Five Questions To Ask An Atheist

[Mythra]

Papal_Condemnation__Sentence__of_Galileo_in_1633.htm

 

I love how modern day christians think that the bible proves anything scientific. How do they do this while ignoring 2,000 years of history?

 

The "science" in the bible is what ushered in the dark ages.

 

The ancient greeks and egytpians understood more about the nature of the universe than people did in 1500 CE

 

It took brave men like copernicus and galileo to challenge the ideas in the bible and get us thinking in new directions.

 

Attached is the papal condemnation of Galileo during his trial. This is what the scientific wisdom in the bible led people to believe.

[Mythra]

Vatican_sorry_for_the_inconvenience.htm

 

In 1992, the vatican finally issued an apology to Galileo. Here is an article on it.

[Mythra]

I think God is the result of intelligent design. The same man made intelligence that brought us an earth shaped like a pizza.

 

Pizza? that might go good with that cold beer Nivek was offering.

 

Nivek - dude! Don't drink my beer, I'm on the way over with pizza

[Ouroboros]

From: IvyFairy:

I have never read a single post, book, and/or paper...nor have I ever read a scientific hypothesis that anything came from absolute nothingness.

I just wanted to poke you with this because we have a history of doing it.

 

Actually some of them do say it came from Nothing, but they don't claim an "Absolute Nothing", like you said. They use the word a little too easily, and don’t realize people misunderstand what they’re saying.

 

What they mean with Nothing is not the same as when we say "nothing". The Singularity is an ordered and structured no-time, no-space "object". So it has no time, no space, then it is nothing, but it still exists. That's why people don't get the Nothing concept.

 

So what I was trying to say is, that some scientists use the word Nothing too loosely and people misunderstand and just don't "get it". It's just like the word Theory have a different meaning in science than regular casual talk.

 

I recommend the book: The Book of Nothing, by John D. Barrow

It's a book only about vacuum and singularity. It also has the four different synopses for what happened "before" big bang.

 

Another book I recommend is: The Hole in the Universe, by K.C. Cole.

Chapter 7 talks about “From Nothing to Something”.

[pitchu]

Welcome to the forums, Ascendo.

[IvyFairy]

No offence, Ivy, I know you were just posting what you found!

 

 

Yup and that's all I did. I saw the bookmark there at the church and couldn't believe the silliness/stupidity of it. I had to share with the board just to get all of your views on it. If nothing more just for a laugh.

[dogmatically_challenged]

So effing what?

 

So effing what?

 

So effing what?

 

What does this have to do with anything about where you are at now?

 

Why should I give a flaming fuck through a rolling 747 tire about your opinion?

 

BFD, mickey mouse reasoning abounds, your faith is as useful as my reasoning, and I could care half a shit less than nothing about how I ended up here.

 

My tinfoil cap is screwed on tight, and your arguments are a waste of time...

 

"Want a beer?" "You don't? Can I have yours?"

 

kL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pannism: Knowing what we know if you know what I mean.

 

The "news" on the idiot box

 

or knowing how to resuscitate the victims of hard knocks?

 

All the talk and no solutions yet?

 

or keeping alive the unforunate so families won't fret?

 

Pannism: Knowing what we know if you know what I mean. Dealing with what life pans out and not getting creamed.

[Amethyst]

I found a bookmark that they have for people in the Jr. High and College meeting room.

 

What are all of your thought on this bookmark that this Christian Church is passing out?

 

We should make up our own bookmark and pass it out.

[Amanda]

360 years later is a bit late, I dare say!  Maybe they did a miracle and raised him from the dead to issue their apology.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You are too cool!!! Sophisticated... yes!

[BlueGiant]

If you want some ammo to fire back at these clownshoes, you definately came to the right place. Sorry it took me so long to hit this topic.

 

The failed attempt at using science here is staggering. Taken from first post. Snipped to save on space.

 

 

1. How did the Universe Originate?

 

Well this is a good and open question, and points to an even better one: "Did the universe even need to have a beginning?" There are what are known as "zero boundary condition" models (I believe Hawking was working on one at one point).

 

Many atheists believe matter and energy originated from nothing. But the First Law of Thermodynamics states "matter and Energy is neither created nor destroyed," thus atheists violate this Law of Science.

