My 12 Year Old Son

[xandermac]

My son and I had a conversation this morning while waiting for the school bus. He told me that his PE coach said that Atheist worshiped Satan. Another teacher explained Buddhism as someone that won't eat a cow because it might be their brother. It's been hard enough to explain to him how I could have once believed but now I don't, but for authority figures at school to be telling kids this crap pisses me off. He said that he spoke up and told the class that atheism just meant no religion and that they all gasped. I have told him to be careful when talking about religion at school and to just say that his beliefs are personal. What do you tell your kids to say when the topic of religion comes up?

 

I'm afraid to teach him to be too outspoken about it. This is all still fairly new to us. As you can see I've only been here since last year when I stumbled on to this site looking for answers, and I've found plenty since then. I've explained to him about why I believe in evolution instead of creation, and about all the mythical gods that came before jesus and how similar they are, Noah's ark being impossible, and that they believe the earth is 6 to 10,000 yrs. old and that science has tons of evidence to prove otherwise. Its not been fun telling him all this after years of shoving jesus down his throat. It hurt him that I no longer believed. But now he is beginning to understand it, that we don't not believe because we hate xians or we're angry at god,and we don't worship satan because we don't believe there is such a thing as satan, we believe in science. I try to teach him not to hate anyone but they teach him to hate us non believers at school of all places. This is not the first time at school that they have tried to sneak religion in. They do it all the time, but I dare not protest because I'm way outnumbered.

 

Thanks for letting me vent. :angry:

[Vigile]

Sounds to me as if you have a good handle on the situation. You're son should be proud of the reasonable and sound advice and lessons you are giving him. I wish my own mother could have been so open minded. I don't blame her as I understand she is just not wired that way. But still...

[SilentLoner]

I remember those days. Only difference was I was the sole emerging athiest in school and at home.

 

Tried talking back at school and countering some claims, but for the most part that only earned me some dirty looks.

Eventually I learned to pick my battles and just stayed quiet on the issue. Although the frustration I felt from that helped strengthen my resolve quite a bit.

 

As long as he doesn't let what they're saying get to him he should be fine.

[Grandpa Harley]

as a comment... if the coach wasn't a retard, he'd not be teaching gym to 12 year olds... it's a handy life lesson...

[Japedo]

 

 

 

As far as how your dealing with your son, I agree you're doing a masterful job!! Many people believe because something is of popular opinion that makes it true, I'm glad he has a voice of reason to point him in the right direction.

 

The world is full of dumbasses. That's infuriating to read what happened to your son. I'd be BS and call the teacher to set the record straight. If your son goes to public school you should contact the teacher (Or better yet just go to the school board directly) and say if she's going to broach the subject of world religions or lack there of, she needs to have her facts in order. Teaching false materials is what's causing the dumbing down of this country and spreads the ignorance. As far as the PE coach, he should be checking his religion at the door, he's out of line.

[Rev R]

He told me that his PE coach said that Atheist worshiped Satan. Another teacher explained Buddhism as someone that won't eat a cow because it might be their brother.

 

I'd be slamming my head against the desk right about now, but I might break the desk.

 

 

What do you tell your kids to say when the topic of religion comes up?

He sounds like a pretty sharp kid, so just encourage him to say whatever feels comfortable saying and remind him of the potential consequences of what he says.

 

Now personally I'd be thinking of having a little chat with the administration of your son's school. Not only were the answers given wrong but way off the mark. Whatever happened to suggesting the library when a teacher doesn't know the answer to a question?

[Naughtyhamster]

I remember in fifth grade the music teacher saying that punk and heavy metal stars were abused as kids, but a PE teacher saying that atheists are devil worshippers?! WTF?! He's a PE teacher not a religious studies professor so he should keep his fucking mouth shut!

[GraphicsGuy]

Naughtyhamster: Gees, don't you know that EVERY xian is an EXPERT on other religions? Only they have the one-way ticket to heaven so everyone else is just WRONG!

 

 

xandermac: I think you're doing a great job with your son. I hope I can explain my points of view to my daughter when she's that age. Who knows what's going to happen though with her mother shoving fundyism down her throat...

 

Anyway, I really hate the way that some teachers do not stay neutral on so many subjects. Religion, politics, etc. For some reason many feel they have to impress THEIR beliefs, values, and/or swayings onto the kids in their classes. It's wrong regardless of who it is. Teachers should be teaching kids to think for themselves, not trying to indoctrinate them into a particular way of thinking.

