love for religious folk. Spatz Spatz! If you haven't read this I highly recommend that you do. It is very interesting! It is written in clear understandable English, and the logic of it is irrefutable. http://www.simonyi.ox.ac.uk/dawkins/WorldO...2dimbleby.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted September 28, 2007 Author Share Posted September 28, 2007 ...Text ... No, they only perfected trouble, torture, deceit, and most all forms of repression into an otherwise benign and near perfect world! Grandpa - you know I like your postings an aweful lot, but I like Dano's an aweful lot too. Maybe Dano is right .... at least from his POV. I know I suffered from nearly exquisite pain from christians ... personally. I have no love for religious folk. Spatz but I'm prettier than him, so that's ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 ...Text ... No, they only perfected trouble, torture, deceit, and most all forms of repression into an otherwise benign and near perfect world! Grandpa - you know I like your postings an aweful lot, but I like Dano's an aweful lot too. Maybe Dano is right .... at least from his POV. I know I suffered from nearly exquisite pain from christians ... personally. I have no love for religious folk. Spatz but I'm prettier than him, so that's ok... Oh Shit I'm fucked up - I love guys with good language!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of gopf verdeli' - I hat drinks on a friday night............................... ^ Es ist mir so verdammte scheiss... Spatz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted September 28, 2007 Author Share Posted September 28, 2007 xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddyFerris Posted September 29, 2007 Share Posted September 29, 2007 My references to WWII were sound. Read the accounts of Nanking and tell me the US would have done the same. There were no Imperial actions against the troops for having done what they did; there was even imperial sanction for declassifying the Chinese as POWs so that they could be murdered with impunity. Tell me the US or the UK would have done the same. Seriously, K. They would and they have...how many civilians were killed during WW2 by American bombs? during the 19th century American soldiers were known for rounding up native Americans and force baptizing them...then lining them up and shooting them. (cause hey they were saved now right? They gave blankets to them which they knew were infected with small pox to kill them off....and these people were civilians not soldiers...some of them small children. American soldiers can also be quite cruel on the battle field. You might remember a little bit of a social altercation in our country in the 60's over a place called Vietnam. It wasn't an issue because the American soldiers were over there having coffee and toast with the Vietnamese, they were killing an torturing civilians. Are you really this ignorant of your own countries history? Just as a favor to me, K, read the accounts. I'd be interested in your honest comment. Here's a starting place; 1, 2Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin webmdave Posted September 29, 2007 Admin Share Posted September 29, 2007 There have been lots of Massacres. And god supposedly commanded a few of his own. So what's the point? That human beings are violent animals? Well, duh! We didn't climb to the top of the food chain by being sweet to everything. Welcome to reality, Buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted September 29, 2007 Share Posted September 29, 2007 My references to WWII were sound. Read the accounts of Nanking and tell me the US would have done the same. There were no Imperial actions against the troops for having done what they did; there was even imperial sanction for declassifying the Chinese as POWs so that they could be murdered with impunity. Tell me the US or the UK would have done the same. Seriously, K. They would and they have...how many civilians were killed during WW2 by American bombs? during the 19th century American soldiers were known for rounding up native Americans and force baptizing them...then lining them up and shooting them. (cause hey they were saved now right? They gave blankets to them which they knew were infected with small pox to kill them off....and these people were civilians not soldiers...some of them small children. American soldiers can also be quite cruel on the battle field. You might remember a little bit of a social altercation in our country in the 60's over a place called Vietnam. It wasn't an issue because the American soldiers were over there having coffee and toast with the Vietnamese, they were killing an torturing civilians. Are you really this ignorant of your own countries history? Just as a favor to me, K, read the accounts. I'd be interested in your honest comment. Here's a starting place; 1, 2Buddy I looked over the links a bit, I may read them more fully later, but it doesn't seem to be saying anything I was unaware of, I've studied a bit of Asian history... I wasn't claiming the event was good, I was pointing out your ignorance for claim that Christianity would have made people stop. It has never shown that even a bit. The main thing that allowed the Japanese to commit these acts was the fact that most of them viewed the Chinese as being of lesser value than Japanese, they were viewed as not being quite human. This was the same altitude that allowed the Germans in WW2 had towards the Jews and Gypsies, or the U.S had towards American Indians in the 19th century. It is easy to torture and kill when you think the people in question are not really human. I ask you, what in Christianity would teach people not to think this way? IMO absolutely nothing, again the central ideas of original sin, and salvation through Christ alone ENCOURAGE people to think of non-Christians as lesser beings. Of course I can show you many examples of this, but on everyone you just pretend Christianity had nothing to do with it, it was all politics or some such nonsense...as if you can separate a persons beliefs in to different categories and claim that one set of beliefs does