A Heart For God

[Mongo]

Growing up, Catholicism did little for me. I saw it as a tool for society and parents to guilt their kids into behaving. As to the existance of god, tales like Chariots of Fire made more sense to me.

 

When I was 17 I met some Baptists who talked about god living in your heart and changing your life. Their testamony seemed genuine and I swollowed it hook, line and sinker. One quote of the first bible study I want to that stuck in my mind is, "Prayer changes things".

 

For me, xtianity was therefore a relationship with god who lived in your heart and with whom I would commune.

 

As soon as my cousin gave me a New Testament, I devoured it and set myself toward understanding how to increase the bountiful joy that had overtaken me from having god in my life.

 

Prayer, bible reading/study and church attendance were very important elements of my life as means of increasing my communion with god.

 

As you can imagine, I fell in with a bunch of Pentecostals quite easily. (I wasn't a tongue talker though)

 

What was it like for you?

 

Mongo

[GraphicsGuy]

I was born into the Pentecostal church, dad became a preacher when I was 7. At fourteen I officially handed my brain over to Jesus. In the scheme of things it may have saved my life since I was so depressed and anti-social that I may have suicided otherwise. The good-feelings and sense of purposefulness saved me on more than one occasion. Of course, a hormone shot would have saved me and improved everything 20x over that had the problem been discovered.

 

So, yeah, prayer, bible study, church, youth group, music...I lived and breathed it. Self-medicating is all it was though.

[Mongo]

So, yeah, prayer, bible study, church, youth group, music...I lived and breathed it. Self-medicating is all it was though.

 

Thanks for sharing that. I'm glad things are working out.

 

I was socially very shy as a kid and xtianity gave me a social structure I could easily plug into.

 

However, I really believed that I had found the source to all of life's answers. In a sense that is like finding a cure to one's ills and it is self-medicative but I was not one to percieve himself as 'sick'.

 

It was more like embarking on a spiritual quest like someone would embark on an adventure to climb Mt. Everest.

 

Perhaps that was a way or my way to run away from life's challenges and reality.

 

Mongo

[Mongo]

I think by creating this post, I'm trying to clarify the contrast I sense between myself and others who were not 'rabid' seekers of communion with god.

 

I suppose for some it was the quest to know and understand the truth.

Perhaps for others it was justification and a sense of moral cleanliness.

Or perhaps other people wanted the same thing as me but perceived that it was achieved in a different way than my approach.

 

Perhaps I should have titled this thread, "What did you get out of Xtianity?"

 

Mongo

[R. S. Martin]

I think by creating this post, I'm trying to clarify the contrast I sense between myself and others who were not 'rabid' seekers of communion with god.

 

I suppose for some it was the quest to know and understand the truth.

Perhaps for others it was justification and a sense of moral cleanliness.

Or perhaps other people wanted the same thing as me but perceived that it was achieved in a different way than my approach.

 

Perhaps I should have titled this thread, "What did you get out of Xtianity?"

 

Mongo

 

NOTHING

 

Was born into it.

 

Was trapped in it.

 

Was strapped in it.

 

Maybe this wasn't meant for my type of situation.

[R. S. Martin]

I remember seeing the "Prayer changes things" motto on the wall in someone's home and wondering what I was missing or what was wrong with my faith that prayer never changed things in my life or in our family.

 

I also saw the motto "the family that prays together stays together." I just felt nothing regarding that one. Just numb. Like "what's that about?"

 

I found "God" in the sound of running water, in the sound of the breeze in the leaves or grass, in the deep blue of the sky, in the mystery of a foggy day, in the cat's purring and winding around my leg, in losing myself in the blizzard. Nature nurtured my soul, day and night and the seasons and the elements brought order to the chaos that was my life. The Spirit shone in the dazzling light of a beautiful spring day. Having lived all my life in the same geographical location, I have internalized the very slant of the daylight to the extent that I can "feel" the time of year simply by noting the slant of light. It "seems" like silo-filling time and I wonder why? I am living in the middle of the city. Then I become aware of the slant of the sunlight and the temperature of the air and the scent of ripening leaves, grass, and fall flowers. These things are "god" and structure life when humans fail.

