Testimonies

[sojourner]

I want to say, wow, Im so touched by so many of the testimonies I have read on this site. I am ashamed of myself in some ways. Especially the way Ive talked about faith on here.

 

Many of you came to the end of your faith thru great trials

 

That area should imo be required reading before we christians should post. Then perhaps people would realize whom we are talking to here.

 

I just want you to know that it broadened my respect for many of you that I found your testimonies, Im still working my way thru them.

 

I can better see why my words could cut

 

forgive me if they ever have

 

I really cried my little eyes out this morning at what many of you have walked thru

 

Im a spoiled brat compared to so many of you that Ive come to know thru your testimonies.

 

Came back to say the reason why I am posting this here is I dont feel right posting on peoples testimonies, after I mistakenly posted on one before reading the rules , blushing, and Ive read so many I wouldnt be able to address them all here one by one......so hence this post to you.

 

sojourner

[Mythra]

wow, sojourner.

 

My already (substantial) respect for you just went up even more.

 

Thank you.

 

I think you're something quite special.

[Mythra]

I have to say that you're one of a very tiny handful of christians to ever come in here and really try to understand us.

 

But you're right. We didn't just get here without major personal upheaval and anguish. For most of us it was an excruciating and terrifying ordeal.

 

And for many of us, the absence of God was confirmed in the last prayer we ever prayed:

 

"Please Jesus. Please. I don't want to fall away from you. I need your help. My Lord, my Savior. Give me more faith. I beg you. Amen."

[sojourner]

Mythra,

 

I tell you when I got to Hans , I lost it. I have never lived thru such tough things.

 

Its hard to even share now in that its so deep what you all have gone thru. You probably wont hear from me much. Im just kinda speechless now.

 

 

 

 

sojourner

[Mythra]

Most of our experiences seem trivial compared to Hans'. Very tough thing he and his family has gone through.

 

If Hans' son ever gets his bona fide miracle from God, there are quite a few of us who will rethink our apostacy.

[BlueGiant]

Thank you for reading, and doing what you can to understand. Admitting ones mistakes, that is something commendable, and better yet, shows that you learn. It is people like you that remind me that even conservative/evangelical/fundamentalist are human, and that anyone can be decent.

[Antlerman]

Its hard to even share now in that its so deep what you all have gone thru. You probably wont hear from me much. Im just kinda speechless now.

 

 

 

 

sojourner

Ahh, now I know what you meant before when you said you were speechless. I think I gave a link to mine in a post before that you may have read in there (it's in 3 separate parts spread throughout the whole thread). I think the one common thing you'll see in every single one of them is this: we were all sincerely seeking for answers and what we experienced in Christianity failed to meet these many and diverse major issues we all faced. These were issues of the heart ultimately, and it is not some lust to sin that took any of us away from our faith.

 

This is why you'll see such a violent backlash from member here whenever you see Calvinist-type Christian's coming in here and saying "you were never really Christians in the first place." Every one of us, and me included are highly offended by this. And the reason being is because it essentially dismisses everything we went through by calling it an insincere faith. It insults our integrity as genuine human beings. In short response to them, no one would go through the level of pain that we went through if we were never really sincere, true believers. It's insulting beyond insulting and betrays the emptiness of their hearts.

 

However, you my friend Sojourner are an angel. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your kind words.

[Mythra]

and it is not some lust to sin that took any of us away from our faith.

 

Well, maybe not just that.

 

 

What an ass I am. Crack a joke after that great post, A/M.

 

It is kind of refreshing though, to see a human being show up here dressed as a christian.

[R. S. Martin]

Depends how you define lust and sin. My people would define my need for intellectual stimulation, i.e. higher education, as a lust for worldly knowledge and the pride of life. That automatically translates into sin.

 

The refusal to acknowledge the supremacy of God is seen as the same. I draw on what I was taught before I deconverted. They believe that it is impossible not to worship something. If one does not worship God one worships the human being, i.e. oneself, according to that line of reasoning. That makes one an idolator. Naturally, this is the highest form of self-love, lust, pride, sin, etc

 

For people who will not comprehend the situation any other way, it is indeed sin and lust that took us away from our faith. However, when I saw the sincerity with which people on this forum, and people in real life, lived their lives outside of religion, I knew that that comprehension was wrong.

