My Friend Is Dying

[par4dcourse]

Hi to all. I need some advice here.

I've been type 1 diabetic since near birth, with all the side ailments that entails. I had a heart attack at 45 and subsequent open heart surgery. I let my mother (a fundie) and all her friends pray for me (it made her feel better and what could it hurt) but I preferred to believe in a well trained surgeon and hospital staff than the spook above. I'm 50 now and in pretty good health considering.

I just found out that my best friend in the world has throat cancer (30 years of smoking), on top of a diagnosis of hep C and other liver complications last year. Our children (now late 20's) were raised together and are still close. Jerry and I shared parties, jail, wine, women and song. I've always been very liberal, but only recently "came out" as an atheist. He's a bit conservative (other than party habits) and would profess to be xtian if asked, although not practicing.

I took my own illness in stride since I've always been sick, but now my always healthy buddy has a potentially deadly disease and I don't know how to handle it. I'm OK with closing my eyes one day and not opening them again, but possible losing a close buddy, well, I'm overwhelmed and for the first time feel a little lost with no one to turn to.

My parents are in their 80's so I'm going to lose them soon too. I need to know how other x's handle loss, hardships, etc. (I know some of you have had major setbacks) without church support. I know the whole church setup is bs, but one of the few things they were good for is sympathy.

 

Love the site and look forward to any and all replies.

Larry

[SWIM]

Hi to all. I need some advice here.

 

I just found out that my best friend in the world has throat cancer (30 years of smoking), on top of a diagnosis of hep C and other liver complications last year.

 

 

Hello Larry,

 

about 15 years ago I was diagnosed with hep C. The first doctor I saw told me "to enjoy life, there is nothing that can be done". Not accepting that, I saw a few more, and finally found a *real* doctor. He gave me alfa-inferon, I had to inject myself with it daily for six months. It created severe mood swings, and I took *myself* off it after destroying the living room in a fit of rage and damn near shooting my wife.

 

Fortunately there are milder, more effective treatments for hep C, I don't think you even need to inject yourself anymore.

 

Bottom line is for 10 years after going off the drug, the virus is totally undetectable, and my liver is healthy. (I have regular blood tests to this day to be sure) I am even able to drink again.

 

There is hope for your friend. But, as you see from my experience, that doctors vary greatly in their approach to this illness. You *have* to find a good doctor, or else you die.

 

PS I am unfamiliar with cancer treatment, maybe someone else here can cover that for you.

 

I wish you and your friend all the best of luck.

[R. S. Martin]

Larry, I'm pretty new at being an exC but I'm not new at having bad things happening and never having god intervening. The thing that worked when I was a Christian still works. Take it one step at a time. Only now I don't waste energy hoping and praying that god will intervene. I only block out the "too-terrible" thoughts that would paralyze me, and seek to focus on the here and now, all the while seeking out possibilities to solve the problems. Usually we can handle things one step at a time. Ideas open up when we get there. We get strength we didn't have early on. Etc.

 

In this case, you might want to widen your social universe. Finding a support group for people who have dying friends or relatives might be one place to start. Or some other interest group. Western society is built around church. But there are other, less visible, social opportunities. I would not seek a religious support person because they automatically insert religious phrases. Well, let's see, last spring when my mother died and my family turned against me I did get through my crisis with the support of this group and mostly liberal Christian friends because that is who happened to be in my life at the time. It can work.

 

I think perhaps funeral directors might also be trained in helping people find resources. In my opinion, they should be prepared to help all religions and no religion, but personal conviction is sure to show through in many. I dunno. I think coping with death without god is one of the last things our society is prepared to attempt. Are we the first generation to do this openly on a wide scale?

[SWIM]

Here's a little bump for this thread to get a few more replies.

 

[SWIM]

I need to know how other x's handle loss, hardships, etc. (I know some of you have had major setbacks) without church support.

 

Ok, in my first response to you I gave you medical advice, but looking closer at your OP, it seems that is not what you are looking for.

 

Ok, I have had to go to several funerals in churches. How do I handle it? Well, on an outward level I stay silent. I am not going to argue theology at a funeral.

 

Secondly, I take comfort in the fact that "I don't know" what happens in the afterlife. It is possible in an infinite universe that we come back, since it happened once, in infinity it *could* happen again. ( I have other no-god afterlife theories, find them in the Death thread).

 

But, details on possible afterlife scenarios aside, by simply not knowing, having no proof either way, I can look at it as one of the mysteries of life, one I too will eventually take part in, as we all are mortal. This gives me a greater comfort I think, then fooling yourself into believing a hopeless doctrine.

 

I am a STRONG believer in common sense. It is the basic core logic we have that tells you 1+1=2. I also believe we all possess common-sense. Suppressing it out of fear or brainwashing does not *kill* it. If it did, there would be no ex-anything.

