lemon Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Apologies if he has been discussed before. I was watching a news segmant (headline news channel) about Joel Osteen's new book, Become a better you. According to the segmant, his 7 principles contain nothing about Jesus (which is a requirement in order to be considered real christianity by fundies). This all makes him a complex character in my eyes. I really don't know how to approach his message as far as it being christian or not. What I am wondering is, how do ex-christians generally perceive someone like Joel Osteen? I.e. do you feel that his "message" is harmful like Pat Robertson's? Would you consider his teachings to be an alternative to christianity? Before leaving the faith, I pretty much followed the fundie view of this man. Now, I am not so sure. To make a long story short, I am very interested in reading the thoughts of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I attended Lakewood Church a few times back before Joel's father Croaked in the Spook. Joel has taken what John Osteen started, and turned it into a huge, very successful mega-church. I don't know a whole lot about what Joel teaches, but I think it's more about "feel-good" religion and positive believing/thinking/acting than it is about traditional Christianity. I'm sure that he promotes false ideas about the bible and that he opposes science by denying the reality of evolution, but the "feel good" message I really don't have a problem with. I may even decide to check out his new book. That's my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I never knew he existed until a few weeks ago when Ed Schultz was talking about him. So I've watched Pretty Boy Joel a couple of times since then, just to see what he was about. Personally, I think he's all about selling books and CD's to line his pockets. Have you seen the place he preaches in? It's huge! An old stadium I believe, and talk about decked out! Everything from plush seating to a huge spinning gold globe behind the pulpit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I never knew he existed until a few weeks ago when Ed Schultz was talking about him. So I've watched Pretty Boy Joel a couple of times since then, just to see what he was about. Personally, I think he's all about selling books and CD's to line his pockets. Have you seen the place he preaches in? It's huge! An old stadium I believe, and talk about decked out! Everything from plush seating to a huge spinning gold globe behind the pulpit. Religion is lucrative! We all know that. Yeah, the church is the former home of the Houston Rockets basketball team. Of course he wants to line his pockets, but I think he genuinely wants to help people too. I don't totally disrespect him the way I do most other televangelists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemon Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 If anyone is interested, the Headline News Channel will be offering a feature regarding the backlash he receives from evangelicals at 5pm EST. It's channel 63 in my neck of the woods and but it would be different in various parts of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 If anyone is interested, the Headline News Channel will be offering a feature regarding the backlash he receives from evangelicals at 5pm EST. It's channel 63 in my neck of the woods and but it would be different in various parts of the country. LOL, nothing like watching xtians maiming and killing their own. Too bad I won't be home from work until after 5:30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grizzle Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Yeah, I definitely remember Osteen being bashed a couple of times by the board of my former church back when I ran in those circles... he seems to be a damn sight less dangerous than Robertson and the others, but then again, his message isn't any more true than Robertson's. They both take a Bible that already doesn't make sense, and throw in their own crap to suit their own tastes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 I watched this dude one time while I was channel surfing. I stopped for a couple of minutes and thought, 'Damn! This dude is a total fruitcake.' Then I heard him say, "GOD has YOUR picture on his refrigerator!" After that, that pretty much removed all doubt, in my mind, about his fruitcakiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Ah yes. God's little Cheshire Cat. What's up with the little mantra that Osteen does at the start of his services? [bracketed insertions provided by the insights of Mythra] "Okay, now everyone hold up your bibles - This is my Bible. I am what it says I am [totally filthy, sinful, feculant, verminous, with no redeeming qualities of my own], I have what it says I have [ and I'm just a little pissed that each and every week I gotta give Joel 10% of it], I can do what it says I can do [well, except for that moving mountains and drinking poison crap]. Today I’ll be taught the Word of God. [well, at least the nice cuddly parts] I boldly confess my mind is alert, [ hey - hurry up, Joel. The Packers are playing the Redskins today, for Chrissakes] my heart is receptive, [ooh. Check out the dress that Mrs. Johnson has on] I’ll never be the same, [if only everyone could be more like me] in Jesus name.