 

I am still trying to understand the mindset, such as that expressed by Charles Hodge (posted on the thread "I'm Reading Darwin"), in which the presupposition is not ever challenged. All of life is interpreted according to a certain world view come hell or high water. Hell can freeze over for all these people care. The Bible says hell is a lake of fire so it is. Fire cannot freese so hell never freezes over. End of story.

 

I am glad to see we finally have an outspoken Christian on here who has the comprehension to see beyond that limited mindset. I hope you will eventually speak again, sojourner. But I do understand your need to become better acquainted with the culture before saying a lot. I had to start in slowly, too. It's a different language in here. I've gotten to the place where I have to bite my tongue when I talk with Christians about religion. It kinda sneaks up on ya.

 

I don't think I changed that much on the inside. I just got comfortable expressing what is inside of me.

[sojourner]

Antlerman

 

Once again my friend you touched my heart and you always help me understand deeper peoples hearts here. Thanks for that

 

to everyone:

 

I have several thoughts Id like to share and I hope that I dont offend in any manner, Ive grown very attached to you all. Ive learned a lot and I feel my heart has been expanded here.

 

I had no preconceived ideas of what atheists or agnostics were before landing here. Unlike most I just never gave it much thought. So in saying that this has been where my understanding of athiests and agnostics has been formed. But just like always, I end up with the same conclusion I do everywhere , wow, more human beings! lol We are not different. We may share different experiances, beliefs and different thought processes in ways but thats about it. We still have a lot in common.

 

I have never gone thru the process of having everything I believe challanged, nor have I gone thru great tragedy as some of you that challanged my faith to its limits. I did go thru a season of having the eternal tormenting God and a hell challanged and it fell away into nothingness. But I was left with a good God unstained by those horrible teachings. That is as far as having my beliefs challanged has gone. However, I am in a season of having much more challanged right now. I cannot say how it will turn out but I will give myself to the challange as honestly as I can.

 

What I hope is that as I go thru this process you will allow me to test some things with your inputs as I need it to get another view point.

 

But, this is my quandry. I see a lot of anger in some folks here and I dont want to nurse or rather feed that in you all. I feel that anger is very destructive to us physically and can keep old wounds seething if you will. I do care about you and do not want to feed that anger in some of you that you are still working thru. That being said, if my presence here is not as profitable for you as it is for me, then its selfish of me to post here.

 

So Im working on what is best. Should I stay or should I go now.....as the song says.

 

If I go I want you all to know how thankful I am, how much I respect your honesty. I takes great courage to come to the end of faith and honestly lay it down. If Im right and there is indeed a very good God then I would also see that honesty pay off with God rather than not pay off as some believe. imo

 

love you all and Im thankful for you

 

sojourner

[R. S. Martin]

Whether you go or stay depends on you. On Pierac's thread about The Truth you can see some of the pros and cons about staying or leaving as put to him. As stated on every page, exChristian.net exists for the support of exChristians. Hopefully you understand that this includes the expression of much pent-up rage that cannot be released anywhere else on earth, and that this is healthy. The poison MUST come out. You need to decide what you can live with. As you observe the same individual over an extended period of time you will note that he or she does heal. However, new cases come on board. For this reason, there are always cases of rage being vented. Many people cannot handle so much anger and cannot stay for this reason. As a parting word, however, many of them feel a need to reprimand us for our need to vent and heal. These unenlightened souls only add to our need to vent our rage so much the more. We take consolation in the fact that "they know not what they do," and that perhaps one day they will be back as exChristians venting their own hurt and rage and disillusionment.

[SWIM]

We would like you to stay, obviously from our replies to you.

 

The big question is really, Do you want to stay?

 

Reading pretty much all of your posts since your arrival, I see an evolution occurring in your thinking. Are you threatening to leave because of sympathy for us, or sympathy for yourself? I think, taking a guess here, that you are getting close to a deconversion. I may be wrong, been wrong before.

