Salvation A Free Gift?

[lemon]

Also, does anyone know of a clear scriptural reference which states salvation is a free gift? I ask because I never got that impression from the bible.

[Ouroboros]

Raven, your entire post was an excellent summary of this so-called "free gift". Took me a long time to comprehend that the church wanted my money but they sure weren't going to return any of it if I were to lose my job or get sick or something like that. Hell, the most they were going to do is pray for me or possibly visit me in the hospital while I go broke and probably lose my house. I want my money back! Give me the cold hard cash!

Aaaah! Christianity is basically an insurance scam! You pay and pay, but when it counts there's nothing there, nothing left. All money gone, and no God or Heaven to save you.

[Robbobrob]

Salvation is free in the sense that it costs us nothing unlike the Lord Jesus who shed His blood to acquire His church. Salvation is free but it is not automatic as many people believe. An individual has to do the things required for salvation. There are 12 elements of salvation - Grace of God, Blood of Christ, Gospel, Preaching, Faith (with obedience), Change of Mind (or repentance), Confession of Jesus, Baptism into Christ, Holy Spirit, Church of Christ, Good Works, Faith, Obedience and Hope until Death. Our part are the 6 - faith, repentance, confession of Jesus, baptism into Christ, good works, and faith, obedience and hope until the end or death. These are all in the Holy Bible. Good works are enumerated. If we lack any of these elements, we would not be saved.

What cost did the God Jesus pay? He is an eternal being, got himself trapped in a flesh-covered costume for a few years, then went back to his day job of being free and eternal? Where is the sacrifice in that?

 

If you are required to do things to get your free gift, it is not free or a gift. I don't work for gifts. I work for rewards and payment.

 

Honestly in advertising: "Free Gift" in God's words means "Servitude and Suffering in the Hope You Are Choosen to Go to Heaven"

[Ouroboros]

Salvation is free in the sense that it costs us nothing unlike the Lord Jesus who shed His blood to acquire His church. Salvation is free but it is not automatic as many people believe. An individual has to do the things required for salvation. There are 12 elements of salvation - Grace of God, Blood of Christ, Gospel, Preaching, Faith (with obedience), Change of Mind (or repentance), Confession of Jesus, Baptism into Christ, Holy Spirit, Church of Christ, Good Works, Faith, Obedience and Hope until Death. Our part are the 6 - faith, repentance, confession of Jesus, baptism into Christ, good works, and faith, obedience and hope until the end or death. These are all in the Holy Bible. Good works are enumerated. If we lack any of these elements, we would not be saved.

What cost did the God Jesus pay? He is an eternal being, got himself trapped in a flesh-covered costume for a few years, then went back to his day job of being free and eternal? Where is the sacrifice in that?

 

If you are required to do things to get your free gift, it is not free or a gift. I don't work for gifts. I work for rewards and payment.

Isn't it funny that the poster first say: "Salvation is free in the sense that it costs us nothing", the in the later sentence "An individual has to do the things required for salvation." Which mean, it is NOT free. It's not just like going to the story and ask for it, and then take him home and do whatever you want with it and never pay one dime for it, and never had to work for it. This show the fundamental problem with Christianity... the followers can't even see their own contradictions. I wonder what part of "free" is it that she doesn't understand?

[Legion]

Aaaah! Christianity is basically an insurance scam!

I recently encountered a pastor who suplemented his income by selling insurance. I thought the parallels were striking and frankly I was disgusted with the man. This man lives off the fears of others.

 

But a little more on topic... Christians speak of God's unconditional love and in the same breath say IF you believe THEN you will not perish. So they say "unconditional" at the same moment that they present you with an "if... then..." conditional statement.

[white_raven23]

Salvation is free in the sense that it costs us nothing unlike the Lord Jesus who shed His blood to acquire His church.

 

No honey....stop word-spinning for a second. The word free means FREE. Not "free to us, not to him".

Salvation is free but it is not automatic as many people believe.

So...it is free, but the salvation machine isn't activated until the following requirements are met....

