Guest end3 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 The part that talks about everyone is to bring something.....a hymn, a teaching, a prophecy, etc.....One of the things that most irritates me is not being allowed to contribute on this level. My questions are: Were you allowed to participate in this manner? Was there any frustration in this regard? Did it play a part in leaving Christianity? If I have offended someone by starting this thread, or if it is inappropriate to inquire, I apologize in advance and ask the moderators to remove it if they deem necessary. Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 end3, If subject is important to you, and not blathering bullshit, it'll stand as posted. I hated being herded in and out of the services like someone buying a fucking used car. In the front door, shown the goods, sign the contract, put the down payment down, then shuffled out damn near as fast as could be done several times weekly. Shit got to sound so *canned* that even after a years away from the AoG group I had belonged to the messages sounded damn near the same. Got to point I could have repeated them word for word, with all the good by-bull skuLLe shit tossed in to ensure hearing pleasure for crowds.. Aint'a nothing like a new wave pentecostal preacher burning the bullshit in evening services.. kFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldjew Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 The part that talks about everyone is to bring something.....a hymn, a teaching, a prophecy, etc.....One of the things that most irritates me is not being allowed to contribute on this level. My questions are: Were you allowed to participate in this manner? Was there any frustration in this regard? Did it play a part in leaving Christianity? If I have offended someone by starting this thread, or if it is inappropriate to inquire, I apologize in advance and ask the moderators to remove it if they deem necessary. Thanks all. What a strange question to ask. Why would you think we quit Christianity for any of those reasons? That is a pretty lame question. But I believe you wanted to post a thread to see where it goes and did not know how to word it, so I suppose we all just have to sit back and see what gets posted. And my answer as to why I gave up Christianity is a long story and I don't want to rewrite it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 The part that talks about everyone is to bring something.....a hymn, a teaching, a prophecy, etc.....One of the things that most irritates me is not being allowed to contribute on this level. My questions are: Were you allowed to participate in this manner? Was there any frustration in this regard? Did it play a part in leaving Christianity? If I have offended someone by starting this thread, or if it is inappropriate to inquire, I apologize in advance and ask the moderators to remove it if they deem necessary. Thanks all. What a strange question to ask. Why would you think we quit Christianity for any of those reasons? That is a pretty lame question. But I believe you wanted to post a thread to see where it goes and did not know how to word it, so I suppose we all just have to sit back and see what gets posted. And my answer as to why I gave up Christianity is a long story and I don't want to rewrite it again. Perhaps this is someone who is absolutely sure that they heard/saw something from God and they want to share it, but are not being allowed to for whatever reason.... maybe no one believes them. In that case, in that frame of mind, I can see how it would make one question the institution of the church, or at least the charismatic/pentecostal variety that he or she seems to come from. To answer your question, no, I haven't felt that way and I didn't leave for those reasons. I was often confused by the fact that God seemed to be telling me something totally different than what he told someone else, but it wasn't a deep issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 The parts of a Unitarian Universalist service that I like best are the audience participation sections. Someone gets to light the chalice, and even pick a reading for it if they are compelled. The Candles of Joy and Concern (where you can go up, light a candle, and say a few words about what concerns you, or what has made you happy) are always a highly participated in part of the service, I have learned much about my fellow members, their hopes, their fears, the things they care about, and worry about. Must be why I never liked Christian churches (beyond the religious objections I had to the doctrine), not enough democratic process that all members have a right to have their voices heard during the service (and not just in the off-key hymns). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 The only things congregants at the churches I attended were encouraged to share or offer were money and labor. In retrospect I think this was kind of lame, but it wasn't the reason why I left my churches, or left Xianity. I like gatherings where people participate somehow. It would've been kind of cool to have been at a church where offering a song or a prayer or a story would've been encouraged. I don't think it would've been enough to keep me in the faith, however. I left Xianity because it no longer made sense. I remain out of it because I can see no compelling reason why I should return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 The part that talks about everyone is to bring something.....a hymn, a teaching, a prophecy, etc.....One of the things that most irritates me is not being allowed to contribute on this level. Level? Is there some heirarchy or pecking order for contributing? Do you feel the volunteering ushers are somehow "lower" in giving quality than the person who offers up a hymn every week? Why might you have that impression? Is it part of the attitude of other church members? Isn't there something a little "off" about that? My questions are: Were you allowed to participate in this manner? It was open to everyone. Was there any frustration in this regard? Only for the problems in attitude I pointed out above. Seemed to engender a lack of humility in regular contributors that I could see was not in line with supposedly christian values. The lady who was singing every week was gossipy, petty, and clique-ish. And she wasn't the only one like that. Seemed hypocritical. Did it play a part in leaving Christianity? Only in the sense that I questioned what I saw as a hypocrisy between word and deed, which led me to carefully reading the bible trying to figure out why they seemed to feel justified acting this way. It was flaws in the bible itself though that made me recognize a supreme being could not possibly have had a hand in it's writing. And that actually led me away from the religion. Perhaps if I'd just accepted their little status quo (such as it was) I may never have started asking questions, and I never would have actually read the book for myself. But it really does not follow. People go to the bible all the time when they have questions, but they don't all find fault and leave the religion. So no, the behaviors and practices of the people at church did not lead me to fall away. It was the absence of Truth that did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 What if the usher is not an usher in his heart. Most of what I have observed is a few men defining the trip for many. Isn't this site kind of aimed at individual paths. Does that verse suggest individual paths coming together? It particularly bothers me and was just interested if it played a part in people exiting Christianity. I am not very intelligent and have problems with the week to week to week to week to week.......message. Do I need to be more humble or is something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 What if the usher is not an usher in his heart. Most of what I have observed is a few men defining the trip for many. Isn't this site kind of aimed at individual paths. Does that verse suggest individual paths coming together? It particularly bothers me and was just interested if it played a part in people exiting Christianity. I am not very intelligent and have problems with the week to week to week to week to week.......message. Do I need to be more humble or is something wrong. The problem is not with YOU end3. Just because the majority of people in your church accept hypocrisy and excessive pride in contributors, does not make them right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 My participation in church amounted to "much snoring", which did not go over well with those sitting near me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South2003 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 The pastor was a king pin! That and many other nonsense of christianity including all the other man made godsssssssssss. 