 

My church overtly disparaged the kind of "Jesus in the heart" experience you describe. I don't know what life would have been like if this inner life would have been encouraged. Emphasis was on outer behaviour and attitude which I could never measure up to. Thus, I never fit in. Prayer never changed this, no matter how hard I prayed or how much faith I had. Leaving the church was not an option.

[Mongo]

I remember seeing the "Prayer changes things" motto on the wall in someone's home and wondering what I was missing or what was wrong with my faith that prayer never changed things in my life or in our family.

 

I also saw the motto "the family that prays together stays together." I just felt nothing regarding that one. Just numb. Like "what's that about?"

 

I found "God" in the sound of running water, in the sound of the breeze in the leaves or grass, in the deep blue of the sky, in the mystery of a foggy day, in the cat's purring and winding around my leg, in losing myself in the blizzard. Nature nurtured my soul, day and night and the seasons and the elements brought order to the chaos that was my life. The Spirit shone in the dazzling light of a beautiful spring day. Having lived all my life in the same geographical location, I have internalized the very slant of the daylight to the extent that I can "feel" the time of year simply by noting the slant of light. It "seems" like silo-filling time and I wonder why? I am living in the middle of the city. Then I become aware of the slant of the sunlight and the temperature of the air and the scent of ripening leaves, grass, and fall flowers. These things are "god" and structure life when humans fail.

 

My church overtly disparaged the kind of "Jesus in the heart" experience you describe. I don't know what life would have been like if this inner life would have been encouraged. Emphasis was on outer behaviour and attitude which I could never measure up to. Thus, I never fit in. Prayer never changed this, no matter how hard I prayed or how much faith I had. Leaving the church was not an option.

 

Thanks. Perhaps people find my question strange but, I find your explanations of where you found solace and how "Jesus in the heart" as you well put it was discouraged, quite descriptive.

 

My Catholic background did not encourage any kind of soulful or emotional experience. Yet, many Catholics would certainly tell you that their religion was a "comfort". I think my attitude was too practical for "comfort". What good is it? How does one use it? When I stumbled upon prayer and so called "fellowship with god", then I had something, a sort of 'tool' I could work with. A kind of "Work the program" and it would work for you. Love god and he would bless you. Hence, I put my heart into it.

 

Mongo

[R. S. Martin]

Mongo, I get the feeling many people on here are from evangelical churches, or Pentecostal. People who converted to such churches like you did might find your question meaningful. Maybe I shouldn't have responded, given that my life experience has been so drastically different from yours, because I don't think there is so much wrong with the question as that it just didn't fit my life experience. This has been one of those days when I couldn't focus on anything except this forum so I've been a it bored and maybe over-reacted to this question. I apologize.

[Amethyst]

I was born into the Missouri Synod Lutheran church. We went to church regularly, and did Bible studies at home when I was a kid. When I was 5, my parents gave me a child's book of Bible stories (I had learned to read at 4).

At 5 I also entered school, it was a Christian kindergarden. From there it was a Christian elementary school. I was basically never given a chance to develop my own system of thought until I was in high school. So yeah, it was very important. But again, I was forced into it.

[Skiergirl24]

I was born and raised Catholic. My extended family was comprised of old school, blind faith CAtholics who believed in ALL of the rules of the Church (Confession was needed, fornication was a sin, divorce was a sin, prayer could heal your life etc.). My parents were both Catholic but a bit more liberal. My mother felt it was inmportant to research, read, and question your faith. This helped her develop a stronger sense of faith. She was very well read, had her PhD in literature and was a brilliant woman. She was a believer. My father was a bit more into the blind faith. What Christianity gave me was a sense of hope. I truly believed that God punished the wicked and rewarded teh righteous and that one day we would all live with God inthe Kingdom of Heaven. That was a VERY peaceful and comforting belief. But as I aged I began to question and question and question. And my life experiences did NOT point to a benevolent, omnipotent God. When I actually READ the Bible as an adult I was shocked at the cruelty, torture, rape, murder and 'meanness' of God. This led to more questioning, investigating other religions, studying biology and science etc. I then decided that if there was a God...it was not Jesus, or God in the Bible...or the Quaran or Torah. If there was something it would be a creator -and that is all I could understand. That is kind of where I am today - I think there might be something...but I am not sure and am still searching.

[Islington]

Perhaps I should have titled this thread, "What did you get out of Xtianity?"