 

Ok, let's start here with the first and foremost fuck-up they made: Conservation of Matter and Conservation of Energy are not the First Law of Thermodynamics. The First Law only states that heat will move from an area of greater heat to lesser (in otherwords cold things warm up). Terminology asside, this is a) a theory (all laws are in the scientific sense) not created or destroyed even in the Big-Bang model. The rest of it is a straw man and a false dilemma and easily handled already. The missed term, however, is even more embarassing to them and demonstrates that the person who wrote this either has no clue what they are talking about, and/or has the mental capacity of a rock.

 

2. How did Order Originate?

 

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics states a system (like the Universe) will go from Order to Disorder over time. But atheists argue the Universe went from chaos and disorder (a big bang) to an orderly Universe.

 

First note the lack of any other explanation here, or any supporting facts: just the use of "they wrong, so we must be right." In otherwords, a whole lotta bullshit. As for order coming out of disorder, that is an inevitable result as ordered states are merely a subset of disordered states (in otherwords, a special kind of disorder), that happen to aslo be energetically favorable, by the same laws of Thermodynamics. Once in that state the system will tend to stay there, acting as a seed, and if one of the randomly occuring ordered states also happens to be self-organizing (orders more things that come in contact with it)...I think the implication is obvious here.

 

 

<snippage>

 

However the Law of Biogenesis and the Cell Theory states: "Life only comes from life." Thus atheists violate these foundations of Biology.

Foundation of Biology, eh? Then why did I never hear of this law when I was getting my degree in Biochemistry, oh yeah! it doesn't exist! And the original law that they are referring to is a disproven one that organic molecules only come from life. Well I think Dow, Monsanto, etc. have a few things to say about that...

 

4. Was there a Cause for People?

 

The Law of Causality states: "Every effect must have a cause." Atheists would argue there was a cause for a pencil, but they argue there was no cause for people. Thus atheists violate the Law of Causality.

 

Of course there is a cause, genes are made for survival, and people are generally pretty good at doing that, ergo, people provide a nice vehicle for genes. Never heard of a Law of Causality either, maybe in philosophy though...

 

5. Everyone knows Mount Rushmore was the result of intelligent design. Do you think the human body is the result of intelligent design?

 

Laws of science show that it takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to believe in God.

 

Ok kiddies, first how do you get from the question to the answer here? Considering that everything above is laughably easy to debunk, this tends to fall apart. Now, I will let them assert that the human body is a product of intellegent design, in fact I wil let them argue good design. I will then point out examples of bad design (if we can identify good design, then it follows that we can identify bad design...). Kind of shoots the perfection of their creator right in the forehead. I'll give you a start, thogh there are many more examples: the appendix, an organ whose only appearent purpose is to kill you. You may also want to check out the blood vessels in the head of the femur. poor supply to the area is easy to disrupt, making a fracture at the head of the hip a rather nasty thing. This second one came from an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in lower extremity, who has over 25 years of experience in the field.

 

Happy hunting. May you free a few more minds. If this is the best they can throw at you, then the clowns are barely worth anyone's time.

[Lunar Shadow]

We should make up our own bookmark and pass it out.

 

 

Absolutly......

 

 

 

if some one makes a list Ivy and I will be more than happy to distibute them

[Lunar Shadow]

If you want some ammo to fire back at these clownshoes, you definately came to the right place.  Sorry it took me so long to hit this topic.

 

The failed attempt at using science here is staggering.  Taken from first post.  Snipped to save on space.

1.  How did the Universe Originate?

 

Well this is a good and open question, and points to an even better one: "Did the universe even need to have a beginning?"  There are what are known as "zero boundary condition" models (I believe Hawking was working on one at one point). 

 

Many atheists believe matter and energy originated from nothing.  But the First Law of Thermodynamics states "matter and Energy is neither created nor destroyed," thus atheists violate this Law of Science.

 

Ok, let's start here with the first and foremost fuck-up they made: Conservation of Matter and Conservation of Energy are not the First Law of Thermodynamics.  The First Law only states that heat will move from an area of greater heat to lesser (in otherwords cold things warm up).  Terminology asside, this is a) a theory (all laws are in the scientific sense) not created or destroyed even in the Big-Bang model.  The rest of it is a straw man and a false dilemma and easily handled already.  The missed term, however, is even more embarassing to them and demonstrates that the person who wrote this either has no clue what they are talking about, and/or has the mental capacity of a rock.

