♦ nivek ♦ Posted October 19, 2007 Posted October 19, 2007 A turning point in the global warming debate?Heartland Institute by Joseph L. Bast "August 2007 may go down in the history of science as the month when scientific research made a decisive turn away from dubious warnings of climate catastrophes and toward a much different thesis, that the modern warming is moderate and not man-made. First, NASA acknowledged it had accidentally inflated its official record of surface temperatures in the U.S. beginning with the year 2000." (10/18/07) http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=22197
Brother Jeff Posted October 19, 2007 Posted October 19, 2007 I tend to believe that Global Warming is a natural phase that the earth is going through and that mankind isn't contributing much to it, but it's a very real phenomenon for sure. Anyone who asserts otherwise in either Texas or Alaska is likely to get laughed out of either state. Alaska is warming up (thank god), and Texas is hotter than hell in the summer - MUCH hotter than it was just 30 years ago or so when I was growing up, and it rains more and much harder than it used to.
SWIM Posted October 19, 2007 Posted October 19, 2007 You have to be *very* careful of old statistics in GW studies. For instance when they use phrases like "in the last 100 years". What did they even use to record temperature 100 years ago? Chicken entrails? Seriously, they did not even have automobiles in the history of some of the studies out there, (some go back even 500 years), they were still burning witches etc etc, and we are supposed to assume they had a grasp on the fahrenheit system?
Dave Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 A turning point in the global warming debate? More wishful thinking not based on the actual science that has been accepted by the majority of the worlds climatologists.
♦ nivek ♦ Posted October 20, 2007 Author Posted October 20, 2007 A turning point in the global warming debate? More wishful thinking not based on the actual science that has been accepted by the majority of the worlds climatologists. Keep preaching "True Believer", eventually you'll wear me down with your rapier like logic... Until then, your religious preferences are as unproved as any other.. kFL
Dave Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Keep preaching "True Believer" There is a difference between "belief" and understanding. , eventually you'll wear me down with your rapier like logic... I would not waste my time at such a thing.
mwc Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 I'll may as well add my very non-scientific (and dated) two cents... Way back when I took geology and astronomy (but this is mainly geology) I remember a graph based on a number of things that showed a rough temperature of the planet. It was really hot (a long time ago), cooled and then warmed up, cooled, and back and forth ever since. It's fairly predictable (as far as these things go). So we are warming up. We're on that part of the graph. On to astronomy. We took a look over at our friend Venus and noticed a few things. One of those things was its climate. We noticed it had this "green house" thing going on and thought "could that happen here?" A few calculations later showed that maybe it could. The problem is we're not exactly sure where the tipping point is on the scale. Where can we be happy little, but hot, campers and where do we end up on the irreversible path to Venus-land? From what we've seen in the past it looks like we can pump a lot more into the air and be just fine (and by that I mean the planet sans people will be just fine...we won't be able to breath). So we were in the grasp of the "better safe than sorry" crowd. But that led to a lot of cash being thrown about so it's really not about that so much as how can we make a few bucks on this whole thing crowd? Like I said. The planet is, and will continue, to warm up. It's on that part of the curve. It will then go into another ice age. Whether we're along for the ride is another story altogether. mwc
♦ nivek ♦ Posted October 20, 2007 Author Posted October 20, 2007 Keep preaching "True Believer" There is a difference between "belief" and understanding. , eventually you'll wear me down with your rapier like logic... I would not waste my time at such a thing. r o f l...... Our exchanges both public and private have been as such, "Declare victory and... Uhhhmmm, what were we here for?" Yer right Dave, quit wasting your time, life to short, things too sweet to waste running with the Board 'net 'tard. kFL
Evan Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Although I am a firm believer that Global Warming is happening, I am still open to the idea that is just a cycle on earth. I would need some bonafide science along with arguments on both sides to contend with to really decide on that. AT THE VERY LEAST Global warming is doing one good thing... its making people aware that we rape and pillage earth. I'm hoping this phenomenom really changes that
alanh Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Its much ado about nothing, here's a graph showing the old data and the corrected data, from the explanation at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies. Also, we need to realize that saying "its just part of a natural cycle" isn't an explanation. What cycle are you talking about, and what is the mechanism involved?
Asimov Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 Although I am a firm believer that Global Warming is happening, I am still open to the idea that is just a cycle on earth. I would need some bonafide science along with arguments on both sides to contend with to really decide on that. AT THE VERY LEAST Global warming is doing one good thing... its making people aware that we rape and pillage earth. I'm hoping this phenomenom really changes that Every species on Earth, if it isn't checked by other factors such as predation or ecological destabilization, would consume resources the same as we do. It's not a justification, just a statement.
Naughtyhamster Posted October 20, 2007 Posted October 20, 2007 AT THE VERY LEASTGlobal warming is doing one good thing... its making people aware that we rape and pillage earth. I'm hoping this phenomenom really changes that From someone who has just recently seen An Inconvenient Truth I really agree with you. Humanity sure does not want to think of the consequences of making the Earth an inhabitual place. One of my science teachers even told us last week " Imagine your grandchildren and great grandchildren living on a planet where the only living things are rats, weeds, some humans here and there, and cockroaches. What good can come out of our contemporary denial of enviromental decay? Why we are so concerned about what Brittany Spears and Paris Hilton is doing, but we don't even say a word if some scientist is giving us a warning about the future of our planet?!"
Onyx Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 Well, if global warming is real, we might have to adapt since we might can't prevent it but if global warming is a myth, we'd have to be careful that it doesn't come true, not that it will.
alanh Posted October 21, 2007 Posted October 21, 2007 What I find to be useful is to look at the science rather than the politics. Surface temperature measurements and satellite data show the Earth is warming. The Sun's output exhibits its usual variation but there's no long-term trend upward. We are always at some point in a Milankovitch cycle (regarding the movement of the Earth in space,) but we don't see an increase in solar radiation from Earth-orbiting satellites. The 800 lb gorilla in the room is the increasing level of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, if that isn't the cause then what is it? Svensmark's idea that it is due to a reduction in cosmic rays hitting the atmosphere doesn't work because the instrumental record doesn't show this reduction. The fact that the Earth's climate has changed in the past isn't at issue - the question is what is going on now. There seems to be a sort of folk wisdom, no doubt fostered by religion, that we puny humans couldn't possibly affect the climate. That notion was put to rest once and for all after 9/11, when we saw a temperature spike in the US when air traffic was grounded. Aerosols created by jet engines block some of the sun's energy, when they were removed the temperature went up.
Heimdall Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 There is strong evidence that greenhouse gases are not the primary reason for the current warming trend. Many scientists are looking to the sunspot cycle for the answers. Here is a small offering of sites that address this: http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0927/p13s03-sten.htm https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/archives...7/msg00075.html http://www.tilmari.pp.fi/tilmari5.htm http://capnbob.us/blog/?p=610 http://www.worldclimatereport.com/archive/.../v8n15/hot1.htm Just remember, Global Warming, as currently presented, is the religion of the 21st century and just about as valid as the Christ Cult and Al Gore is it's "Billy Graham", using it as his path to wealth and power! Heimdall
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