Christians: Put Up Or Shut Up!

[Checkmate]

I'm tired. I'm tired of all the yapping and yakking, back and forth, he said, she said, bullshit of Evangelical, Liberal and Fundamentalist Christians. I'm tired of all the baseless assertions, suppositions and mind bending rationalizations. I'm tired of arguing against YOUR ridiculous doctrines that don‘t even merit a retarded gopher’s consideration.

 

But most of all, I'm tired of all the lame Christian excuses. You promise "answers" and then proffer up "I don't know." You claim that your God can do anything, but when pressed for a demonstration you retreat behind ridiculous excuses. I'm drowning under an embarrassing Christian tsunami of "I don't know"s and “God‘s ways are not our way”s.

 

So here it is, real simple: PUT UP or fucking SHUT UP!

 

Robert G. Ingersoll, in a more civil tone, once said...

 

“The church wishes us to believe. Let the church, or one of its intellectual saints, perform a miracle, and we will believe. We are told that nature has a superior. Let this superior, for one single instant, control nature, and we will admit the truth of your assertions."

..........

"We have heard talk enough. We have listened to all the drowsy, idealess, vapid sermons that we wish to hear. We have read your Bible and the works of your best minds. We have heard your prayers, your solemn groans and your reverential ‘amens.’ All these amount to less than nothing. We want one fact. We beg at the doors of your churches for just one little fact. We pass our hats along your pews and under your pulpits and implore you for just one fact. We know all about your moldy wonders and your stale miracles. We want a 'this year's fact'. We ask only one. Give us one fact for charity. Your miracles are too ancient. The witnesses have been dead for nearly two thousand years. Their reputation for 'truth and veracity' in the neighborhood where they resided is wholly unknown to us. Give us a new miracle, and substantiate it by witnesses who still have the cheerful habit of living this world. Do not send us to Jericho to hear the winding horns, nor put us in the fire with Shadrach, Meshech and Abednego. Do not compel us to navigate the sea with Captain Jonah, nor dine with Mr. Ezekiel. There is no sort of use in sending us foxhunting with Samson. We have positively lost all interest in that little speech so eloquently delivered by Balaam's inspired donkey. It is worse than useless to show us fishes with money in their mouths, and call our attention to vast multitudes stuffing themselves with five crackers and two sardines. We demand a new miracle, and we demand it now. Let the church furnish at least one, or forever hold her peace.".........."The Gods" 1872

 

I don’t argue or debate religion anymore. The rest of you can do so if you like, but I won’t be joining you. I won’t argue or discuss god/Jesus for the exact same reason I won’t argue or discuss Santa/Frosty the Snowman. Self-evident, puerile tripe needs no intelligent refutation. It’s a pointless and silly endeavor to me. Besides, humoring idiots only serves to encourage them to keep babbling. I prefer to lambaste, lampoon, laugh and walk away.

 

I’m not interested in hearing/reading your mindless “reasons” for wishful thinking (a.k.a. “Belief”). Your childish insistence that “something” must have happened, because you say so and you “believe” it, will fall on deaf ears and I will call you an idiot.

 

Talk is cheap. I don’t want to hear anymore tired excuses for why your God apparently can’t or won’t perform on command today as he did so effortlessly yesterday. What happened? He run out of “Jesus Juice” or something? Used up his quota resurrecting himself and converting Paul? Does God need some Viagra™? Or is God preserving his limited resources for when the time comes to fuck us over during the dreaded Apocalypse? What fucking gives here?!?

 

So here is what you Christians can do to prove to me that I’m wrong (to shut ME up) -- show me something -- an answered prayer, an amputated limb re-grown, a mountain moving, bona fide, honest-to-fucking-God MIRACLE that no one can deny! -- or forever hold your peace, because I'm tired of your incessant delusional buzzing around my ears. 2,000-plus years of this overgrown death cult is more than enough.

 

Put up (provide verifiable evidence) or shut up (keep your retarded “beliefs” to yourself and leave the rest of us alone).