not have anything to do with a particular choice they make. It is pure nonsense, again, you live in a fantasy world where Christians can do no wrong and everyone owns a pink fluffy bunny. My point still stands, your point was idiotic, and your statements show that despite your claims of not being a "fundy" you clearly think your own religion is superior to Japanese religion or you would not have made this stupendously moronic statement...that is a trademark of fundamentalist thinking in my book...so perhaps you aren't as open minded as you try to make yourself appear. You are still being extremely hypocritical. Care to expound on how you can blame religion when the Japanese do something wrong and refuse to do so when the U.S. does something wrong? Stop being such a damn hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted September 29, 2007 Share Posted September 29, 2007 Perhaps you should read this quote from an article about the Sand Creek Massacre that was perpetuated in a so called "Christian" nation. Fifteen U.S. soldiers were killed and more than 50 wounded.[13] Between the effects of the heavy drinking and the chaos of the assault, the majority of the U.S. casualties were due by friendly fire.[12] Between 150 and 200 Indians were estimated killed, nearly all elderly men, women and children. In testimony before a Congressional committee investigating the massacre, Chivington reported that as many as 500-600 Indian warriors killed. [14]. One source from the Cheyenne said that about 53 men and 110 women and children were killed.[15] Chivington and his men dressed their weapons, hats and gear with scalps and other body parts, including human fetuses and male and female genitalia. They also publicly displayed these battle trophies in the Apollo Theater and saloons in Denver. Yeah....Christians put such a high value on human life.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankey Posted September 29, 2007 Share Posted September 29, 2007 Yeah....Christians put such a high value on human life.... Funny you should say that. C.S. Lewis: Enemy of The Golden RuleStrike the Root by Lysander's Ghost "Lewis makes it clear that he thinks the soldiers are committing no sin in participating in the war, but argues that it is acceptable for both sides to 'mutually' kill each other, with the only justification that some political-military elite told them to do so. As long as they don't hate the innocents they kill, of course. That is Christian morality?" (07/26/07) http://www.strike-the-root.com/72/lg/lg1.html That and death doesn't really mean much if you have heaven to look forward to. It seems that C.S. Lewis agrees with apostle paul in so far as "Your soul belongs to gawd.....but yer worthless ass belongs to the ruler of the land.....they were put there by gawd!" Hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted September 29, 2007 Author Share Posted September 29, 2007 My references to WWII were sound. Read the accounts of Nanking and tell me the US would have done the same. There were no Imperial actions against the troops for having done what they did; there was even imperial sanction for declassifying the Chinese as POWs so that they could be murdered with impunity. Tell me the US or the UK would have done the same. Seriously, K. They would and they have...how many civilians were killed during WW2 by American bombs? during the 19th century American soldiers were known for rounding up native Americans and force baptizing them...then lining them up and shooting them. (cause hey they were saved now right? They gave blankets to them which they knew were infected with small pox to kill them off....and these people were civilians not soldiers...some of them small children. American soldiers can also be quite cruel on the battle field. You might remember a little bit of a social altercation in our country in the 60's over a place called Vietnam. It wasn't an issue because the American soldiers were over there having coffee and toast with the Vietnamese, they were killing an torturing civilians. Are you really this ignorant of your own countries history? Just as a favor to me, K, read the accounts. I'd be interested in your honest comment. Here's a starting place; 1, 2Buddy Brian, stop squirming and answer the observations made... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano Posted September 29, 2007 Share Posted September 29, 2007 ...Text ... No, they only perfected trouble, torture, deceit, and most all forms of repression into an otherwise benign and near perfect world! Grandpa - you know I like your postings an aweful lot, but I like Dano's an aweful lot too. Maybe Dano is right .... at least from his POV. I know I suffered from nearly exquisite pain from christians ... personally. I have no love for religious folk. Spatz but I'm prettier than him, so that's ok... Oh Shit I'm fucked up - I love guys with good language!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of gopf verdeli' - I hat drinks on a friday night............................... ^ Es ist mir so verdammte scheiss... Spatz Bitte schlafe mit mir. Ein geiler Wicht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano Posted September 29, 2007 Share Posted September 29, 2007 ...Text ... No, they only perfected trouble, torture, deceit, and most all forms of repression into an otherwise benign and near perfect world! Grandpa - you know I like your postings an aweful lot, but I like Dano's an aweful lot too. Maybe Dano is right .... at least from his POV. I know I suffered from nearly exquisite pain from christians ... personally. I have no love for religious folk. Spatz but I'm prettier than him, so that's ok... Put it this way! This is my cat, and I am uglier than him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted September 29, 2007 Share Posted September 29, 2007 Thus ends another fifteen pages of cluster coitus dedicated to "Tennis with Grenades, pins pulled each set, you guess". Thread closed, feel free to blaze on with discussion next thread on this fine Bat Channel. kFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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