Guest Muna Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I have a friend who likes to take my son to church with her when we're visiting because she loves showing him off to her friends. He's almost 3, so he's in the nursery during the service itself. All they do in the nursery is play. Even if he was in the service, he wouldn't understand at this age. I'm wondering when I should stop allowing him to go. I don't want him learning things that disagree with what I believe, especially considering the harm I have experienced with Christianity. When would you stop the church visits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstarter Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 This is a tough question. I used to let my mom take my kids to church when we would visit, for just the reason you talk about. She liked to show them off to her friends. Especially my son, who was born with a lot of medical issues. My mother always said that everyone at church prayed for Quinn so much that they liked to see how much he has grown and how well he is doing. I've noticed that the past couple of times we've visited ( we only go there every couple of years as they are 3000 miles away), she hasn't asked to take them. I don't know if she senses that my husband and I aren't that keen or what. My kids are now 10 and 5. They are pretty savvy, especially my 10 year old. He can have discussions with his friends who go to church and he can separate what they tell him from what he knows we believe. He is very clear on the fact that we are not Christians, that Grandma is, and that Grandma believes things that we know aren't true. And we try not to hurt Grandma's feelings by contradicting her beliefs. I think the important thing is instilling in your children what you believe and why. You have to send them out into the world where they will encounter people with other beliefs, whether you keep them out of churches or not. If your son keeps going to church I think the important thing is to talk about what he hears there and why you don't believe the things he learns in church. If you are determined to keep him out of church, then I'd stop letting him go at whatever point they'd start "teaching" him things, ie. when nursery becomes Sunday School, or he's old enough to sit in the service and listen to the teachings. Certainly even at 3, I'd be worried if they were doing any kind of bible lessons. A 3 year old is ripe for learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPillAddict Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 When would you stop the church visits? immediately. Why can't her firends come over and visit when you are in town? Even though it is a good friend, I would still be skeptical of her trying to do a little "seed-planting". Your son will remember going to church to play and have a good time and may beg you to take him in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 I get a bad feeling about these visits. I'd stop them as quickly as possible, and replace them with some other sort of "play date". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknowing1 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 If your child were older I would say when they no longer want to go. Actually I don't think it wrong for older children to attend church if they want so they can see how the other half lives so to speak. But I think that if they attend church you should discuss what they heard with them and provide the other point of views or ask questions to get them to reason out what they heard so they can determine on their own how preposterous what they heard was. I did that with my son and he reached conclusions that I admit I had never even thought of. It was quite an enlightening experience. And enabled us to talk on levels that I never thought we would ever be able to. He's 15 now, gave up religion at 13 by his own choice and based on his own reasoning. I attended as well just so I could hear what was said and initiate the conversation with him. However your son is younger and as someone else said ripe for learning. I too would suspend those visits as soon as the bible teaching begins. Then resume later if you want him to hear both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhia Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 What age would I stop them - none, because I'd never let them go. I still have memories of being 3 years old an in a Mormon sunday-school (or whatever day they prefer, I can't remember), so I think it's bullshit to think that the nurseries are safe; especially as I used to be a nursery sunday school teacher, and there was definitely indoctrination and brainwashing even then, with Bible stories, teaching kids how to pray over their cheerios, and the constant children's worship music in the background. I think the only time I'd ever let my children into a church would be for a wedding (not even a funeral, 'cause those can be scary with the fundies), just so they could have an idea of what encompasses a stereotypical wedding. Then again, they could always just catch reruns of 7th Heaven (what an awful show, btw!). Goddamnit I totally hate churches! (Although I must admit that at times some church buildings are quite pretty - especially the old ones; I just don't like the concept of "church" at all. The pretty buildings should be made into museums, or great places to hear beautiful musicians play.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Goddamnit I totally hate churches! (Although I must admit that at times some church buildings are quite pretty - especially the old ones; I just don't like the concept of "church" at all. The pretty buildings should be made into museums, or great places to hear beautiful musicians play.) I agree. My old church has brick floors and walls, and a 40+ vaulted ceiling made of wood. Don't know the dimentions, but it was a large sancuary, could probally hold about 500 people. I used to play drums in the school band, and we'd play our concerts there. VERY easy to get that John Bohnam sound ala "When the Leve Breaks"! I'd love to buy it and turn it into a studio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I would not permit it. It would stop ASAP. Even though its the nursery, I will bet they are still teaching some kind of Bible stories or in some subtle way instilling indoctrination. Maybe I have been to too many fundy churches, and this one is different, but I wouldn't trust them. They have an agenda for the children, and we all know what it is. I say stop the brainwashing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ephesos Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I'd never have started them at all. Simple as that - why would you want a child to hear only hints of this nonsensical rubbish that corrupt organizations (e.g. churches) spew forth again and again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 