Candid Opinions Needed

[Aurelia]

I have a christian friend that I have been conversing with off and on via IM lately. The IM client is on my work computer, so I am not always available to chat/respond quickly (work takes precedence). Nonetheless, when I came in today there were already two messages from her asking me questions about my lack of faith. Below is a transcript of that conversation. I am posting it because she asked for opinions from unaffiliated 3rd persons, and I think each of you from Internet Land certainly qualify in that regard.

 

My friend: i hope today is better for u. u no i have never met any1 rhat stated they do not believe in god. has that always beeb the case/ when u r @ ur lowest moment who do u call upond? man will always belittle u at ur lowest low in somw form r fashion it is the human in he/she that pre judges ya

 

My friend: ur im add almost looks like ma had evil god forbid it was 666 vs 216 strange

 

Me: I left my computer on all night at work and when I came in I got your messages, but I don't know what time you sent them???

 

Me: If you are around I'd be happy to answer those questions, but since I don't know when you wrote it I don't know if you're still around. Are you?

 

My friend: yeah hone it is morning [name has been ommited] i only ask those questions cuz i do consider u as a dear friend n i dont want to lose ur friendship so i talk to ya with kitgloves at time cuz i dont want to hurt ya but girl at time you can be really really cold and distant i do not blame it on the meds cuz i no u do not take time timely

 

Me: I wouldn't exactly describe myself as cold and distant, nor would I consider myself one who doesn't use time wisely. You are aware that when I am talking to you, I am at work, right? While a lot of the time I am able to converse via IM near real-time, this week I haven't been able to. I have been extremely busy here, doing what I should be doing, working. There is no reason to assume anything about my attitude or mental capacity simply because I do not respond as quickly as you would like me to.

 

Me: Finally, second of all, you said you don't want to lose my friendship. Why would you lose my friendship unless you yourself either A)walked away from it or B)convinced me utterly that it requires more "maintenance" than I am capable of providing???

 

My friend: THIS IS NOT ABOUT MAINTENANCE AT ALL AND THE COMMENT ABOUT TIMELY WAS ABOUT THE MEDICATION NOT UR RESPONSIVE SO THAT WAS VERY BITHCY RESPONSE. I HAVE NEVER EVER ASSUMED YOUR ATTITUDE OR MENTAL CAPACITY I HAVE ALWAYS ASKED YOU ABOUT THEM DIRECTLY. EVEN ON YESTERDAY I STATED I KNOW YOU DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR THIS IM STUFF SO LET ME KNOW WHEN I SHOULD STOP WRITING YA AND YOU DID AND STOPPED GOT OFF MY CPU COMPLETELY. MY MISTAKE IN THE LAST NOTE WAS WRITING TIME TWICE THAT MADE THE STMT READ WRONG IT WAS IN REF TO THE MEDICATION ONLY!

 

Me: So two questions: 1) Why are you concerned about losing my friendship, and 2) why do you feel you have to put on kitgloves [sic] in order to talk to me without hurting me?

 

My friend: cuz u r u and if i am wrong correct me ur feelings a easily hurt...forgive me if i am wrong. i only do it becuz you r going thru a situtation that is absolutely not among the norm,,,,true or is everybody experiencing and choosing your lifestyle????????????????????????????????

 

Me: You are concerned about losing my friendship because I am me and it's your perception that my feelings are easily hurt?

 

My friend: no i am concern cuz of your tone and demenor sometimes, abrasive judge for urself the last couple of notes i dont want to debate i just truly wanted to know if all is well and if needing to talk to someone could help you have an even better day. hey try this have [name has been ommited] read todays note and get his opinion you are difinately a piece of work and i thank u for all you guys have done for me but your negative or whatever you call it i dont need today i will holler at ya much later. do that have a 3rd person look at them you are absolutely unreal at times abousultely unreal with all that you are going through daily with your decision god may be the answer for you just maybe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!later

 

Me: Very good. I'll have a 3rd person take a look at this and give me their candid opinion. Hope you have a great day too!

