Ot God

[sojourner]

Please forgive my response on another thread and my saying I was not going to post, I underestimated you all and apologize, and I hope you will do me the honor of sharing with me your opinion of what Im going to say here. I pretty much know how most christians deal with the problem of the OT God being so barbaric compared to the Father of Jesus Christ in the NT. But I really dont know what you all would think about my views, challange them for me. This has been a big problem for me for quite some time. I really struggle with the OT God compared to the nt God.

 

Here is the way Ive come to deal with it

 

It is meant to be metaphorical - to express how man goes from being so carnal to spiritual and is about what goes on within man.

If those things all really transpired to real people they are now in that great cloud of witnesses, and their lives are not over as God has made them alive and do count for the bible says that

these things are written for those of you whom the end of days are upon. Therefore seeing the application of those things as we read them and allowing them to work in our lives would bless those that lived them.

 

Secondly, the bible says 'I kill and I make alive'....Vengence is mine..Thou shall not kill

 

I have come to see that the fact that God makes alive is the huge part of this equation. Man cannot make alive again what he kills, God can. Therefore, if in the grand scheme of things if killing works to the planned outcome God has in mind and since He makes alive again what He kills then He is not killing to kill as man does. Making alive is huge to me in this thought process.

 

Edited to add, thirdly, because I see all mankind as eternal and all are going to enjoy the same eternity, this life is a small drop in the bucket therefore what happens here is but a pinprick compared to the grand scheme of things and I dont feel I could see the grand scheme clearly enough at this time to judge with any real foundation if you will.

 

I really want to know what you think and how you see these thought processes of mine. I want you to give me constructive insight that you have as to why my views here are faulty to you so I can perhaps gain some greater insight.

 

thanks

 

sojourner

[Grandpa Harley]

To me, the idea of 'life eternal' is at odds with everything we see. Even the stars die. If they didn't then the matter we are composed of would not exist. Also, the concept of 'this life is a drop in a bucket' simply cheapens human existence. It's simply nihilistic, rendering life as little more than a short prologue to some abstract 'jam tomorrow' ideal of Glory. Based on that argument, the Canaanite tribes and Midianites we're just 'fast tracked to glory' by god ordering them raped, slaughtered and enslaved (there's not much room for allegory... the language is pretty unequivocal)

 

The only person God made alive was Lazarus... it's not really a very good track record against all the people he killed or had killed on his order... and either Peter and crew offed Sapphia and Ananias or God killed them over money...

[SWIM]

Please forgive my response on another thread and my saying I was not going to post, I underestimated you all and apologize, and I hope you will do me the honor of sharing with me your opinion of what Im going to say here. I pretty much know how most christians deal with the problem of the OT God being so barbaric compared to the Father of Jesus Christ in the NT. But I really dont know what you all would think about my views, challange them for me. This has been a big problem for me for quite some time. I really struggle with the OT God compared to the nt God.

 

Well, for starters, the *authors* of the OT are completely different from the NT authors, and lived in different eras of time. Their lauguage, politics, and, well, bullshit factor were different too. If there were *not* striking differences it would be very strange.

 

Here is the way Ive come to deal with it

 

It is meant to be metaphorical - to express how man goes from being so carnal to spiritual and is about what goes on within man.

If those things all really transpired to real people they are now in that great cloud of witnesses, and their lives are not over as God has made them alive and do count for the bible says that

these things are written for those of you whom the end of days are upon. Therefore seeing the application of those things as we read them and allowing them to work in our lives would bless those that lived them.

 

Yeah, but lots of the stuff is *NOT* metaphor, it does not read like that in many circumstances, and I seem to remeber someone in another tread point this out, with good examples. Lots of killing and war, all kinds of bad stuff, likely did happen and is not metaphor. The whole book is by no means 100% metaphor, there is much in it that was meant to be literal.

 

Secondly, the bible says 'I kill and I make alive'....Vengence is mine..Thou shall not kill

 

I have come to see that the fact that God makes alive is the huge part of this equation. Man cannot make alive again what he kills, God can. Therefore, if in the grand scheme of things if killing works to the planned outcome God has in mind and since He makes alive again what He kills then He is not killing to kill as man does. Making alive is huge to me in this thought process.