They start brainwashing early in most churches. Even at 3, he is probably getting told Bible stories by someone. This is not harmless. It is early indoctrination. I would not take a child to church until they had been taught critical thinking skills first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I am a parent and would N E V A H let the nice little old lady next to us take Beastie to "SundaySkuLLe".. Period. Sunday is THE High Holy Day given to the making of yankee greenbacks into Smoke and Noise benficial to the Great God John Moses Browning! How DARE a lesser god be forced upon a child's mind???!??? Piffle! Oh, and fuckk'um for suggesting the church shit.. kFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPw4 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 When they are young you have every responsibility to raise them how you see is best suited for them. Which for you would be not going to church. But when they are older, you have every responsibility to let them make their own decisions. Perhaps not allowing your child to go is a bit harsh. Right now, I'd say stop letting them go. When they get a bit older, let them make their own decisions. Forcing any belief or non belief on a child is cruel in my opinion. Best of luck though. I could not handle being a father. Too much pressure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Bear in mind that the younger the mind the more vulnerable it is. The early years are the "formative" years. These things, though not remembered consciously, might plant subconscious seeds that may make it hard for them to resist later. Things will "ring true" because ONLY the subconscious remembers, the child, in older years, might think this "ringing true" is real, and not just re-surfacing subconscious memories. That's why we never swore, or anything like that in front of our kids, no matter what age. We did not want them to suddenly start swearing like a sailor thinking it "somehow feels right". Read some books on child psychology and you will see what I mean. Stop them NOW if you want to help them in the long run to stay free of this religion. Make all the excuses to them you can come up with, but if they are your kids, it is ultimately *your* choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Before I die.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I was 4, and in daycare at a fundie church. They passed out peppermints with the invocation "jesus provides for us all." I remember it clearly because I had only a few months earlier been diagnosed with Type I diabetes (in 1960 no less) and told that candy was a no-no. They start indoctrination seemingly at birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Hell, if they'd given me sweeties I'd still be a member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tealeaf Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Wow, these churches sound even more evil the more I read. What could happen to your kkids sounds strikingly similar to what happened with the Hitler Youth....and we all know how that turned out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I couldn't agree more with so many that have already posted here. A young child doesn't have the reasoning skills to differentiate between fantasy and reality. Particularly when it's being presented as fact by (supposedly) responsible adults. Teach a child to reason and think for themselves first. Even the "Vacation Bible School" stuff is a bad idea. It doesn't exist to instill a sense of morals into a kid. It exists to get them started early in life swallowing cute tales (complete with pictures) like Noah's Ark, David and Goliath, Joseph and the coat of many colors, and Daniel in the Lion's Den. And it ends up creating a little human being who turns into a guilt-ridden, paranoid adult who thinks that the ALMIGHTY GOD is reading his every thought and watching his every move. Not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I have a friend who likes to take my son to church with her when we're visiting because she loves showing him off to her friends. He's almost 3, so he's in the nursery during the service itself. All they do in the nursery is play. Even if he was in the service, he wouldn't understand at this age. I'm wondering when I should stop allowing him to go. I don't want him learning things that disagree with what I believe, especially considering the harm I have experienced with Christianity. When would you stop the church visits? Children, like adults should stay far away from abusive atmospheres at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I was 4, and in daycare at a fundie church. They passed out peppermints with the invocation "jesus provides for us all." I remember it clearly because I had only a few months earlier been diagnosed with Type I diabetes (in 1960 no less) and told that candy was a no-no. They start indoctrination seemingly at birth. Apparently jesus provides only for the healthy and able-bodied, and cannot heal diabetes in 1960. BTW, if you were 4 in 1960, you must be my age. In 1960, my mother was answering a lot of questions with "The Bible says so" or "When you are older you will understand." I lived to see that neither were true. One thing the Bible did get right was "Train up a child in the way that he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it." That is basically the same as "You can take the kid out of church but you can't take the church out of the kid." That is what I hear folks saying on here. Don't send the kid to church ever because that is the only way to keep the church from getting into the kid to begin with. Or, as some suggested, after their cricial thinking skills are sufficiently developed, it might be advisable to let them experience church if you are prepared to discuss it with them critically to help them critically evaluate the teachings. I don't think it's possible to live in a predominantly Christian land without the risk that one's child will try out or convert to Christianity. For that reason, I would suggest cricial exposure starting about age 7 and continuing either until they ask why waste the time or around age ten or twelve. I liked the post where the parent mentioned attending with the kid in order to monitor what the kid was exposed to. I also think it's really important to be sure the kids have a social group with whom to identify that is not church-based or church-related. If you don't want them to become religious, they should probably not participate of the church socials or in any way identify with the church kids. But if a child does identify of his or her own self, I would consider it wrong to force the breaking of those bonds. I'm thinking writing recipes for raising kids must be so much different from actually raising them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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