Guest Ellytoad Posted September 20, 2007 Posted September 20, 2007 So I'm definitely not a Christian anymore. That doesn't mean I don't still try to look for more evidence to prove to myself that Christianity isn't true. And so far I've come across many... except for one thing, which continues to worry me. The supposed Biblical prophecies of the Last Days. Many Christians, I'm pretty sure, are looking at the state of the world today and thinking "these are definitely the signs of the last days." Now, personally I just think to myself, "things have been crazy among human civilization for thousands of years, and this isn't any different." But it's hard to keep from thinking that maybe it is rather a lot worse than what mankind has experienced thus far in terms of war and natural disasters. So how would you refute the idea that these are the Last Days and all the prophecies outlined in the Bible about them are coming true?
Spoomonkey Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 So how would you refute the idea that these are the Last Days and all the prophecies outlined in the Bible about them are coming true? How do I refute that THESE are the last days or that the first century wasn't? Or that the end of the first millennium wasn't? Or that the 70's weren't? We have never NOT been in the "last days"... Spoomonkey
Japedo Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 So I'm definitely not a Christian anymore. That doesn't mean I don't still try to look for more evidence to prove to myself that Christianity isn't true. And so far I've come across many... except for one thing, which continues to worry me. The supposed Biblical prophecies of the Last Days. Many Christians, I'm pretty sure, are looking at the state of the world today and thinking "these are definitely the signs of the last days." Now, personally I just think to myself, "things have been crazy among human civilization for thousands of years, and this isn't any different." But it's hard to keep from thinking that maybe it is rather a lot worse than what mankind has experienced thus far in terms of war and natural disasters. So how would you refute the idea that these are the Last Days and all the prophecies outlined in the Bible about them are coming true? Hi there Ellytoad, welcome to Ex-C! Knowledge is power. Things aren't nearly as dismal as Xtians like to proclaim. Like any good prophecy they take things that are given and predict them. Both weather and wars will be a given no matter what era it is. Look at it this way.. As far as weather, this planet has survived and moved onward and forward from an Ice Age. The earth is always evolving and always changing. Storms, earthquakes volcanoes and so forth are a natural part of this planet and will continue to be until the earth ceases to exist. Imagine if this planet had no storms, earthquake and so forth for entire year. Something along those lines would be a more realistic prophecy and less likely to happen. That would truly take an act of gawd.. . I know people like to contribute weather to the gods but... well no such reality exists. The same argument can be made for wars. There will always be people trying to keep power,land, and people trying to take power/land. That is as likely to go on as long as the weather.
מה טבו Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 I just think to myself, "things have been crazy among human civilization for thousands of years, and this isn't any different." But it's hard to keep from thinking that maybe it is rather a lot worse than what mankind has experienced thus far in terms of war and natural disasters. So how would you refute the idea that these are the Last Days and all the prophecies outlined in the Bible about them are coming true? War and natural disasters are going to seem worse and worse as the population increases. Katrina was a Cat 4 hurricane. We've had those forever - but it hit a city of millions, so it was devastating. In the days before skyscrapers, there was no way in hell you could kill 3000 people by attacking 2 buildings. There are more people crowded into the same spaces - so when disaster hits, it has a greater impact. The disasters themselves haven't changed (except for the technology of war), but the number of people involved has. As for prophesies - read the Bible. Seriously. Read the book of Revalations. You'll notice that it's actually a pretty hallucinogenic text with "prophesies" so vague they can be interpreted to apply to almost any day and time. And indeed, they have. Christians have been thinking they were in the "last days" since the earliest followers of Josh of Nazareth thought he was going to return in their lifetimes. Last days? Well, we do have a lot of potential for apocolypse - nuclear war, meteor, deadly pandemic, global warming, wandering black hole. You could spend your time worrying about it - but here's the deal. The mortality rate is still constant at 100%. Whether you die alone or in a mass disaster with thousands or millions of others, you're going to die. I'm going to die. We all are. But, you've got the present moment.
Mike D Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 It's funny, last night I was bored and flipping through channels and I came across TBN, and that buffoon Jack Van Impe and his wife were on (Roxella is that her name? lol). Anyway Jack went on to say that he received confirmation that we're in the last days because the Bible says (and I am paraphrasing here) that in the end times horseless chariots will do battle with each other. Well, Jack went on to explain that "horseless chariots" are modern day automobiles (lol) and them doing battle with each other is what we know as "road rage" (LMAO!!!). I almost spit my drink out with laughter when he came up with that absurdity! But the scary thing is.... people really honestly believe this stuff!! Anyway the point is that the Bible (and especially that completely incoherent book of nonsensical babble known as "Revelation"), is so non-specific and vague with some of it's writings that people like Jack Van Impe go through and come up with all kinds of ludicrous translations of the so called "prophecies". Is it possible that the writer of Revelation really meant what he wrote (like actual horseless chariots will do battle with each other) because the entire book is nothing more than one huge grand hallucination? I think not only is it possible, but it's a fact.