 

Moments later her IM availabliity changed to "stepped out" followed by "logged off".

 

BTW, the comment about the 666 versus 216 is because 216 is part of my IM screen name. I have not yet pointed out to her what 6x6x6 equals.

 

~ Aurelia ~

[Deva]

Jeez Aurelia, what kind of language does your friend speak? I could barely understand a word of it. Better to sever any future contact with someone so rude and poorly spoken. I would say it was not worth my time.

[mwc]

Gah! How do people read that "IM" gibberish? It makes my head hurt.

 

I'm not even sure what this conversation is supposed to be about. Your "friend" calls you "bitchy" but I can't see any indication of that. Compared to their very (very, very) laid back way of "communicating" (I use that term loosely) you might seem uptight, distant or "cold" but I would have to commend you on not dumbing yourself down to their level to appear otherwise.

 

Maybe someone could tell me what the problem(s) are that I am supposed to be seeing because I'm just not getting it on my own it appears.

 

mwc

[SWIM]

Do you actually *know* this person in real life? They write like they are ten years old. I doubt you could explain *anything* to someone with so poor a grasp on the english language... Whatever you write, no matter how much sense it makes, the language barrier might be enough to cause them to not understand anyway...

 

Take off the *kitgloves???* gimmie a break...

[pitchu]

Opinion only:

 

From the few exchanges here, this person's composition is impenetrable; attempts at editing, clarifying are nil; but fierce hostility comes through even his/her exceptional barriers to communication.

[♦ nivek ♦]

That is three and a half minutes of my fuckin' life I'll never have back..

 

Suggest you find somethng else to be a 'burr under the saddle' with, anything but that <33t-spreeching, umm, corespondent..

 

kFL

[pandora]

Ugh, that was painful. She communicates in the same style as those Nigerian scam people. I would not tell her anyone said that, though. LOL But I am curious, how did you meet his person, in what context?

 

And to answer her questions... when I am at my lowest low, I turn to those people that I know love me, my animals, and nature. I take time to be introspective and figure out what has gotten me in such a funk so I can find a way out of it. Those who love me don't belittle me or judge me when I'm at my lowest low, even if it is my own fault. You can tell her I'm sorry she doesn't have anyone in her life that she can turn to like that. You can also tell her this is from a person that has been through plenty of shit in life.

 

When I was a Christian, I did the same thing. Except of course, God was the first person/thing I turned to. But unlike then, when I believed my life would be a fairytale once I died, now I am motivated to change things because I realize I am the only one with the power to do that. All my crying out to God and begging for something to change or go right in my life didn't do anything, even when I was doing the right things. I was sincere. God wasn't, apparently... but I didn't leave religion because of my feelings, I left for other reasons. If she really want to know, I'll tell her... but hopefully she'll just leave you alone now.

[Mongo]

You are direct and ask questions. She is indirect and doesn't clarify.

If you tell her I observed this, she'll probably not comprehend the significance. You are clearly the better communicator.

 

I don't find that you are "warm" with her but rather neutral (I see that you are at work). Your friend on the other hand is skittish at best and quickly turns outright hostile with clearly insufficient basis.

 

There are hints of testyness on your side too but your "friend" is far more easily set off into the stratosphere. Her reactions are clearly disproportional to any slight she perceives.

 

Your friend clearly sees herself as innocent. She has no comprehension of her own rudeness. E.g. the all caps (shouting) is uncalled for and she clearly knew she was doing it because it is not all one or all the other. She thinks it is appropriate.

 

Looks like this friend'ship' has hit a reef and is taking on water.

 

Mongo

[SWIM]

You are direct and ask questions. She is indirect and doesn't clarify.

If you tell her I observed this, she'll probably not comprehend the significance. You are clearly the better communicator.

 

I don't find that you are "warm" with her but rather neutral (I see that you are at work). Your friend on the other hand is skittish at best and quickly turns outright hostile with clearly insufficient basis.

 

There are hints of testyness on your side too but your "friend" is far more easily set off into the stratosphere. Her reactions are clearly disproportional to any slight she perceives.

