Don't Know What To Think - Son Speaks To My Wifes Grandfather

[Jun]

I mentioned this in brief to some here in the chat room.

 

I'm not sure what to think of this, so I 'll just throw it out there for anyone to mull over or laugh and scoff at. I'm not surprised at those who will now say, "Poor fellow, his child must need treatment" - it certainly has run through my mind. I have been harsh on others here who claim to have seen ghosts, or "spoken" to "God" and now I'm confronted with this. Naturally I feel as though everything has been turned upside down.

 

Well here goes -

 

My wife has headed back home to Japan together with my son - and I'm stuck here in Oz to deal with some legal issues.

 

My wife and I are in contact via iChat (video conferencing) each night. A couple of days back my wife informs me that our son - he's 2½ - has been speaking with my wife's grandfather. But my wife's grandfather has been dead just on twenty years! My son knows his name, gave a description of him, and even told my mother-in-law her childhood nick-name that the grandfather gave her. There is no way my son could know any of these things. We have not discussed the grandfather or mentioned anything about him. No one even knew that my mother-in-law had a nick-name!

 

I don't believe in supernatural occurances - as any of you here know. And although open-minded, I'm not that open-minded. The whole idea that my son could be speaking with a ghost smacks in the face of the teachings of which I follow. I am of the opinion that once you die, you die. Dead. Dead. Dead. No spirit, no afterlife, no cosmic energy with the ability to communicate. I have been brushing it aside, and have told my wife where I stand on the topic. My family in Japan is acting as if I am the strange one and that it is natural to be talking to someone who is dead!

[pandora]

I'm sorry you're going through such a mind-fuck. I would be completely clueless as to what to even start to think as well.

 

Does your wife believe in ghosts or the afterlife? Maybe she's reading into things or projecting things onto your son.

[Dhampir]

It might be vaguely possible that he is speaking with the dead. But if supernatural occurrences seem unlikely, you might consider that impressions have been left on the child by people who didn't realize they were talking about those things in his presence, or forgot. Also, maybe memories that people can't consciously recall could be made as far back as gestation.

[Jun]

Pandora - My family in Japan does not believe in "ghosts" in the Western sense. As for projecting things onto my son, that was my first reaction - that they had either knowingly or unknowingly encouraged this.

 

Dhampir - No body has mentioned my wife's grandfather - not while my son has been alive.

 

My son has so far told us his (great-grandfathers) name, town he grew up in, nick-name of my mother-in-law, favourite tobacco, and favourite song. All of these things are are only known to my mother-in-law. In fact we checked with her sister in Niigata (the opposite side of Japan, and someone my son has never met) to find out if the tobacco was in fact his favourite brand - which it was.

 

I'm at a loss as to how to explain this. I've tried insisting that he has just picked up bits and pieces of conversation or something - but even I know that no-body would have been talking about the grandfather.

 

I've spoken to my son alone. He tells me that ojichan (old man) comes into the spare room and sits down to smoke his pipe. He talks to my son and plays with him!

 

Now I've thought that my son perhaps has a mental illness, bi-polar or something and I've considered having him checked out. But what kind of mental illness would allow such information to come forth? Things that most of us don't even know?

[Dhampir]

could be the other way around then. I'll clarify that later after some sleep.

[Tabula Rasa]

I mentioned this in brief to some here in the chat room.

 

I'm not sure what to think of this, so I 'll just throw it out there for anyone to mull over or laugh and scoff at. I'm not surprised at those who will now say, "Poor fellow, his child must need treatment" - it certainly has run through my mind. I have been harsh on others here who claim to have seen ghosts, or "spoken" to "God" and now I'm confronted with this. Naturally I feel as though everything has been turned upside down.

 

Well here goes -

 

My wife has headed back home to Japan together with my son - and I'm stuck here in Oz to deal with some legal issues.

 

My wife and I are in contact via iChat (video conferencing) each night. A couple of days back my wife informs me that our son - he's 2½ - has been speaking with my wife's grandfather. But my wife's grandfather has been dead just on twenty years! My son knows his name, gave a description of him, and even told my mother-in-law her childhood nick-name that the grandfather gave her. There is no way my son could know any of these things. We have not discussed the grandfather or mentioned anything about him. No one even knew that my mother-in-law had a nick-name!

