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Goodbye Jesus

What Would Make You A Christian Again?


bush country

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Starting this with a nod to Antlerman and Pitchu.

 

Asking ex-C's, what would make you a Christian again?

 

I have no reason to think that god exists, so for me it would involve god showing up in some discernable way. Something that I absolutely know could not have been faked or that I created in my own mind.

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I would need a revelation from this God that was true. As the bible is a lie it would take one hell of a lot. Even then is a God that has lied worthy of worship?

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Asking ex-C's, what would make you a Christian again?

 

BTW - cute dog.

 

How do I answer this clearly and still deal with the complexity. I need to break this into 2 questions.

 

The first question is: "How would you fool me and brain wash me into joining the Jesus cult again?"

The second question is: "Assuming god is real, what would it take for me to be convinced he is real and to become a follower of his?"

 

Q1 - I think to do this, you would have to:

1 Put me in a setting where I am surrounded by manipulative lying xtians 7/24 who not only prayed for miracles but were very very skilled at manufacturing them in an exceptionally deceptive way.

2 These people would have to recognize human intellegence as god given and hence it should be honored rather than savaged and disparraged. :Doh:

3 These people would have to honor the words of Jesus. :lmao:

4 These people would have to stop condemning brethern who fail and repeatedly forgive sin (70 x7 times).

Note - item 1 is utterly irreconcilable with 2 & 3 & 4 so in other words, my eyes are too open to close them now.

 

Q2 - Now... the problem with this question is who that god turns out to be.

If god is a good god then I would think he would need to do something about Darfur.

If god is vengeful, I think he would need to infect hiprocrates like Pat Robertson and Jimmy Swaggart with incurable leprocy and put massive open sores on their peckers.

If god turns out to be Jesus then he'd have to show up on earth and publicly condemn Saul of Tarsus as an imposter and corrupter of his teachings and issue a revised version of the bible that obviously mis-quoted him.

If god tuyrns out to be the "giver of life" then he'd have to give me a life that is more rewarding and vital then the one I have now. My godless life easily beats my former xtian life so that's a tall mother of an order.

 

Now... maybe someone says "That's not fair? That's not the real question."

 

Here is the thing... if you ask me, "What could make you go back to Pentecostalism?" then you are missing the point that I have already rejected that - and quite throroughly I might add.

 

You see, if Jesus came back and said the truth was closest to AOG/PAOC, or Baptist or Catholic or Luthern etc., then I'd merely need to be convinced that Jesus was really god but therin lay my connundrum.

If Jesus were Baptist or some other denomination, I'd be more inclined to believe he were Satan in disguise and I'd still be left wondering "So I know who Satan is, but who is god and why doesn't he show up?"

 

Maybe that is the thing, if there is a real god... he/she/it can't possibly be xtian because any god of any quality certainly doesn't give a rats ass about the whinny assed, insipant prayer requests that xtians spew. God caring about every hair on your head and whether it rains for the church picnic is nonsence.

 

For me to believe that pile of shit, Jesus would have to come to my house and do the dishes, clean the yard, wash my clothes, shovel the snow, rub my back, shine my shoes, make me the perfect weight, picture of health and give me 50 billion dollars. Only then would I believe that god really was interested in my whinny assed concerns rather than Darfur.

 

In other words, god would have to start making sense and **that** very constraint, that god is xtian, precludes it.

 

Mongo

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Irreffutable proof that the demented, capricious , child-king of the bible exists

 

And even then, I'd not be a 'Christian'... since in a demented universe, insanity is the only sane response...

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When there are no more atheists.

 

This is because the existence of a god is so obvious its like the sun talking to us, as an example.

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It would have to be completely and totally different.

 

Seriously, there's so little that's redeeming or logical, that I wouldn't know where to begin on this. It would need to espouse peace and encourage good character, serve humanity and hte world, and have some proof that complies with the logic that its god allegedly created. I don't know. I guess there are just too many problems to resolve them all and have it still be able to call itself "Christianity."

 

Many years ago, I answered this question differently when it was posed by pitchu. I thought that there might be something that could bring me back. It is interesting that now that I actually am contemplating turning to a spiritual tradition that I am convinced nothing could make me return. Back then, I was a pretty hardcore atheist. Perhaps it is the exposure to other things that allows me to recognize that Christianity is so inadequate.

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What would make me a christian again???