 

Well, for one thing hes not making anything alive. There is real proven science to explain the whole birth cycle to end term. There are also proven reasons why plants grow, and it is not this --->

 

Edited to add, thirdly, because I see all mankind as eternal and all are going to enjoy the same eternity, this life is a small drop in the bucket therefore what happens here is but a pinprick compared to the grand scheme of things and I dont feel I could see the grand scheme clearly enough at this time to judge with any real foundation if you will.

 

Purely an agnostic mindset though, but ok.

 

I really want to know what you think and how you see these thought processes of mine. I want you to give me constructive insight that you have as to why my views here are faulty to you so I can perhaps gain some greater insight.

 

Because you are thinking with your heart and not your head. If you have self doubts, start thinking more logically, use common sense, stay within the bounds of nature, not super-nature. I would suggest filing *belief* in to speculation mode first. Once you convince yourself you know a thing is true, even with no evidence, your mind won't want to question it again, but rather defend it. This is an enemy to free thinking.

 

The bottom line really is a need to work on rational thought processes to achive better wisdom and understanding, in all areas of life.

thanks

 

sojourner

[Dhampir]

Here is the way Ive come to deal with it

 

It is meant to be metaphorical - to express how man goes from being so carnal to spiritual and is about what goes on within man.

Yes, but only because you see it that way. Otherwise, no... N... not even a little bit...

[Skankboy]

Any attempt to reconcile the OT and NT is going to cause some severe cognative dissonance. Want to know what the OT is talking about? Ask a JEW!

 

How can a "perfect" being change over time? Wouldn't that mean it was "less perfect" before.

 

Eternity - doesn't exist.

 

And to say this existance is just a "blip" when compared to an eternal afterlife is one of main beefs with the Christian thought process. Such thinking demeans and cheapens our time here. Our existence is finite and tenuous at best. How much more precious is the finite existence versus your "eternal" afterlife? Answer = infinitly.

 

Sojouner, stop looking beyond this life. Make the best of this one and the lives of those who are important to you. That's what matters. Wishing for an afterlife is just mind's way of denying that the world could possibly exist with out it. Pure ego in my opinion...

 

IMOHO,

[Jubilant]

Sojourner... Have you read Revelations? "God" seems to resort back to being barbic and hateful.

[Vigile]

Personally I think the NT god in the form of Jesus and Paul's Jesus is more barbaric and more dangerous than the OT.

 

Most people don't take seriously commands not to eat shell fish and lock their women in the basement during their "dirty" time of the month (ok, bit of an exageration; sue me), but how many suffer bouts of anxiety because they can't get sanctification right? How many suffer tremendous levels of guilt because they can't overcome their natural evolutionary instincts? How many make asses of themselves in front of their friends and family because they need to fullfill the great commission?

 

NT god teaches people to hate themselves. He teaches them that they are unworthy and that they are lucky that someone would love such a slug as themselves. It is not a beautiful message in any way. It does not offer a reasonable moral guide by which to live one's life, but instead offers a binary world view and conflicts (internal and external) as a result. It does not offer believers anything but frustration and excuses to remain ignorant.

 

No, OT god is like Thor. Everyone, including your average Joe Biblethumber, knows he's not real. It's the one they believe is real that needs to be reviled.

[sojourner]

To me, the idea of 'life eternal' is at odds with everything we see. Even the stars die. If they didn't then the matter we are composed of would not exist. Also, the concept of 'this life is a drop in a bucket' simply cheapens human existence. It's simply nihilistic, rendering life as little more than a short prologue to some abstract 'jam tomorrow' ideal of Glory. Based on that argument, the Canaanite tribes and Midianites we're just 'fast tracked to glory' by god ordering them raped, slaughtered and enslaved (there's not much room for allegory... the language is pretty unequivocal)

 

The only person God made alive was Lazarus... it's not really a very good track record against all the people he killed or had killed on his order... and either Peter and crew offed Sapphia and Ananias or God killed them over money...