 

I don't believe in supernatural occurances - as any of you here know. And although open-minded, I'm not that open-minded. The whole idea that my son could be speaking with a ghost smacks in the face of the teachings of which I follow. I am of the opinion that once you die, you die. Dead. Dead. Dead. No spirit, no afterlife, no cosmic energy with the ability to communicate. I have been brushing it aside, and have told my wife where I stand on the topic. My family in Japan is acting as if I am the strange one and that it is natural to be talking to someone who is dead!

 

 

Hmm... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this time of year is when Bon, the Japanese festival when the spirits of one's ancestors come to visit before going back to the other side.

(I think it was originally celebrated in October but got moved to August.) Since I lost my faith I'm a bit skeptical about an afterlife, but who knows?

Maybe the essence/whatever of Granddad decided to visit his grandson for a while. I wouldn't worry about it as long as "Granddad" doesn't tell your son to do something that would hurt him.

 

Edit: I forgot that Bon is in August by the Lunar Calendar. Going out on a limb here, Mexicans have a holiday called "The Day of the Dead" which is on Oct 30. Maybe since Grandad wasn't able to talk to your son during Bon, he took advantage of the thinning of the wall between this world and the next that comes around this time of year to pop back over and say hello to his grandson. Again, I have no idea if this is the case, but it's an idea.

[Jun]

Hmm... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this time of year is when Bon, the Japanese festival when the spirits of one's ancestors come to visit before going back to the other side.

(I think it was originally celebrated in October but got moved to August.) Since I lost my faith I'm a bit skeptical about an afterlife, but who knows?

Maybe the essence/whatever of Granddad decided to visit his grandson for a while. I wouldn't worry about it as long as "Granddad" doesn't tell your son to do something that would hurt him.

 

Edit: I forgot that Bon is in August by the Lunar Calendar. Going out on a limb here, Mexicans have a holiday called "The Day of the Dead" which is on Oct 30. Maybe since Grandad wasn't able to talk to your son during Bon, he took advantage of the thinning of the wall between this world and the next that comes around this time of year to pop back over and say hello to his grandson. Again, I have no idea if this is the case, but it's an idea.

 

Obon and the celebration of the deceased? You sound like my wife and her family.

 

Thinning of the wall between this world and the next? Are you serious?

 

I still can't imagine a "spirit" or "life force" coming back to say hello to it's great-grandson. There is more to this than "ghosts." That's just not logical.

[xandermac]

My son who is 12 now used to talk to dead soldiers when he was around 3. I was still a believer at the time and some things he would say were really creepy. Like you I do not believe in ghosts or spirits and I also believe dead is dead, but when a little kid tells you things that you know he couldn't have heard somewhere else its weird. My son doesn't remember all that stuff now. I hope you keep us posted on this.

[Vigile]

I've been wracking my brain and I just can't quite nail down the story I read, but this reminds me of something I've read before. I believe it may have been in Michael Shermer's book. Perhaps someone might remember the details better than I.

 

It seems there was a woman who believed she had a past life and when she went into a hypnotic trance she could speak French or Spanish and she knew details about things she had never been exposed to. It baffled researchers until it was discovered that as a toddler she had a nanny who spoke another language to her and told her the details she was able to somehow recall as an adult.

 

I don't know if this somehow pertains to your son, but I think it's rational that you are looking for more common explanations. If you dig deep enough you will probably find a perfectly reasonable explanation.

 

You might first look at who is baby sitting him and then figure out what bedtime stories they may have been telling him or what conversations they might have had in his vicinity.

[Jun]

You might first look at who is baby sitting him and then figure out what bedtime stories they may have been telling him or what conversations they might have had in his vicinity.

 

That would be me. So that rules that avenue out.

 

I think it's rational that you are looking for more common explanations. If you dig deep enough you will probably find a perfectly reasonable explanation.

 

Me too.