 

Your friend clearly sees herself as innocent. She has no comprehension of her own rudeness. E.g. the all caps (shouting) is uncalled for and she clearly knew she was doing it because it is not all one or all the other. She thinks it is appropriate.

 

Looks like this friend'ship' has hit a reef and is taking on water.

 

Mongo

 

Mongo, remember that thread where you asked if fundies have poor english? I responded that due to countless emails I have processed in the internet biz, that most were likely children?

 

I would bet you 1000.00 that the author of the gibberish part of the conversation is not even a teen yet.

 

[Aurelia]

I met this person about a year ago at my old apartment - she was my next door neighbor... For various reasons I avoided her for the first few months, and then I finally started to open up and be a friend to her... Then we'd hang out almost every night outside our apartments and drink and chat..... Until her standing with the management deteriorated and she was forced to quickly move out. At this point I was relieved, because friendship with her was extremely high maintenance and very stressful, and I was finally able to focus on some other things in my life besides her. Well, one day she called me on the phone and invited me to her new place and I have been talking with her semi-regularly since then.

 

She knows I've done the whole "church thing", but has no idea the extent of it. She has no idea I used to be a "saved, sanctified, holy ghost filled, water baptized, jesus on my mind, I've found a new life" type of christian too. I consider the details of my faith (or lack thereof) to be a private matter, and have never completely opened up about it. Frankly, it's none of her damn business. Yet still she feels compelled to bring it up at any available opportunity, *especially* during those difficult times in life.

 

Which brings me to our latest dialog. For some reason she has been hurling insults and accusations at me, and I can only guess it is because of her latest "woes" (about which she told me yesterday). She seems to be one of those people who cannot accept empathy from anyone else without getting angry at the person trying to sympathize with her! she has told me over and over how she doesn't have any other friends in the world, that I am her only friend (even her family will have nothing to do with her).

 

This is becoming very, very stressful for me. And I'm getting tired of it. I'm not sure what to do, but I do know that I can't handle much more of her nonsense -- My breaking point is rapidly approaching!

 

Thanks all for your feedback and letting me vent. You folks are awesome!

 

~ Aurelia ~

[SWIM]

I met this person about a year ago er nonsense -- My breaking point is rapidly approaching!

 

Thanks all for your feedback and letting me vent. You folks are awesome!

 

~ Aurelia ~

 

I gotta ask... How old is she?

[PandaPirate]

I can't read things that aren't in English.

[pandora]

Borderline personality disorder?

[Robbobrob]

The one thing I got out of the exchange....your friend projects her eggshell ego (as in "You have to walk on eggshells around her) onto you. I saw nothing hostile or overly angry in your posts, but hers is very hostile. I can understand why you considered her high maintainence. The way she jumped all over you when you made a mistake in translating her awful writing. I would go mad having to try to decipher that typing on a regular basis....even if she was the sweetest, nicest girl ever. Which she is not, if the IM's are anything to go by.

 

u no i have never met any1 rhat stated they do not believe in god. has that always beeb the case/ when u r @ ur lowest moment who do u call upond? man will always belittle u at ur lowest low in somw form r fashion it is the human in he/she that pre judges ya

 

Back in the 60s Nixon beat McGovern in a landslide victory. One Democrat remarked, "I can't beleive Nixon won. Everyone I know voted for McGovern." When people stick to small circles, they rarely get a diverse population. If she expanded her group, maybe she'd find someone who would give her a hug when she is down....unless she has always abused that kindness, hence why people shy away from her.

 

Why does she prejudge EVERYONE as being jerks? That puts her into a hole relationship-wise that must be tough to get out of.

 

She should ask herself....if all the people I know are jerks AND believe in God, maybe it is time to find some people who do not believe in God, and maybe they will be nicer.

[Ouroboros]

I gotta ask... How old is she?

 

If non-religious, probably 9.

 

If religious around 29 or above.

[PandaPirate]

What a fuckin bitch. SHE has the problem. Not you.