1) History 2) History 3) and more history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Funny, pretty much all the churches I've been to encouraged and "allowed" contribution from everyone in it. Would make no sense for them not to let people help. If you are curious about why we left, you may want to read the Testimonies. People left for various reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.B. Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Robborob said: "not enough democratic process..." At least one other person mentioned their church being open to such contributions from the rank-and-file members. That's alien to me; in the church where I work, you have to be INVITED to do any damned thing in the services, whether it be singing a solo, ushering, or whatever. Even those who volunteer have to wait to be told that it's ok to, for example, go see the usher-coodinating dude. That's right; you have to have the permission of the leadership to even go ask the department's coordinator. And if by chance a person went directly to the coordinator? The coordinator would casually (casually, my fat ass) "mention" to the pastor that so-and-so wanted to "ush". The pastor then would make the decision as to whether or not that person should be encouraged to seek involvement. Damn, thanks, dude, for posting that question. Just made me realize all over again how fucked-up this little world I have to exist in really is. Fuck... what a cult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I think that is one of the larger problems. I am not ready to change my belief, but I am tired of not moving. Thanks, I think that was it exactly L.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 If more people were heard, maybe there wouldn't have to be so may testimonies written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South2003 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 If more people were heard, maybe there wouldn't have to be so may testimonies written. Dude, we are a never will be the only unbelievers. Know why? Because a myth will never ever ever become FACT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 If more people were heard, maybe there wouldn't have to be so may testimonies written. The only way you can come away with this idea end3 is to ignore all of us who said that wasn't the reason we left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Yeah... That made no contribution whatsoever to my leaving xianity. I consider my reasons to be far more compelling: it was a harmful doctrine that wasn't consistent or plausible--it didn't stand up to reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 If more people were heard, maybe there wouldn't have to be so may testimonies written. What exactly do you mean by this? I'm assuming from what I've seen in this thread that you're part of a large congregation and find yourself lost in the crowd? If it's of any help, I think the things you saw the Apostle Paul saying about everyone bringing a hymn, a testimony, etc is speaking to small churches. I was a part of small church originally and it was much more a community thing like that. Then when I moved to a big city and became part of a large congregation, something was really lost by that alone. It's actually one of the things that I still miss to this day, that really small church family thing - of course I could never go back to that knowing what I know now about the religion. I couldn't feel part of something like that now because I would see through the entire delusion they hold to in common. Oh well, there's always here! We'll let you participate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 So your reasoning is people are saying: Uhm.. If I can't participate in church then screw religion! If I can't preach or run functions and.. and.. uhm stuff, I will just remove my entire belief structure, abolish all muh faith, take my marbles an go home.. (sniffle). Sounds really stupid when you take away the *fluff* from the argument... Doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 If more people were heard, maybe there wouldn't have to be so may testimonies written. Then change churches. Go to one that listens to you. Start your own church. Can't you see that this is the very reason that fractures exist? It can be over something substantial like almighty doctrine or something insignificant like people aren't being involved at some level. So a split happens. Home churches are popular for these reasons. But stop to think about it. You look at the church and start to point fingers. Start at some person and start pointing. Then up to the next person and up and up and up. Keep pointing. Suddenly you've stopped. Why? You hit the top, right? The leadership of the church is corrupt. The tip-top. The pastor must be bad. Oh, he might be a "good guy" but look at what he allows to go on in his parish. Shameful. He should really take better care of business. But you stopped short. There's another person above him isn't there? According to the Apostle Paul there most certainly is. The head of the church is none other than Christ. He's the chief. Why didn't your finger point there? Why doesn't he bear some of this burden? So answer your own question. Why aren't more people heard? Why isn't the true head of the church listening and answering? mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.B. Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Yeah... good point, there, mwc. When the fuck am I going to get my appointment with the jackass behind the curtain? You know, the big rich powerful dude that runs the whole show. I've been waiting to have a fucking word or two with him for a loooong time. Seems all I ever did was request and request and pray and pray... not a fucking word in return. Yeah, dude from the OP. Save all the whining about how fucked-up the churches are for the one who supposedly made it all possible... or should I say the three-in-one? All-together-now? We-Be-Three? 1=3? What the fuck do we call him/it/them anyway? God Jehovah YHWH Yahweh Jesus Yeshua Yahushua Adonai ****** (for those who think it's too holy or some shit) ...and on and on. Seriously, the game wouldn't suck if the Quality Control at HQ was any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 L.B. and I agreed that there was a problem with the system in our two churches, and then he turned right around and blamed it on the Christian cult. I would say alot of testimonies are being written, regardless. "Delusion in common" Antlerman??????????? MWC, from my point of sight, I think He already listened and responded. WR, Shackled, This is just one example specific to me, but by no means defining all, sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 For what it's worth, I deconverted from lukewarm German mainstream protestantism without any criticism on my part. I had just found a new faith that really touched me. My progressively harsh criticism only started after I got into examining christianity from a neutral observer's point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 My participation in church amounted to "much snoring", which did not go over well with those sitting near me... I Farted for Jesus in church once during the worship service, and the people sitting behind me moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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