 

2.  How did Order Originate?

 

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics states a system (like the Universe) will go from Order to Disorder over time.  But atheists argue the Universe went from chaos and disorder (a big bang) to an orderly Universe.

 

First note the lack of any other explanation here, or any supporting facts: just the use of "they wrong, so we must be right."  In otherwords, a whole lotta bullshit.  As for order coming out of disorder, that is an inevitable result as ordered states are merely a subset of disordered states (in otherwords, a special kind of disorder), that happen to aslo be energetically favorable, by the same laws of Thermodynamics.  Once in that state the system will tend to stay there, acting as a seed, and if one of the randomly occuring ordered states also happens to be self-organizing (orders more things that come in contact with it)...I think the implication is obvious here.

<snippage>

 

However the Law of Biogenesis and the Cell Theory states: "Life only comes from life."  Thus atheists violate these foundations of Biology.

Foundation of Biology, eh?  Then why did  I never hear of this law when I was getting my degree in Biochemistry, oh yeah! it doesn't exist!  And the original law that they are referring to is a disproven one that organic molecules only come from life.  Well I think Dow, Monsanto, etc.  have a few things to say about that...

 

4.  Was there a Cause for People?

 

The Law of Causality states: "Every effect must have a cause."  Atheists would argue there was a cause for a pencil, but they argue there was no cause for people.  Thus atheists violate the Law of Causality.

 

Of course there is a cause, genes are made for survival, and people are generally pretty good at doing that, ergo, people provide a nice vehicle for genes.  Never heard of a Law of Causality either, maybe in philosophy though...

 

5.  Everyone knows Mount Rushmore was the result of intelligent design.  Do you think the human body is the result of intelligent design?

 

Laws of science show that it takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to believe in God.

 

Ok kiddies, first how do you get from the question to the answer here?  Considering that everything above is laughably easy to debunk, this tends to fall apart.  Now, I will let them assert that the human body is a product of intellegent design, in fact I wil let them argue good design.  I will then point out examples of bad design (if we can identify good design, then it follows that we can identify bad design...).  Kind of shoots the perfection of their creator right in the forehead.  I'll give you a start, thogh there are many more examples:  the appendix, an organ whose only appearent purpose is to kill you. You may also want to check out the blood vessels in the head of the femur.  poor supply to the area is easy to disrupt, making a fracture at the head of the hip a rather nasty thing.  This second one came from an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in lower extremity, who has over 25 years of experience in the field. 

 

Happy hunting.  May you free a few more minds.  If this is the best they can throw at you, then the clowns are barely worth anyone's time.

 

Thank you so much BlueGiant! Ivy and I are sitting here reading this and it is not only funny but very informative as well. Its great that people with degrees are here it makes my life a whole hell of a lot easier, due to the fact that the peeps here can put it in simpler terms for us who don't quite speak the scientific techno babble. THANX A MILLION

[BlueGiant]

Thanks, Jester.

 

Feel free to use what I posted above to challenge, print parts of it if you want. I just ask that if you do so, to run it through a spell checker (I should have, there are some lousy typos, as I was going kind of fast when I wrote that).

 

Good luck to y'all.

[spamandham]

Absolutly......

if some one makes a list Ivy and I will be more than happy to distibute them 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Such a list must not make the mistake of requiring too much thought; remember who the target audience is.

[BlueGiant]

Oops, I screwed up. Been a while since I had Thermo, and messed up on the first law. While the first law is not the conservation of mass and energy, it is essentially a statement on the conservation of energy in a system, in essence. It actually states that the energy you get out of a machine (an engine, actually) is, at most, equal to the energy supplied.

 

for more on these laws: Explanation of the Laws.

 

What I referred to above is often called the "Zeroth" Law of Thermo. My mistake. Been a while for me. Their argument still does not hold water due to matter and energy not being created or destroyed (other posts here have got at that pretty well).

 

Sorry about that.

JBG

[Lunar Shadow]

Thanks, Jester.

 

Feel free to use what I posted above to challenge, print parts of it if you want. I just ask that if you do so, to run it through a spell checker (I should have, there are some lousy typos, as I was going kind of fast when I wrote that).

 

Good luck to y'all.

I usually do cuz I suck at spelling as well but again thank you...

[Lunar Shadow]

Such a list must not make the mistake of requiring too much thought; remember who the target audience is.