[Brother Jeff]

Jun,

 

I am skeptical of there being an afterlife, but I certainly haven't ruled out the possibility, based on experiences that me and members of my family have had. I have seen a ghost myself, and I have had experiences throughout my life that strongly suggests the existence of something beyond what our science can currently detect and explain. My uncle, for example, was visited by my grandmother just days before she died, and he lived several hundred miles away from her. It's been a good while since it happened, but I've had a few visits from her since she passed away. I did not see her, but I did feel her presence very strongly. My mother claims to have been visited by deceased relatives several times. Has that actually happened? I DON'T KNOW. I knew how to play guitar up until about age seven. My sister and I frequently spoke to each other in a foreign language when we were young - not babbling nonsense, but a real language that we both plainly understood, though my parents never identified which one it was. Does that indicate the reality of reincarnation? It seems to, but - I DON'T KNOW. Science can't explain things like that - yet - but that doesn't mean that they don't happen.

 

Your son may actually be communicating with your wife's grandfather. That seems to me, given the circumstances, to be the most probable explanation, even if it does seem unlikely and even if it definitely doesn't fit into your world view. You may be forced by circumstances to re-evaluate your world view. An afterlife and visits from the dead may not seem to be "logical", but if it is actually happening to your son, it would be highly illogical to deny the fact that what is happening to him is actually happening to him. It's disconcerting when things that our world view says can't happen do happen anyway. That appears to be what you are faced with. My input may not be what you want to hear (and it may earn me the wrath of the fundamentalist atheists here, which I've experienced before, unfortunately), but my personal opinion is that you should consider the possibility that your son's experience is quite real. There isn't any proof that there is an afterlife, but there isn't any proof that there isn't one, either.

 

As an aside here, I'm not sure what would be so terrible about there being a continuation of our existence after physical death and why atheists (don't know what label fits me, but "atheist" just doesn't) resist the possibility of it so strongly. I personally think it would be awesome if an afterlife of some sort is for real, as long as it's not unpleasant.

[Amethyst]

I too, am skeptical of the whole ghost thing. Is it possible your son saw pictures of his great grandfather and overheard relatives talking about him, perhaps in another room of the house? Sound waves travel far, and children can remember things that we wouldn't think they would.

[Clearview]

Is it possible that your mother-in-law has told him these things, or even planted the idea that her dead family member will visit your son if he wishes? That would be the most obvious conclusion to me.

[RIPw4]

Well, I feel that the evidence is there. Now its time to make a judgement. What is the simplest explanation?

 

I dont claim to know if there is an afterlife or not but, it sure sounds like your son is communicating with something that is not of this realm.

 

Perhaps he is talking to your wifes dead grandfather.

Perhaps memories were somehow imprinted into your child from your wife. (DNA and all that jazz)

Perhaps its just all a really really weird coincedence.

Who knows.

[lemon]

[

Hi Jun, I can somewhat identify with what is going on with you and your son. Supposedly, I used to talk with my grandmother who died before I was born and describe her to a T. Of course I don't remember too much. But, there is one thing that troubles me...when I was a christian, I twice visited a little church where two members would repeat what I was thinking verbatim (one was able to use the exact stress an intonation that I had thought of) during prayers. The experience still shocks me whenever I think about it. Sometimes, there are things that are just unexplainable.

[pitchu]

Jun, though I, myself, don't know what I think about this new field, epigenetics might hold some clues as to what's happening with your son:

 

http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/plus/sfg...epigenetics.dtl

[SWIM]

I mentioned this in brief to some here in the chat room.

 

I'm not sure what to think of this, so I 'll just throw it out there for anyone to mull over or laugh and scoff at. I'm not surprised at those who will now say, "Poor fellow, his child must need treatment" - it certainly has run through my mind. I have been harsh on others here who claim to have seen ghosts, or "spoken" to "God" and now I'm confronted with this. Naturally I feel as though everything has been turned upside down.

 

Well here goes -

 

My wife has headed back home to Japan together with my son - and I'm stuck here in Oz to deal with some legal issues.