 

Hi Grandpa Harley

 

But why does death equal the end of something to you. Just because we cannot see the life of the star does not mean it is not moved beyond site to me. I guess that is where you and I differ so much, huh. Not everything is by site to me proven.

 

How does thinking that our life is so much bigger than this existance cheapen it to you? That doesnt make sense to me. To me its actually making it more precious because its part and parcel of something much more grand, a small beginning if you will but I dont despise small beginnings.

 

Yes I do struggle very very much with the raping and pillaging all in the name of God, I would be very interesting what jew would say to that.

 

Saying the only person God made alive again is Lazarus to me is equating life to only the physical and not the spiritual. At this point in my understanding I cannot do that. Life to me is very much a spiritual thing.

 

I struggle with the annanias thing as well, in fact, I was discussing this with some friends in that the apostolic movement in this country is very much salivating for these kinds of manifestations to begin happening again in their churches. That sickens me to no end. Why do christians stay so focused on death and destruction of others ?

 

thanks Grandpa

 

sojourner

[Dhampir]

Why do christians stay so focused on death and destruction of others ?

Because the bible can justify it.

[sojourner]

Because you are thinking with your heart and not your head. If you have self doubts, start thinking more logically, use common sense, stay within the bounds of nature, not super-nature. I would suggest filing *belief* in to speculation mode first. Once you convince yourself you know a thing is true, even with no evidence, your mind won't want to question it again, but rather defend it. This is an enemy to free thinking.

 

The bottom line really is a need to work on rational thought processes to achive better wisdom and understanding, in all areas of life.

 

Hey Michael

 

Ok I hear you but in my own experiance what I have learned with my heart as you put it is just as viable to me as what Ive learned with my head. If not more so.

 

I was thinking last night most of the night on many things that being at this website stirs up within me. For one thing it is very hard because we are coming from such different places. Even fundies would have more in common because they do think literally even if they are ignoring half the bible. But me on the other hand, I am what is termed a mystical christian. Most of what I know though I can find it in scripture is not based on physical site and rational thought. lol so trying to communicate is like a whole new world to me talking to you guys. Forgive me if I frustrate you in the process. Im sure becaue of the way Im bent I must seem crazy as one person said or just ignorant if you will.

 

How does one suspend belief.......I wouldnt even think that would be possible, if you believe then you believe right? If you believe in something how can you just file that to speculation when its belief? Doesnt seem possible to me in my current understanding.

 

Thanks for taking the time to repsond

 

sojourner

[sojourner]

Any attempt to reconcile the OT and NT is going to cause some severe cognative dissonance. Want to know what the OT is talking about? Ask a JEW!

 

How can a "perfect" being change over time? Wouldn't that mean it was "less perfect" before.

 

Eternity - doesn't exist.

 

And to say this existance is just a "blip" when compared to an eternal afterlife is one of main beefs with the Christian thought process. Such thinking demeans and cheapens our time here. Our existence is finite and tenuous at best. How much more precious is the finite existence versus your "eternal" afterlife? Answer = infinitly.

 

Sojouner, stop looking beyond this life. Make the best of this one and the lives of those who are important to you. That's what matters. Wishing for an afterlife is just mind's way of denying that the world could possibly exist with out it. Pure ego in my opinion...

 

IMOHO,

 

Hi Shankboy

 

I dont think a perfect being would change and in fact the bible says God does not change so that causes the great problem in logic for me then, ok and hence the whole question of this thread for me. That means there has to be something Im not getting or else the jews werent hearing God at all but their own thirst for blood was speaking to them......so far my main conclusion has been that i just dont get it.

 

Wow to the finite vs eternal, we are so opposite in our thinking, its so foreign to me to even consider that but I am trying to wrap my brain around that thought process.

 

I guess I dont see that looking beyond this life hinders me from making the best of this one, to me they intertwine like a rope made of strands. So that finite and eternal are somehow intertwined. How is that ego, I dont understand that statement so help me to understand what you mean?

 

thanks

 

sojourner

[Jun]

Mystical Christian?

 

Christian - a person who adheres to Christianity, the teachings of Jesus Christ as presented in the bible.