An individual has to do the things required for salvation. There are 12 elements of salvation - Grace of God, Blood of Christ, Gospel, Preaching, Faith (with obedience), Change of Mind (or repentance), Confession of Jesus, Baptism into Christ, Holy Spirit, Church of Christ, Good Works, Faith, Obedience and Hope until Death. Our part are the 6 - faith, repentance, confession of Jesus, baptism into Christ, good works, and faith, obedience and hope until the end or death.

 

So have to do all that to activate our salvation. If it were a product, like creme bleach, NO ONE WOULD BUY IT. Creme bleach has 3 steps.....mix activator powder into creme.....put creme on hair you want bleached.....remove creme after set period of time.

 

Your product has us measuring out the proper portions of the makeup of the activator powder with not so precise calculations depending on the amount of product to be used at one time, also dependant on ambient room temperature, and all must be done at a specific phase of the moon, or none of it will work....and by the way....there are 17 different sets of instructions included in the box that indicate completely different amount proportions to each other, 3 sets say the procedure must be done during new moon, 7 say half moon, 2 indicate somewhere between half and waning (uncertain), and the rest imply full moon.

 

 

No one would buy your creme bleach.

 

These are all in the Holy Bible. Good works are enumerated. If we lack any of these elements, we would not be saved.

 

As other's have pointed out.....you completely contradict yourself in your post. You start with salvation is free.....and end with salvation is not free.

 

Any yet....you never noticed this contradiction even when you were writing it. You are either a deliberate spoofer....or a deeply brainwashed person.

 

If the latter, I hope you realize though your cage be gilded, it's still a cage. But you will have to figure it out for yourself, as I cannot expect anything I tell you to make an impression at all.

[Legion]

As other's have pointed out.....you completely contradict yourself in your post. You start with salvation is free.....and end with salvation is not free.

 

Any yet....you never noticed this contradiction even when you were writing it. You are either a deliberate spoofer....or a deeply brainwashed person.

 

If the latter, I hope you realize though your cage be gilded, it's still a cage. But you will have to figure it out for yourself, as I cannot expect anything I tell you to make an impression at all.

Most excellent White Raven.

[RIPw4]

One of my favorite quotes

"Better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt" - Lincoln

 

sometimes people should just remain quiet.

[GraphicsGuy]

1. Grace of God

2. Blood of Christ

3. Change of Mind (or repentance)

4. Baptism into Christ

5. Holy Spirit

6. Church of Christ

7. Good Works

8. Hope until Death

9. Good works are enumerated.

10. If we lack any of these elements, we would not be saved.

 

1. If God is so gracious why not just forgive and forget? What's with needing the sacrifice?

 

2. How does a spiritual being get appeasement out of physical blood?

 

3. What if someone has a mental illness and CAN'T change their mind? What if someone gets a head injury and has a severe personality change and the new personality is an athiest? What about someone with MPD?

 

4. How does water cleanse your soul? It's symbolic, how can it do anything to affect your salvation?

 

5. How come so many ex-Christians can still speak in tongues even after denying the Holy Spirit?

 

6. ??? What?

 

7. Ahhh...so it's not free. You gotta work your ass off for it.

 

8. Hope of what? That you won't actually die? That you'll be magically raptured away?

 

9. So what's our quota to fill?

 

10. So if we get 5 right and fuck up the last one we're still screwed? Sounds like conditional love and the burden of work to me. Doesn't sound free at all.

[Brother Jeff]

1. Grace of God

2. Blood of Christ

3. Change of Mind (or repentance)

4. Baptism into Christ

5. Holy Spirit

6. Church of Christ

7. Good Works

8. Hope until Death

9. Good works are enumerated.

10. If we lack any of these elements, we would not be saved.

 

1. If God is so gracious why not just forgive and forget? What's with needing the sacrifice?

 

2. How does a spiritual being get appeasement out of physical blood?

 

3. What if someone has a mental illness and CAN'T change their mind? What if someone gets a head injury and has a severe personality change and the new personality is an athiest? What about someone with MPD?

 

4. How does water cleanse your soul? It's symbolic, how can it do anything to affect your salvation?

 

5. How come so many ex-Christians can still speak in tongues even after denying the Holy Spirit?

 

6. ??? What?