 

Sometimes, in an effort to alleviate personal guilt or fear, we mask it in cloak of sympathy for others. Like "it would be better if I left" is more soothing to the mind, then, "I'm starting to get scared I will become one of them.".

 

I strongly suspect we will be reading your testimonial before long. But, not trying to push you, though I am guilty of trying to de-convert others at times, not so here in your case, I think you are doing that just fine on your own.

 

But are you ready for that? You may not yet be psychologically. Taking a break *might* be a good thing for you, don't move too fast. Take some time and read some of those books that you listed before. Take some time off, or take a vacation if you need it.

 

We will still be here for you. Take it slow and don't hurt yourself in the process.

[sojourner]

Well I am going to just take a break

 

my books should be in soon and so I will be sure and report to ya how that is going and ask questions I may have.

 

as I stand right now there are several things Ive gained here not to mention the new friendships. You may not agree with these but they are meaningful for me.

 

That living life as if you dont have an eternity can make you more passionate for life just as for others living life towards an eternity can make them passionate.

 

That I am not at all comfortable any longer with gaining spiritual truth from stories that have a brutal unloving God at the center of them. Therefore I am seeking to have this resolved.

 

That folks that have no God or it is an unknown can still live what I would term 'spiritual' lives , what ever term you would give it instead of spiritual, we still share much of the same experiances in our journey that cause us to be in awe of life. Alice, Antlerman, EvolutionBeyond and many others, those are the ones that come to mind right off, prove this wonderful knowing that we share in common to me.

 

That people that dont believe in a God or it is an unknown, can be just as loving as those that do. And on the flipside just as angry, in other words human, therefore, athiests and agnostics are really just people like the rest of the folks I know.

 

 

anyways, a few of my gleanings here

 

I will leave you with those till I feel led to post again.

 

thanks

 

sojourner

 

[lemon]

"love you all and Im thankful for you"

 

--sojourner

 

You indeed are very sympathetic to what exchristians go through. But I wonder if it is because you have not been tainted by the harmful teachings that so many of us have had to endure. In other words, I would not classify you as the fundie type who really needs to read the testimony section and understand the pain and anguish that many have gone through. I think that your background has better prepared you for what you've encountered here.

 

Hopefully soon, the stories of exchristians will be more widely heard.

[sojourner]

Thanks Lemon

 

You are correct, I have little background in fundimentalism and for that I sure am thankful.

 

But I read to get to know those of you that talk with me. I was touched deeply by your journeys.

 

sojourner

[sojourner]

Lemon

 

I wanted to add to my response to your post.

 

I have really been seeking how I can do my part to rid this world of fundimentalism, I think it is the most destructive thing there is no matter what its brand name is.

 

I think your testimonies will spread, and that is a good thing. My dream would be that folks could come together against this disease. I would love to see christians that have forsaken fundimentalism as well as those of other religions, athiests, agnostics all come together and speak out against this.

 

thats my hope and it was nourished and watered during my time here

 

sojourner

[crazy-tiger]

You are one of the few Christians that have visited here that have earned my respect, and someone's respect is one of the hardest things anyone can earn. (also the most valuable)

 

Although you may not know it, you are helping some here with the issues they still have with Christianity... namely, the understanding that there are those who are Christian but who aren't self-righteous, holier-than-thou, judgemental, arrogant 'tards who only wish to drag everyone back to their beliefs. Just by posting, by showing the person that you are, you help us to see a better side where anger and comdemnation are absent.

 

For that, I thank you... and hope that you will stay to help others on their journey.

[Antlerman]

What I hope is that as I go thru this process you will allow me to test some things with your inputs as I need it to get another view point.

 

But, this is my quandry. I see a lot of anger in some folks here and I dont want to nurse or rather feed that in you all. I feel that anger is very destructive to us physically and can keep old wounds seething if you will. I do care about you and do not want to feed that anger in some of you that you are still working thru. That being said, if my presence here is not as profitable for you as it is for me, then its selfish of me to post here.

 

So Im working on what is best. Should I stay or should I go now.....as the song says.

And offering other view points is what I do best. Here's my heartfelt thoughts for your consideration.