 

When pigs can fly. B)

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I suppose it's theoretically possible that something could make me a Christian again, but I honestly can't think of what that thing would be. It would have to involve the utter loss of my free will, memory, conscience, sense of decency, sense of empathy, and capacity for reason. In short, it would have to involve the loss of my entire mind and character. So since I wouldn't be "me" anymore, I guess nothing could really make "me" a Christian.

 

Honestly, when I was an Atheist, I'd have probably had a different answer - given it some more leeway. But now that I actually know the Jewish scriptures, and know first-hand the fallacies and outright fraud on which Christianity is based - I can't think of anything that would get me to follow it.

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Probably something on the order of Christ appearing in front of me and us have a face-to-face conversation. Even as a child I used to wonder-- they say he's alive, but where is he? He would have to show up, that is the miniumum requirement. Then we would take it from that point to other issues.

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Going back to Christianity is like going back to grade school after graduating university

 

why bother when previous experience has been had? and "going back" is a good term coz it denotes a backward step.

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In the parent thread, TexasFreethinker said:

 

As a non-believer there definitely are things that could occur that would make be reconsider my non-belief. For example, a guy I fly with each week had his leg blown off in Iraq. If he and I were to pray to the Christian god for his leg to be restored and "poof" his natural leg was suddenly back and his false leg evaporated in front of us I would immediately reconsider. If two Christians were to agree in prayer that Mount Rainier should be moved from near Seattle to become an island off the coast of Houston and I witnessed it flying over Dallas on its way to its new home, I would immediately reconsider. If a Christian told me that her god had given her advance knowledge of the names of each person who would be killed by lightening strikes in the US next year and those predictions all came true, I would immediately reconsider (and I probably wouldn't wait until the end of the year!)

 

In other words, I am very open to considering compelling, verifiable, unambiguous evidence that a god exists.

I don't think I can improve on that. Tally me up for that same sort of answer, too.

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Probably something on the order of Christ appearing in front of me and us have a face-to-face conversation. Even as a child I used to wonder-- they say he's alive, but where is he? He would have to show up, that is the miniumum requirement. Then we would take it from that point to other issues.

 

Sure but... if that conversation went along the lines of what the bible suggests, could you respect him?

 

Seriously... if you asked him whether he cares about our simplest need and why he doesn't answer prayers of young children being raped in Darfur... could you respect him?

 

Honest to goodness if the bible contains a shred of truth then I'm thinking Satan merely has a bad publicist.

 

Hence I'd might be tempted to ask... "Can you make Satan appear so that I can ask him a couple of questions?"

 

The only thing I can think of is if god makes it very clear that he is an ammoral tyrant and that if I do what he says, I'll get less punishment, I'd go along since "He's the boss".

 

Mongo

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Sure but... if that conversation went along the lines of what the bible suggests, could you respect him?

 

I very much doubt that it would. If it did, probably not. This is very theoretical.

 

Seriously... if you asked him whether he cares about our simplest need and why he doesn't answer prayers of young children being raped in Darfur... could you respect him?

 

Depends on his answer. I am not trying to be insulting. This is a very theoretical situation. I am sure that what would be sufficent evidence for me would not apply to everyone. Each to their own. Also, I think an appearance of Satan would be interesting too.

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A simple fulfillment of prophecy would convince me.

 

The entire world witnessing Jesus and his army coming in the clouds, followed by the spontaneous levitation of all believers into the sky.

 

But since we all know that isn't going to happen (ever) - I'll just plod on as an obnoxious scoffer.

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I wrote this in the other thread, but will post it again here:

 

Simple - for Christianity to live up to its billing...

 

In other words, when it causes more good than ill in the world. When its followers are examples of compassion and not judgement. When being a Christian doesn't mean keeping your skeletons in a closet. When Christians reject and repent of centuries of atrocity done either in the name of God or because of a direct command by God. When being a Christian is no longer just an exercise in "self-masturbation" and the idea of Hell doesn't actually make the average Christian feel good... And - for God to show up, and not just in the form of some random prophet, and eliminate the abilguity about who he is and what he wants.

 

In other words, when Christianity tears down the altars and starts over, rebuilding from scratch a hate-filled and flawed system of control, intimidation and hypocrisy.

 

Good luck with that...

 

Spoomonkey

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For starters, even if I believed in the Christian God again....that would not mean that I would choose heaven. The only way I would kiss bible gods ass again is if he promised me oblivion after I died......that way I don't have to spend eternity in hell or be stuck eternally in the presence of such an incredible dick head like the bibles God.

