More On My Questioning Of Faith

[Skiergirl24]

The issue of evil and suffering is what has made me question my beliefs. I was Catholic and am now agnostic. This is somewhat of a hodgepodge of thoughts and experiences that led me to where I am today.

 

In terms of evil works, NOTHING, NOTHING can compare to the Bible. Catholics say that the Old Testament contains evil verses, but that the New Testament does not. Ha! Have they ever READ the Bible???

 

Jesus says, "Don't imagine that I came to bring peace on earth! No, rather a sword! lf you love your father, mother, sister, brother, more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. " Matthew 10:34

 

Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." Matthew 10:21

 

I have wondered if God cast Satan out because Satan stood up to him and actually told him He (GOD) was being evil. Hell, If I were an angel I would tell God he was behaving horribly and torturing people! I mean, God's acts are worse than those of Hitler, Stalin, Dubya etc. combined! The Bible says Satan was cast out for hubris...thinking he was better than, and challenging God. It does not take a huge leap of faith to think "Gee, maybe Satan was smeared by the Bible...made out to be a devil when in fact, he was the good guy who tried to put a stop to all this evil!" Now this is just a thought, I have not researched this idea enough to debate it at all.

 

I have asked for help in developing a sense of faith again. I am sort of on a quest to find God – if he exists. People tell me to read the Bible...that all the answers can be found in the Bible. I have read it...cover to cover, many a time. I get nothing out of it. From the beginning of time humans have searched for meaning. Why are we so pompous as to believe OUR God is the true God and our creation story is correct? In truth it holds no more merit than the belief of one African tribe that the world was created out of ant excrement. Not to mention the false promises. And if I believe anything in the Bible I have to believe the premise of why we are here in the first place. The Bible says we are here because of a pompous, arrogant ass of a God who banished us here to suffer for eating from the tree of knowledge. Why worship a God who demands our obedience and banishes us when we disappoint him? Would you banish your kids if they disobeyed you? Would you sit by and watch them suffer if, being an all powerful creature, you could save them all? Would you crucify your child to save the world...to make an example out of him/her when you could just wave your hands and heal the world? I doubt you would rather inflict pain upon your kin. One phrase that is repeated over and over again in the New Testament is "your faith has saved you." Those who blindy believe in God...even when he kicks them will be healed. Okay if that is true then why didn't Jesus heal my mother? She believed in him.

 

I talk with my cousin about God A LOT. She tells me to cry out and ask God to help me. She has told me that God does not reveal himself because we have free will to seek him out if we so choose. Oyyyyyyy if I had a nickel for every time anyone said that to me I could retire at age 27. It seems like a lame excuse, honestly. It points to a God so desperate for attention and so pompous that rather than reveal himself to people, he makes them search for him, makes them despair wondering if he exists...all to prove their love and faith for him. Kind of like an abusive boyfriend - I'm going to smack you around and rape you and then hope you will get on your knees and worship me

 

I have also spoken to many people about blind faith. I can honestly say I have never met a stupid atheist. Stupid Christians - heck yes! That is NOT to say that Christians, as a whole, are stupid. Not at all. But I get pissed off when people who have NEVER investigated the Bible, never read contradictory accounts etc. try to sway me with their faith. I spoke about this with my cousin and she said that simply because someone is not intelligent, it does not invalidate their faith. I disagree. Basically we are born into a religion. We are spoon fed our set of "beliefs" since birth. When people do not question it, and blindly accept the beliefs, they make the entire human race look pathetic. They proselytize and chant Bible verses yet do not understand even the basic concepts upon which their religion is based. Stupid people seem to make the best followers. When your IQ is lower than your systolic pressure it doesn't take much convincing that there exists an invisible man in the sky Would you expect a mentally retarded person to be able to fully grasp the concept of quantum physics? Religion, from what I have seen, is no less complex.

 

My cousin has also told me that my questioning of my faith will, down the line, give me a STRONGER faith. She mentioned the "Dark Night of the Soul." Many mystics, Monks etc. have questioned their faith and returned to the church with a stronger belief. To which I say...not exactly...sometimes there is Eternal Night of the Soul. Mother Theresa experienced what according to letters released in 2007, "may be the most extensive such case on record", lasting from 1948 till her death in 1997, with only brief interludes.

 

I’m still searching, and still coming up empty!

[GraphicsGuy]

Hey Skiergirl, welcome to the boards and a hearty, "I hear ya!"

 

Honestly, my own journey could mimic yours in many ways and I could certainly match you question for question. Gees, especially that cousin of yours...I'd have been raging at them by now!