†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Ah yes. God's little Cheshire Cat. Yes. Smiling all the time. Can anyone really be that happy? There must be something wrong. Does this person ever have any problems? We know money isn't one of them. He just reminds me of the Joker. I have never been able to view more than 5 minutes of Osteen. It is the feel-good, entertainment, Crystal-Cathedral type of xianity that seems appeal to most Americans. I just don't understand it. Is it really all that entertaining? It seems to be like a drug, but a person must be stupid or willfully ignorant for this drug to work. Its God, the American flag and football. Maybe its due to the small number of people in this country willing to read a book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemon Posted November 17, 2007 Author Share Posted November 17, 2007 Ah yes. God's little Cheshire Cat. Yes. Smiling all the time. Can anyone really be that happy? There must be something wrong. Does this person ever have any problems? We know money isn't one of them. He just reminds me of the Joker. I have never been able to view more than 5 minutes of Osteen. Personally, I don't believe that he or anyone else is happy all the time. It's all part of the game, IMO. For him, it's working. I have no doubt he's got a fortune somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grizzle Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Ah yes. God's little Cheshire Cat. It is the feel-good, entertainment, Crystal-Cathedral type of xianity that seems appeal to most Americans. I just don't understand it. Is it really all that entertaining? It seems to be like a drug, but a person must be stupid or willfully ignorant for this drug to work. Its God, the American flag and football. Maybe its due to the small number of people in this country willing to read a book. If the xians would be able to read a certain book that they claim to base their lives on, well, then Joel Osteen would *certianly* not be in business anymore. Churches have been filled with the TL;DR (Too Long; Don't Read) culture that seems to be infecting the rest of the country... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 If the xians would be able to read a certain book that they claim to base their lives on, well, then Joel Osteen would *certianly* not be in business anymore. How true, Grizzle. And I love your Avatar. Army of Darkness, right? Great movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 I don't trust Joel Osteen or any of his ilk. Never watched him on tv but if I remember correctly I did see his papa. A few years back I researched various megachurches online. What struck me was the pictures of the wives of the mega preachers. The wives all had these appropriately meek and submissive happy looks. I found it disgusting. It seemed they were saying, "Hey look at me! I am your model meek and submissive wife and I am HAPPY! If I can do it you can do it!" I could never tell if they really were happy and really did believe it, or if they were just part of their husbands' campaigns. Those pics seemed more like ads for their husbands mega sermons than anything else. I'm sure I saw Joel and his wife, too. Another part that stuck in my craw was the role these women had in the churches. They had conspicuous-by-their-absence roles in the church. If their names and pictures had not appeared at all on the websites one might not have given it a second thought. But their names and pictures appeared so conspicuously as though they really mattered. But the way they mattered was that they were relegated off to a Sunday School class of women or children while the Husband was on TV at the Head of the Church. His Voice went throughout the Land. Of her it is said, "The hand that rocks the craddle is the hand that rules the world." The problem with that statement is that it needs to be said. If it were actually true, it would not have to be stated. When tens of thousands of people unanimously turn on their TVs at a certain time each week to hear a certain Man's Voice, no one need ask who is influencing the thought of those tens of thousands of people. When a tiny fraction of that population attends the Sunday School of that Man's wife at a certain time each week we know that a tiny fraction of that population is influenced by his wife's thought. However, we don't know for sure that even the Sunday School lesson is her own thought; quite possibly it reflects His Thought. After all, these Preachers believe that Woman was created as a help meet for Him. Not help MATE but help MEET. Just look at the bold look on his face compared to hers. I think the Bible says for him to be humble, too, and to honour his wife. I'm waiting to see that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grizzle Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 After all, these Preachers believe that Woman was created as a help meet for Him. Not help MATE but help MEET. Just look at the bold look on his face compared to hers. I think the Bible says for him to be humble, too, and to honour his wife. I'm waiting to see that happen. I don't want to say too much on this, for risk of spinning it into another completely different thread, but... I currently attend a xtian school (I'm in the process of 'deconverting,' although I don't really like that word)... one of the most disgusting things about this place is what women see as their roles. Most of the girls (I use the term girls consciously, since most of them aren't mature enough mentally to be women, due to being babied by their parents) here think that their role in life is to be the person standing behind a man, having his children and keeping his house. My fiancee rooms with a girl who feels that it is her God-given duty to be a stay-at-home mom for her entire life. Everybody that