 

My wife and I are in contact via iChat (video conferencing) each night. A couple of days back my wife informs me that our son - he's 2½ - has been speaking with my wife's grandfather. But my wife's grandfather has been dead just on twenty years! My son knows his name, gave a description of him, and even told my mother-in-law her childhood nick-name that the grandfather gave her. There is no way my son could know any of these things. We have not discussed the grandfather or mentioned anything about him. No one even knew that my mother-in-law had a nick-name!

 

I don't believe in supernatural occurances - as any of you here know. And although open-minded, I'm not that open-minded. The whole idea that my son could be speaking with a ghost smacks in the face of the teachings of which I follow. I am of the opinion that once you die, you die. Dead. Dead. Dead. No spirit, no afterlife, no cosmic energy with the ability to communicate. I have been brushing it aside, and have told my wife where I stand on the topic. My family in Japan is acting as if I am the strange one and that it is natural to be talking to someone who is dead!

 

well, dont just blow it off as not real, I have seen three ghosts in my life, two I have spoken with (NONE validated xtianity at all btw) Also saw a ghost of my dog. I also had undesputable real telepathic occurances in the past too.

 

I can't explain them, they fit in NO religion in their context, in fact the helped convince me xtianity is bullshit. Why?

 

Well one ghost was my grandma, who was devote catholic. No mention at all of god or jesus, just saying goodbye. If it were real, she would have been all over me (been an ex for over 30 years) she knew I was agnostic, yet not one word of preaching.

 

Also saw a dog I grew up with.. Uhm... animals aren't supposed to have souls eh?

 

So, do what I do, stand in awe at the mystery of life, but don't try too hard to figure it out, it will drive you crazy. Label it as " hmm that was cool" and let go of it. Works for me.

[Jun]

Brother Jeff, you have offered some insights that I must chew over it seems.

 

"There isn't any proof that there is an afterlife, but there isn't any proof that there isn't one, either."

 

And it seems that the more I look into this with my skeptics mind, the more I am convinced that I'm perhaps wrong about a great many things.

 

Is it possible your son saw pictures of his great grandfather and overheard relatives talking about him, perhaps in another room of the house? Sound waves travel far, and children can remember things that we wouldn't think they would

.

 

No. I thought this at first. There are no photos. No one had discussed the grandfather until my son retold his story, and then only when my son is not home. I've asked them not to mention anything in his presence since.

 

Is it possible that your mother-in-law has told him these things, or even planted the idea that her dead family member will visit your son if he wishes? That would be the most obvious conclusion to me.

 

Nope. Japanese don't behave like that.

 

Pitchu, interesting site thanks. I'll investigate some more.

 

Sometimes, there are things that are just unexplainable.

 

So it seems!

 

I'm still at a loss as to how to explain this. Thanks all.

[woodsmoke]

Wow. That's at once both creepy and utterly fascinating.

 

I recall a "memory" of my own from the time my family went to a pseudo-safari attraction in California. The details have fuzzed somewhat with time, but it's really rather spectacular to me how strong it's remained throughout my life.

 

They were in the old brown van we had when I was an infant, and which had the spare tire mounted on roof, driving through the lion area. They were in some kind of depression (a trench or stream, I think; that's one of the fuzzy details) which brought the roof easily within reach of the surrounding ground. As I'm sure most of you can see coming, one of the lions jumped on top of the van and started attacking the spare tire (for what reason, I couldn't begin to guess).

 

The thing is, my Mom was still pregnant with me at the time this happened, and I swear I'd never consciously heard the story before I relayed it to my family one day as a memory of my own. I'm entirely open to the possibility I did hear about it as a newborn, before I'd really become fully conscious, and somehow "absorbed"it then interpreted it internally as having happened as if I were there. I'd also believe it was somehow "imprinted" into my brain through my Mom's DNA, as RIP suggested. Whatever the (lack of) explanation, the fact remains it's one of the most vivid memories I have--and really the only one I have from before reaching the age of 2 or 3 and beginning to record solid, comprehensive memories which still remain with me.

 

It goes rather violently against my own reasoning to entertain the notion your son is truly and legitimately speaking with his deceased great grandfather, but the fact he's reporting such accurate and relatively insignificant information with no known material source is definitely something to make one stop and think.