 

7. Ahhh...so it's not free. You gotta work your ass off for it.

 

8. Hope of what? That you won't actually die? That you'll be magically raptured away?

 

9. So what's our quota to fill?

 

10. So if we get 5 right and fuck up the last one we're still screwed? Sounds like conditional love and the burden of work to me. Doesn't sound free at all.

 

1. Because He can't! You are forgetting the holiness of GOD! He's so fucking holy that he has to murder everyone who pisses Him off! Glory!

 

2. His Blood is MAGIC! Glory!

 

3. Theys has got EBUL SPOOKS! The Word sez that the DEBUL causes mentul ilnis!

 

4. Water washes shit. It washes the spiritual shit off of you! Glory!

 

5. Tongues is of the DEBUL! It iz EBUL SPOOKS talkin' out of yu!

 

6. WTF??

 

7. Yes! Glory!

 

8. Kryasst defeated the DEBUL and DETH! When He Croaked in the Spook on the big giant stick and Magically Undeadened Himself, He proved that He was the Magical Being and He kicked the Talking Snake's ass! Glory!

 

9. You've got to do good shit, or Kryasst will be pissed off!

 

10. It is free! It's easy to turn your brain off and just blindly believe the bullshit! Hall-lay-LOOH-Yah!!

[BlueGiant]

Sounds like you are bound to law.

 

Oh, and your legalistic ass is going to hell, since you're clearly not saved (after all, no one is).

 

Too bad, I was hoping an actual christian would show up.

[Deva]

Too bad, I was hoping an actual christian would show up.

 

Yeah, well, maybe a real one will still show up that can explain this "free gift." How its free and how its a gift. I'm still waiting.

 

When I see those two words "free gift" in relation to xian salvation, I feel I am going to have a mental breakdown

[Jubilant]

I wonder what part of "free" is it that she doesn't understand?

 

Apparently, the entire word.

 

White Raven...you go ahead on with your bad self. Brilliance, sheer brilliance I tell you.

[mwc]

Salvation is free in the sense that it costs us nothing unlike the Lord Jesus who shed His blood to acquire His church.

Oh boy. Sign me up. Nothing like a good old fashioned human sacrifice to get me excited about a project.

 

Unless your position is that "god" has blood then it was fully human blood that was spilled making this a human sacrifice. He may not have gotten his blood back but he got his "life" back...and pretty quickly too (less than 3 days). Additionally, the position is that the human body died but not his "soul" (that went to "hell" where it preached and loosed righteous "souls" according to tradition). Then he got a new "resurrected" body at the end of the "3" days. At no point was the "soul" or "spirit" or "god" aspect of him actually dead or even unconscious based on the full tradition.

 

So his "life" or "existence" was not even interrupted over the course of those 3 days. He suffered a human amount of pain (that literally 1000's of other humans endured), "transitioned" to the "spirit" realm (his "native" realm), continued his ministry in "hell" (but was untouchable by the forces of "evil" being "god"), "transitioned" back to our realm where he acquired a "resurrected" body, he did some "things" (how many and how long is debatable) and "ascended" to the heavens.

 

That doesn't sound too bad overall. I could stand to do without the few hours of beatings and the whole cross experience but otherwise it's not too bad. We also assume he didn't magically pump out endorphins to kill the pain but since the bible doesn't say he experienced every bit of pain and that he simply endured the treatment...for all we know he was riding "high" up on that cross.

 

Salvation is free but it is not automatic as many people believe. An individual has to do the things required for salvation.

You're right. Salvation is only for the "elect." The chosen of "god" before he laid the foundation of the earth.

 

There are 12 elements of salvation -

1) Grace of God,

2) Blood of Christ,

3) Gospel, Preaching,

4) Faith (with obedience),

5) Change of Mind (or repentance),

6) Confession of Jesus,

7) Baptism into Christ,

8) Holy Spirit,

9) Church of Christ,

10) Good Works,

11) Faith,

12) Obedience and Hope until Death.

12? How'd you come up with 12? I numbered them for easy reference.

 

I like 4 and 11. So I guess 11 is Faith without obedience?

 

Then you have 12 which is Obedience without Faith? But you have to hope until you die. Is that hope to obey? I imagine that you'll hope that you never joined this nutty cult because you're obeying the church and it's rules waiting for some free gift that isn't free.