 

One of the things I've seen as a long-time member of this site is that the face of Christianity that is seen here is normally the 'we're right and you're wrong and in danger of hell' crowd. What happens more often than not is that all of Christianity and Christians get lumped into this pot of the fundamentalist flavor. I personally feel that hearing from people who have faith that are able to conduct themselves as human beings (which you have been a brightly shining example of this here), that the focus of people being so upset with 'Christianity', becomes more appropriately focused on fundamentalists.

 

I feel it's healthy to have a sincere voice here who is able to truly experience and show compassion towards us without any ulterior motives at all, which is typically what we have not experienced with the Christians who come to save us. The fundamentalist/evangelical 'loves' you because their supposed to, not because they feel anything real in their hearts. All of us can sniff that out in a heart beat and reject it angrily because it's insincere and insulting to us. It is to any human being. But when someone like you comes along, which is a rare gem around here, I feel it helps to open us up to people being able to have differing beliefs and still be a genuine loving human being.

 

I guess if it's hard for you to have someone use you as a symbol of everything negative they feel about Christianity, you can maybe try to soften the tone in a kind response, "but I'm not like those religious Christians. I hope to know the person themselves, not their category, and that's what I hope from everyone here towards me. I'm hear to learn and know you." I think something like that should deflect a lot of that. And like I said before, my friend OM went through the initial 'baptism of fire' and I now know of no one who disrespects her. (OM... if you're reading this, it would be wonderful for a word of encouragement from you).

 

I feel you add considerable value to this site, and I would see that active participation would offer so much more value to everyone for things to come to light through discussion being brought to the table with what only you as a unique person can bring. I value that very much.

[sojourner]

TY CrazyTiger

 

You all really do have my respect too

 

I think we can say we want the same thing

 

We want our children to have a safer place to grow up

 

 

 

sojourner

[sojourner]

TY Antlerman

 

I dont have time to respond right now, on my way out but wanted to acknowledge I read your post and thank you for it

 

see you guys later

 

I still could not help but read here even if I wasnt posting much

 

dont think I would be able to just leave and not even read, impossible at this point!

 

sojourner

[lemon]

Lemon

 

I wanted to add to my response to your post.

 

I have really been seeking how I can do my part to rid this world of fundimentalism, I think it is the most destructive thing there is no matter what its brand name is.

 

I think your testimonies will spread, and that is a good thing. My dream would be that folks could come together against this disease. I would love to see christians that have forsaken fundimentalism as well as those of other religions, athiests, agnostics all come together and speak out against this.

 

thats my hope and it was nourished and watered during my time here

 

sojourner

 

In due time. Once I get myself together so to speak, I plan to do as much as I can to get more exchristian stories out there. I'm a freelance writer (although I've done mostly fashion related writing). At any rate, I'm certain there is something I can do to help.

[sojourner]

What I hope is that as I go thru this process you will allow me to test some things with your inputs as I need it to get another view point.

 

But, this is my quandry. I see a lot of anger in some folks here and I dont want to nurse or rather feed that in you all. I feel that anger is very destructive to us physically and can keep old wounds seething if you will. I do care about you and do not want to feed that anger in some of you that you are still working thru. That being said, if my presence here is not as profitable for you as it is for me, then its selfish of me to post here.

 

So Im working on what is best. Should I stay or should I go now.....as the song says.

And offering other view points is what I do best. Here's my heartfelt thoughts for your consideration.

 

One of the things I've seen as a long-time member of this site is that the face of Christianity that is seen here is normally the 'we're right and you're wrong and in danger of hell' crowd. What happens more often than not is that all of Christianity and Christians get lumped into this pot of the fundamentalist flavor. I personally feel that hearing from people who have faith that are able to conduct themselves as human beings (which you have been a brightly shining example of this here), that the focus of people being so upset with 'Christianity', becomes more appropriately focused on fundamentalists.

 

I feel it's healthy to have a sincere voice here who is able to truly experience and show compassion towards us without any ulterior motives at all, which is typically what we have not experienced with the Christians who come to save us. The fundamentalist/evangelical 'loves' you because their supposed to, not because they feel anything real in their hearts. All of us can sniff that out in a heart beat and reject it angrily because it's insincere and insulting to us. It is to any human being. But when someone like you comes along, which is a rare gem around here, I feel it helps to open us up to people being able to have differing beliefs and still be a genuine loving human being.