Mystic - a person pursuing the achievment of communion with, or conscious awareness of, ultimate reality, spiritual truth, or "God" through direct experience, intuition, or insight.

 

Care to explain?

[sojourner]

Sojourner... Have you read Revelations? "God" seems to resort back to being barbic and hateful.

 

Yes and Revelations is All metaphorical to me. If I were to find physical literal truth in it I would be more inclined to agree with preterism that it is referring more to 70ad

 

but to me again, this is about kingdoms within man that are being destroyed and the spiritual or awareness as one person here would say is coming to life. The transformation of old to new, from worm to butterfly if you will, all thru Jesus Christ.

 

sojourner

[sojourner]

Mystical Christian?

 

Christian - a person who adheres to Christianity, the teachings of Jesus Christ as presented in the bible.

Mystic - a person pursuing the achievment of communion with, or conscious awareness of, ultimate reality, spiritual truth, or "God" through direct experience, intuition, or insight.

 

Care to explain?

 

Well those both work together to me lol

 

ouch, I already feel it coming

 

sojourner

[SWIM]

Because you are thinking with your heart and not your head. If you have self doubts, start thinking more logically, use common sense, stay within the bounds of nature, not super-nature. I would suggest filing *belief* in to speculation mode first. Once you convince yourself you know a thing is true, even with no evidence, your mind won't want to question it again, but rather defend it. This is an enemy to free thinking.

 

The bottom line really is a need to work on rational thought processes to achive better wisdom and understanding, in all areas of life.

 

Hey Michael

 

Ok I hear you but in my own experiance what I have learned with my heart as you put it is just as viable to me as what Ive learned with my head. If not more so.

 

That's an irrational way to think though, it only can apply to things unproven and unseen, why? Because those things forever remain silent and will not *argue* with you. There is nothing at all viable about emotional ideas (heart thinking really). No scientist thinks with his heart.

 

I was thinking last night most of the night on many things that being at this website stirs up within me. For one thing it is very hard because we are coming from such different places. Even fundies would have more in common because they do think literally even if they are ignoring half the bible. But me on the other hand, I am what is termed a mystical christian. Most of what I know though I can find it in scripture is not based on physical site and rational thought. lol so trying to communicate is like a whole new world to me talking to you guys. Forgive me if I frustrate you in the process. Im sure becaue of the way Im bent I must seem crazy as one person said or just ignorant if you will.

 

You dont seem crazy, just stubborn and determined to think irrationally.

 

How does one suspend belief.......I wouldnt even think that would be possible, if you believe then you believe right? If you believe in something how can you just file that to speculation when its belief? Doesnt seem possible to me in my current understanding.

 

It's easy to suspend belief when one realizes that belief is placed on ideals that originated in the imagination and not in fact. It is easy to discard belief. For example, if you firmly believe the earth is flat, that is a belief. When it's explained to you, logically so you understand, that it is indeed round, of course you can stop believing it is flat. Basic common sense. Rational thought. Very few rational people would even ask the question "how do you suspend beleif" it's a seriously simple minded question. (no offense)

[SWIM]

Mystical Christian?

 

Christian - a person who adheres to Christianity, the teachings of Jesus Christ as presented in the bible.

Mystic - a person pursuing the achievment of communion with, or conscious awareness of, ultimate reality, spiritual truth, or "God" through direct experience, intuition, or insight.

 

Care to explain?

 

Well those both work together to me lol

 

ouch, I already feel it coming

 

sojourner

 

 

Actually no they don't at all work together for you, and it is apparent in your very own words. "Christian - a person who adheres to Christianity, the teachings of Jesus Christ as presented in the bible." the first of the BOTH you *say* work for you. So far you have given ZERO indication that you believe anything at all in the bible. You reject hell, you reject the "died for your sins" doctrine, which is the heart of christianity itself. They are not working together for you, one is in stark contrast and conflict with the other in nearly every one of your posts.

[sojourner]

Because you are thinking with your heart and not your head. If you have self doubts, start thinking more logically, use common sense, stay within the bounds of nature, not super-nature. I would suggest filing *belief* in to speculation mode first. Once you convince yourself you know a thing is true, even with no evidence, your mind won't want to question it again, but rather defend it. This is an enemy to free thinking.