 

In order for me to believe in the Christian God.....God would have to reveal himself to the entire world. The same kind of revelation that abraham, moses, gideon, the apostles got according to the bibles mythology books. Gideon is a really good example.

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Starting this with a nod to Antlerman and Pitchu.

 

Asking ex-C's, what would make you a Christian again?

 

I have no reason to think that god exists, so for me it would involve god showing up in some discernable way. Something that I absolutely know could not have been faked or that I created in my own mind.

 

There is nothing that would make me go back to praying to a dead Jew(who almost certainly never existed).

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To become Christian again?

 

Start having visions, visitations of angels, see miracles on a daily basis when I pray (would require I start praying again). Just a simple things as if I touch someone they get instantly healed, and then hear God's voice telling me that it's him healing the people. I'd travel the world and empty every hospital and preach the Gospel.

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I can't believe nobody said this yet... :scratch:

 

 

Asking ex-C's, what would make you a Christian again?
Why... It would take and act of God, of course. :lmao:

 

 

:cunn:

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I kept my OP statement short and simple. Here is a longer answer.

 

I am what Dawkins describes as a level six atheist in The God Delusion. "Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist." For me that short of zero is very, very close to zero. So the question breaks down in to many parts. Or at least the answer does. What it would take for me to return now is very different than what it would have taken to stop my deconversion in the first place.

 

First god would have to show up. It would have to be in some real way that I sense and absolutely know that it was him. Prior to my deconversion I prayed for this to happen many times. It never did. That is the one thing that would have stopped my deconversion.

 

Second, he would have to show me that he is actually the god of the Hebrew bible.

 

Third, once he showed up he would have to make it apparent to me that the whole Jesus thing was, in fact, his plan for our salvation. However screwed up and goofy it was, that was the plan.

 

That's pretty much it. Other things that might at least make me lean a little toward returning:

Prove the bible without using the bible.

Christians actually having real christian behavior.

Pastors that really do sell everything and follow the lord.

Churches using the money given them for something other than building bigger buildings, such as helping the homeless, single parents, abused children, donating to real medical research to cure diseases, and doing those things at home, not just in some foreign country.

Televangelists being exposed for the charlatans they are and the whole genre going out of business.

 

I could go on.

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Nothing less than Jesus H. Christ himself showing up and instantly curing me of MS.

 

P.S. I've read fundy apologists claiming that the reason we no longer see healing miracles like those described in the NT is that we hard-hearted skeptical people of the 21st century wouldn't believe their divine origin anyway so god doesn't bother. Bull hockey! Not only would a miraculous cure re-convert me, it would also turn me into the biggest evangelizing pain-in-the-arse the world has ever known.

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Absolutely nothing.

Jesus could fully materialize before me, tell me how much he loves me and wants me to spend eternity with him, and I would still kick him in the balls.

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the only possible way for me to be a christian is the second i ask to be struck by lightning and it hit me and i died and went to heaven. if i were in the christian afterlife i would believe it.

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SpooMonkey said,

 

"When being a Christian doesn't mean keeping your skeletons in a closet."

 

Right-the-fuck-ON, brother!

 

I deal with that kind of shit every fucking day. Xtians believing that their fucking imaginary UberGhostie has really cured the fucking drunks, pedophiles, wife-beaters, mainliners and just general assholes. You know, in the REAL world, people get sent to clinics, 12-step programs, institutions and even fucking jails so that SOMEONE can help them deal with their shit without them being either a burden on or a threat to the general population. No one believes that MagicSKyMan, the Flying Zombie Jew and Casper are really supernaturally transforming ANYONE. And, hey, in the real world, even if Jayzus HAS "saved" your soul, the clinics and institutions are still gonna expect honest hard work, a shred or two of integrity AND the right to assume that the threat of the problem is always there.

 

Not so with the churches. They hide their fucking heads in the sand and either pretend that the issues don't exist or are "miraculously" dealt with. Short of that, the motherfuckers run a spin on the facts in public and some kind of damage control behind the scenes, always just for the sake of getting the shit hidden and forgotten.

 

What would make me a Xtian again? Not a fucking thing. The idea that every flavor of "unsaved, hell-bound heathen" in my experience has produced better, more moral and more loving people is the fucking death-blow to the already and permanently dead Flying Zombie Jew and his entourage of shitheads.

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