Some Thoughts On Creation

[Wizened Sage]

Some thoughts on creation:

 

The disembodied intelligence called god created the universe. Such is the claim. Yet there isn’t a single case on record (or useful theory) of a thought existing which was not traceable to a functioning, biological brain. Indeed, it has repeatedly been shown that a brain, which through disease, accident or death ceases to function, has no thoughts. It appears that “disembodied intelligence†is a contradiction in terms, an oxymoron.

 

Nevertheless…

 

Imagine nothing exists but a disembodied intelligence – no universe, nothing, just a void which itself is nothing. How does this intelligence even have a thought, the simplest thought, since thought is demonstrably all about the relationships of things such as hot or cold, light or dark, tree or not tree, etc., or gradations on continuums like small, larger, very large, largest. Nouns, verbs, adjectives, gerunds, etc., all have to do with things and their actions, states of being, and relationships. And we aren’t just talking about words and their representations here; pictures (mental or otherwise) will have a ground and a figure, or a top and bottom, etc., meaning a picture can’t exist without something to picture - things to populate the picture.

 

So, the disembodied intelligence (god) just suddenly decides, “Hey, I think I’ll create a universe?†But what is universe? What is “create� What is “I� None of these words or concepts could have meaning without relationship to something which already exists. But in the primordial void, nothing exists or ever has existed. How could there be thought? How could there be an idea to create a universe? This seems to be the absolute ultimate in pulling oneself into the air by his own bootstraps.

[Ouroboros]

I've had very much the same thoughts.

 

An infinite God is not only passive, but in essence dead. He can never act, because he needs an infinite amount of time to make up his mind.

 

He can't know the future and at the same time act to change the future, since it would cause an infinite regression, and that we can shove in the face of Descartes arguments for God's existence. If infinite regressions can't exist, well then Mr Descartes, then God can't be omniscient or omnipotent.

 

Another one is how God can be infinite in knowledge. Knowledge requires some kind of storage. In other words, God must have an infinite storage unit, which leads to the question how he can retrieve any information. If he needs to search his memory for a particular piece of information, he must most likely have to search for eternity, since the memory is infinite.

 

Welcome Wiz, I like your way of thinking.

[mwc]

Of course the easy answer is something like the old chestnut "god's ways are not our ways, blah, blah, blah" but in this case that doesn't hold much water since we're talking about creation and so god is creating our ways so if god doesn't have ways or understand any ways then how did he put those things into us?

 

Hans holds that this god could never act. And a "god" as he describes would be inert. I've also said that a "god" like xians tend to describe could only have, at most, one thought, and then it would know all it could ever possibly know in that single "big bang" like moment where it knew everything for all time.

 

Kind of a drab existence no matter which path this super being had to go down if you ask me. On one hand it is locked into an existence of it's own "creation" but it cannot ever change it (thanks to omniscience) and on the other hand it's inert.

 

mwc

[Ouroboros]

I've also said that a "god" like xians tend to describe could only have, at most, one thought, and then it would know all it could ever possibly know in that single "big bang" like moment where it knew everything for all time.

That's a good way of saying it, basically if God can think infinitely thoughts in an infinitesimal moment of time, that means he never had to exist for eternity to think up all things, but only for one fraction of a moment he existed, thought all possible thoughts and planned every possible plan, and then he was done and disappeared again to nothingness. A God that already have thought out all and every possible thought there ever will be, he has no reason to think anymore because there's nothing new he can think. He already know the things he can invent and invented them already. That's why a limited and finite god with issues and moral dilemma, just like the pagan gods, are far more believable (philosophically speaking).

 

But again, my position more and more now (the last couple of days) is "show me a God that is not made out of words, but proven by action." The Christian God only exists on paper and in words today, but I want to know if there is a Creator God with immense power and influence on the Universe, but it seems like he's covered by the "vending machine" disclaimer. If God can create a Universe, then he can show us daily miracles to remove every shred of doubt.