 

The bottom line really is a need to work on rational thought processes to achive better wisdom and understanding, in all areas of life.

 

Hey Michael

 

Ok I hear you but in my own experiance what I have learned with my heart as you put it is just as viable to me as what Ive learned with my head. If not more so.

 

That's an irrational way to think though, it only can apply to things unproven and unseen, why? Because those things forever remain silent and will not *argue* with you. There is nothing at all viable about emotional ideas (heart thinking really). No scientist thinks with his heart.

 

I was thinking last night most of the night on many things that being at this website stirs up within me. For one thing it is very hard because we are coming from such different places. Even fundies would have more in common because they do think literally even if they are ignoring half the bible. But me on the other hand, I am what is termed a mystical christian. Most of what I know though I can find it in scripture is not based on physical site and rational thought. lol so trying to communicate is like a whole new world to me talking to you guys. Forgive me if I frustrate you in the process. Im sure becaue of the way Im bent I must seem crazy as one person said or just ignorant if you will.

 

You dont seem crazy, just stubborn and determined to think irrationally.

 

How does one suspend belief.......I wouldnt even think that would be possible, if you believe then you believe right? If you believe in something how can you just file that to speculation when its belief? Doesnt seem possible to me in my current understanding.

 

It's easy to suspend belief when one realizes that belief is placed on ideals that originated in the imagination and not in fact. It is easy to discard belief. For example, if you firmly believe the earth is flat, that is a belief. When it's explained to you, logically so you understand, that it is indeed round, of course you can stop believing it is flat. Basic common sense. Rational thought. Very few rational people would even ask the question "how do you suspend beleif" it's a seriously simple minded question. (no offense)

 

No offense taken in fact you cracked me up! Maybe I am just too simple minded.

 

Ok so according to this post it really helps me see the transformation from christianity to an ex-christian - all you did was suspend belief. Then you began to look at things from an outsiders view. Relegated all you formerly believed to your imagination?

 

correct?

 

sojourner

[Mythra]

YEAH! An opportunity to once again present Achan's case. As his self-appointed spokesman - I try to keep him in the forefront - as far as important issues of the day are concerned. Primarily because it is SO revealing about the character of a certain three-legged deity whom we all know and love. I'll just give a brief outline of the account (from Joshua Chp. 6 & 7)

 

1. The Israelites are preparing to attack Jericho. (sidenote - on direct orders to kill everyone except a prostititute. ? oh - great another WTF moment for the christians)

 

2. So, eventually the walls fall down, yada yada, and the Israelites cut everyone's throats - including the kids, etc. yada yada - Just another typical godly slaughter type day.

 

3. The Israelites dedicate all the gold and silver and stuff from the pillage to Yahweh. Yahweh's really cool with the whole idea - cause he likes gold and silver - a lot.

 

4. Some little nobody from the tribe of the Judah named Achan gets sticky fingers. A shoplifter, basically. And he decides to keep a couple of "souvenirs".

 

5. Yahweh / Jesus freaks out. Stomps his feet and rolls on the floor in the ultimate deitetical temper tantrum.

 

6. So, the very next battle (at Ai) 36 Israelites get their asses handed to them on a platter. And Joshua is like - "WTF God" ??

 

7. So God lets Joshua know about Achan the shoplifter.

 

8. They take Achan - his wife - HIS LITTLE KIDS - his cattle - his donkeys (poor little donkeys) - his sheep - and God's chosen ones start throwing rocks. Lots of rocks. Until Achan and family are dead. Then the Israelites heap up the poor, blood soaked pile and burn em.

 

9. And then what? Well of course - "Then the LORD turned from his fierce anger" .

 

 

I'll be goddammed if I'll ever worship this prick-god again.

 

And that's our biblical lesson for the day.

 

God-bless all.

[sojourner]

Mystical Christian?

 

Christian - a person who adheres to Christianity, the teachings of Jesus Christ as presented in the bible.

Mystic - a person pursuing the achievment of communion with, or conscious awareness of, ultimate reality, spiritual truth, or "God" through direct experience, intuition, or insight.