 

I got a kind an carring Family (as xtianity is very liberal here in Germany aspecially the Lutherans in the northern part). Xtianity was nothing to worry about and nothing opressive. It was like a furniture in my house of live - something to use when needed.

 

Personaly I might got some peace out of it in a hecktic Time where money is all.

[sojourner]

I was not raised christian but did go to a bible camp when very young and was introduced to God at that time. I do recall in my childhood after that for a time having a very real sense of Gods presence in my life if you will.

 

But that all changed with my harmones and the availability of drugs and alcholol and the opposite sex. God, Jesus and religion was only talked about over beers then and rarely.

 

My experiance with religion did not really begin till I was 25. Im 48 now.

 

just wanted you all to know that cause Im new to the forum and posting. I was told as long as I follow the rules I could post up here too, been down in the lions den, havent been eaten up yet though

 

sojourner

[SilentLoner]

Grew up in the catholic camp. I remember that during church services there was a special program for kids that emphasized the whole relationship with jesus. The teacher was so overdramatic when she told stories, she would walk around with hands over her heart and do stuff like cringe and change her voice pitch along with the events (you should have seen her version of 'jesus carries the cross').

[Islington]

Greetings sojourner, welcome here!

 

I started to venture activly to my recent religion with about 21 or so. It was also the time when I started to think about christianity and what it gave me. At that moment not very much and more to hate about that church...

 

You haven't been eaten in the lions den and you won't be here I think.

[L.B.]

I was adopted into a family that belonged to a fundamentalist church.

 

Dad's fundamentalism really just served his moral and political needs and not so much his doctrinal ones. He believed the doctrine because it was the stuff that came in the package with being a gun-rights-Republican-homophobe. NOT saying all gun-rights people are like that, so don't take any umbrage if you are NRA or anything; that was just his example.

 

Mom was 'saved' OUT OF the mean, nasty Cat-lick church so she could marry dad. She, of course, is the ONLY non-cat-lick in her whole family. Everyone else has an ethnic and familial tradition of being cat-lick, and that's that.

 

I was 'saved' at 5, baptized at 7, became a church member at 12. I spent 19 years in the fundie church of my parents, all the while lying, stealing, cursing, smoking, fornicating and everything else that might piss off fundies. Left the church as soon as I was old enough to choose for myself.

 

5 years later or so, I met the woman who eventually became my wife. We began attending church together, and like a good fundie, I 'saved' her from out of the 'ol nasty popish fiefdom of Romanism.

 

Anyway, when I 'committed my life' and was re-baptized to show my devotion to Jayzus, I went fucking rabid. Sing it with me:

 

Uber-fundamental-clapping-bible-waving baptist,

Uber-fundamental-clapping-bible-waving baptist...

 

(to the tune of 'Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious')

 

No, friends, I became the fundie we all love to hate. Joined the ranks of the tongue-talkin', prophesying, hands-laying ultra-charismatics. Went to Babble college. Led worship, both traditional and contemporary. Wrote Bible study material, booklets, tracts and pamphlets. Preached regularly. Witnessed on the street. Talked about secular radio, TV and literature as if Satan hisself had a printing press, broadcast studio and nightclub chain all under his control.

 

What did I get out of it, besides the feeling that I loved 'god' and was living to do 'his will'?

 

I loved the adulation of the crowds when I preached their lingo and sang their ditties. I TRULY believed I was singing and preaching 'the truth' and the 'word of god', but it sure did still feel nice to be appreciated and told I was 'anointed'.

 

Anyway, when I realized that prayer doesn't work for xtians any better than for anyone else, and when I realized how historically and theologically and morally and naturally/scientifically untenable the crap in the bible is, all the other deep-rooted good feelings about the xtian life just didn't serve to bolster my zeal anymore.

 

I was DEVOTED to every aspect of the xtian life. For years, I believed that all, yes, ALL the problems and issues we talk about here at ExC were EASILY surmountable if a xtian would justdo a few simple things. All anyone had to do was pray, seek 'the will of god', go to worship services and 'really' worship, and have constant fellowship with other like-minded brethren.

 

It was everything to me, because I was deluded into believing that was the only way to fly (pun intended).

[Mongo]

I spent 19 years in the fundie church of my parents, all the while lying, stealing, cursing, smoking, fornicating and everything else that might piss off fundies. Left the church as soon as I was old enough to choose for myself.