[Taphophilia]

xandermac,

 

I see you live in Alabama, so it's not like you can complain to anyone on the school board. You do realize what the coach and the teacher did were illegal, right? I would suggest telling your son, that it's against the law for a school official to talk about religion to a student and his coach and his teacher broke the law and violated your son's constitutional rights, and might I add, know they did. Though, as usual Christians think they are above the law.

 

Taph

[Vigile]

I'd be BS and call the teacher to set the record straight. If your son goes to public school you should contact the teacher (Or better yet just go to the school board directly) and say if she's going to broach the subject of world religions or lack there of, she needs to have her facts in order

 

I agree with you on principle. As a practical measure, however, this might be more than X is willing to bite off and chew for herself. She lives in Alabama, (perhaps a small town?) The fallout could be pretty heavy and she may not feel like being a martyr for the cause. Even if it's a good one. I couldn't blame her if she didn't feel up to it.

[par4dcourse]

Keep us posted. I have a sharp 9 yo grand-daughter who may start asking questions soon. I wouldn't dream of trying to explain religion before she's ready, but unfortunately the fundies have no qualms about trying to recruit them from birth, and they actively discourage thinking.

[xandermac]

I'd be BS and call the teacher to set the record straight. If your son goes to public school you should contact the teacher (Or better yet just go to the school board directly) and say if she's going to broach the subject of world religions or lack there of, she needs to have her facts in order

 

I agree with you on principle. As a practical measure, however, this might be more than X is willing to bite off and chew for herself. She lives in Alabama, (perhaps a small town?) The fallout could be pretty heavy and she may not feel like being a martyr for the cause. Even if it's a good one. I couldn't blame her if she didn't feel up to it.

 

 

I do live in a small town and I am afraid. Not just for me but for him and my family.

[Japedo]

I agree with you on principle. As a practical measure, however, this might be more than X is willing to bite off and chew for herself. She lives in Alabama, (perhaps a small town?) The fallout could be pretty heavy and she may not feel like being a martyr for the cause. Even if it's a good one. I couldn't blame her if she didn't feel up to it.

 

 

Concede that point Vigile! There is a light hearted and a much less aggressive way to go about it such as. child's loved one is an atheist and unthoughtful statements by my sons gym teacher caused unnecessary anxiety in my child. While I understand said persons religious rights I'd also ask them to respect others. I send my child to your school for an education, religious teachings really should be left up to us parents. I don't want to cause waves but really my son doesn't need the stress.

 

There is no need to go guns' a blazing of course but a gentile nudge of hey look here without ire broaches the subject. Get a load of this had been said to a student who practiced Islam or Judaism. Why should everyone else say nothing when Xtians say whatever they feel like without consequence?

 

Christians get away with this type of thing because no one does say anything. They are bullies pure and simple. Having said that, I don't live in the bible belt which is why I concede the point. Just pointing things out is all.

[Japedo]

I do live in a small town and I am afraid. Not just for me but for him and my family.

 

 

Understand Xander, I'm so sorry you live in such an oppressive environment. (( Hugs! ))

[upstarter]

I don't live in Alabama (thankfully), so I'm not sure I have any useful advice. In our case we try to teach our 10 year old son what we believe (or don't believe) and why. But we also teach him that xtianity is very important to some people (Grandma and Grandpa most noteably) and that we need to be sensitive to that. People are entitled to believe what they want as long as they aren't hurting people.

 

If my son came home and said that a teacher had said that atheists were satan worshippers, I think all I could do really is talk to him about why that isn't true and help him try to understand that some people are ignorant. In the same way I'd do if he came home and said the teacher said all cows are gay. I mean really, it's so ludicrous.

 

I think the main thing is that you son has open dialogue with you, so that you know what he's being told at school so you can explain or refute it as necessary.

 

I know what you mean about being afraid, and I feel terrible that you have to live like that. My son was watching Futurama the other night and it was the Xmas episode. So hilarious. Anyway, when it was done he announced that since we aren't Christians, from now on we should call our holiday xmas. My response was, "Absolutely... to everyone but Grandma!" Sometimes sadly, I guess we just have to teach them to be careful what they say to who.

 

Heather

[2Bornot2B]

From the perspective of a former educator....