 

Care to explain?

 

Well those both work together to me lol

 

ouch, I already feel it coming

 

sojourner

 

 

Actually no they don't at all work together for you, and it is apparent in your very own words. "Christian - a person who adheres to Christianity, the teachings of Jesus Christ as presented in the bible." the first of the BOTH you *say* work for you. So far you have given ZERO indication that you believe anything at all in the bible. You reject hell, you reject the "died for your sins" doctrine, which is the heart of christianity itself. They are not working together for you, one is in stark contrast and conflict with the other in nearly every one of your posts.

 

ah so this is where I am so confusing then. Now I understand why I sounded off my rocker to DevaLight and someone else perhaps.

 

I come across as not believing that Jesus died for my sins. Actually I do believe that Jesus took on the sins of all mankind. Not just mine but all sin of all men.

 

I just dont believe that it was to satisfy a bloodthirsty God but rather to shed the old and bring us into the new

 

like the worm to the butterfly if you will going thru its transformation, He is the head of all men to me so as the head goes the rest of the body goes. That cross to me is the womb, caccoon if you will, the tomb......where transformation takes place.

 

sojourner

[Grandpa Harley]

To me, the idea of 'life eternal' is at odds with everything we see. Even the stars die. If they didn't then the matter we are composed of would not exist. Also, the concept of 'this life is a drop in a bucket' simply cheapens human existence. It's simply nihilistic, rendering life as little more than a short prologue to some abstract 'jam tomorrow' ideal of Glory. Based on that argument, the Canaanite tribes and Midianites we're just 'fast tracked to glory' by god ordering them raped, slaughtered and enslaved (there's not much room for allegory... the language is pretty unequivocal)

 

The only person God made alive was Lazarus... it's not really a very good track record against all the people he killed or had killed on his order... and either Peter and crew offed Sapphia and Ananias or God killed them over money...

 

Hi Grandpa Harley

 

But why does death equal the end of something to you. Just because we cannot see the life of the star does not mean it is not moved beyond site to me. I guess that is where you and I differ so much, huh. Not everything is by site to me proven.

 

How does thinking that our life is so much bigger than this existance cheapen it to you? That doesnt make sense to me. To me its actually making it more precious because its part and parcel of something much more grand, a small beginning if you will but I dont despise small beginnings.

 

Yes I do struggle very very much with the raping and pillaging all in the name of God, I would be very interesting what jew would say to that.

 

Saying the only person God made alive again is Lazarus to me is equating life to only the physical and not the spiritual. At this point in my understanding I cannot do that. Life to me is very much a spiritual thing.

 

I struggle with the annanias thing as well, in fact, I was discussing this with some friends in that the apostolic movement in this country is very much salivating for these kinds of manifestations to begin happening again in their churches. That sickens me to no end. Why do christians stay so focused on death and destruction of others ?

 

thanks Grandpa

 

sojourner

If a star is greater than 2 solar masses, it becomes a black hole... something that is annihilation incarnate. Space and time are not just warped but torn asunder, and matter is 'destroyed' since it moves 'outside' the universe... thus even the universe dies, in heat death and colliding black holes...

 

At the moment, you're still spouting self referential gibberish... So why are you here? To share a revelation that makes no sense to anyone but yourself?

[SWIM]

Mystical Christian?

 

Christian - a person who adheres to Christianity, the teachings of Jesus Christ as presented in the bible.

Mystic - a person pursuing the achievment of communion with, or conscious awareness of, ultimate reality, spiritual truth, or "God" through direct experience, intuition, or insight.

 

Care to explain?

 

Well those both work together to me lol

 

ouch, I already feel it coming

 

sojourner

 

 

Actually no they don't at all work together for you, and it is apparent in your very own words. "Christian - a person who adheres to Christianity, the teachings of Jesus Christ as presented in the bible." the first of the BOTH you *say* work for you. So far you have given ZERO indication that you believe anything at all in the bible. You reject hell, you reject the "died for your sins" doctrine, which is the heart of christianity itself. They are not working together for you, one is in stark contrast and conflict with the other in nearly every one of your posts.