 

 

quite true spam quite true

[IvyFairy]

Thanks, Jester. 

 

Feel free to use what I posted above to challenge, print parts of it if you want.  I just ask that if you do so, to run it through a spell checker (I should have, there are some lousy typos, as I was going kind of fast when I wrote that).

 

Good luck to y'all.

 

Thanks BlueGiant. Jester and I will work on that and take it over to Valley Bible and post it in the College room. See for what people have to say in responce to some of the information found on here.

[duderonomy]

To all of you scientific brainiac types who answered to this stupid little bookmark...

 

THANK YOU!

 

My little post pales in comparison to yours, but I couldn't say it right; I could only 'feel' it.

 

Your responses were like a good song, where the music/singer says what you yourself feel, but can't express.

 

[BlueGiant]

Hope this isn't too late but please correct things acording to my last post on this thread. Save us all some embaressment (I still can't believe I made that basic a goof.)

[Lunar Shadow]

Well it’s off... Ivy and I printed up the answers and posted them in the church High School and College room and we slipped copies in to the offices of both the "Student ministries leader" and the "College ministries leader" we will see what happens tomorrow when we go to church. And yes Blue Giant we did correct your information so that it shows the facts.

[pitchu]

Well it’s off... <snip> we will see what happens tomorrow when we go to church.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I

CAN

NOT

WAIT

FOR YOUR REPORT!

 

(But I'm praying for the first time in four decades that you don't get in trouble.)

[Druid]

Though my liberal ways make me think that it's ok for anybody to be as stupid as they want I sort of take exception to people actually trying to promote their stupid uneducated views.

 

These questions are full of so much b******t.

 

Take this:

 

1.  How did the Universe Originate?

 

Many atheists believe matter and energy originated from nothing.  But the First Law of Thermodynamics states "matter and Energy is neither created nor destroyed," thus atheists violate this Law of Science.

 

This isn't even the first law. This statement isn't even true.

 

"matter and Energy is neither created nor destroyed,"

 

Please if you are going even to start at least educate yourself a tiny bit. Matter can be destroyed. At least turned to energy. This statement is false. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. You muppet.

 

As for the question this is similiar to asking a man from most anicient civilisation how does the wind blow? His answer will probably have been the gods did it. Did they? NO. Again lack of knowledge cannot be used to prove anything. This is so illogical it borders on insanity.

 

2.  How did Order Originate?

 

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics states a system (like the Universe) will go from Order to Disorder over time.  But atheists argue the Universe went from chaos and disorder (a big bang) to an orderly Universe.

 

The big bang was not an explosion. Please if you are going to talk about something at least read one explaination of it past the bleedin' title.

 

 

 

3.  How did Life Originate?

 

Atheists believe living organisms first arose from non-living matter.  However the Law of Biogenesis and the Cell Theory states: "Life only comes from life."  Thus atheists violate these foundations of Biology.

 

Not knowing too much about this I can't say much but it seems to me this is as reasonable as using Maxwell's equations (theory of electromagnetism) to explain gravity.

 

4.  Was there a Cause for People?

 

The Law of Causality states: "Every effect must have a cause."  Atheists would argue there was a cause for a pencil, but they argue there was no cause for people.  Thus atheists violate the Law of Causality.

 

No they don't, nobody says this. Natural selection is a cause, just not the cause you like. Stop lying.

 

5.  Everyone knows Mount Rushmore was the result of intelligent design.  Do you think the human body is the result of intelligent design?

 

No. Speaking as an engineer. No. Sure different parts do their job well but what about the appendix. If I placed a part into any device that did not do much for it's overall function, if anything, but was probe to fatal error which would crash the whole system. I'd be fired.

 

Unless by intelligent design you mean the level of intelligence that would write and believe this nonsense.

[Lunar Shadow]

Well nothing to report thus far the evening college group was cancelled due to the holiday weekend. have yet to hear from the Youth pastors of the church (both of whom I know quite well) they are both out of town and have yet had a chance to read the replies to the infamous "bookmark" that Ivy and I picked up.

[pitchu]

Well nothing to report thus far the evening college group was cancelled due to the holiday weekend. have yet to hear from the Youth pastors of the church (both of whom I know quite well) they are both out of town and have yet had a chance to read the replies to the infamous "bookmark" that Ivy and I picked up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't you just hate long holiday weekends at a time like this?!