 

That’s the deal. All things considered I think I’m being more than reasonable. You Christians are the ones writing checks your butts can’t cash. After all, “Outrageous claims demand outrageous proofs.”

 

The ball is in your court, you delusional nitwits.

 

~ Checkmate (back by popular demand)

[lemon]

I'm tired. I'm tired of all the yapping and yakking, back and forth, he said, she said, bullshit of Evangelical, Liberal and Fundamentalist Christians. I'm tired of all the baseless assertions, suppositions and mind bending rationalizations. I'm tiredtwits.

 

~ Checkmate (back by popular demand)

 

Some will accuse you of being angry, and maybe you are. However, that is not the point. You are right, christians need to put up or shut up. But or course, there will be some reason why there is nothing to be put up.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Checkmate,

 

Better than a wholesale invitation for *some* miracle, here's one that if done, will cause half or more of ExC to reconsider their lack of christian belief.

 

Christians, pray to your trinity to heal this foot:

 

 

 

 

 

This is a medically stable, long term ago amputation of the toes and metarsals of the right foot performed on one of the ExC regulars. Pictures were taken just minutes after reading Checkmates post, and now placed on.line fresh and hot off the digi-cam presses.

 

Tell the assembled here when you are praying, and what results you are praying for.

 

If indeed your "god" heals this amputee, then I'm sure this Board will be smartly impressed. Results posted digi-cam shots as soon as this miracle of restoration occurs.

 

kevinL

[R. S. Martin]

I suppose I'm the only one who didn't know this juicy bit of history but I've got to post it. It's about David Hume:

 

Well-educated Edinburgh ministers vetoed Hume's candidacy for a philosophy chair in 1745 when he was seen as undermining the grounds of religious belief;

others futilely contemplated excommunicating him in the 1750s from a church he did not attend

. (emphasis mine)

 

How absolutely desperate must Christians be! To live and let live apparently is not good enough for them???

 

Checkmate, I am getting visions of your local Christians setting up an empty chair or pew in their church then excommunicating it in your name. I doubt that you would care and I am thinking it might satisfy their need for revenge. Or maybe they could evangelize it next time the evangelization bug bites them. I'm not sure how to get them to look at things this way...

[R. S. Martin]

How about this approach:

 

You to xian: Do you believe in God?

Xian: Of course!

You: Do you believe in the Trinity?

Xian: Of course!

You: Do you believe that God hears prayer?

Xian: Yes, definitely.

You: Can you explain to me exactly how the Holy Spirit talks to people?

Xian: [detailed explanation]

You: Do you really believe this?

Xian: Yes.

You: Do you believe that when you pray to God to convert a sinner that the Holy Spirit talks to the sinner?

Xian: Yes.

You: Here's the deal. You pray for the Holy Spirit to convert me--just don't ever talk to me about it ever again. If I don't listen to the Holy Spirit, why would I listen to YOU?

 

I used a modified version with my sister. Haven't heard from her since. My life is easier.

[Checkmate]

 

Some will accuse you of being angry, and maybe you are. However, that is not the point. You are right, christians need to put up or shut up. But or course, there will be some reason why there is nothing to be put up.

Uh, "maybe" I'm angry? What was you 451st clue? My copious usage of invectives, or the fact that this is posted in the RANTS section? Sheesh. Fucking newbies.

 

I'm both angry AND I'm right. That's the beauty of being me.

 

 

 

To kevinL: Thanks for pinning this and thanks for the pics. Make sure to direct any Xians to this thread and have them get to work. If those digits regrow due to the power of the Christian God, then I'll be in the front row, center pew again. (The same offer stands for anyone else's God who comes through in the clutch.)

 

 

 

I'll be right here...NOT holding my breath.

 

~ Checkmate

[RedPillAddict]

This needs to be like an internet-wide test...seriously.

"The Christians final chance to prove their God", or something along those lines.

Get Christians world-wide to join together and beg their "God" to grow some toes.

 

"Whatever you ask in my name," Jesus said, "I will do it" (John 14:13)

If this applies to ANY Christian, then I would think that thousands working together should be able to whip something up. Right?