[mwc]

She knows I've done the whole "church thing", but has no idea the extent of it. She has no idea I used to be a "saved, sanctified, holy ghost filled, water baptized, jesus on my mind, I've found a new life" type of christian too. I consider the details of my faith (or lack thereof) to be a private matter, and have never completely opened up about it. Frankly, it's none of her damn business. Yet still she feels compelled to bring it up at any available opportunity, *especially* during those difficult times in life.

Then do this. "Look. I used to be a 'saved, sanctified, holy ghost filled, water baptized, jesus on my mind, I've found a new life' type of christian too. But that's not who am I anymore and I'm not looking to build a friendship around any of that stuff. If that's what you're looking for, great, but you're looking at the wrong person to do it with. I never said any of this before because I really consider it a private matter but since you just never seem to let it go I felt I needed to tell you how things are once and for all."

 

Of course you'd put it all into your own words but just get it all off your chest and confront her with all this. Don't debate or discuss it. Just tell her that this is how it was then and this is how it is now. You won't be changing. Period.

 

Which brings me to our latest dialog. For some reason she has been hurling insults and accusations at me, and I can only guess it is because of her latest "woes" (about which she told me yesterday). She seems to be one of those people who cannot accept empathy from anyone else without getting angry at the person trying to sympathize with her! she has told me over and over how she doesn't have any other friends in the world, that I am her only friend (even her family will have nothing to do with her).

And this seems to be the problem. You've seemed to have assumed some level of responsibility for her. Pity perhaps? I know it is sad when someone doesn't seem to have anyone else, like a stray animal, but sometimes there are reasons for that and it's not because others are cruel to them but something is "wrong" with that person (and it seems this one wants others to take responsibility for the way she "feels"). You mostly will feel like you are in the wrong if you do what is right and strengthen your boundaries with this person. You might lose your "friend" by basically telling her to start acting like a friend. But it's better than having her use you as her emotional dumping ground.

 

This is becoming very, very stressful for me. And I'm getting tired of it. I'm not sure what to do, but I do know that I can't handle much more of her nonsense -- My breaking point is rapidly approaching!

Good friends sway, even bend a bit, but never break. You need to take care of yourself and that means doing whatever it takes to keep from "breaking."

 

mwc

[PandaPirate]

This person is not your friend. I'm sorry but friends don't act that way. If a friend talked to me like that...well...I'd just hang up on them. Esp. with those kind of grammar skills. (or lack thereof)

[PandaPirate]

This is what a coversation between friends is like. About the 20th line down or so...I tell her I deconverted....

 

ME: (10/19/2007 11:23:25 AM): so what are you going to see this weekend? I'm going to see Things we lost in the fire, 30 days of Night, Gone baby Gone and Michael Clayton. All in one day.

Furr (10/19/2007 11:23:46 AM): 30 Days

ME (10/19/2007 11:24:15 AM): I think i'll see it first....if I see it last...I won't be able to sleep

Furr (10/19/2007 11:38:53 AM): Foe sho

Furr (10/19/2007 11:39:03 AM): Looks pretty scary

ME (10/19/2007 11:39:18 AM): yes, it looks VERY f**in scary

Furr (10/19/2007 11:39:31 AM): I'll see the other two too

Furr (10/19/2007 11:39:35 AM): tutu

ME (10/19/2007 11:39:38 AM): but I once saw a dogs head freshly chopped off so...i can take it

Furr (10/19/2007 11:39:46 AM): ewwwwwwwwwww

Furr (10/19/2007 11:39:54 AM): when was that?

ME(10/19/2007 11:39:55 AM): actually a puppies head

ME(10/19/2007 11:40:16 AM): about six weeks ago. he ran under a train and got his head popped off. poor little guy.

Furr (10/19/2007 11:40:30 AM): awwwwwwwwwww eewwwwwwwwwwww

ME(10/19/2007 11:41:15 AM): total ewwww

ME(10/19/2007 11:45:02 AM): did you see on CNN that we were hit by a bunch of tornados yesterday?

