Tempted To Go Back To Church

[Naughtyhamster]

A week or so ago I was chatting with some xtian guy at the tutoring center I work at and he told me something interesting about his weekend. He told me how "blessed" he was as Gawd gave him thirty grand into his bank account as his brother got rich from praying to Gawd so shared the money with him. As someone who was told if I pray hard enough and go to church "things good will fall from the sky" for me I was getting a feeling of wanting to go to church again and try harder in praying and doing xtian things again so I can get some hopefully good fortune coming to me. At the same time I thought of the hell I went to last time I went to church as I was being led into one bad situation into another and no "blessings came out of the sky" for me.

 

A few days ago while on the bus I told my mother it would be fun to go to a Greek Orthodox church, but she vetoed the idea as she's grown up in the Protestant ideals of Christianity and finds some aspects of Orthodox Christianity strange. I know a few people who go to Greek Orthodox churches who are quite liberal (my Greek boyfriend is a fan of hentai). Still I don't want to get into those feelings of depression again when I attend church and nothing happens but crap, or as my grandmother says "Gawd is testing you. You should be happy! Grin and bear it!" while everyone else seems to get blessed in one way or another. I don't want to go to church again and feel heartbroken feeling like "Gawd hates me!" when shit happens.

[Deva]

I have not attended church regularly since 2000. I have gone back a couple of times. I don't believe any of it doctrinally. It is for the social aspect and aesthically I enjoy the Anglican mass. I have to park my brain at the door though, and can only do that for a limited time.

 

I have visited the Russian and Greek orthodox churches. I really enjoyed the atmosphere, particlarly in the Russian church, and I like the icons. I might even go back again one day. That doesn't mean I am a believer or will become one.

 

The idea that if one goes to church nothing bad can happen, or that good things will happen, is a big part of the xian brainwashing. It is overcome and exploded by looking at how bad things do in fact happen on a regular basis to regular churchgoers, even ministers and priests. They are not exempt from bad health, accidents, divorce (if they can marry), or any other of the problems we all face. I guarantee you that this sudden windfall of cash which this person got did not happen by prayer. There was another reason. If it actually did happen by prayer, there would be so many people attending church they wouldn't be able to build enough churches to hold all of them! Whether things happen or not is dependant on a million reasons that no one can pin down.

 

This "god is testing you" phrase is just ignorance from someone who doesn't know what to say. I say go to the Greek Orthodox Church if you think you might like it. It is quite different and interesting if you have never been to one before. If you think going to any sort of church might depress you, then don't go.

[R. S. Martin]

I don't see how anyone can link prosperity with the Christian message. I have heard about prosperity gospel and I watched one or two prosperity preachers on videos and it's just sick. I see nothing Christ-like in the message. Jesus said, "Blessed are the poor in spirit," and he was always making the poor and needy out to be the better people. When Jesus said not to worry about where the next meal was going to come from, or not to worry about having nice clothing, he seemed very much to be upholding the poor.

 

At the same time, he obviously hung out with some less than very poor people. Some of his friends had ships and fishing businesses, and homes with servants. His own dad (Joseph) seems to have had a carpenter shop which would probably translate into business, right? So it seems that Jesus lived a fairly comfortable life, but not the rich man's life. And talking of rich men, all the fundies know about the rich man who went to hell. And why did he go to hell? Because he did not share his wealth with poor Lazareth.

 

In that society, sharing one's wealth with the poor was seen as being the noble man's duty, part of being patriotic; it was built into the system of ettiquette and polite society. There was no welfare state of any kind. But this patronage system took care of some of the poor. Maybe that is why Jesus seems not to have had anything yet he hung out with friends who had stuff.

 

Whatever, I just don't get it how anyone links prosperity or material blessings with the Christian message. The closest I can come to any real solution is Randall Balmer asking in an interview with a prosperity preacher in the early 1990s about the people in his church, whether they were not good Christians if they weren't doing well financially. The preacher sort of shrugged and insisted that "They must be doing something wrong!"