...

5 years later or so, I met the woman who eventually became my wife. We began attending church together, and like a good fundie, I 'saved' her from out of the 'ol nasty popish fiefdom of Romanism.

 

Anyway, when I 'committed my life' and was re-baptized to show my devotion to Jayzus, I went fucking rabid.

...

No, friends, I became the fundie we all love to hate. Joined the ranks of the tongue-talkin', prophesying, hands-laying ultra-charismatics. Went to Babble college.

 

Great story.

 

What sucked you back into fundyism? Was having to find a church to marry in lead to that?

 

 

For years, I believed that all, yes, ALL the problems and issues we talk about here at ExC were EASILY surmountable if a xtian would justdo a few simple things. All anyone had to do was pray, seek 'the will of god', go to worship services and 'really' worship, and have constant fellowship with other like-minded brethren.

 

Did you have a strong sense of god's presence or the infilling of the holy spirit?

 

I had all the deep emotional experience of the infilling except that because I didn't speak in tongues. I had a hard time processing the experience within the doctrial mandate that infilling only comes with tongues. What was wierd is that many who spoke in tongues, kinda like you, didn't have what we would have called the "fruit of the spirit" and yet I did. Many days I was on cloud nine, in complete tune with god. (What a self-absorbed time of my life!)

 

Mongo

[Mythra]

I was "saved" at the age of 22.

 

I don't like talking about it much. But I was definitely over the top.

 

Up at 3:00 or 4:00 a.m. every morning so I could have some time with Jesus before work.

 

Devouring the bible.

 

Church 3 times a week.

 

Heavily involved in music "ministry".

 

Christian songwriting.

 

gag.

 

Unable to think without analyzing the source (god or statan) of the thought.

 

Rejecting "worldliness"

 

Dreaming of heaven.

 

Feeling despair for the "lost".

 

It was really bad.

 

For a really long time.

[Hineni]

Born into an uneducated family in Tennessee, I was raised in an atomosphere of native superstition, hellfire and brimstone Baptist, with a parent who influnenced me with SDA teachings. At the age of 23 or so, I took to reading the bible on my own, due to a horrible fear of hell, but also afraid I'd not get to know this God who "created" me, and Yeshua, the loving man who died for me, and had his hand outstretched to me......my Comforter in times of great need (which was pretty damned often for me!)

 

I gave my heart and mind to God. Every breath was breathed for him. Eventually, I became a messianic, leaning more towards Judism (Yahwehism), without the belief of Christ being divine..just a man. Through that strange "walk", I sold most everything I owned, even my wedding ring. The television in the house was silenced, only messianic music heard, and bonfires dedicated to burning evil books and other material.

 

Slowly I began to lose it. Just breathing felt like sinning. I snapped when I found yeast in my house two days after Passover had begun. I began drinking heavily, everyday after work. I crucified Christ over and over and over...the shame and guilt was overbearing. I loved God SO much...the divorce from Christ drove me to attempt suicide.

 

What I took away from Christianity was mental illness that lead into a physical illness that I'm trying to recover from, today. I'm so glad to be free and on the road to Wellsville.

[Mongo]

I gave my heart and mind to God. Every breath was breathed for him. Eventually, I became a messianic, leaning more towards Judism (Yahwehism), without the belief of Christ being divine..just a man. Through that strange "walk", I sold most everything I owned, even my wedding ring. The television in the house was silenced, only messianic music heard, and bonfires dedicated to burning evil books and other material.

Hineni,

 

Great post, wow. This stuff blows me away. Thanks for posting... everyone!

 

I know there are not tons of posts but each contributor makes me so glad I started this thread.

 

One of the criticisms of ex-christians is that they were never really xtians. Stories like this remind me of the days when I struggled and sought god for all I was worth.

 

I can remember saying to myself that even if god never answered a lot of my prayers, surely he would have to lead me to the truth because I was certainly seeking god and of all things, god would never deny me the truth. I guess god is an atheist or at least not xtian!

 

I find myself amazed at the level of commitment that the apostate have expressed.