Furr (10/19/2007 11:45:18 AM): nope

ME (10/19/2007 11:45:30 AM): k, well, i'm alive

Furr (10/19/2007 11:47:00 AM): That's good. Was it scary?

ME (10/19/2007 11:47:13 AM): no...exciting

ME(10/19/2007 11:47:22 AM): i like hurricanes and tornadoes

Furr (10/19/2007 11:47:31 AM): reeeeeeeeeeeeally

ME (10/19/2007 11:47:49 AM): i deconverted

Furr (10/19/2007 11:48:10 AM): huh?

ME (10/19/2007 11:48:20 AM): from being christian...

ME(10/19/2007 11:48:24 AM): i deconverted

Furr (10/19/2007 11:48:40 AM): what are you now, and how come?

ME (10/19/2007 11:54:59 AM): Taoist and I'll tell you why in a minute

ME(10/19/2007 11:55:05 AM): they are here to fix my windshield

Furr (10/19/2007 11:55:54 AM): The Taoists are fixing your windsheild? Nice!

ME (10/19/2007 11:56:09 AM): LOL...you're funny

ME (10/19/2007 11:56:17 AM): they are doing it with their minds!

ME (10/19/2007 11:57:12 AM): I was watching the travel channel and they were in Indonesia....these guys lay on beds of nails and break steel bars with their fists!

Furr (10/19/2007 11:58:05 AM): oooooooooooooh

ME (10/19/2007 11:58:12 AM): ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

ME (10/19/2007 11:58:20 AM): k...here's a start as to why

Furr (10/19/2007 11:58:26 AM): k

ME (10/19/2007 11:58:43 AM): http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2003/02...-impossible.php

ME (10/19/2007 11:58:47 AM): I do believe in God

ME (10/19/2007 11:58:53 AM): just not the Christian God

Furr (10/19/2007 12:00:45 PM): I truly understand. I've become quite disenchanted with organized religion as a whole.

Furr (10/19/2007 12:01:39 PM): I'll read your propaganda link later.....

Furr (10/19/2007 12:08:52 PM): Have you read the "Change Your Mind/Change Your Life" book? I read it last month, I believe it's Tao related...

ME (10/19/2007 12:44:03 PM): no but my toilet just overflowed

Furr (10/19/2007 12:44:21 PM): dammiitt

ME (10/19/2007 12:44:33 PM): all over my feet

Furr (10/19/2007 12:44:53 PM): eeeww

ME(10/19/2007 1:53:15 PM): read The Tao of Pooh

[Eric_PK]

If you are raised to be nice and caring towards other people, it's hard to deal with this sort of situation.

 

In this case, I think you have to be selfish and be concerned about yourself first. It sounds to me like you don't have a relationship with your friend - where by "relationship" I means "something that both groups get something out of".

 

If it were me, I would try to be frank with her and tell her that I valued her for her friendship but that she needed to treat me with respect.

 

My guess is that if you do that, she will respond as she has recently, and you'll have your answer.

 

Good luck

[live and learn]

I have to second Pandora's Borderline Personality Disorder theory. Id' suggest checking it out in Wiki so you know what type of person you're up against.

[PandaPirate]

I would just leave her alone. She sounds like bad news.

[R. S. Martin]

I disagree that it is appropriate to psychoanalyze people with wikipedia or pop psych books; that is for the professionals. However, a person who treats me the way that person treats you gets cut out of my life. I used to ask what I am doing wrong. I put up with it for half a century--until a few months shy of my fiftieth birthday. Then I got on these forums and found out that I don't have to put up with this kind of treatment.

 

I am a human being. I deserve to be treated like a human being. You are a human being. You deserve to be treated like a human being. She is treating you like a rag to mop up her barf.

 

I noticed something. I think you said in one of your posts that she is the kind of person who gets mad at the people who try to sympathize with her. I also got the impression that she thinks you are her only friend in the world.

 

1. A person who gets mad at everyone who tries to sympathize and support her is going to lose everyone's support in short order.