[♦ nivek ♦]

Still waiting. Guess Sunday services prayer session not a viable candidate for answering.

 

kFL

[Vigile]

Glad you're not preachin' anymore Grinch. You do have the gift of laying down a compelling case.

 

I agree. If anything is clear after 3 years on this site, not one damn xian can be reasoned with. They make specious claims and expect us to give these claims weight due to the fact that they are old and so many people have believed them. This fact merely proves that humans are in large part moronic. Xians, put up or shut up.

[white_raven23]

Hey!!

 

I got an e-mail from God!!

 

Seriously!!

 

 

~Dear White_Raven,

Please extend my warmest salutations to your friends at Ex-Christian.net. I see Checkmate wants to see something real, be assured (and pass these assurances along to him) that I fully intend to get right to that miracle he asks for. Been pretty busy with this toothless broad who lives on grilled cheese sandwiches. Tried to send her a sign that she needs to broaden her diet, but she sold it on eBay. Also been tied up with the whole vegetative state, right to life thing. You guys are lucky....the matter is over for you. But now I've got this chick up here, and let me tell ya, healing a spirit that's been trapped in a shell it's lost all control of screaming for release for 15 years....let's just say there are some persistent issues to work out. Oh...and sorry about that whole Hurricane Katrina thing, my bathtub overflowed while I was trying to convince Schiavao she was not, in fact, a purple pineapple.

Anyway...I'd tell you about more current stuff, but I don't want you to get in trouble with "someone" who thinks I appointed him. What is this? The middle ages? Though we were done with all that 'divinely annointed' shit. Anyway, let's just say I'm trying to keep this nut from destroying civilization for the next year. You know this is one dangerous freak, right? He's almost consciously trying to bring about WWIII because he thinks Revelations was a prophesy for the future, when in fact, the author was just on shrooms. I sent Lewis Carroll down there as a hint....but I don't think anyone got it.

 

Anyway...very busy....ask Checkmate what type of miracle he would like, and I'll try to gt back to him ASAP. Gotta go...Schiavao is bobbing for goldfish in the toilet bowl again.

Laters!

God

[Grandpa Harley]

what domain was that from

[L.B.]

(cue Jeopardy theme) waiting...

 

You know, I was about to compare the waiting we will do for this 'god' to the Rip Van Winkle story... you've read it. He fell asleep and woke up 30 years later and everything had changed. Well, the xtians are kind of like that... fell asleep intellectually a long time ago and now everything (i.e. the ability of rational people to THINK) has changed. Only difference between the xtians and 'ol Rip is...

 

...Rip eventually WOKE UP.

 

So, yeah... count me in as well. I have 3 abdominal hernias and the potential for several more to develop (I had emergency appendix surgery a few years back and the hernias developed around the abdominal scar tissue). I cannot have them fixed right now because I am a very large person and there is danger that any stitching in the area would rip because of the mass of my abdomen.

 

Anyhoo, Yowee, YHWH, WXYZ, 1=3, All-Together-Now or whatever the fuck your name is, I'm waiting, too. I have a serious organic physical condition, not an imaginary pain or invisible cancer or whatever that no one can monitor. I CANNOT have surgery. I was your preacher and teacher for decades. Your book says I can never be lost. Or does it... anyway, dude, I'm waiting, too. Come on, bible-thumpers. Let's have all that 'ol time Pentecostal prayer power come a-floodin' in. Just god-damned, motherfucking ONCE.

[dibby]

Oh and none of this, "God got me a parking space once", stuff. How about a walk across the Atlantic to the UK (on the surface I meant!)?

[Japedo]

Put up (provide verifiable evidence) or shut up (keep your retarded “beliefs” to yourself and leave the rest of us alone).

 

That’s the deal. All things considered I think I’m being more than reasonable. You Christians are the ones writing checks your butts can’t cash. After all, “Outrageous claims demand outrageous proofs.”

 

The ball is in your court, you delusional nitwits.