 

So if common sense is still alive in some hidden area of an xtian, doesn't that mean that the WHOLE brain is not in harmony? If the conscious mind is lip servicing xtianity, but the subconsious is crying foul, are you not suffering from an internal struggle?

 

By accepting that we don't know, we are being honest to both parts of our brain, the conscious and the subconscious. Having your thoughts in *harmony* with your subconscious, to me is a *stronger* comforter then believing something just to cure a fear of death.

 

Does this help?

[GraphicsGuy]

I need to know how other x's handle loss, hardships, etc. (I know some of you have had major setbacks) without church support. I know the whole church setup is bs, but one of the few things they were good for is sympathy.

 

Hi Larry, sorry you haven't gotten the replies/help you were hoping for. Honestly, I couldn't think of anything particularly comforting to say...although in retrospect a "Here for ya" probably would have been acceptable, correct?

 

While I haven't lost anyone due to death, I have lost friends and family due to my deconversion and (thusly) separation. I guess I felt like I couldn't relate to your OP and unfortunately I didn't catch your last sentence the first time I read your post. Didn't quite realize your request was more...general...in nature.

 

It is a lonely road without much help and online help only does so much (though I appreciate every ounce I've received) when real physical contact is what is truly needed. The only way I've been able to deal with it is to sink myself into a personal project. Originally I had wanted to start an ex-xian support group, but it's been converted into a skeptics group now since I was able to find some like-minded people in that regard far more quickly.

 

That's all I can suggest...much like Ruby did...find a group, start a group, do something you've always wanted to do. Enjoy the time you have left with your friend...do something crazy together. Take one of those "male-bonding" roadtrips there are so many movies about...

[xandermac]

I'm a fairly new at being an exc and I haven't had to deal with the death of a loved one yet. Once I did finally accept that there is probably no afterlife I grieved for those that I use to think were in heaven. It's hard to accept that my Mother is gone for good and I won't see her in some form someday, but I actually do see her in myself and my cooking and some of the crazy shit she used to say. I wish I had magic words for you but I don't. It's gonna hurt no matter what anyone says. I wish you peace.

[Legion]

Ah Larry, I’m sorry to hear that your friend is sick.

 

When my Dad died I probably benefitted from having other family and friends close by. But even then it seems that I partially retreated into a little bubble of grief for a while. For me that was the trick I think. Just for me to go ahead and grieve. I think that maybe it’s possible to pretend that the grief is not there, but maybe this only prolongs the process or delays it.

 

But your friend is not dead yet. And it seems neither are your parents. So my advice is to enjoy them while you can. And when they die just go ahead and experience the grief.

[Mongo]

Larry,

 

You saw my other post so I won't repeat.

 

I'm curious what you feel you would get from a church that makes grieving as an ex-C different?

 

We all bleed the same and have the same feelings. Xtians however, pretend that god will save them from reality. Is that who you are?

 

As an atheist, I find the usual xtian platitudes and aspirations are no better than an empty balloon. False hope does not soothe me because I am unable to supress reality. Reality is reliable, predictable; false hope always disappoints.

 

Am I nuts Larry? What do you think about grieving, the church and reality?

 

Mongo

[par4dcourse]

Am I nuts Larry? What do you think about grieving, the church and reality?

 

Mongo

 

The church I grew up in had an elaborate support network for loss of loved ones. Visitation, food, more food. Lot's of talking and commiseration. I guess that's part of the problem. My social circle, never very large, is smaller now. I didn't really believe the "so-and-so's in a better place now", but talking helped.

I need a hobby. Or a dog.

 

Larry

[Mythra]

I need a hobby. Or a dog.

 

There you go.

 

There's nothing that can take your mind off of your troubles like cleaning up dogshit from behind the couch or having to search out in the backyard for your left shoe.

 

[Mongo]

Am I nuts Larry? What do you think about grieving, the church and reality?

 

Mongo

 

The church I grew up in had an elaborate support network for loss of loved ones. Visitation, food, more food. Lot's of talking and commiseration. I guess that's part of the problem. My social circle, never very large, is smaller now. I didn't really believe the "so-and-so's in a better place now", but talking helped.

I need a hobby. Or a dog.

 

Larry

 

Church food is certainly comforting but not at all healthy.

 

A dog is a great idea. You could volunteer too.

 

Good to have you in the gang Larry!

 

Mongo

[Amethyst]

How I handle tough things in life is journaling. I have both a live journal and a regular journal for those sensitive things I don't want to put online, and a few real life friends who read my live journal. I find that it helps to just get it out, and I express my thoughts better in writing than anything else.

 

You have my condolences. Loss is never easy.