 

I guess if it's hard for you to have someone use you as a symbol of everything negative they feel about Christianity, you can maybe try to soften the tone in a kind response, "but I'm not like those religious Christians. I hope to know the person themselves, not their category, and that's what I hope from everyone here towards me. I'm hear to learn and know you." I think something like that should deflect a lot of that. And like I said before, my friend OM went through the initial 'baptism of fire' and I now know of no one who disrespects her. (OM... if you're reading this, it would be wonderful for a word of encouragement from you).

 

I feel you add considerable value to this site, and I would see that active participation would offer so much more value to everyone for things to come to light through discussion being brought to the table with what only you as a unique person can bring. I value that very much.

 

Thank you I am very encouraged by your post to me! All I want so much is to really BE love and to quit judging people. I want to leave all that judging stuff to ummmmm well to God. lol sorry dont know how else to put it as Im still a God gal here.

 

I want you all to know that lots of folks are moving away from fundimentalism on the other side too. Many are landing in the athiest, agnostic camp as you can see but many are also landing in the universalist or unitarian camp as well. Its good to me to see so many people being free'd fom fear where ever they land they are getting free from that whole fundamentalist mentality.

 

I am very encouraged by that! I love freedom from that old fearful stuff however it comes and where ever we land. Perhaps somehow we can all find each other, come together and stand against that fundie mentality till we see it melt away!

 

wouldnt that be amazing?

 

sojourner

[dr_funkenstein]

Thank you I am very encouraged by your post to me! All I want so much is to really BE love and to quit judging people. I want to leave all that judging stuff to ummmmm well to God. lol sorry dont know how else to put it as Im still a God gal here.

You know, all I want is to really BE confusion! Why? I dunno... you just set the trend by wanting to BE an emotion so I thought I'd join in.

 

I want you all to know that lots of folks are moving away from fundimentalism on the other side too. Many are landing in the athiest, agnostic camp as you can see but many are also landing in the universalist or unitarian camp as well. Its good to me to see so many people being free'd fom fear where ever they land they are getting free from that whole fundamentalist mentality.

 

Out of the frying pan...

 

I am very encouraged by that! I love freedom from that old fearful stuff however it comes and where ever we land. Perhaps somehow we can all find each other, come together and stand against that fundie mentality till we see it melt away!

 

wouldnt that be amazing?

 

sojourner

 

Liberal and moderate christians create the environment for fundies to flourish. It's a slippery slope. Once you convince someone that there is an invisible man in the sky who loves everyone and wants to be your friend (but needs your money) then it's not far from there to arguing with someone else who believes in a slightly different sky daddy... and it's not far from there for someone to point to a verse that says that their sky daddy wants them to put people who worship other sky daddies to death.

 

In the immortal words of John Lennon: "Imagine no religion..."

[Antlerman]

I want you all to know that lots of folks are moving away from fundimentalism on the other side too. Many are landing in the athiest, agnostic camp as you can see but many are also landing in the universalist or unitarian camp as well. Its good to me to see so many people being free'd fom fear where ever they land they are getting free from that whole fundamentalist mentality.

 

I am very encouraged by that! I love freedom from that old fearful stuff however it comes and where ever we land. Perhaps somehow we can all find each other, come together and stand against that fundie mentality till we see it melt away!

 

wouldnt that be amazing?

 

sojourner

True words. Amen.

 

Liberal and moderate christians create the environment for fundies to flourish.

How about liberal and moderate atheists? Do we create the enivroment for fundamentalist atheists? I don't think so. I think it's a matter of personality types. Take a read through these 10 pages of discussion I had on this topic here: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=16864

[dr_funkenstein]

How about liberal and moderate atheists? Do we create the enivroment for fundamentalist atheists? I don't think so.

That's right... because we don't hold a positive assertion of belief. You can't have fundamentalist atheism, because atheism isn't a set of beliefs - it's the lack of one belief. Equally there are no liberal or moderate atheists because once you disbelieve in god, that's it! How do you gradiate between different levels of disbelief in god?