Amanda Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 I know. And I see Amanda is so uncomfortable with my questions now she's opted to completely ignore everything I've directed at her. Amanda, I'm still waiting on your moral excuse for kitten drowning. Thanks. You said you wanted to discuss it...now you are acting like it doesn't exist. Please remember the moral implications are only one very small part of my problems with the noah's ark story. We haven't even begun to delve into the absurdities yet. I feel it would be unfair to me, or to anyone really though to continue until the morality of kitten drowning is addressed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Zoe Grace, I think I have answered that... with my opinion... and it seems to me that it is you that does not want to listen to me... which would not make you the first.... and I find no fault with it either. Zoe Grace, putting all things aside for now... allow me to ask you a few questions... Do you believe that there should be consequences for one's actions or do you think that it is ok to neglect someone's accountability for a crime against someone else? How about if someone murdered your son while robbing a bank... what should we as society do? How about if someone killed your daughter while playing a game of 'how long can she hold her breath' under water? What, if any, would be the consequences for these acitions? Another 'what if'.... suppose someone, 300 years ago, brought an animal such as a cute squirrel from another country, freeing him in the forest, and it carried a disease that no other squirrel had the immune system to fight it. The disease is spreading rapidly. What would you suggest be the answer for back then? Please, no answers of what you 'wouldn't' do, but a solution. Sometimes we all want to enter the arena as demigods (not directed to you personally, but most all of us... me too) that have simple solutions for complex answers. On the surface of what is good and evil is easy, yet considering all the ramifications... the decisive measurements included to produce a final judgment in many areas becomes much more difficult. Sometimes we're left with what seems to be the lesser of two or more evils. And when we do finally make a decision after much consideration, we still don't know the entire impact of it... do we? I think I read from a book of Suffis this question... If your treacherous enemy comes by you and you kill him, then you are guilty of killing one person. If your treacherous enemy comes by you and you do not kill him, and he goes on to kill 300 people, how many deaths are you guilty of then? As for the question of which is more Christlike, biblegod or humans... it would depend on one's definition of God and perhaps to a lesser confusing definition of humans also. According to my beliefs, God and humans are part of the same thing... so how can one be better than one's self? Each part on their own adventure, each with their unique magnificence that contributes more greatly to the whole. God's desires are that people think it not robbery to be equal to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 That would be a great answer Amanda, if BibleGod wasn't actually a GOD and was rather just some human guy working at Denny's. Does BibleGod work at Denny's? Or is he omnipotent, omniscient, and capable of solving problems without resorting to murder in all sorts of ways humans can't be? Why do Christians insist on randomly diminishing their own god and giving him all sorts of limitations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 HanSolo, Jesus speaks, in a metaphor, about the difference of religous people and spiritual people. He says there will be those who study the Bible who claim to 'know' Jesus yet not use the spirit, and there will be those that use the spirit to know Jesus in the Bible. Jesus says of those who do not use the spirit, it will be as if he never knew them. I think that spiritual people have very similar ideas. It is the 'religous' people that seem to find a lot of conflict. This is what you call the "not a true Scotsman" Fallacy. You probably don't mean any arrogance by this, however, it is arrogant. Why? Because you are making the assumption that only those that think pretty much like you are TrueChristians. Back in the olden days I would have known by the spirit that you are a heretic. Now I know I was only fooling myself and you are fooling yourself. Nothing wrong with that I guess. I like Magicians as much as the next guy. But you'd better know the trick before you try to saw the woman in half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 That would be a great answer Amanda, if BibleGod wasn't actually a GOD and was rather just some human guy working at Denny's. Does BibleGod work at Denny's? Or is he omnipotent, omniscient, and capable of solving problems without resorting to murder in all sorts of ways humans can't be? Why do Christians insist on randomly diminishing their own god and giving him all sorts of limitations? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Christians just don't get it that people have limitations and because of that they have to break the rules some times or are stuck using violence to stop violence in some cases, where an omnibenevolent god with the ultimate super powers would not have these limitiatons. The only limittaion that an omnipowered god who IS love would have is to be consistent in being nonviolent in its dealings with its creatures IN EACH AND EVERY CASE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Doesn't that make you impressively magnanimous? Sorry chief doesn't work that way. Exactly when Did you address my kitten drowning question. You have never once told me yay or nay whether or not you believed it was ok for biblegod to drown kittens in the flood when there were lots of options that wouldn't have harmed innocents. I didn't ask WHY you thought god did it that way. I asked DO YOU BELIEVE KITTEN DROWNING IS OK. If you say yes, you are welcome to explain yourself...but one issue at a time. I listened, you evaded. Stop dancing.Well i don't believe in the death penalty. I don't believe an eye for an eye is moral or ok. I don't always live perfectly by that principle but it's what I believe. I believe they should be locked up for their crime. However I don't believe they should suffer. Our laws prevent cruel and unusual punishment. Biblegod's laws don't. Drowning is an incredibly cruel way to kill someone. Especially considering that biblegod supposedly didn't just drown monsters like what you say. Biblegod drowned everyone. old people, pregnant women, children, babies, animals (remember the kittens) You are creating a false analogy to excuse a blatantly immoral act and sorry but can't let you do that. So you feel it's ok to just add crap to the bible to make it seem ok? So let me get this straight...all the animals were disease ridden...let's drown them all but the two of every kind that don't happen to have it yet. Wow god is miraculous. Or maybe they all had it and biblegod just cured a few for the boat...why not cure them all. Christians are very fond of saying "god's ways are not our ways" then when faced with something immoral biblegod has supposedly done they limit god by human standards. It's hypocrisy. As humans...we would be forced to kill the squirrel (although I highly doubt we would DROWN it!) We would euthanize it, not cause it more pain. Or possibly quarantine it in order to work on a possible antidote. You act as if biblegod's only recourse is to drown everything. Like biblegod can't fix anything without violence. You just limited your allpowerful deity. i believe one can kill one's treacherous enemy if it's the only option to protect themselves...but in most cases I believe incarceration is the way to go. And btw...isn't that playing god? Do you know the future? How do you know he's going to kill 300 people? It's convenient to say: "I thought he was going to go kill a bunch of people." Isn't that making you a demigod...acting as if you know what "Joe treacherous enemy" is thinking or planning? YOu know god's desires do you? Interesting. If everything is a part of god...is god a masochist? Is it your belief that god is both PART of everything AND outside of everything...and choosing to do things that not only hurt others but himself as well? In your worldview...doesn't that make biblegod like a self-mutilator? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Zoe Grace, you seem to have these exchanges of ideas by yourself. You answered my part for me, with the answers you assume would be mine... Yet, I had specifically asked you to give me solutions, not what you would not do... specifically how would you handle those situations... and to make it more interesting... let's say it happened 5000 years ago... now what would you do? Giving shots that didn't exist yet? Just curious, what would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Zoe Grace, you seem to have these exchanges of ideas by yourself. You answered my part for me, with the answers you assume would be mine... Yet, I had specifically asked you to give me solutions, not what you would not do... specifically how would you handle those situations... and to make it more interesting... let's say it happened 5000 years ago... now what would you do? Giving shots that didn't exist yet? Just curious, what would you do? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What would Zoe do? I'm assuming, if she were a GOD, she just might will the situation away. And away the situation would go, and everything would be peaceful. Because after all, Zoe could do anything if she were a god. She could also make shots that didn't exist...exist. Since we are assuming Zoe had all the resources of a god. Let's face it Amanda, this isn't a case of WWZD (what would Zoe do), this is you stalling while you stumble around for answers you are afraid, no, terrified of facing. You can ignore me all you want. I'm not going away. Neither are these questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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