Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 I have a very good friend who has been saved by a train accident. The night when he bought a ticket he heard a very clear voice in his head: "Don't do this". The next day he heard on the news about the train accident. So I firmly believe that your son will be healed. God can't hate your son. "For God so loved the world"- this means that he loves everybody, including your son. I'm sure some day we will have our answers why some things happen and why others don't. But it won't be in this alife. Even Job didn't receive his answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 I have a very good friend who has been saved by a train accident. The night when he bought a ticket he heard a very clear voice in his head: "Don't do this". The next day he heard on the news about the train accident.So I firmly believe that your son will be healed. God can't hate your son. "For God so loved the world"- this means that he loves everybody, including your son. I'm sure some day we will have our answers why some things happen and why others don't. But it won't be in this afterlife. Even Job didn't receive his answers. I hope he does heal him. If he does, I too, your new nemesis, will also re-convert. If you read hans's other thread, you will see the full details of it. A LOT of people would re-convert, his whole family, many here, scores of doctors... http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...c=20516&hl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 No, I think it's a matter of faith. You can't be an ex christian if you have enough fight. Okay, I was fine before I read this bullshit line. Enough fight, huh? How about I come over there and kick your ass? Goddamn...if someone said that to my face they'd be on the floor before they finished the line. 18 years I prayed and suffered and fought and NOBODY helped me. Enough fight? How much is enough? When you have your mental faculties and your emotions beat to a fucking pulp day after day the SMART thing to do is to finally throw in the towel. Finish the fight by not fighting. Try a different route and finally, FINALLY get a different fucking result. Jackass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Well, it's not like "there is no hell". There is judgement. The bible says that our God is fire. We take it seriously. So... better to repent and not taste the wrath of God. Also, Universalism is more like an idea. Maybe there will be annihilation for some people. But most certainly I don't believe in everlasting torment. Oh yeah, better be safe then sorry eh? bwahahahaha pascal's wager keeps so many in bondage, its foolish! Why not read up on it? http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/wager.html There is a gazzillion links on it too. Dig, learn, stop being "skeered", get you an "ain't skeered" bumper sticker and stop all that non-sense. Hey, If you don't eat at Burger King, you will end up in the great fry-vat after you die. Look above at that sentence. There it is in print. "I" claim it was inspired by god. Now the ball is in your court. Eat at BK or burn. So, where you gonna eat tonight? See how damn stupid that is? It's EXACTLY the same wager. I would have thought you'd end up in MacDonalds for all eternity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 I would have thought you'd end up in MacDonalds for all eternity... Damn! I wish I had thought of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 No, I think it's a matter of faith. You can't be an ex christian if you have enough fight. Okay, I was fine before I read this bullshit line. Enough fight, huh? How about I come over there and kick your ass? Goddamn...if someone said that to my face they'd be on the floor before they finished the line. 18 years I prayed and suffered and fought and NOBODY helped me. Enough fight? How much is enough? When you have your mental faculties and your emotions beat to a fucking pulp day after day the SMART thing to do is to finally throw in the towel. Finish the fight by not fighting. Try a different route and finally, FINALLY get a different fucking result. Jackass. Look, this is the way I've been taught in church. You can't accuse me for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 You don't need evidence do believe in God. He stands outside, outside the spacetime, the Universe and... I'm tired for today. TBH, you're presupposing a lot of things... one thing is that you know the bible better than we do... which you don't. The another is that you have the hubris to assume that you have one true view of the TRUTH, and that you, above every other imbecile who has tried sell, cajole, or threaten violence against us to make us beleive, has the power to turn us to the stinking, foetid, ancient evil you claim is 'the light' you're peddling crazy, so move on. We're all stocked up right now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Look, this is the way I've been taught in church. You can't accuse me for that. Oh PLEASE. As weak arguments go, that has to be the weakest I've seen. You really are trying to engage in a battle of wits (in a foreign language) when you are unarmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 Well, I don't say it's the perfect truth, but... I feel it that way. Every Christian has his own personal Jesus, someone to hear his prayers, someone who cares (which is not good, we have over 30 000 denominations and sects). I embraced the concept of Universalism, because it shows the other sideof the coin- of all powerful God (not a one that failed) who has the ability to save all of his creation, not to condemn 90% in flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Well, I don't say it's the perfect truth, but... I feel it that way. enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 OOh. That reminds me of the Depeche Mode (or Marilyn Manson) song: Own Personal Jesus: Your own personal jesus Someone to hear your prayers Someone who cares Your own personal jesus Someone to hear your prayers Someone whos there Feeling unknown And youre all alone Flesh and bone By the telephone Lift up the receiver Ill make you a believer Take second best Put me to the test Things on your chest You need to confess I will deliver You know Im a forgiver Reach out and touch faith Reach out and touch faith Your own personal jesus... Feeling unknown And youre all alone Flesh and bone By the telephone Lift up the receiver Ill make you a believer I will deliver You know Im a forgiver Reach out and touch faith Your own personal jesus Reach out and touch faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 He could be quoting the Johnny Cash cover version from American IV... I preferred 'Hurt' myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 16, 2007 Author Share Posted December 16, 2007 Yes, I quoted that song on purpose... Every Christian finds the way to his own personal Jesus. I don't believe that differences (that separate denominations and sects) will make some people to go to Heaven, others to go to Hell. God doesn't look at your denomination, but to your heart. That's what I feel and believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 That's why I came... To share the good news with you. I was a liberal christian, though not quite a universalist. I've journeyed through paganism, pantheism, heretical