 

~ Checkmate (back by popular demand)

 

No one has the art of cutting thru bullshit like you do!!! I'm so glad you're back!!

[Grandpa Harley]

Oh and none of this, "God got me a parking space once", stuff. How about a walk across the Atlantic to the UK (on the surface I meant!)?

 

Being, by nature, one of the more amiable and loveable souls (*cough* *splutter*) if they walked across the bottom with no breathing apparatus or support I'd be impressed...

[woodsmoke]

How about this approach:

 

You to xian: Do you believe in God?

Xian: Of course!

You: Do you believe in the Trinity?

Xian: Of course!

You: Do you believe that God hears prayer?

Xian: Yes, definitely.

You: Can you explain to me exactly how the Holy Spirit talks to people?

Xian: [detailed explanation]

You: Do you really believe this?

Xian: Yes.

You: Do you believe that when you pray to God to convert a sinner that the Holy Spirit talks to the sinner?

Xian: Yes.

You: Here's the deal. You pray for the Holy Spirit to convert me--just don't ever talk to me about it ever again. If I don't listen to the Holy Spirit, why would I listen to YOU?

 

I used a modified version with my sister. Haven't heard from her since. My life is easier.

 

 

Brilliant!

 

Ruby, I think you're my hero.

[Guest lamb on the lam]

How about this approach:

 

You to xian: Do you believe in God?

Xian: Of course!

You: Do you believe in the Trinity?

Xian: Of course!

You: Do you believe that God hears prayer?

Xian: Yes, definitely.

You: Can you explain to me exactly how the Holy Spirit talks to people?

Xian: [detailed explanation]

You: Do you really believe this?

Xian: Yes.

You: Do you believe that when you pray to God to convert a sinner that the Holy Spirit talks to the sinner?

Xian: Yes.

You: Here's the deal. You pray for the Holy Spirit to convert me--just don't ever talk to me about it ever again. If I don't listen to the Holy Spirit, why would I listen to YOU?

 

I used a modified version with my sister. Haven't heard from her since. My life is easier.

 

 

Brilliant!

 

Ruby, I think you're my hero.

[Guest lamb on the lam]

Checkmate, I think I have your answer. But, I'm too distracted and distraught by the world series right now, so will have to post tomorrow.

 

As to your question/s....who would have thought it would be the Russians in '85?

 

My Rockies!!!! My Rockies!!!!

[Guest lamb on the lam]

Checkmate,

 

I no longer consider myself a Christian nor do I have a desire to be a part of any other religion. I have, for the most part, concluded I have been duped and manipulated since birth as have so many others. But, there is one relatively recent thing (relative compared to the Bible) that still baffles me 22 years after hearing about it. Maybe you, or someone else here has read about this. It has nothing to do with Christian faith healers or any other person on the religion payroll. I have tried to confirm it as an urband legend on snopes, but with no luck. So here it is......

 

 

This story first appeared as a small paragraph in the Parade Magazine 1986 publication of "The Best and Worst of Everything" published about the previous year (1985). Assuming that most scientists, especially Russian scientists are either atheists or agnostics, and assuming that these scientists had no reason to lie, I find this hard to dismiss. And they categorized it under "Best International News". Hmmmm....

 

 

On January 5th, 1986, "Parade Magazine", a weekly publication that is delivered to a very great number of homes every week with their Sunday newspaper, ran an article entitled "THE BEST AND WORST OF EVERYTHING". The article was a review of the year 1985. Within that article, under the heading "Best International News" was the following report:

 

Six Soviet cosmonauts said they witnessed the most awe-inspiring spectacle ever encountered in space - a band of glowing angels with wings as big as jumbo jets. According to "Weekly World News", cosmonauts Vladimir Solevev, Oleg Atkov and Leonid Kizim said they first saw the celestial beings last July, during their 155th day aboard the orbiting "Salyut 7" space station. "What we saw," they said, "were seven giant figures in the form of humans, but with wings and mistlike halos, as in the classic depiction of angels. Their faces were round with cherubic smiles."

