Mythra Posted July 13, 2005 Author Share Posted July 13, 2005 I think you make it more complex than it needs to be. To be saved, follow the model of what one of the other men being crucified beside Jesus did and said. He verbalized his recognition of his own unworthiness; he recognized who Jesus was and told him so; he asked to be included among those Jesus redeems. Then Jesus affirms that the man is indeed included. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh, I didn't understand at all. I see. Ignore all of Jesus' teachings, live however the fuck I want, then with my last breath say "Jesus remember me". Cool. You're right. I complicated matters way too much. Look out heaven. St. Peter, get the fuck out of the way. Here I come. Is there a emoticon for vomitting? Oh yeah. Here it is. CC: What if I decided that the only scripture that matters is "Unless you forsake all that you have, you CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE". I mean, this is WHAT WAS STATED BY THE LORD JESUS. Then, I go around and condemn every single christian who possesses anything more than a change of clothes. Just as valid a "cherry picking" of scripture as what you are doing. Thankful: I choked on my coffee when I was reading your list of denominations and got to Anandianity. Good One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerebralchristian Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Oh, I didn't understand at all. I see. Ignore all of Jesus' teachings, live however the fuck I want, then with my last breath say "Jesus remember me". Cool. You're right. I complicated matters way too much. Look out heaven. St. Peter, get the fuck out of the way. Here I come Is there a emoticon for vomitting? Oh yeah. Here it is. CC: No need to be so sarcastic. Mythra: What if I decided that the only scripture that matters is "Unless you forsake all that you have, you CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE". I mean, this is WHAT WAS STATED BY THE LORD JESUS. Then, I go around and condemn every single christian who possesses anything more than a change of clothes. Just as valid a "cherry picking" of scripture as what you are doing. CC: Logic? You are being almost . . . silly about this, Mythra. Sort of "nanny-nanny boo-booish." If you don't agree with my answer to the question, fine. But please don't abandon common sense just to make a point. Obviously, I did not say that the thief-on-the-cross vignette was the be-all and end-all; I said it was a sufficient model to follow if a model is needed. I never said or implied that other scripture must be disregarded. <shaking head in frustration> I am certainly not "cherry picking. I simply gave an example. Anyway, why should you care one way or the other what Christians suggest as a way to connect with Christ? We already know that you think it's all bunk. Surely you don't disagree with my suggestion because you favor a *different* template for getting saved? What are you really, actually arguing about here? CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Speaking of the thief on the cross, why did Jesus lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I think you make it more complex than it needs to be. To be saved, follow the model of what one of the other men being crucified beside Jesus did and said. He verbalized his recognition of his own unworthiness; he recognized who Jesus was and told him so; he asked to be included among those Jesus redeems. Then Jesus affirms that the man is indeed included. To be saved, tell Jesus you know who he is; you know who you are and how much you need his redemption; and just *ask* to be included in his family. Just ask him to enter your life/heart and be your savior and lord. Tell him what you believe and then just ask. No word games, no technicalities. If you need him/love him, just tell him and ask him to remain in you forever. This what I did, and it changed my life. A mystical, amazing experience. CC You forgot baptism. Without being immersed in water you can not be in Christ. Sorry, you just are not a TrueChristian and are not qualified to advise Mythra. Mythra pay no attention to this heathen, least you burn in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Mythra, I thought I'd put in my $.02 on what I think anyone has to do to be saved... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Its already been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Great, then we all going to heaven. I'm sure Stalin and the millions he ordered killed are happy about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted July 13, 2005 Author Share Posted July 13, 2005 Anyway, why should you care one way or the other what Christians suggest as a way to connect with Christ? CC <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Here, you are spot-on. I do not care. And I could care less what you or whackamole choose to believe. The purpose of this thread (like many of mine) is solely to point out the absurdity and incongruity inherent within the Religion of Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted July 13, 2005 Author Share Posted July 13, 2005 With that WHY IS YOUR VERSION "THE" TRUTH but not that of a Jehovah Witness?Tell US, WHY, the other 1,000 denominations of Christianity are wrong. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> EXACTAMUNDO. For every christian that says "salvation by grace alone", there's one that says "salvation by grace plus.." Or, we can advance to the Mormons and their requirements for heaven. That would get the christians going. Just remember. All of these different plans are derived from the Holy Bible. But God is not the author of confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Great, then we all going to heaven. I'm sure Stalin and the millions he ordered killed are happy about it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I didn't say there isn't accountablility and responsibility for one's actions. As it seems to me.... that is for each and everyone too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerebralchristian Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Let me simplify this so that you Christians can understand. Here is a scenario. JW is out knocking on doors, bringing people to Jesus and salvation. On the same street, during the rest of the week we have Assembly of Godders, Church of Christer's, Baptists, Messianic Jews, etc. knocking on the same doors. WHO THE HELL'S VERSION OF SALVATION IS CORRECT....THEY ALL CLAIM THAT THEIR VERSION IS "THE" TRUTH?????? Is it really that hard to answer the question? It's confusing for the one being witnessed to. With that WHY IS YOUR VERSION "THE" TRUTH but not that of a Jehovah Witness? Tell US, WHY, the other 1,000 denominations of Christianity are wrong. CC: There is a big difference between the many Christian denominations and the JWs. The Christian denominations tend to have stylistic differences in how they express themselves in worship and small doctrinal differences that do not keep them from agreeing on the Nicene Creed. The main exception I see to this would be the Roman Catholic Church with its quite different views on saints, etc. But the creeds-- Nicene, Apostles, etc.