 

The concept of Satan being the good-guy...I think I also considered that very scenario on the forum somewhere and we certainly aren't the first ones to entertain the idea. It's a very interesting possibility, but also seems we would be inevitably doomed if the creator of the universe was nothing more than a sadistic puppeteer. Then again, would it be better to burn in hell than be a mindless drone in heaven? Probably.

 

The Bible will not answer your questions because it does not and can not relate to real life on most levels. It cannot answer the question as to whether God exists or not. It says God exists. It also says the world is flat and that all Xians should be able to perform incredible miracles on a regular basis.

 

The Bible is only true because IT says it is true. NOTHING else in this world tells us that the Xian Bible is true...except for the people who believe that it's true...because it says it's true...and around the merry-go-round we go...

 

If the Xian God is true, then we have no free will because the entire history of the earth has been orchestrated by him to be exactly as it is today. We don't have free will to seek him out. He knew we'd be where we are today and he's moving pieces around to move us to where we'll be tomorrow.

 

So, welcome to the real world, Skiergirl. Welcome to the search for reality. No matter what you find, faith or non-faith, at least you know it will be far more real and satisfying than blind faith can ever be.

[lemon]

The issue of evil and suffering is what has made me question my beliefs. I was Catholic and am now agnostic. This is somewhat of a hodgepodge of thoughts and experiences that led me to where I am today.

 

In terms of evil works, NOTHING, NOTHING can compare to the Bible. Catholics say that the Old Testament contains evil verses, but that the New Testament does not. Ha! Have they ever READ the Bible???

 

Jesus says, "Don't imagine that I came to bring peace on earth! No, rather a sword! lf you love your father, mother, sister, brother, more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. " Matthew 10:34

 

Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." Matthew 10:21

 

I have wondered if God cast Satan out because Satan stood up to him and actually told him He (GOD) was being evil. Hell, If I were an angel I would tell God he was behaving horribly and torturing people! I mean, God's acts are worse than those of Hitler, Stalin, Dubya etc. combined! The Bible says Satan was cast out for hubris...thinking he was better than, and challenging God. It does not take a huge leap of faith to think "Gee, maybe Satan was smeared by the Bible...made out to be a devil when in fact, he was the good guy who tried to put a stop to all this evil!" Now this is just a thought, I have not researched this idea enough to debate it at all.

 

I have asked for help in developing a sense of faith again. I am sort of on a quest to find God – if he exists. People tell me to read the Bible...that all the answers can be found in the Bible. I have read it...cover to cover, many a time. I get nothing out of it. From the beginning of time humans have searched for meaning. Why are we so pompous as to believe OUR God is the true God and our creation story is correct? In truth it holds no more merit than the belief of one African tribe that the world was created out of ant excrement. Not to mention the false promises. And if I believe anything in the Bible I have to believe the premise of why we are here in the first place. The Bible says we are here because of a pompous, arrogant ass of a God who banished us here to suffer for eating from the tree of knowledge. Why worship a God who demands our obedience and banishes us when we disappoint him? Would you banish your kids if they disobeyed you? Would you sit by and watch them suffer if, being an all powerful creature, you could save them all? Would you crucify your child to save the world...to make an example out of him/her when you could just wave your hands and heal the world? I doubt you would rather inflict pain upon your kin. One phrase that is repeated over and over again in the New Testament is "your faith has saved you." Those who blindy believe in God...even when he kicks them will be healed. Okay if that is true then why didn't Jesus heal my mother? She believed in him.

 

I talk with my cousin about God A LOT. She tells me to cry out and ask God to help me. She has told me that God does not reveal himself because we have free will to seek him out if we so choose. Oyyyyyyy if I had a nickel for every time anyone said that to me I could retire at age 27. It seems like a lame excuse, honestly. It points to a God so desperate for attention and so pompous that rather than reveal himself to people, he makes them search for him, makes them despair wondering if he exists...all to prove their love and faith for him. Kind of like an abusive boyfriend - I'm going to smack you around and rape you and then hope you will get on your knees and worship me

 

I have also spoken to many people about blind faith. I can honestly say I have never met a stupid atheist. Stupid Christians - heck yes! That is NOT to say that Christians, as a whole, are stupid. Not at all. But I get pissed off when people who have NEVER investigated the Bible, never read contradictory accounts etc. try to sway me with their faith. I spoke about this with my cousin and she said that simply because someone is not intelligent, it does not invalidate their faith. I disagree. Basically we are born into a religion. We are spoon fed our set of "beliefs" since birth. When people do not question it, and blindly accept the beliefs, they make the entire human race look pathetic. They proselytize and chant Bible verses yet do not understand even the basic concepts upon which their religion is based. Stupid people seem to make the best followers. When your IQ is lower than your systolic pressure it doesn't take much convincing that there exists an invisible man in the sky Would you expect a mentally retarded person to be able to fully grasp the concept of quantum physics? Religion, from what I have seen, is no less complex.