gnostic type of christianity, new age, almost-hindu etc on my way to becoming an atheist. I rejected belief in hell a long time ago but I have now philosophised my belief in God away and my demand for evidence for reasons to believe something have meant that I now reject belief in God too. So I've been there, done that, got the T-shirt. You're not telling me anything I've not already heard. And if you accept Jesus again, you will learn how to serve him... Sorry I don't do D/s with men, only with women. Yes, there is God. Define 'God'. What is this 'God'? I don't understand this term you are using. Yes, Hell is an invention of the Church and it's a false teching. Name me something the Church teaches that is not an invention of the Church. It is all false teachings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Look, this is the way I've been taught in church. You can't accuse me for that. Then you ARE being nothing but a dumb, bleating SHEEP. Don't go by what you've been taught. LEARN for yourself. Learn from tons of different people and tons of different opinions. And then form your own opinion. STATE your opinion, but don't force it on anyone else. Don't tell them that their opinion doesn't count. And don't tell people they didn't have enough fight or faith or whatever. You don't know. Nobody knows what someone else may have been through. Ask questions. Never assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Well, I don't say it's the perfect truth, but... I feel it that way. Every Christian has his own personal Jesus, someone to hear his prayers, someone who cares (which is not good, we have over 30 000 denominations and sects). I embraced the concept of Universalism, because it shows the other sideof the coin- of all powerful God (not a one that failed) who has the ability to save all of his creation, not to condemn 90% in flames. OK Save all his creation... He must have been busy that day? It's the WTC 'Falling man'... made something of a splash in NYC. Moral of that story - don't turn in to work early to set up for a conference meal. and as to quoting songs... The little girl she said to me What are these things that I can see Each night when I come home from school And mama calls me in for tea Oh every night a baby dies And every night a mama cries What makes those men do what they do To make that person black and blue Grandpa says their happy now They sit with God in paradise With angels' wings and still somehow It makes me feel like ice Tell me there's a heaven Tell me that it's true Tell me there's a reason Why I'm seeing what I do Tell me there's a heaven Where all those people go Tell me they're all happy now Papa tell me that it's so So do I tell her that it's true That there's a place for me and you Where hungry children smile and say We wouldn't have no other way That every painful crack of bones Is a step along the way Every wrong done is a game plan To that great and joyful day And I'm looking at the father and the son And I'm looking at the mother and the daughter And I'm watching them in tears of pain And I'm watching them suffer Don't tell that little girl Tell me Tell me there's a heaven Tell me that it's true Tell me there's a reason Why I'm seeing what I do Tell me there's a heaven Where all those people go Tell me they're all happy now Papa tell me that it's so SO... Tell me there's a heaven... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 16, 2007 Author Share Posted December 16, 2007 Okay, I'm tired, Good night all. And God bless you. I felt that somebody will understand me here, it seems I was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 You don't need evidence do believe in God. He stands outside, outside the spacetime, the Universe and... But if this God acts in some way and affects our universe in some way then there will be evidence for his existance in the things he does. Yet I've never found any such evidence that couldn't be explained in some other far more simple and far more likely way. If God really did act on this universe then you would expect to find something that can only be explained by the existence of God. If this God however does not act but just stands outside of spacetime and the Universe and doesn't interact with this universe at all (exactly what you would expect from something outside of spacetime and outside of our universe) - then he is of no importance whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Okay, I'm tired, Good night all. And God bless you. I felt that somebody will understand me here, it seems I was wrong. What's to understand? and stick your blessings so far up your arse they are never seen again... you trolling bag of dog vomit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 OK, who created the big bang? What do you think? The particles appeared from a great soup-like nonexistent fluid? I don't know. I'm not a physicist - and neither are you. I know better than to assume knowledge in a discipline that I've never studied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 I felt that somebody will understand me here, it seems I was wrong. We understand you fine. We are not obligated however to: 1. Respect a viewpoint we see as flawed. 2. Tolerate a flawed viewpoint just to play "nice". 3. Care about your feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 However there are no sources which show that Jesus had some kind of ilness. That's because there are no sources other than the Bible that even show that Jesus ever existed except in the minds of christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 However there are no sources which show that Jesus had some kind of ilness. That's because there are no sources other than the Bible that even show that Jesus ever existed except in the minds of christians. I don't know... talking to the 'devil' is evidence of some form of illness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 OK, who created the big bang? What do you think? The particles appeared from a great soup-like nonexistent fluid? I don't know. I'm not a physicist - and neither are you. I know better than to assume knowledge in a discipline that I've never studied. Actually "The particles appeared from a great soup-like nonexistent [sic] fluid" is a pretty good statement of what happens in space-time today. They've been observed in vapour chambers, so it's not even a phenomena of flat or ultra curved space-time (where the stresses, and energies get pretty insane, mathematically). Actually there is a definite possibility that black holes 'vent' protons (effectively Hydrogen nuclei) as they suck up 'virtual' particles, since we don't know (and the maths doesn't predict) whether a black hole 'favours' an anti-particle, a particle or is an equal opportunity devourer and annihilator of matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 YooHoo.... *waves* I really would like you to answer this one... About this survey, I never knew about that. But I've heard about prayers and miracles in Bulgaria, the pastor said that his father was healed of a very serious form of cancer. And he looks like a honest person. Oh please... you believe him because he looks like a honest person? Is this guy honest-looking? Would you believe his claims of miracles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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