-- spell out what all Christian churches agree on. It is a mistake, I feel, to worry much about the small differences that fall outside of the creeds. Regarding the JWs and Christian Science, Mormonism, etc. -- these are separate religions, although it is true that some Mormons consider themselves to be Christians in a broad sense. (As to why it is that separate religions exist: it's a very interesting sociological question, one that I do think about, but in the end I trust God to treat all people with greater mercy and fairness than any human could.) I realize now after a day or two in this forum that most of the questions are not sincere questions but are really condemnations of Christianity. Nevertheless, I am going to answer the question as if it were genuine since I might be wrong about the lack of sincerity. So in good faith --- My feeling on all these differences is to major on the majors and minor onthe minors. I am not bothered by the perpetual conflict between the Calvinists and the Arminians. I don't much care whether Communion should be given at every service or just once a month. These are human disputes that we probably won't settle in this life. And I don't think we'll care either way in the next life. What I do concentrate on is that I wake up every day and enjoy communing with God. I read the Bible-- daily, if all goes well-- but I don't wring my hands over whether we're saved by grace as oposed to faith or whether services should be on Sunday or on Saturday. Jesus Christ entered my life and he is my Lord. That's key for me, not so much the other issues. So much of what I've read in this forum and in the Testimonies section is about people getting very hung up on what I see as superfluous issues. I read several accounts of people leaving the faith because they didn't get answers on issues that I see as tangential to loving God and being in a continual relationship with Him. My beliefs tend to reflect the basic tenets in the Nicene Creed with additional things that I have come to believe through my supernatural experiences. Fundamentalists tend to say I have a litle too much of a "New Agey" orientation. <shrug> I believe the scripture is intended by God to provide edification for us and I do believe he speaks directly in much of it, but I'm not in the inerrancy--as-in-every-piece-of-syntax-is-verbatim-from-the-Throne" camp. I believe that there can be some factual errors-- no big deal-- such as how many legs animals have or whether cetrain animals chew the cud or not. I believe it's okay that some human personality issues play into some of the writing. (Paul, etc.) I don't see the problem with the Genesis creation account-- maybe it's literal; maybe it's symbolic. Either way, it tells us basically what happened, whether it be in actual 24-hour periods or whether it be via long periods using evolution. I believe it all came about through God's intentional design, one way or another. There are some distinctions that don't really make a difference, and I don't fret over those. So to sum up, I am not saying that any of you should agree with me or should have approached God the way I do, I am only letting you know my perspective. It has really surprised me how many times I've seen contributors here say "What about this verse?" or "Aha-- but that contradicts that verse!" My approach would be to spend much time in prayer, open-minded study and get to know the Lord as closely as possible *apart* from these doctrinal disputes. Because if a person doesn't have that close relationship with God, the doctrinal issues are moot. CC (please pardon typos!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerebralchristian Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 CC, thank you for answering the question. Whether we agree with your answer or not, you didn't dodge the issue. That's all I was asking for, thank you. I don't like your assumption though that we left for superflous reasons though, that is your opinion. Many of us left for after much deep and intense studying and looking within. This was not an easy decision for me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> CC: Oh-- I'm sorry. I didn't mean that. What I meant is that *some* of the accounts I read involved people leaving the faith for reasons that seem to me to be things that could *perhaps* have been worked out outside of a Fundy or Fundy-esque framework. I don't doubt the agonizing you and others went through. I didn't mean to make light of it. CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExRC Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 This thread illustrates a common problem when debating with Christians. They can never give a straight answer to a direct question. The reponses are filled with sophistry and non-sensical "feel good" language. This reminds me of a debate I had once on another forum. According to the Catholic Church, the use of birth control is a mortal sin, worthy of condemnation to hell unless you appropriately repent (ridiculous...I know, but try not to laugh). I tried for days to get one Catholic to give me a straight answer explaining what in the hell a condom or the birth control pill has to do with salvation, and the grand scheme of things. Oh boy, you should have seen some of the responses. I felt like a gerbil running on one of those wheels. (As a side note, isn't it interesting to think that all those non-Catholic Christians who do use birth control are hell bound and they don't even know it? ) Anyway, this seems to be a common problem. It's apparent in pretty much any thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted July 14, 2005 Author Share Posted July 14, 2005 This reminds me of a debate I had once on another forum. According to the Catholic Church, the use of birth control is a mortal sin, worthy of condemnation to hell unless you appropriately repent (ridiculous...I know, but try not to laugh). I tried for days to get one Catholic to give me a straight answer explaining what in the hell a condom or the birth control pill has to do with salvation, and the grand scheme of things. Oh boy, you should have seen some of the responses. I felt like a gerbil running on one of those wheels. (As a side note, isn't it interesting to think that all those non-Catholic Christians who do use birth control are hell bound and they don't even know it? ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, and the Catholics are slapping on rubbers and worshipping Mary. That'll get ya sauteed too. Ring-a-round the rosie, we all get fried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silent One Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Regarding the JWs and Christian Science, Mormonism, etc. -- these are separate religions, although it is true that some Mormons consider themselves to be Christians in a broad sense. Come back when you actually know something about Jehovah's Witnesses. Witnesses=Christians, fringe ones, sure, but Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Come back when you actually know something about Jehovah's Witnesses. Witnesses=Christians, fringe ones, sure, but Christians. Christians are fond of calling other Christians not-Christians. It is a great passtime for them and keeps them busy when they are not harrasing us heathens. We should be greatful that most of their prosylitizing efforts go towards getting other Christians to change brands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silent One Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Oh, I know. JW's do that as well - I'm just sick of hearing it, from both groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Yeah, and the Catholics are slapping on rubbers and worshipping Mary. That'll get ya sauteed too. Ring-a-round the rosie, we all get fried. It's because they DONT slap on the rubbers they get all these Virgin Mary's on the windows... you know what I mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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