Ouroboros Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Shhh... you gave away the secret. Now everyone can attain enlightenment. I'm a true Buddha. I share my knowledge, and I don't even dare to call it wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I have been at work all day and have been reading and thinking since. I don't know that I know. I can see many points and can put survival rational into most all forms of existance today, even religion, but still do not understand what put the initial lifeform into survival mode...... You turning the cause and effect backwards. He who survive is the one who survives. Can God create a world where the one that not survives is the one that survives? Think about it. How can something that not-survive the someone that survive? It's a contradiction. It makes words having no meaning. Life is about survival. We are alive because our ancestors were the ones that survived. But those who didn't survive, they don't live today... do they? I guess one of my initial thoughts before posting was, sure, an ex can participate in love, but if there is an afterlife, surely as the creator creates, he can create a place without love. And I say that, not to belittle your choice, but because having faith in a place or existance without the evil that goes on in this world is what allows me to rest. I will say that I respectfully disagree with some of the thoughts, but we knew that. I am appreciative of all of the thoughts and participation. Sure. The problem is that you look for purpose before you look for function. A function is a function, and it's only a being with a mind that can ponder about if those functions had an initial purpose. But it doesn't have to be. Tell me. What's the purpose of a circle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojourner Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 As to the frontal lobe and expression how do we know what that person is experiancing within when their without wont cooperate to tell what is going on within? I dont know that we can answer that because we cant crawl inside the person to know what is going on within them. For all we know they could be experiancing more love within. sojourner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 AM, I believe there is an existance where love is pure. I have faith that this is to be in the presence of God. I find our current existance to be a place where we can only see glimpses of that pure form. AM, aren't we all looking in our own way for a place where evil is absent? Hans, I see a "result", sure, and then try to look for the function that helps me understand the "result". If God creates, then there was nothing berfore the created. I see a circle as something that man has defined. I will be glad to ponder it if you can point out a closed curve on a flat plane that happens naturally. An example eludes me at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Have you ever tried to find a place in this life without the evil so you can rest? Unless of course you are in some living hell where your very life and safety are under constant immediate threat, I would say you can have peace here in this life now, since it is available here, now. Heaven is a state of mind. Well said. I think we create our own "heaven or hell" right here on earth. You can take hard times and view them as "training" learn from the experience and work your way to peace. Or you can take hard times and wallow in self-pity, thus making it a hopeless hell. You can take a large income, live comfortably and experience a type of heaven, or you can take the same large income, constantly risk it, or abuse it, and make the same situation a hell on earth. Life is what you make it. Heaven, hell and purgatory are right here and now, which will you decide to live in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Sojourner, brain injuries, surgery and other changes to the brain often result in negative changes in personality. Previously loving, friendly individuals can become violent, angry and hostile. I think these are the ones being referred to here. When my Father was being treated for a brain tumour, there were several patients on his ward recovering from brain surgery who had become violet. Previously gentle people who were terrifying their partners and children with their uncharacteristic behaviour. Although it was not possible to 'crawl into their heads' and see whether or not they were experiencing more love, it was possible to see the agonised emotions on the faces of those who loved them and see their confusion and tears. If God is the only source of love, sometimes he walks out on the injured and the diseased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 MM, I agree with Soj on that one. Do you remember the Terri Shivo (sp)....the whole US could not define that, and I am just a redneck from Texas....My belief now is the soul is separate from the body, the Spirit can inhabit the body with the soul, and when we die, we inhabit the Spirit without the old earthly body....if that helps you understand where I am coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 MM, I agree with Soj on that one. Do you remember the Terri Shivo (sp)....the whole US could not define that, and I am just a redneck from Texas....My belief now is the soul is separate from the body, the Spirit can inhabit the body with the soul, and when we die, we inhabit the Spirit without the old earthly body....if that helps you understand where I am coming from. Yeah, and do tell, how does the "spirit" think without a physical "brain". You do know, dont you, that having brain damage can alter personality right? Well, wouldn't having NO brain at all be the ultimate "brain damage". You get wacked on the head hard enough you loose consciousness. Why are you suddenly "awake" if the "wack" is fatal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojourner Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 As to the frontal lobe and expression how do we know what that person is experiancing within when their without wont cooperate to tell what is going on within? I dont know that we can answer that because we cant crawl inside the person to know what is going on within them. For all we know they could be experiancing more love within. sojourner Because alot of people with frontal lobe damage can describe their emotional state. In the documentary I watched, both people said that they didn't feel anything for their families, friends..etc. The frontal lobes are considered our emotional control center and home to our personality. There is no other part of the brain where lesions can cause such a wide variety of symptoms (Kolb & Wishaw, 1990). The frontal lobes are involved in motor function, problem solving, spontaneity, memory, language, initiation, judgement, impulse control, and social and sexual behavior. The frontal lobes are extremely vulnerable to injury due to their location at the front of the cranium, proximity to the sphenoid wing and their large size. MRI studies have shown that the frontal area is the most common region of injury following mild to moderate traumatic brain injury (Levin et al., 1987). http://www.neuroskills.com/tbi/bfrontal.shtml The other interesting part of this is that when someone has frontal lobe damage, it can affect their judgment, impulse control, social and sexual behavior. Which means they are more likely to commit what christians consider "sins" but it might be because they can not control themselves. So is sinning always freewill? Is love from god or from our brain? If their is an intelligent designer why did he put the part of our brain that controls our "self" in the area which can sustain damage the easiest? In the years since my deconversion, I have realized that all the information I ever really would have needed to convince me that christianity has got it wrong, is brain biology. Our "true self" isn't some ghost floating around in a meat package. It is our brain, neurotransmitters, dna..etc. That is incredibly interesting and I thank you for the link. I will certainly give it my time. I am very interested in many things that have to do with our experiances in this life and what Ive always chalked up to being 'spiritual'. I never had an interest in these things before now and would have been too afraid to have my beliefs challanged in this way till now. thanks sojourner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 "If God is the only source of love, sometimes he walks out on the injured and the diseased." I don't know how that can be an absolute. I am with that person, so Love has not walked out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 "If God is the only source of love, sometimes he walks out on the injured and the diseased." I don't know how that can be an absolute. I am with that person, so Love has not walked out... So whereever YOU are then so is god eh? lol must be nice... Do you have a hard time taking a bath? must be frustrating walking around on the surface... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 "If God is the only source of love, sometimes he walks out on the injured and the diseased." I don't know how that can be an absolute. I am with that person, so Love has not walked out... So...you are god then? Or are you acknowleding the truth implied in Alice's statement? She does say "if" there.... so if god is not the only source of love, then you are now contradicting your earlier implications that god is the source of all love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojourner Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Do any of you know of a link that might be similar to the frontal lobe one that would do with a study on faith and how it is produced brain wise? sojourner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 No, I am saying the HS resides within me. How is God present with us today? Is that not the point of the age or time we are in with respect to God. Does He not ask us to be the body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I can see ya'lls point about proof, but I do not understand how you can look at something that has evloved, especially man, to know with certainty the original. I don't wish to be mean either, but I don't see proof from your side either. I do enjoy the conversation. It is one thing that makes me feel "alive". Thanks MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 That awareness of impending death prompted questions: why are we here? What happens when we die? Answers were needed. http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/feb/24/1 I think this also gives credability to "If god did not exist, it would be necessary for man to invent him". Fear of death is the number one reason for the existance of religion imo. The biggest reason of all. No person really seems to want to "die and be dead". We are just too goal oriented. We save for nice homes, train for new jobs, invest for retirement, we have "plans" for every stage of our lives. Now, put death in the picture. Well, folks need to "invest" in that too. So they adopt a god mindset, embrace religion, and try to do good works or have great faith as an "investment" in the death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojourner Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I have had it with christianity as it is presented to me in some forms for instance the calvinist beliefs - God is nothing more than a selective jerk that chooses some to give happiness to and some to give torment to woohoo makes me want to dance and shout ! especailly for all eternity, wow, I can roast marshmellows over the fires my loved ones that werent blessed enought to be chosen to eternal life but instead chosen to roast forever and have a party without any feelings for them anymore because this wonderful God has wiped out my memories of them and replaced them with a love for holiness and justice so I can rejoice in their suffering!! Dang hold me back. Im running into the arms of this God for sure. Feel the love just oozing out of Him. putrid belief to me then there is the arminian belief damn Im smart! I am so special because I was smart enough to choose God before I die! I am now amongst the special chosen ones and can just praise and sing songs to myself as Im so damned smart! Why worship God afterall, it was me me me that got me saved. then there is this absolute soverignty that Im battling with now that people see God as not only God but satan. He is behind all the evil in the world really and if you get spiritually advanced enough you will humbly accept God is the one behind all evil. This one grosses me out most of all. As Madea says 'I can do bad all by myself' I am struggling much with much that is taught I believe at this time in my life in a Good God, how that ends up taking form is yet to be seen. Im sorry for my rant here as you all dont want to hear me go on about God at all Im sure but I am just so sickened by so much and yet I still have faith within that there is an answer and a good God I feel bad for unloading this on you all so forgive me if Ive offened any of you but that is some of whats inside me sojourner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Sorry MM, I missed one of you posts because they were coming in quickly. I would like to resond to the hypotheticals when I have more time to write. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I see a circle as something that man has defined. I will be glad to ponder it if you can point out a closed curve on a flat plane that happens naturally. An example eludes me at this time. To be a little sarcastic here: Well, it can't be. The circle is sooo perfect, so it must be God that created it. Circles can't exist unless a super-begin from another dimension makes them. That's how the religious ideas works. Things that we like and admire, we attribute to have been created by God. Who says that "love" is something good? We do. Humans define love as something good. Humans define what we think is good. Is our love for each other good for all other species and animals and biological life? Maybe not. Because when we love someone, we might buy flowers to them. So we kill a plant to show our love. If the plant was aware of its existence, it would consider us evil. So is human love really good in the perspective of Everything? My opinion is: no. But I do think it's good for me, and it's good for any human who feels it, or for any animals (dogs, cats ...) that feels it too. But it's not necessarily good in an absolute and all encompassing way. That's the riddiculous religious mind that only thinks that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 MM, Are you satisfied with the answers that science is presenting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 MM,Are you satisfied with the answers that science is presenting? Are you satisified with the answers the bible is presenting? Think they are more logical and valid then science? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojourner Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Hey HanSolo I dont know if my post belongs on this thread, sorry for going off on a bunny trail it was really in response to calivinism on another thread and love on this thread, it belongs between the two threads somewheres haha sorry sojourner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 yes, Mike, I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 yes, Mike, I am. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 MM, I agree with Soj on that one. Do you remember the Terri Shivo (sp)....the whole US could not define that, and I am just a redneck from Texas....My belief now is the soul is separate from the body, the Spirit can inhabit the body with the soul, and when we die, we inhabit the Spirit without the old earthly body....if that helps you understand where I am coming from. Define what? Most of her brain were gone. It was mush. It was liquified. Only the functions to keep her body still working were on. Like a computer with all hardware working, and power on, but the CPU was fried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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