 

My cousin has also told me that my questioning of my faith will, down the line, give me a STRONGER faith. She mentioned the "Dark Night of the Soul." Many mystics, Monks etc. have questioned their faith and returned to the church with a stronger belief. To which I say...not exactly...sometimes there is Eternal Night of the Soul. Mother Theresa experienced what according to letters released in 2007, "may be the most extensive such case on record", lasting from 1948 till her death in 1997, with only brief interludes.

 

I’m still searching, and still coming up empty!

 

I've only heard of Mother Theresa's doubt recently. I hate to say that I'm not at all surprised. What I'd really like to know is how she felt at the time of her death (instead of what I heard on CNN, something to the effect of "Jesus I love you").

 

I am also quite shocked at the Catholic Church's teaching on OT verses (being evil). That probably has a lot to do with them not encouraging their followers to read the bible (except psalms perhaps).

[R. S. Martin]

Talking about Mother Theresa. Some time ago I read a story about her in Guideposts. If I remember correctly, the editor had gone traveling with her and he held her up as a shining example of how to beg for the sake of the poor. Her method? They were traveling by plane. Lunch was served. She touched her food, then decided not to eat it but to donate money for it to the poor. Every passenger on the plane made that decision. The money was collected. When they disembarked from the plane, she requested the food. When met with incredulous looks from the plane personnel she pointed out that since the food had been touched they could not serve it to anyone else. Thus it might as well be donated to the poor. It was given. Then she ordered someone to loan his truck to transport the food to a village where she knew the food was desperately needed. I forget whether or not the truck was "borrowed" or legally loaned, but if I remember correctly, she got behind the wheel and drove.

 

I didn't know, and still don't, what to make of that story--how it holds up ethically.

[Dirac]

I have also spoken to many people about blind faith. I can honestly say I have never met a stupid atheist. Stupid Christians - heck yes! That is NOT to say that Christians, as a whole, are stupid. Not at all. But I get pissed off when people who have NEVER investigated the Bible, never read contradictory accounts etc. try to sway me with their faith.

This is so nice to read. Unlike myself, you've kept the spiteful generalisations of Christians at bay! A broad brush, I often have to be told, makes a fine mess.

 

My cousin has also told me that my questioning of my faith will, down the line, give me a STRONGER faith. She mentioned the "Dark Night of the Soul." Many mystics, Monks etc. have questioned their faith and returned to the church with a stronger belief. To which I say...not exactly...sometimes there is Eternal Night of the Soul. Mother Theresa experienced what according to letters released in 2007, "may be the most extensive such case on record", lasting from 1948 till her death in 1997, with only brief interludes.

 

I’m still searching, and still coming up empty!

"You'll come back stronger." I got told that too by so many people. Well, looking back, the people who questioned and came back were amongst the most closed-minded, blindly devout people I can recall ever encountering. Once you've started to question, and you don't get any answers, the only way back is to just shut down even more fully your critical thinking faculties and engage in blind acceptance of received doctrine from the pulpit.

 

I obviously don't know you, but I would encourage you to NOT STOP QUESTIONING. If you ask a question and the answer is obviously a steaming pile of turd, don't just ignore the smell (as I did), notch it up as yet more evidence of what unpolluted excrement Christianity is. Another girl posting on this section said she found it hard to trust herself having taken longer to reject Christianity than she felt was necessary. I thought she was being hard on herself, but it is much better if you can do what me and her didn't and get out ASAP if your questions are going unanswered and you continue to lie to yourself. It's hard - maybe impossible - to do, but that's the only 'advice' I can give based purely on my personal experience.

 

Finally, be sure of your rejection. Be sure of what you are rejecting and be sure of WHY you are rejecting it. Posting and discussing things here with us is a good way to do that, at least in my experience. I am not (I think others would agree with me here) going to try and talk you out of going to church, YOU need to make that decision. But talking things through with thsoe on the other side of the fence can be helpful. Talk your people at church, talk to us, think it all through for yourself - then come to your OWN decision.

 

If you aren't sure why you are rejecting, you're running the risk of returning as one of those closed-minded nuts I mentioned. OK enough of Dirac's wise words for now, the bill will be in the post.