says Christianity is becoming more progressive when it comes to the rights of women is full of shit... just take one step on this campus. Anyway. Back to the main thread of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artur Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 After all, these Preachers believe that Woman was created as a help meet for Him. Not help MATE but help MEET. Just look at the bold look on his face compared to hers. I think the Bible says for him to be humble, too, and to honour his wife. I'm waiting to see that happen. I don't want to say too much on this, for risk of spinning it into another completely different thread, I started a thread here using my post and yours to provide context. It's in rants and replies so now you can rant as you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 ...So I've watched Pretty Boy Joel a couple of times since then, just to see what he was about. Ah yes. God's little Cheshire Cat. Yes. Smiling all the time. Can anyone really be that happy? There must be something wrong. He’s simply bizarre to watch. That light, airy voice that one can only associate with the lobotomized or the seriously stoned... So am I the only one who thinks he should be decorating bedrooms on Oprah?!?! Mongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 I don't know the guy except from a pic I saw yesterday that's going to haunt me for times to come, and from the things people said here. Seems like a person who hasn't a clue in the world who he is or what he's here for--nothing but a robot highly trained to keep the church pews filled, line his own pockets, and keep his wife and kids living in luxury. More than one member here at exC has mentioned asking Osteen for help or advice or answers and never hearing back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennywocky Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 ...Then I heard him say, "GOD has YOUR picture on his refrigerator!" omg.... the amusement I got from reading this has been worth the time I took to read this thread! ...A few years back I researched various megachurches online. What struck me was the pictures of the wives of the mega preachers. The wives all had these appropriately meek and submissive happy looks. I found it disgusting. It seemed they were saying, "Hey look at me! I am your model meek and submissive wife and I am HAPPY! If I can do it you can do it!" I could never tell if they really were happy and really did believe it, or if they were just part of their husbands' campaigns. From the years I have spent in Christian circles and around conservative Christian women, yes, I think consciously they actually do believe it. It's their worldview and they do not see outside of it. It's like living in a nicely furnished room for your whole life and thinking it's wonderful, while not realizing there is a whole world outside that is far better. Sue Monk Kidd's "The Dance of the Dissident Daughter" is an excellent book in regards to a woman's departure from patriarchal religion into the wider world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kwai-Chang Kate Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 So am I the only one who thinks he should be decorating bedrooms on Oprah?!?! Mongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ComfortablyConfused Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 So am I the only one who thinks he should be decorating bedrooms on Oprah?!?! Mongo Olsteen isn't so sweet. I could be mistaken, correct me if I am, but it was at his Lakewood Church that a gay-veteran who passed away and his family who attended this church wanted to hold the funeral there and all the arrangements seemed to go fine...until somone saw a video montage that showed an image of the veteran's partner and the church cancelled the funeral ceremony. The church denied the family their funeral ceremony because even in their "feel-good christianity" their hatred toward gays is just as strong as Pat Robertson and the likes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Olsteen isn't so sweet. Oh - I don't know. Nobody hates gays so openly as a pastor who lives in the closet himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojourner Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Ah yes. God's little Cheshire Cat. What's up with the little mantra that Osteen does at the start of his services? [bracketed insertions provided by the insights of Mythra] "Okay, now everyone hold up your bibles - This is my Bible. I am what it says I am [totally filthy, sinful, feculant, verminous, with no redeeming qualities of my own], I have what it says I have [ and I'm just a little pissed that each and every week I gotta give Joel 10% of it], I can do what it says I can do [well, except for that moving mountains and drinking poison crap]. Today I’ll be taught the Word of God. [well, at least the nice cuddly parts] I boldly confess my mind is alert, [ hey - hurry up, Joel. The Packers are playing the Redskins today, for Chrissakes] my heart is receptive, [ooh. Check out the dress that Mrs. Johnson has on] I’ll never be the same, [if only everyone could be more like me] in Jesus name.†Mythra you should do stand up, you always crack me up big time. i have to admit this was a very funny thread sojourner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Perhaps I should have issued a disclaimer ahead of time. It could be construed as more than a little autobiographical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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