 

Twelve days later, the figures returned and were seen by three other Soviet scientists, including woman cosmonaut Svetlana Savitskaya. "They were smiling," she said, "as though they shared in a glorious secret."

 

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/pardmag.htm

 

 

AN ADDITIONAL REFERENCE TO ANGELS IN SPACE:

http://members.aol.com/phikent/orbit/orbit_page4.html

 

EDITOR'S NOTE: I recall this was reported in the New Year's Edition, "Parade Magazine," most significant events in 1985.

 

Something occurred with the Soviet Cosmonauts in the Salyut 7 that orbited the earth in 1985. This is a rather hushed secret that has been leaked to the west . .

The six Soviet Cosmonauts in 1985 saw "celestial beings" on the 155th day aboard their orbiting space station. This was first reported by Cosmonaut Vladimir Solevev and Oleg Atkov as well as Leonid Kizim. This is what they said, "What we saw were seven giant figures in the form of humans, but with wings and mist-like halos as in the classic depiction of angels."

 

As the Cosmonauts were performing medical experiments in Salyut 7 high above the earth, a brilliant orange cloud enveloped them, blinding them temporarily, and when their eyes cleared, they saw the angels.

 

The heavenly visitors, they said, followed them for about 10 minutes and vanished as suddenly as they had appeared. However, 12 days later, Cosmonauts Svetlana Savitskaya, Igor Volk, and Vladimir Dzhanibevok, who had just joined the others on the space station, also saw the beings. "They were glowing," they reported. "We were truly overwhelmed. There was a great orange light, and through it, we could see the figures of seven angels. They were smiling as though they shared a glorious secret, but within a few minutes, they were gone, and we never saw them again."

 

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardt...ls_in_space.htm

 

I wonder if anyone has ever interviewed these cosmonauts (individually or collectively) as to the veracity of their " angel vision". Perhaps they were under the influence of too much vodka and Tang. What do you think?

 

BTW, I am new to this forum, so try to be nice. Those who have only recently fled the flock are the walking wounded.

[Grandpa Harley]

Sounds more like 'Weekly World News' fodder... they found Hitler's plane on the moon...

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

I'm gonna have to call

 

SPACE MADNESS!!!

 

 

Checkmate,

 

I no longer consider myself a Christian nor do I have a desire to be a part of any other religion. I have, for the most part, concluded I have been duped and manipulated since birth as have so many others. But, there is one relatively recent thing (relative compared to the Bible) that still baffles me 22 years after hearing about it. Maybe you, or someone else here has read about this. It has nothing to do with Christian faith healers or any other person on the religion payroll. I have tried to confirm it as an urband legend on snopes, but with no luck. So here it is......

 

 

This story first appeared as a small paragraph in the Parade Magazine 1986 publication of "The Best and Worst of Everything" published about the previous year (1985). Assuming that most scientists, especially Russian scientists are either atheists or agnostics, and assuming that these scientists had no reason to lie, I find this hard to dismiss. And they categorized it under "Best International News". Hmmmm....

 

 

On January 5th, 1986, "Parade Magazine", a weekly publication that is delivered to a very great number of homes every week with their Sunday newspaper, ran an article entitled "THE BEST AND WORST OF EVERYTHING". The article was a review of the year 1985. Within that article, under the heading "Best International News" was the following report:

 

Six Soviet cosmonauts said they witnessed the most awe-inspiring spectacle ever encountered in space - a band of glowing angels with wings as big as jumbo jets. According to "Weekly World News", cosmonauts Vladimir Solevev, Oleg Atkov and Leonid Kizim said they first saw the celestial beings last July, during their 155th day aboard the orbiting "Salyut 7" space station. "What we saw," they said, "were seven giant figures in the form of humans, but with wings and mistlike halos, as in the classic depiction of angels. Their faces were round with cherubic smiles."

 

Twelve days later, the figures returned and were seen by three other Soviet scientists, including woman cosmonaut Svetlana Savitskaya. "They were smiling," she said, "as though they shared in a glorious secret."