 

ah so this is where I am so confusing then. Now I understand why I sounded off my rocker to DevaLight and someone else perhaps.

 

I come across as not believing that Jesus died for my sins. Actually I do believe that Jesus took on the sins of all mankind. Not just mine but all sin of all men.

 

I just dont believe that it was to satisfy a bloodthirsty God but rather to shed the old and bring us into the new

 

like the worm to the butterfly if you will going thru its transformation, He is the head of all men to me so as the head goes the rest of the body goes. That cross to me is the womb, caccoon if you will, the tomb......where transformation takes place.

 

sojourner

 

Well the sins of humankind are alive and well, so he did a rather poor job. He is certainly not *my* head, and I don't go where he goes.

 

The cross was a diabolical means of capitol punisment, humanity at it's cruelist. There is nothing beutifull about whipping the shit out of someone then killing him publicly on a wooden cross. "Womb"? "Caccoon"? What transformation? That last sentence is doctrinal nonesense and it is easy to see why you reject most doctrine.

 

Do you have any idea how totally idiotic that sounds to a rational thinker? It's laughably silly.

[Japedo]

Please forgive my response on another thread and my saying I was not going to post, I underestimated you all and apologize, and I hope you will do me the honor of sharing with me your opinion of what Im going to say here. I pretty much know how most christians deal with the problem of the OT God being so barbaric compared to the Father of Jesus Christ in the NT. But I really dont know what you all would think about my views, challange them for me. This has been a big problem for me for quite some time. I really struggle with the OT God compared to the nt God.

 

Hey Soj.

 

It is natural that you struggle, We've all been there. Things that helped me was understanding from the orginal writers themselves. As already stated, ask a Jew about the OT (Original testament ). You will be surprised how nothing at all is as it's taught in the Christain dogma.

 

Know how a Jew is able to take a stance of Pro-Choice?

 

Life never began for Adam until God breathed life into his nostrils. Life begins with the first breath, not with conception. (As the soul goes into the body with the first breath) This is an interpretation majority of Christians can't even comprehend. As barbaric as the OT God is, he has a more fair way for one to redeem themselves. The OT God is only able to forgive sins against God, not against man. In other words, if you wrong someone you yourself have to fix it and make the mistake right. There are two types of wrongs. Wronging god, and wronging man. The key to this atonement is.. you can't even ask god to fix the wrong against him until you fix the wrong with man first. This forces people to walk the straight and narrow. Give pause to things they say, do and so forth. You also suffer for your own wrong doings. Yom Kippur

 

With Judaism they incorporate logic into their lifestyle, another thing Christians aren't capable of doing. It takes a lot of work to be a jew. It's not easy. Having said that.. there is this thing called the 7 Noahide Laws the laws which apply to gentiles.

 

1. BELIEF IN G-D

Do not worship Idols

 

2. RESPECT G-D AND PRAISE HIM

Do Not Blaspheme His Name

 

3. RESPECT HUMAN LIFE

Do Not Murder

 

4. RESPECT THE FAMILY

Do Not Commit Immoral Sexual Acts

 

5. RESPECT FOR OTHERS’ RIGHTS AND PROPERTY

Do Not Steal

 

6. CREATION OF A JUDICIAL SYSTEM

Pursue Justice

 

7. RESPECT ALL CREATURES

Do not be cruel to animals.

 

 

That's it, also backed up with scripture. You can view the links if your interested.

 

In order to find the Truth ™ I believe things we are taught are supported by logic and reason as a sort of back up if you will. You will not find answers without looking. The NT was written by Greeks and Romans, hence why it mirrors a lot of Pagan rituals and story's. Once you see things from a Jewish point of view, you will see that greeks and romans highjacked their holy book and applyed their own outcome to it.

 

Did you also realize that the 613 laws (commandments) Jews follow, it is against the law to sacrifice humans so says god. Their Messiah is to fully human and not a godman. Their messiah is suppose to be a great leader like Moses, no angles, no trumpets... Just peace. The best advice you've gotten is to look into the meaning of the OT by the orginal writers. If you want more help or direction into this I'll be happy to help. If not that's okay too. Good luck on your search....

