Amanda Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 The only way to be fair to ALL is to use fair methods in determining what really happened in our history on the planet and all accounts of gods can not be harmonized together. Your methods aren't really methods at all and are not fair to the other peoples of the planet. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's your opinion... and I respect that. I think your heart is sensitive to respecting life, all of it. If you don't understand me, you are in a group with a lot of people. I find no fault with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 What is the bible to you? Is it a fondness for a peoples guesses about a Creator? Or do you really believe that the Creator is more like what is described in the bible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Also keep in mind that the person who has the evidences and facts AND LOGIC on thier side is the person with the best opinion. The Scientific Method IS the superior method....so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 What is the bible to you? Is it a fondness for a peoples guesses about a Creator? Or do you really believe that the Creator is more like what is described in the bible? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 What is the bible to you? Is it a fondness for a peoples guesses about a Creator? Or do you really believe that the Creator is more like what is described in the bible? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Bible is a wonderful resource, if one knows how to use it correctly. I believe that to know the creator, it is a personal experience, a personal journey, similar to the one to know your earthly friend. Each person's bond to their spirituality is unique and personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Also keep in mind that the person who has the evidences and facts AND LOGIC on thier side is the person with the best opinion. The Scientific Method IS the superior method....so far. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> AHHHHH.... so that is how it is in your world. Isn't it wonderful that we don't all think alike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 The Bible is a wonderful resource, if one knows how to use it correctly. I believe that to know the creator, it is a personal experience, a personal journey, similar to the one to know your earthly friend. Each person's bond to their spirituality is unique and personal. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank you for answering my question. Thank you. Still you do realize that religion divides? Who's personal experience is the real personal experience if we take into account that all peoples accounts of gods CAN NOT be harmonized without rejecting some scripture in our holybooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Amanda"It is my understanding that God made us, out of himself, to be a companion in his image. Who wants a friend that they make them be their friend, and who wants a freind that thinks just exactly like them? Diversity brings the option to grow. Perhaps the human race is maturing and evolving into a perfect friend with the universe. Additionally, I think there is an aspect in which ALL are parts of God, and he/she is experiencing everything through all things, and what God determines to do he is doing to himself." You can have this without every page of your book. You can have it while keeping only your favorite scriptures while rejecting what is ugly in the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 AHHHHH.... so that is how it is in your world. Isn't it wonderful that we don't all think alike? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes. This is true. But I want consitency. The Scientific Method is superior in giving us consistency amoung other things. If there is a Creator I would rather believe stories that are consistent and that have vast amounts of evidences for it. I would not want to slander our Creator in any way either, if there is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 The Bible is a wonderful resource, if one knows how to use it correctly. I believe that to know the creator, it is a personal experience, a personal journey, similar to the one to know your earthly friend. Each person's bond to their spirituality is unique and personal. Ok. 1. Who knows how to use it correctly? 2. If it is a "personal" journey then why the bible? 3. If it is necessary to "know how to use the bible correctly" why is the knowledge to do so hard to come by? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 The bible says that is what god did, it's not a matter of interpretation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither * * can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Still you do realize that religion divides? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree religion divides, and that it is generally not a good thing, and I understand its basis for starting, yet I believe... it has LONG outlived its usefulness. So, Dogmatically Challenged, what about spirituality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither * * can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Question 1: How do you handle a situation were two spiritual persons have two different and conflicting interpretations of scripture? Question 2: And if you say that only one of them can be truly spiritual, how can you know which one to trust? Question 3: If you answer question 3 trough the spirit. Then why is there so many different spiritual people following different conflicting spiritual leaders? The only way of knowing if the spirit is true, at the end, you have to find a tangible and validating way of doing it. Outside faith and trust. And there is none... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 I think that you are being generous in this question considering that within Christianity, it becomes more like "over a hundred" spiritual people with "thousands" of conflicting interpretations of scripture. Damn, you're fast, I did an edit and added some followup questions, sorry... But yes, the problem becomes larger, because everyone have a different interpretation of the scriptures, and everyone believe they're led by the spirit. It's not only a contradiction, but if God exists and Holy Spook is guiding, then it is a masterminded chaotic confusion! I was begin generous with the question, just to make it straight to the simpliest formulation I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 I agree religion divides, and that it is generally not a good thing, and I understand its basis for starting, yet I believe... it has LONG outlived its usefulness. So, Dogmatically Challenged, what about spirituality? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If there is a Creator then its the atheists job to punch holes in peoples certitude. Certitude can be leathal. Thats the only thing I can guess as to why us atheists are here if people are right about there being a Creator. I don't believe in god, but maybe I'm wrong. I dunno. I think spirituality can be had without hanging on every single letter in our holy books and we must keep what is good and openly reject what is not good. Look from within to test what our ancesters wrote. A healthy bit of skepticism never hurt no one either. --Reason and Respect-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Amanda"It is my understanding that God made us, out of himself, to be a companion in his image. Who wants a friend that they make them be their friend, and who wants a freind that thinks just exactly like them? Diversity brings the option to grow. Perhaps the human race is maturing and evolving into a perfect friend with the universe. Additionally, I think there is an aspect in which ALL are parts of God, and he/she is experiencing everything through all things, and what God determines to do he is doing to himself." You can have this without every page of your book. You can have it while keeping only your favorite scriptures while rejecting what is ugly in the bible. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Ok. 1. Who knows how to use it correctly? 2. If it is a "personal" journey then why the bible? 3. If it is necessary to "know how to use the bible correctly" why is the knowledge to do so hard to come by? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Regarding that scripture....My, my, isn't that nice? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This scripture smacks of mindless bigotry. Also, I believe that even atheists can be spiritual without having any awareness of gods. The word is a nonsense word and needs to be given a different meaning so that it is actually useful. Either we atheists and nonbelievers ( natural women and men) are equal or we are not. Can't have it both ways. Some scripture must be rejected. Why can't people openly and unabashedly cherry pick the bible and keep the jesus tradition while admiting freely that it is ONLY thier tradition and that Higher Power and people takes precedence over tradition to stay in keeping with love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 Or I see that scripture as a cop-out technique. Interpret the scripture anyway you want and then say you got it through the spirit. No need to prove or lay down any evidentiary theology for you interpretation, just "The Spirit told Me!". It's funny it's allways "me" that get the truth from the Holy Spook, never someone else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 Amanda you are starting to wear on my nerves here sweetie. IF the noah story DID happen, then that story vixen just told you ALSO happened inevitably many many many times with many many many variations. YOu can't go around saying "this story happened" and then shy away from all moral implications hiding behind "interpretation" of said story. UNLESS your interpretation is that the story itself is a metaphor. YOu cannot play both sides of it. So either accept it didn't literally happen or accept all the logical conclusions morally, ethically, and logically, of it having happened. It's all fine and good that you are all positive and perky but you sound like a fluff bunny pagan...I can't deal with people who are this intellectually dishonest. And Amanda you ARE smart...but you are lying to yourself. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yea. What Zoe says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Question 1:How do you handle a situation were two spiritual persons have two different and conflicting interpretations of scripture? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> HanSolo, Jesus speaks, in a metaphor, about the difference of religous people and spiritual people. He says there will be those who study the Bible who claim to 'know' Jesus yet not use the spirit, and there will be those that use the spirit to know Jesus in the Bible. Jesus says of those who do not use the spirit, it will be as if he never knew them. I think that spiritual people have very similar ideas. It is the 'religous' people that seem to find a lot of conflict. Question 2:And if you say that only one of them can be truly spiritual, how can you know which one to trust? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My opinion is that there is a lot of 'religous' beliefs that have been handed down and not challenged for so long... it is hard to do so now. Somehow the repetitive parroting gives support to many that can not sense the indignant interpretation. A critical mind is hard to attain. The religion needs to be torn down, in many cases, so that spirituality can truly be freed. Spirituality is a PERSONAL journey for each person, each must find their own way yet the foundations are generally agreed upon... perhaps still refined along the way. Seems to me, it stays in congruency with what is sacred.... love, compassion, honor, integrity... most of the stuff I already see in you.... Question 3:If you answer question 3 trough the spirit. Then why is there so many different spiritual people following different conflicting spiritual leaders? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have found that spiritual leaders are quite similar, or a thread that seems to connect them all is. Perhaps thrusts of attention are placed in different arenas, perhaps the wording is different... yet the same underlying meaning seems to present itself. The differences are relatively small. It is usually the 'religions' that are polarized or background in those areas that damage the spiritual perspective. BTW, I don't think we all are suppose to be on an equal spiritual journey right now. If God is in control, and I think he is, then everyone is where they are suppose to be, and that is ok. I know that I do not have ALL the answers yet... that would be boring. The only way of knowing if the spirit is true, at the end, you have to find a tangible and validating way of doing it. Outside faith and trust. And there is none... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh! So.... that's how it is in your world! Whatever your world is HanSolo, I haven't seen it do too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Bump. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I already said I AGREE with you DC! I'll agree again though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Bump. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> DC, perhaps one knows how to use the Bible correctly when one not only finds solutions yet is also part of the solution. And DC, I have agreed with you many times that you don't have to have the Bible to get there! No you don't! And the knowledge of the Bible is there for those who are willing to look for their own journey via this way. The Bible has been handed down and it seems some interpretations have lost their accuracy... yet digging for treasures underneath the surface and past all the time laden adage... I believe these wonderful personally enhanced treasures are still in there. Perhaps the journey for them is part of the transformation process... only what you are ready to do will be revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 1 Corinthians 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres So humans have to obey these things, but not God. If God "is love" he surely is not defined by above scripture. Let's break it down some, shall we? 1)It's okay for "God" to be self-seeking and proud; Punish people to hell for unbelief and therefore not having people worship him. 2)It's okay for God to boast; See God boast of himself in Job. 3)It's okay for God to not only cause evil but LAUGH at the "evil" ones from his heavenly throne. - Sounds to me like he not only rejoices evil but delight's in it. Job shows that he even allows it. 4)God wants us to "trust" him even though he sends "lying and deceitful spirits" and will "send a great delusion so that they will be deceived". 5) Always protects but yet made the devil, who is like a lion ready to devour us? Where is his protection for believing children who are raped, murdered and beaten? I suppose the TYPICAL response will be that always doesn't really mean always. 6) Always perserveres??? Well, I suppose because a god CANNOT die, no wonder Jesus made it., etc. In this case, "always" means always because in the end god wins. According to the bible that is. 7) Always hopes? Does an omniscient deity hope? I wouldn't think so. And this is a deity that wants our worship and is worthy of our praise?!? I'm sure that others can break it down even further. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You are questioning the Gods charater, So let me question yours? What would you consider yourself: A servant to God(formally) A student of Gods(formally) An educator of His Word(formally) or all the above... Would you consider any of these things now to be your character? Would you consider yourself as one that denys that Christ was God? If you deny Christ as God, What would catagory would that make you? Is that catagory not talked about in the Book in criticism? There are two types of people(Biblically) a. Those that fulfill Gods Word. b. Those that fulfill Gods Word. There are two types of characteristics: a. Follower of God. b. Critic and disbeliever of God. So if the two types of people are the same(We have freewill to make our own decisions), but the characteristics are different. The Word will be fulfilled by believers (look in your Bible) labouring the harvest, or the Word will be fulfilled by disbelievers fulfilling the Spirit of the Anti-Christ( defining in the Bible as anyone that denys Christ). Thats it boys and girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 A whole post and not one answered question. You Christians certainly are talented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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