 

I once went through a period of time where I determined to "keep my mind stayed on him". To do that I pulled a page from the Pentecostal mantra and began to praise and thank god endlessly. I mean in an obsessed fashion where I would do it driving, waiting, walking and everywhere everytime. The trick worked like a charm and I was soon on the spiritual mountain of ecstacy for a few weeks and acting like a pie-ass spiritual giant being so filled with god and the spirit. As always though, the effect, always temporary, wore off and I went through a deep valley. (My sister tells me that this is like what she experiences when meditating.)

 

By the way, this experiment affected my personality. Sometimes I was utterly quiet and had nothing to say to other people because I was thinking god thoughts while still having a goofy grin on my face from the high. At other times I was making dumb jokes and laughing like they were funny. (I know that's dumb but I was 21-22ish OK???) Anyway, it was really weird emotionally and mentally.

 

One of the hard parts of leaving was abandoning the idea that if I sought god with enough of my will, I would find him. So in the end, I was likewise ashamed to have failed since in my twisted logic... I must not have put my whole soul into it. Can anyone say, "blame the victim"?

 

I'm glad I'm out too.

 

Mongo

[ShackledNoMore]

Mongo,

 

There are elements of my story that are pretty common with yours. I was also raised catholic (until the age of 12) followed by a stint in a pentecostal church (my mother converted and I followed her in). Just like you, I swallowed it hook, line, and sinker, but I think what is different about my story is that five year age difference. As a kid, to my detriment, I had an unusually large amount of trust in parents, teachers, and other adult authority figures, so I bought into the whole thing 100%, with total assurance that those adults were smarter, wiser, and better educated than me: they believed it beyond a shadow of a doubt, they were wise, it was true, I thought.

 

So in this context, I devoured what they told me, I was the most committed of pentecostal teens, I read the bible, and lived evangelical xianity the way I was "supposed" to. But really, that was it: I was doing what I was "supposed" to. And the three questions I see implicit in your post that I think I need to answer in mine have three different answers. The first part of my post may tell a little of what it was like for me. Second, duped the way I was and a committed fundy that I was my "relationship" with jesus (though he turned out to be a myth) was of utmost importance. Third, and in contrast, for what did I get out of xianity--well, it never really worked for me. I got robbed of using my mind, having handed it over to the church after being denied permission to question. I operated in a context where I supposed I was getting all the promised benefits of being xian. I took it for granted I had a relationship with god, but the fact is, there was nothing better about my life without my brain than what it would have been without my belief, and it would have been a lot better without the fear and the lies and the dogma and the taboos. I would not have understood or realized this while I was still a teen, but I got nothing out of xianity, and I lost a great deal to it.

[Mythra]

You know, Mongo - I think that's one thing that a lot of us here have in common.

 

We gave this religion everything we had. Many of us (like Hineni) just about lost it because of christianity.

 

I'd say the number of people here (at Ex-C) who were totally committed at one time outnumber those who sort of looked into it or just went to church once in awhile.

 

That's one reason (at least for me) it's easy to not look back. After devoting as much as humanly possible to this religion, it's much easier to totally dismiss those who say we weren't "real" christians. And to recognize that the blame lies not in our lack of dedication or inability to follow the gospel, but in the fact that there never was anything real on the other end of this "relationship".

[PoeticLicence]

My xtian resume' is like many others here:

1. Xtian for about 30 years (starting at age 17)

2. 24 of those years in ministry of some kind

3. a dozen or so of those years in the full-gospel, tongue talking charismatic movement

4. another dozen as a United Methodist

5. bible teacher (with a prayer focus)

6. playwright/songwriter

7. minster's wife for over 12 years

8. one year as a missionary in Africa

9. three years working at a major xtian ministry in Virginia Beach, VA (CBN)

 

Sadly, my "walk with Christ," while deeply passionate, was also dreadfully troubled from almost day one.

 

Once I became aware of "God's order" for men and women in the Body of Christ and in marriage as outlined in the bible, I stumbled on the uneven playing field from that day forward. What I called "sexism", Christians called God's order or God's assigned "roles" for the genders. People's reactions to my protests and questions ran the gamut from making excuses for God's "word" to outright rebuking me for not being submitted to God's big plan for humanity.

 

I spent thirty years suffering, praying, studying and begging God for answers as to why he'd subjugate half the body of Christ for no apparent or logical reason.

 

Then, over time, I realized: There are no logical reasons and I cannot live this way any longer. I'm now out of church for just over a year. And I'm still healing big time.