 

mwc

[Ouroboros]

What about a person with IQ less than 80? Will they understand the 12 keys/elements to salvation? If not, will they go to Hell for being stupid? That's benevolence for ya'! I thought the Gospel was supposed to be simple, but now we get to know there's 12 things we have to understand. Gosh, do we have to get a PhD in Theology to get saved?

[SWIM]

If we have faith like a grain of mustard, we would not be troubled with what we experience and see regarding other people or religion.

 

 

Oh wait, do you mean this: "It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than *all* the seeds that be in the earth:"

From MARK 4.31?

 

 

Tropical, epiphytic orchids, actually, have the smallest seeds on the earth...

 

Also, how many mountains have you commanded to move, and actually moved? Look it up translator.

 

 

[Grandpa Harley]

Salvation is free in the sense that it costs us nothing unlike the Lord Jesus who shed His blood to acquire His church. Salvation is free but it is not automatic as many people believe. An individual has to do the things required for salvation. There are 12 elements of salvation - Grace of God, Blood of Christ, Gospel, Preaching, Faith (with obedience), Change of Mind (or repentance), Confession of Jesus, Baptism into Christ, Holy Spirit, Church of Christ, Good Works, Faith, Obedience and Hope until Death. Our part are the 6 - faith, repentance, confession of Jesus, baptism into Christ, good works, and faith, obedience and hope until the end or death. These are all in the Holy Bible. Good works are enumerated. If we lack any of these elements, we would not be saved.

I repeat, "Who was Jesus being sacrificed to and why?"

[GraphicsGuy]

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[/Disclaimer]

[Mythra]

Also, does anyone know of a clear scriptural reference which states salvation is a free gift? I ask because I never got that impression from the bible.

 

Well, let's see..

 

We have this - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast.

(Ephesians 2:8-9)

 

And, with the biblical contradiction of the day -

 

We have this - In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:33)

[South2003]

I thought the Gospel was supposed to be simple, but now we get to know there's 12 things we have to understand. Gosh, do we have to get a PhD in Theology to get saved?

 

NOOOO This is the best line I've heard all day!!!

[South2003]

We should not rely on what "other people" say

 

Wait a minute, did god penned the holey bib herself? Or, is it hearsay? No wait, a few old grumpy RC men voted on it and so here is what you "other people" have to say.

 

Hey, thanks for tip .

 

Wonderful therapy this is!

[South2003]

"It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than *all* the seeds that be in the earth:"

 

You see, faith should have been like a fig tree but jesus cursed it.

[Ouroboros]

"It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than *all* the seeds that be in the earth:"

 

You see, faith should have been like a fig tree but jesus cursed it.

This is also one of the false facts in the Bible. The mustard seed isn't the smallest in the world. For instance, like the seed for sequoia trees (IIRC), and orchids.

[South2003]

Also, how many mountains have you commanded to move, and actually moved? Look it up translator.

 

Quiz:

 

How many bottles of drano will it take for a christian to drop dead?

 

Can someone say ANACONDA!

[Antlerman]

Salvation is free in the sense that it costs us nothing unlike the Lord Jesus who shed His blood to acquire His church. Salvation is free but it is not automatic as many people believe. An individual has to do the things required for salvation. There are 12 elements of salvation - Grace of God, Blood of Christ, Gospel, Preaching, Faith (with obedience), Change of Mind (or repentance), Confession of Jesus, Baptism into Christ, Holy Spirit, Church of Christ, Good Works, Faith, Obedience and Hope until Death. Our part are the 6 - faith, repentance, confession of Jesus, baptism into Christ, good works, and faith, obedience and hope until the end or death. These are all in the Holy Bible. Good works are enumerated. If we lack any of these elements, we would not be saved.

What a wonderful contradition. It's free because it doesn't cost us as much as Jesus paid. Well... I have some FREE stero equipment that I bought five years. I paid 2000 dollars for it, and I will give it to you for free for only 1600 dollars! Yes you heard right folks, it's FREE for only 1600 bucks! FREE! $1600 dollars. FREE!

 

FREE! for $1600 FREE! for $1600