 

Yeah right! they must be doing something wrong. But maybe what they were doing wrong was giving their grocery money to the church and it did not turn into loaves and fishes for them like it did in the Bible. Or maybe they had more kids than they could support because the church said they had to. Assuming that the "something" they are doing wrong must of necessity be a reflection on their faith is just plain ridiculous.

 

So if you really want to go to church, NaughtyHampster, I don't think anyone here is going to stop you from going. Nor do I think anyone here is going to think less of you. I would add, if you want financial advice, talk to someone who is trained in financial management, not to a prosperity preacher. After all, he's a businessman lining his own pockets. So is the financial advisor. The difference is that the financial advisor's bread and butter depends on the success of his clients while the prosperity preacher's bread and butter depends only on keeping his pews filled with dewy-eyed hopefuls and wanna-bes.

 

The financial advisor has to deliver in THIS life and there is a direct relation between the cause and effect of his teaching and the practical real life results. The preacher need only promise; the relationship between his doctrine and the real practical world is so vague as to be negotiable when confronted on any specific item. That has got to make a difference when it comes to accountability. That is my opinion on the matter.

[Dave]

From what I see here, leaving a religion leaves a raw, open, wound in the psyche. It takes awhile for it to heal and there's always the possibility of the infection (the religion) re-establishing itself.

 

If you don't feel right going to that Greek church, then don't go. I'd only go if they had some kind of Greek festival and had some home made Greek food about.

 

And that guy with all the money.... I'd check out his story a bit deeper. I have heard several TV preachers claim that you will become wealthy by becoming a better christian. All you had to do was send him money to become a better christian.

[Naughtyhamster]

If you don't feel right going to that Greek church, then don't go. I'd only go if they had some kind of Greek festival and had some home made Greek food about.

 

Last time I was at a church it was a Greek Orthodox one as there was a festival going on this Spring. I'm going next year as I'm addicted to Gazoza right now, a Greek drink which tastes like a cross between 7-Up and tropical fruit, which I can't find here in any markets here in the OC. Also there were some hot looking Greek men walking around. Too bad most of them were barely legal age, or were twenty years my senior.

 

And that guy with all the money.... I'd check out his story a bit deeper. I have heard several TV preachers claim that you will become wealthy by becoming a better christian. All you had to do was send him money to become a better christian.

 

The guy told me his older brother sent him the money after not speaking to him in around fifteen to twenty years. If a relative which I hadn't spoken to in fifteen years or more all of a sudden gave me a large amount of money I would just be sure their motives are pure.

[Grandpa Harley]

The Christian Prosperity thing is a spin off from 19th Century American New Thought; Wayne Dyer being the best known proponent these days, but you can see it in things like Napoleon Hill's 'Think and Grow Rich' or Florence Scovel Shinn's work. Christian Science is an off shoot of New Thought... Phineas Parkhurst Quimby being ground zero for both Christian Science, and the wider New Thought Movement.

 

TBH, some of the ideas remind me of Aleister Crowley's work... and certainly taps into the cultural underpinning of 'magical thinking' that has been a feature of mankind for a very long time, in a Jung, Fraser, Campbell way... myths having 'power'... and belief being able to do some pretty wild (in a Charles Fort sense) things...

[Kelli]

One word...

 

RUN!

[4truth]

I don't understand about this and "answers to prayer" . If you believe that God is unchangeable, it doesn't make sense to believe that you're going to change his mind about wealth or Aunt Myrtle's cancer outcome or anything else just by asking or doing the right things. Do people think that he just sits up there and thinks, "Hey, I never thought of it that way! I think I'll do what those peons want."

[Dave]

Last time I was at a church it was a Greek Orthodox one as there was a festival going on this Spring. I'm going next year as I'm addicted to Gazoza right now, a Greek drink which tastes like a cross between 7-Up and tropical fruit, which I can't find here in any markets here in the OC. Also there were some hot looking Greek men walking around. Too bad most of them were barely legal age, or were twenty years my senior.

I go for the tsipouro and the Greek foods. After enough tsipouro the Greek women start to look pretty good......