[Dhampir]

As I was saying earlier, your son might be doing an unintentional John Edwards. What could be happening here is that your kid has gleaned a great deal more info in his meager 2 years than you or anyone realizes, though not necessarily about his family or his great grandfather.

 

Like John Edwards, who unlike your son is an intentional fraud, his insights "circle the drain" if you will, but have the ability to get really close to said drain. Your wife's family, in the fashion of the John Edwards guests, latch onto what he says when an item hits the mark, and interpret that as more than coincidence, while at the same time his imagination, which is vastly more powerful at that age than you can understand unless you remember that time in your life (I do), then receives that feedback and conjures images so detailed that they're indistinguishable from reality.

 

The point is, SOMEONE knows these details. It's not like no one knew, and when he started talking, someone pulled out a photo album and some filmstrip footage to confirm these otherwise obscure or enigmatic details. That means that it's possible that they gave him the info, even if it was AFTER he gave it to them first, you see? Convoluted, I know, but it's still more plausible than reincarnation or ghosts or whatever.

[Brother Jeff]

Convoluted, I know, but it's still more plausible than reincarnation or ghosts or whatever.

 

In your opinion.

[Jun]

I like what you are saying Dhampir. This is the avenue I've been following. I still can't discount what Brother Jeff has said and what others have experienced here.

 

There aren't any photos of Gramps though (destroyed during the war and a subsequent fire) and no one has described him to my son - or to me for that matter!

 

We tried a little experiment this morning. My mother-in-law asked my son what Great-gramps carried in his pocket. My son answered straight away, juzu! (Buddhist beads) He then said they are in his left pocket and there's a pipe in his jacket pocket! No body had told my son that!

 

[dr_funkenstein]

Mate, I'd be strongly suspecting your mother-in-law right now.

 

I know you said "Japanese don't behave that way" but come on... all the signs point to her. Your mother-in-law is the one validating everything the boy says.

 

If I were you I'd ask your son whether his grandmother has told him stories about the "old man".

[Jun]

Mate, I'd be strongly suspecting your mother-in-law right now.

 

I know you said "Japanese don't behave that way" but come on... all the signs point to her. Your mother-in-law is the one validating everything the boy says.

 

If I were you I'd ask your son whether his grandmother has told him stories about the "old man".

 

Some of what my son has been saying has had to be validated by my mother-in-laws sister as my mother-in-law didn't know. There aren't any "signs" pointing to her. She is very quiet about it all, not wanting to say anything. She hasn't spoken to my son directly - not alone.

 

I've asked my son if anyone has told him things, he says no. He's getting a bit upset by all this now as I am having a hard time believing him and my wife doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He's extremely honest as that's how we've taught him to be. I guess I'm just going to let it all drop - perhaps for another time. I'll be heading back to Japan in a couple of weeks, so I'll perhaps prode a bit when I get back home.

[RedPillAddict]

Now I've thought that my son perhaps has a mental illness, bi-polar or something and I've considered having him checked out. But what kind of mental illness would allow such information to come forth? Things that most of us don't even know?

 

I am "Bi-polar", and I assure you it doesn't cause hallucinations or anything like that...it is basically just uncontrollable mood swings...hence the name "Bi-polar".

 

I have heard tons of stories like these and they still baffle me. Everyone always just brushes it off and says that kids are told to say these things or that they overheard adults saying them. I think there is genuinely something to it, but I don't know what.

 

Sometimes it will be a relative, as it is with your son, and they describe things that even older family members didn't know about or have forgotten.

 

Sometimes it is random people that everyone just assumes is an imaginary friend that the child created.

 

There was a show on the science channel a couple years back where this 3 year old boy was having conversations with a man everyday in his backyard. The boy said the man was in the army, flew a plane, and could describe all these little details. The kid even knew what platoon(or whatever it's called) the guy was in when in the Army and the type of plane he flew. The family did some research and was able to figure out that it was a relative that died like 20 years prior.

In that case, skeptics were brushing it off as well saying the parents were teaching the kid what to say. But, this seems to be a pretty common thing. I hope somebody figures it out, cause it's damn creepy.