[sojourner]

So why are you here? To share a revelation that makes no sense to anyone but yourself?

 

Ive said many times why Im still here, to learn and challange my beliefs basically, not to convince you all of mine, its very obvious to me that those of you that share with me have made up minds, your not going to learn from me, to you Im not even close to being someone you could learn anything from, correct?

 

However, I happen to view you all different, folks I can learn from.

 

But how do you know that what goes into a black whole is just gone, annhilated if you will? Science doesnt really know does it? Im no expert on this by any means.

 

destroyed can mean changed, transformed just as a worm is destroyed when the butterfly has taken flight

or a cigarette is destroyed when it is burned by being transformed to ashes and smoke

 

sojourner

[Grandpa Harley]

Reading further... effectively you're echoing Param'hansa Yogananda's view that he espoused in 'The Second Coming of the Christ'. an interesting take on Christianity, since it's very similar to yours, if I'm reading it right... It's an entertaining read...

[sojourner]

Please forgive my response on another thread and my saying I was not going to post, I underestimated you all and apologize, and I hope you will do me the honor of sharing with me your opinion of what Im going to say here. I pretty much know how most christians deal with the problem of the OT God being so barbaric compared to the Father of Jesus Christ in the NT. But I really dont know what you all would think about my views, challange them for me. This has been a big problem for me for quite some time. I really struggle with the OT God compared to the nt God.

 

Hey Soj.

 

It is natural that you struggle, We've all been there. Things that helped me was understanding from the orginal writers themselves. As already stated, ask a Jew about the OT (Original testament ). You will be surprised how nothing at all is as it's taught in the Christain dogma.

 

Know how a Jew is able to take a stance of Pro-Choice?

 

Life never began for Adam until God breathed life into his nostrils. Life begins with the first breath, not with conception. (As the soul goes into the body with the first breath) This is an interpretation majority of Christians can't even comprehend. As barbaric as the OT God is, he has a more fair way for one to redeem themselves. The OT God is only able to forgive sins against God, not against man. In other words, if you wrong someone you yourself have to fix it and make the mistake right. There are two types of wrongs. Wronging god, and wronging man. The key to this atonement is.. you can't even ask god to fix the wrong against him until you fix the wrong with man first. This forces people to walk the straight and narrow. Give pause to things they say, do and so forth. You also suffer for your own wrong doings. Yom Kippur

 

With Judaism they incorporate logic into their lifestyle, another thing Christians aren't capable of doing. It takes a lot of work to be a jew. It's not easy. Having said that.. there is this thing called the 7 Noahide Laws the laws which apply to gentiles.

 

1. BELIEF IN G-D

Do not worship Idols

 

2. RESPECT G-D AND PRAISE HIM

Do Not Blaspheme His Name

 

3. RESPECT HUMAN LIFE

Do Not Murder

 

4. RESPECT THE FAMILY

Do Not Commit Immoral Sexual Acts

 

5. RESPECT FOR OTHERS’ RIGHTS AND PROPERTY

Do Not Steal

 

6. CREATION OF A JUDICIAL SYSTEM

Pursue Justice

 

7. RESPECT ALL CREATURES

Do not be cruel to animals.

 

 

That's it, also backed up with scripture. You can view the links if your interested.

 

In order to find the Truth I believe things we are taught are supported by logic and reason as a sort of back up if you will. You will not find answers without looking. The NT was written by Greeks and Romans, hence why it mirrors a lot of Pagan rituals and story's. Once you see things from a Jewish point of view, you will see that greeks and romans highjacked their holy book and applyed their own outcome to it.

 

Did you also realize that the 613 laws (commandments) Jews follow, it is against the law to sacrifice humans so says god. Their Messiah is to fully human and not a godman. Their messiah is suppose to be a great leader like Moses, no angles, no trumpets... Just peace. The best advice you've gotten is to look into the meaning of the OT by the orginal writers. If you want more help or direction into this I'll be happy to help. If not that's okay too. Good luck on your search....

 

Thank You Japedo, that is a great post and gives me something I can sink my teeth in and meditate on

 

I appreciate that and confess my ignorance of how a jew understood and understands his God.

 

sojourner