 

The guy told me his older brother sent him the money after not speaking to him in around fifteen to twenty years. If a relative which I hadn't spoken to in fifteen years or more all of a sudden gave me a large amount of money I would just be sure their motives are pure.

Or guilt based. I'd be skeptical of where it came from and why. But that's just me.

[Naughtyhamster]

I go for the tsipouro and the Greek foods. After enough tsipouro the Greek women start to look pretty good...

 

Gazoza is a popular soft drink from Greece, but here in the OC you're more likely to find sodas from Asia. Asian soft drinks always have some rather crazy flavors which I can't stomach, but I'm surprised that the stuff from Europe tastes quite good.

 

My other problem is two of my xtian cousins are married now, and they seem to throw their good luck in my face as saying "Gawd loves me more than he loves you! Look how blessed we are!" Last year I was very depressed for a few months until one of my teachers had a talk with me before class. She told me I should enjoy every moment of being single as it won't last, but I don't think she knows I'm a thirty year old virgin who just wants a good relationship with a guy.

[Everglaze]

My other problem is two of my xtian cousins are married now, and they seem to throw their good luck in my face as saying "Gawd loves me more than he loves you! Look how blessed we are!" Last year I was very depressed for a few months until one of my teachers had a talk with me before class. She told me I should enjoy every moment of being single as it won't last, but I don't think she knows I'm a thirty year old virgin who just wants a good relationship with a guy.

 

Everywhere and anywhere you go you'll see people with better luck than others. Using Christianity to explain good luck is one of the things that I wondered about while I was a Christian. It only made me envious, which was a bad feeling for a Christian to have. Christianity started as a joy for me, but it quickly waned down to depression, insecurity, confusion, anger, disappointment and loneliness. Don't listen to people that act like snobs by using Christianity. Find people elsewhere other than church (you'll only be treated in a condescending manner with all that Christian crap to go with it). Have you ever tried finding people online?

[white_raven23]

Psshh.

 

If you want to pray for money, pray for money. You don't have to go to church to pray....or is church like....a cable tv dish? What...like better transmission? God only gets the prayers that make it to his crappy old black and white analog tv with a wire coat hanger covered in tinfoil for an antenna?

[Kelli]

If you want to pray for money, pray for money. You don't have to go to church to pray....or is church like....a cable tv dish? What...like better transmission? God only gets the prayers that make it to his crappy old black and white analog tv with a wire coat hanger covered in tinfoil for an antenna?

 

 

[lemon]

Normally, I shudder at giving someone direct advice on what to do about a situation. But I feel compelled to do so here. Do not go back to church expecting that if you pray hard enough for ANYthing, it will happen. The reality is, life simply does not work that way. Sure, you will hear of people who prayed for something and got it. But remember, there are just as many people, if not more, who prayed for things (like money) and never saw a breakthrough (some of those people are dead and gone). If you want to go to a church, go...that's your choice. But going back expecting all miracles to break loose...I promise you will be dissappointed.

 

We all want money (and other things in life). I learned that if I want something, I'm better off chasing my dream and making it happen than praying for it to happen.

[Ramen666]

I can't stand going to church...why because everytime I go I feel like I am being judged. I haven't even said I am an atheist but come on, every single time I go I feel really uncomfortable. The reason is because my parents stopped going to church, right when I was questioning my religous views. It was convient for me indeed, I have only been to church 3 times in the last 3 years. But every time I go back I just feel weird about it, because everyone seems so damn stuck up and the political ideology is controling my former church. It is also the reason that my church became broken because our pastor kept insulting Democrats,and liberals. (That is what my friend, typical non questioning friend told me)

[mwc]

A week or so ago I was chatting with some xtian guy at the tutoring center I work at and he told me something interesting about his weekend. He told me how "blessed" he was as Gawd gave him thirty grand into his bank account as his brother got rich from praying to Gawd so shared the money with him. As someone who was told if I pray hard enough and go to church "things good will fall from the sky" for me I was getting a feeling of wanting to go to church again and try harder in praying and doing xtian things again so I can get some hopefully good fortune coming to me. At the same time I thought of the hell I went to last time I went to church as I was being led into one bad situation into another and no "blessings came out of the sky" for me.