GraphicsGuy Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 What prophecies are coming true? Where? When? Okay, with most "prophecies" you can apply dozens of different meanings to them. Not to mention, is it really that hard to make predictions that *might* come true at some point or another? I mean, I can predict an economic collapse in North America and it's possible it *might* happen. Does it mean that my prediction came from God? Hardly. When it comes to Revelations...well, what do you take literally and what do you take symbolically? This part here, this part there? Is it possible for a third of the sun, moon, and stars to stop shining? Physically...no. Do dragons and multiheaded beasts actually exist? Are there any "stars" about to fall into the ocean and poison our waters? Are there angels bound at the junctions of the Tigris and Eurphrates? Is there an entrance to the bottomless pit somewhere on earth? (Hollow Earth theory anyone?) Who is the Whore of Babylon? Is she hot? How about all the "miracles" that good old Natas will apparently perform? You know he performs SO MANY of them today. Sorry, that's just a few things off the top of my head, if you want more details I can keep going. The "Rapture" doctrine is nothing more than wishful thinking by people who are too damn afraid to accept reality but really fucking scared to die. They just want to be whisked away. Funny how they think that God would take them all away before the tribulation because, "he wouldn't allow his children to suffer" when "his children" are suffering and persecuted on other countries all over the world everyday. Selfish North American bastards!
texmex2003 Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 Ellytoad, As I was leaving the sect, I was a preterist. Meaning that I was one of the believers that had the mindset all prophecy was completed at the fall of Jerusalem. There are many preterist authors out there that refute the whole "Left Behind" mind-belief and why it is so dangerous. Eventhough you are no longer a believer, some of these books may give you ammunition against these dreadful "end-of-the-worlders." Times also seem scarier than previous times, due to our 24-hour news coverage. We always seem to be in danger from something. Is your child's milk safe? The dangers of croc shoes, flip-flops, etc. Not to mention, the ability now for one bomb to kill 100s of thousands which if ever detonated will cause worldwide destruction because of retailiation. How did things look during the onset of WWI, we had a global economic depression, a worldwide flu pandemic that killed more than the war did, and not to mention the war? Things seemed to point to the endtimes then, but the 85 years later, the world continues to spin on its axis and the human race still continues to populate the earth. My fear are those who feel they need to help the "rapture" and "armageddon" along. We have very powerful officials in both the Paulist sect and Muhammad sect, that have this mindset. They can destroy hundreds of thousands just to help their god.
twincats Posted September 21, 2007 Posted September 21, 2007 There is an excellent book on this topic called "A History of the End of the World" by Jonathan Kirsch. It even contains the entire book of Revelations (KJV) as an appendix. Basically, what the author says is that humankind has been on the brink of the Apocalypse for the last 2,000 years.
Piprus Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 It will all end in 2012. ...give or take a few thousand years
texmex2003 Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Actually, December 21, 2012, according to the Mayan calander
Piprus Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Actually, December 21, 2012, according to the Mayan calander So noted. I'll definitely want to take the day off from work.
Ouroboros Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Actually, December 21, 2012, according to the Mayan calander Yup. Around that time depending on the method of calculation (21nd-22nd). At the same time as the solar solstice, a solar eclipse. And sometime that year NASA planned start of the Orion Starship, and much more...
Luke Wolf Posted September 24, 2007 Posted September 24, 2007 I would get a history book, highlite certain areas, make notes, and point out where in all reality, there have been times that better fitted the end of times description that today.
mwc Posted September 24, 2007 Posted September 24, 2007 But Paul says to the Thessalonians: 2 For you yourselves have the knowledge that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 When they say, There is peace and no danger, then sudden destruction will come on them, as birth-pains on a woman with child; and they will not be able to get away from it. Doesn't that mean that everything will be just fine and dandy before jesus returns? How can that be when it's supposed to be all turbulent and horrible according to jesus himself and Revelation? 5 And Jesus said to them, Take care that you are not tricked by anyone. 6 People will come in my name, saying, I am he; and a number will be turned from the true way. 7 And when you have news of wars and talk of wars, do not be troubled; these things have to be, but it is still not the end. 8 Nation will go to war with nation, and kingdom with kingdom: there will be earth-shocks in different places; there will be times when there is no food; these things are the first of the troubles. Yep. That's what I thought. Fake jesus', wars, famine and earthquakes are just the beginning of our troubles...not the end. Paul and jesus seem to have things reversed from one another. It's so confusing. Like it's all just pulled out of their asses. mwc
Guest Notanotherchristian!? Posted October 1, 2007 Posted October 1, 2007 So I'm definitely not a Christian anymore. That doesn't mean I don't still try to look for more evidence to prove to myself that Christianity isn't true. And so far I've come across many... except for one thing, which continues to worry me. The supposed Biblical prophecies of the Last Days. Many Christians, I'm pretty sure, are looking at the state of the world today and thinking "these are definitely the signs of the last days." Now, personally I just think to myself, "things have been crazy among human civilization for thousands of years, and this isn't any different." But it's hard to keep from thinking that maybe it is rather a lot worse than what mankind has experienced thus far in terms of war and natural disasters. So how would you refute the idea that these are the Last Days and all the prophecies outlined in the Bible about them are coming true? Oh man, again I'm sick of the fact that Christians seem to think 'the end of the world is nigh!' Any serious Jewish or Christian historian would know that neither the Jews or early Christians were waiting for a catyclismic end to the space/time continuum. Ps is this isn't a dig at you but at the silly people who think the bible bypasses the relevance for its first hearers and has everything to say to us in the 21st century. Its quite an arrogant thought really and one I'm sick of hearing. Can we have a 'Left Behind' burning book series pyre party please?
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