 

2. The "You're the only friend I've got" line is a common line used by manipulators. It's a way to make you feel guilty. Don't believe it for a minute. She's probably saying the exact same line to half a dozen other people. How many delinquent spouses say this to their several spouses around the country, i.e. "You're the one and only" etc.?

 

You asked for candid opinions. My candid opinion is to cut her off cold and never look back. Her kind can always find another doorstep to sleep on. Sounds cold, but I'm done being the mat warming the step.

[R. S. Martin]

I'm not sure if this fits here. In a way I think it does. Life has put me in a situation where I get to see a side of life I hadn't seen up till recent months. I don't know what it's like being desperately poor and on the street, but I'm closer than I've ever been and this puts me into contact with a type of population I've never been in contact with before.

 

A few weeks ago I was waiting at the bus stop just a block from the welfare office. Others were waiting there, too. One of these was a man who probably carried all his earthly possessions in the two backpacks piled in the bus shelter. Holding a smoking cigarette out in front of my nose he asked me for change. I told him I need all I've got and when he continued begging I ignored him. He asked me if I was a Mennonite. Talked about how much he respected the Mennonites, how good they were at survival, etc. I'd been sitting on the bench with my back turned to him.

 

For the psychological impact, I got up and faced him. He was a small man. I told him, "I have no respect for people who ask for money in exchange for nothing. If you need money, go to the welfare office." I turned my back and sat down again.

 

He began whining about how willing he was to work for money. Yeah right! And I was in a position to hire him? He kept wheedling about how very little one dollar was, or even just fifty cents. I was thinking: If fifty cents is worth so little why even bother begging for it?

 

He told me about how often he had been robbed this past month. He couldn't remember for sure if it was only once or if it had been twice or maybe more. And his mother had kept his cheque....

 

I had hoped to wait in peace! I had gotten up early to meet with my caseworker and now this! Finally I'd had enough. I told him in a firm and even voice, "Please leave me." He respected that. There was a larger man outside the bus shelter on a cell phone who would probably have called for help had he had behaved inappropriately.

 

The parallel I see between this homeless man's behaviour and your so-called friend's behaviour is the whining, the trumped-up stories of tough luck. Maybe he'd been robbed. Maybe his mother had stolen his cheque. I'm sure these things happen, and that if one is raised by such a parent one probably doesn't know any better.

 

But I saw another side of him. After he gave up begging money off me, he went to chat with the man who had been on the cell phone. He seemed to treat that man as a respectable equal. Me he treated like a person to be exploited. That's what I see your "friend" doing to you.

 

Obviously your friend has computer access from home, so she's probably in a different income bracket from this homeless guy. But sometimes I think poverty is an attitude just as much as it is a financial situation. Your correspondent seems certainly to be under the poverty line when it comes to emotional resources. I hope you find a way to resolve the issue that is best for you in the long run. All the best.

[Japedo]

This is becoming very, very stressful for me. And I'm getting tired of it. I'm not sure what to do, but I do know that I can't handle much more of her nonsense -- My breaking point is rapidly approaching!

 

Thanks all for your feedback and letting me vent. You folks are awesome!

 

~ Aurelia ~

 

 

This will most likely sound crass and cold, but.. Oh well..

 

*IF* this were me, I'd avoid her at all costs. I'd get a new IM Nick name at least temporary or just put her on block so you always appear off line to her. Screen your calls and if you happen to see her out and about, manage a polite nod and smile but keep on walking.. Don't stop to talk and don't prolong eye contact. I don't know the lady from jack but I would avoid getting in to deep with a person who loves to be a victim and pulls shit out of her ass for needs of sympathy. Life is stressful enough without needy clingy people wanting to be the center of someone's universe.

 

I use to have people like this in my younger years but as I grew older and wiser It's best for all involved just to avoid them all together. They are looking out for a one sided 'friendship'. It's all about them, and in truth that's no friendship. It's a give and take. If people add stress and make everything a game of walking on eggshells it's not worth the headaches.. they will never be happy and are apt to just demand more and more til they suck you dry. Good luck!