 

I taught 6th grade world history at a middle school in Louisiana. The textbook taught about world religions and the religions of the ancients. I have to say that my students really got into all of it. I explained the difference between all of the major religions. In public school, you cannot promote one religion over another. I had a Buddhist girl in my class. I made sure and gave a disclaimer whenever I taught about religion that this was something that they needed to learn about because it is important to understand what other people believe and why they do things the way that they do. I told them that this in no way affected what they chose to believe or not to believe. I was just disseminating information. I followed the information that was in the book and did not answer questions that I did not know the answers to. One important thing to note: deist, agnostic, or atheistic philosophies were not mentioned. By the way, I did this while I was still a Christian but I did not promote it over anything else. I would say that you definitely have a case against the school though because they did break the law. Being from the south though, I can understand the urge to just let it go and teach your son what is right at home. If this sort of thing continued, I might contact the ACLU and let them handle it. They can do the whole thing anominously.

 

Josh

[hereticzero]

My son and I had a conversation this morning while waiting for the school bus. He told me that his PE coach said that Atheist worshiped Satan. Another teacher explained Buddhism as someone that won't eat a cow because it might be their brother. It's been hard enough to explain to him how I could have once believed but now I don't, but for authority figures at school to be telling kids this crap pisses me off. He said that he spoke up and told the class that atheism just meant no religion and that they all gasped. I have told him to be careful when talking about religion at school and to just say that his beliefs are personal. What do you tell your kids to say when the topic of religion comes up?

 

I'm afraid to teach him to be too outspoken about it. This is all still fairly new to us. As you can see I've only been here since last year when I stumbled on to this site looking for answers, and I've found plenty since then. I've explained to him about why I believe in evolution instead of creation, and about all the mythical gods that came before jesus and how similar they are, Noah's ark being impossible, and that they believe the earth is 6 to 10,000 yrs. old and that science has tons of evidence to prove otherwise. Its not been fun telling him all this after years of shoving jesus down his throat. It hurt him that I no longer believed. But now he is beginning to understand it, that we don't not believe because we hate xians or we're angry at god,and we don't worship satan because we don't believe there is such a thing as satan, we believe in science. I try to teach him not to hate anyone but they teach him to hate us non believers at school of all places. This is not the first time at school that they have tried to sneak religion in. They do it all the time, but I dare not protest because I'm way outnumbered.

 

Thanks for letting me vent. :angry:

 

 

Welcome to public schooling! My son wears a Libertarian T-shirt with the Bill of Rights, void where prohibited, printed on it. Teachers made him turn it inside out last year but not this year after the Supreme Court ruled the school could not limit free speech along religious or political lines, only speech that called for illegal activity, such as drug use, could be regulated by a school. The school does not bring up religion to my son, but if they ask I've told him to respond, 'We are the Bored, religion is irrelevant in a Democratic Collective.'

[Naughtyhamster]

Naughtyhamster: Gees, don't you know that EVERY xian is an EXPERT on other religions? Only they have the one-way ticket to heaven so everyone else is just WRONG!

 

 

You're right as my music teacher was xtian too, though he liked Beatles and cutesy pop tunes, and thought any "Angry sounding music" was the work of some angry person who was abused as a kid and so decided to get into "The devil's music." And this was in a public school too (but in the mid 1980's though)!

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

My son and I had a conversation this morning while waiting for the school bus. He told me that his PE coach said that Atheist worshiped Satan. Another teacher explained Buddhism as someone that won't eat a cow because it might be their brother. It's been hard enough to explain to him how I could have once believed but now I don't, but for authority figures at school to be telling kids this crap pisses me off. He said that he spoke up and told the class that atheism just meant no religion and that they all gasped. I have told him to be careful when talking about religion at school and to just say that his beliefs are personal. What do you tell your kids to say when the topic of religion comes up?

 

I'm afraid to teach him to be too outspoken about it. This is all still fairly new to us. As you can see I've only been here since last year when I stumbled on to this site looking for answers, and I've found plenty since then. I've explained to him about why I believe in evolution instead of creation, and about all the mythical gods that came before jesus and how similar they are, Noah's ark being impossible, and that they believe the earth is 6 to 10,000 yrs. old and that science has tons of evidence to prove otherwise. Its not been fun telling him all this after years of shoving jesus down his throat. It hurt him that I no longer believed. But now he is beginning to understand it, that we don't not believe because we hate xians or we're angry at god,and we don't worship satan because we don't believe there is such a thing as satan, we believe in science. I try to teach him not to hate anyone but they teach him to hate us non believers at school of all places. This is not the first time at school that they have tried to sneak religion in. They do it all the time, but I dare not protest because I'm way outnumbered.