 

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/pardmag.htm

 

 

AN ADDITIONAL REFERENCE TO ANGELS IN SPACE:

http://members.aol.com/phikent/orbit/orbit_page4.html

 

EDITOR'S NOTE: I recall this was reported in the New Year's Edition, "Parade Magazine," most significant events in 1985.

 

Something occurred with the Soviet Cosmonauts in the Salyut 7 that orbited the earth in 1985. This is a rather hushed secret that has been leaked to the west . .

The six Soviet Cosmonauts in 1985 saw "celestial beings" on the 155th day aboard their orbiting space station. This was first reported by Cosmonaut Vladimir Solevev and Oleg Atkov as well as Leonid Kizim. This is what they said, "What we saw were seven giant figures in the form of humans, but with wings and mist-like halos as in the classic depiction of angels."

 

As the Cosmonauts were performing medical experiments in Salyut 7 high above the earth, a brilliant orange cloud enveloped them, blinding them temporarily, and when their eyes cleared, they saw the angels.

 

The heavenly visitors, they said, followed them for about 10 minutes and vanished as suddenly as they had appeared. However, 12 days later, Cosmonauts Svetlana Savitskaya, Igor Volk, and Vladimir Dzhanibevok, who had just joined the others on the space station, also saw the beings. "They were glowing," they reported. "We were truly overwhelmed. There was a great orange light, and through it, we could see the figures of seven angels. They were smiling as though they shared a glorious secret, but within a few minutes, they were gone, and we never saw them again."

 

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardt...ls_in_space.htm

 

I wonder if anyone has ever interviewed these cosmonauts (individually or collectively) as to the veracity of their " angel vision". Perhaps they were under the influence of too much vodka and Tang. What do you think?

 

BTW, I am new to this forum, so try to be nice. Those who have only recently fled the flock are the walking wounded.

[woodsmoke]

Sounds more like 'Weekly World News' fodder... they found Hitler's plane on the moon...

 

Aye. WWN can hardly be cited as a believable source. They'd run a story on their own staff writers making up stories if it'd sell papers.

[Guest Marty]

Says they were doing "medical experiments".

 

I saw the sky fill with angels and surround a pyramid billowing with smoke while laying on the beach once. My friend was there too and saw the same things.

 

We were conducting our own medical experiment that night. IIRC, it was 2 hits each of some pretty strong acid. And of course, those angels were really just cloud coverings.

 

Now that I think about it, a bit later we were walking home and saw a chuch on fire and a shitload of fire trucks at the scene. It was early in my deconversion process and I remember thinking that my earlier vision was a premonition.

[R. S. Martin]

How about this approach:

 

You to xian: Do you believe in God?

Xian: Of course!

You: Do you believe in the Trinity?

Xian: Of course!

You: Do you believe that God hears prayer?

Xian: Yes, definitely.

You: Can you explain to me exactly how the Holy Spirit talks to people?

Xian: [detailed explanation]

You: Do you really believe this?

Xian: Yes.

You: Do you believe that when you pray to God to convert a sinner that the Holy Spirit talks to the sinner?

Xian: Yes.

You: Here's the deal. You pray for the Holy Spirit to convert me--just don't ever talk to me about it ever again. If I don't listen to the Holy Spirit, why would I listen to YOU?

 

I used a modified version with my sister. Haven't heard from her since. My life is easier.

 

 

Brilliant!

 

Ruby, I think you're my hero.

 

Thanks, Woody. It's just an idea that occurred to me sometime during one of the shit-storms with family. If they feel they have to "do something" they can pray. It won't serve their need for revenge but they profess to be doing it out of love. Revenge is not mentioned. So I am not mentioning it, either. They mention responsibility. So I cash in on that. Praying for me is a way for them to perform their "religious responsibility" and it won't impact me and my life. It will be a test for their faith but that is what religion is all about anyway, at least, that is what they told us when we didn't get what we wanted/needed.

[Checkmate]

The Christian silence is deafening.

 

Perhaps they've taken my challenge to heart and opted to "Shut Up." 'Bout damned time.

 

~ Checkmate