This is all true. True. True. True.

 

"God" gives money to people in churches. Go for a drive through Compton. Or you live around OC so head on over to Santa Ana. Lots and lots of cash pouring into those churches, right? Those people are the mega-rich. Can't throw a stick around there without hitting money.

 

I imagine if you want to play the "god" lotto you might do alright but no better than anyone sitting in those toilets waiting for "god" to rain down money on them (or get rid of the gang problems or whatever). The glut of churches would indicate lots of money but many of the neighborhoods tell a different story. The same thing repeats in cities and states and countries all over the world. If "god" was sending down money for the asking then we'd all have pockets full of the stuff. Just because some guy and his brother caught a break doesn't mean anything.

 

This is also a bit older than what has been stated. It's more a resurgence of a thousands of years old belief that if you were rich (and powerful) that "god" (or the gods) were sending things your way and you had their favor. You could ask for things and get them. Your "stuff" was how "god" showed he was listening to you. Same old shit. Go buy a lotto ticket or head to a casino...you have better odds that those gods will pay off (they're a lot more fun and the latter have a buffet).

 

mwc

[upstarter]

It's not like the prosperity myths aren't just found in xtianity. Just a few weeks ago a friend was telling me all about "The Secret" and how great it is. She was "sending her intentions" out into the universe and telling the universe how much she needed to be rid of her debt. And lo and behold her dad phoned out of the blue. She doesn't have a great relationship with her dad, he hasn't had much to do with her from what I can tell. But he called and said, "How much is your student loan, I'm going to pay it off." Wow... The Secret works! Oh please!

 

Good things happen, shit happens, to good people, bad people, smart people and stupid people. That's life. Prayer doesn't bring money any more than sending your intentions to the universe or asking Santa (although I have it on good authority that the toothfairy brings money).

 

In the early days of my deconversion I went to church at times. Mostly because I found churches with great choirs or great choir directors and I love to sing. But eventually I couldn't live with my own hypocracy. I went to Catholic church for a while because a friend invited me to be in the choir, and I justified it because it wasn't really "true Christianity" anyway. hahaha.

 

Luckily I discovered I could sing in a choir that had nothing to do with church and I've been free from that pull for about 15 years.

 

Believe me there are hot guys outside of church. And money is just as likely to fall from the ceiling in a stripper bar as it is in church.

 

Heather

[Naughtyhamster]

Have you ever tried finding people online?

 

 

Don't worry I have plenty of online friends.

[Everglaze]

Well, I meant...in order to find a relationship with a guy.

[Grandpa Harley]

It's not like the prosperity myths aren't just found in xtianity. Just a few weeks ago a friend was telling me all about "The Secret" and how great it is. She was "sending her intentions" out into the universe and telling the universe how much she needed to be rid of her debt. And lo and behold her dad phoned out of the blue. She doesn't have a great relationship with her dad, he hasn't had much to do with her from what I can tell. But he called and said, "How much is your student loan, I'm going to pay it off." Wow... The Secret works! Oh please!

 

Good things happen, shit happens, to good people, bad people, smart people and stupid people. That's life. Prayer doesn't bring money any more than sending your intentions to the universe or asking Santa (although I have it on good authority that the toothfairy brings money).

 

{clipping bit I'm not responding to }

 

Heather

 

H,

 

As I said, American New Thought... Thoreau and Emerson are the progenitors of the ideas, which spawned such strange outpourings as Christian Science, and Theosophy... 'The Secret' seems to be a pretty harmless version of the idea... and if it makes folk happy, at least it's not Theism...

[Naughtyhamster]

Well, I meant...in order to find a relationship with a guy.

 

Well, I got back together with my tentacle porn loving, Trekkie, cute, Greek Orthodox ex-boyfriend a few months ago after surfing online for info leading to his e-mail. Does that count as finding a guy online?