 

Thanks for letting me vent. :angry:

 

I absolutely feel your pain, xander. My children are in the Etowah Co. School system and I am certain they will receive a Christian indoctrination there. It's just going to be unavoidable. The type of area like Sand Mountain will be the last bastion for fundamentalist christianity when logic and reason finally make their way through the ranks of the rest of the country. I want my children out of there so badly I can taste it. You know, it's sad. The area is beautiful country and for the most part the people are friendly (until you're asked "So where do YOU go to church?" and have to answer, "I don't"). The religious dogma that permeates the entire place is its only downfall for me.

 

As for the situation with your son, I know exactly why the P.E teacher said it. To the fundamentalist Christan, anyone who doesn't worship their god, whether they "know" it or not is worshipping Satan. I spent too many years in that mind set. He absolutely believes what he said. The bus driver just sounds like an ignorant hick. So what to do about it? I don't think I can give any better advice than anyone else already has here. You just keep the lines of communication open with your son. It's great that he's comfortable enough to come to you and tell you about what's happened at school. Make sure it stays that way. Make sure you explain your beliefs and your reasoning behind them as best you can to him. Let him know that he's got the right to make up his own mind about what he believes as well. Just following the crowd doesn't get you anywhere. If he looks at all the evidence and decides he believes in a god or Jesus, then great. If he looks at it all and decides that there is no god, great. He just shouldn't push his beliefs on others and shouldn't allow others to push their beliefs on him.

[Ro-bear]

as a comment... if the coach wasn't a retard, he'd not be teaching gym to 12 year olds... it's a handy life lesson...

 

Problem is, that simply isn't true. When I was twelve years old, my gym teacher was a brilliant football coach. His teams beat other junior high school teams so badly that it was difficult to schedule opponents. The team had to travel widely to play a full schedule. He was also a very articulate man and a student of military history. He was also a rather brutish, ill-mannered man, but people seemed to accept this because of his charisma. He had a calling; he was the quintessential junior high school coach. He loved his job. He wasn't a retard by anyone's standards. So you are just wrong. Let's not send the boy back to school spouting bullshit almost as stupid as that his coach fulminates.

 

I personally think both the coach and the teacher who mischaracterized Buddhism need to be confronted. They, paradoxically, need to learn a lesson.

[Grandpa Harley]

I'm always dubious about a man who is 'called' to hang out with scantily clad 12 year old boys... and you described an emotional reatrd in the above... Emotional retardation means they' spout what ever bullshit as gospel as much as mental retardation does, and they don't have the excuse of not knowing better, it's more to do with their itty bitty ego.

 

However, I shall agree to differ on this point.

[The-Captain]

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of atheism? Atheism means no dieties, not even satan who would qualify as a diety. I wish people would think things through before they allow their brain farts to reach their lips. That coach just sounds like an uneducated bigot.

 

As the uneducated bigots advocate I would say that in his (im guessing) paranoid fundy mind in the end all atheists (and anyone who aint xian) are worshipping satan as they aint worshipping babble god in his way. Or hes just an idiot and not even the fundy brand type, who doesnt realize how to comprehend the meaning of the word from its prefix a- and root-theist.

 

I wont be getting paid for this case after all...

[Ro-bear]

I'm always dubious about a man who is 'called' to hang out with scantily clad 12 year old boys... and you described an emotional reatrd in the above...

However, I shall agree to differ on this point.

 

It's fine to be dubious, I suppose, but you made a sweeping generalization: "...if the coach wasn't a retard, he'd not be teaching gym to 12 year olds... it's a handy life lesson..."

 

The man I described was ill-mannered, but certainly not to a point anyone could reasonably characterize as retarded. I don't know why you can't just admit you are wrong. It's not like you committed a major crime; you simply misrepresented a gross generalization as "a handy life lesson". You could call it hyperbole and leave off trying to defend it as literally true.

[Grandpa Harley]

If it makes you happy, I was wrong about your mate, even though, generally, wanton ill manners are a sign of some form of social dysfunction... and yes it was a sweeping generalisation... but it was based on my experience of gym teachers who mostly seem to have a chip on their shoulder... commonly called their head.

If you think one swallow makes a summer, then that's just dandy. My experience differs... the people who taught at the hell holes I was educated at had just enough intelligence to be depraved, and I could name all 6 of them if pressed. But I readily admit, it's my personal prejudice about gym teachers...

 

However, none of my statements of opinion pass my own internal censorship of blacks, women and gays... that is, if I replace the subject with the word 'black', 'woman' or 'gay' and it becomes offensive to me, then I'm probably going over the line... thus you are quite right in upbraiding me on this.