GraphicsGuy Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Okay, I'm tired, Good night all. And God bless you. I felt that somebody will understand me here, it seems I was wrong. We all want to be understood. Coming in on your first post proclaiming the "good news" does not say: "Hey all, I'm struggling and trying to understand my faith. Maybe you could tell me why you abandoned yours?" If you genuinely want to be understood then you have to be understanding first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 That sounds interesting Grandpa. One day I might actually start looking into physics a bit more. I usually find biology easier to get my head around though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaiDan Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Not another one... They're coming in by the bunches, for christmas, I suppose. Winning brownie points for Jesus on his bday? Dude, you seems a bit twisted. You have a major fear of death thing going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 I embraced the concept of Universalism, because it shows the other sideof the coin- of all powerful God (not a one that failed) who has the ability to save all of his creation, not to condemn 90% in flames. Narrow is the path to God, and few will walk it... so most of the people will not be saved. (says the Bible/Jesus...) Who should we trust? You, who seems to be accusing the Bible/Jesus of lying... or the Bible/Jesus? For an explaination of why I ask that question, consider... if the Bible states Jesus said something that he didn't, the Bible is lying. If the Bible states that Jesus said something that he did say, but doesn't fit reality and he knows that, then Jesus is lying. (as the Son of God/God Himself, he'd know everything... or the Bible is lying about that) Since you seem to be claiming that Jesus/God WILL save all the people, that they will all reach God, then the path CANNOT be narrow and ALL will walk it... if true, that would mean either the Bible or Jesus lied about it. Of course, you could always claim Jesus never said it... but you're still calling the Bible a liar. No-win situation... but what the heck, don't let that stop you digging yourself deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 That sounds interesting Grandpa. One day I might actually start looking into physics a bit more. I usually find biology easier to get my head around though. Stephen Hawking's Audio book 'The Universe in a Nutshell' is on short rotation in my car stereo.. but then, I am strange like that and before anyone asks, it is read by Simon Prebble, not MC Hawking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Yes, there is God. If there is a god, WHY do you people have to constantly affirm it so matter-of-factly, as if it isn't really as obvious as that statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojourner Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 HanSolo You absolutely Rock! I respect you so much and I want you to know that I would challange any of these people that are so convinced their faith is invincinble to walk a mile in your shoes! Damn I got mad reading this thread sojourner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojourner Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Notscarevangelist, I am so glad that you do not believe in eternal torment, and that you see universalism! That is awesome. I as another universalist would like to encourage you to read the testimonies here before you assume people here just didnt have enough faith. I have never been thru many of the trials I have read on this forum. I have cried many a tear here as I read very real honest peoples lives that would have given anything for God to just reveal Himself to them when they needed so badly to know He was really real and truly cared. I will be the first to admit my religion totally fails me when it comes to miracles, healings and manifestations that would prove God is real. I have nothing to give these folks in that way and for me to think that my words are something they havent heard before a thousand times is just silly. If you want to know some wonderful people hang around but dont fool yourself. Unless you are able to do more than talk your wasting your time evangelizing here. Just giving you my insight from being here for a bit, if you will instead realize you have a vast wealth here at your fingertips. These folks are full of wisdom and will challange you to really think, dig and seek then your time here will be very profitable for you. sojourner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 I have a very good friend who has been saved by a train accident. The night when he bought a ticket he heard a very clear voice in his head: "Don't do this". The next day he heard on the news about the train accident. So God saves some, and he hurts others. So I firmly believe that your son will be healed. God can't hate your son. That's why I don't think there is a God. "For God so loved the world"- this means that he loves everybody, including your son.I'm sure some day we will have our answers why some things happen and why others don't. But it won't be in this alife. Then it's a very sick God. My son is today an atheist, the whole family is, from the youngest to the oldest, and it's not by pressure or anything. Each one of us have individually come to the conclusion it's the real deal. My son in the wheelchair surprised me last year (or more) by telling me he was an atheist, and it was while I was more agnostic. So, by the Christian ideology, he will go to Hell, just so he can walk again. Nice! What a loving God you promote. Even Job didn't receive his answers. He never asked for anything, and he got a new wife, new kids, new farm, new riches. But his wife and kids they went to Hell... just so God could win the bet with Satan. Again, what a lovely God you promote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Look, this is the way I've been taught in church. You can't accuse me for that. Wha!? What? Noooooo, you did NOT say that... that's soooo frigging cool. Lets analyze that a little. So in church they tell you and teach you how to believe. And you go on and tell other people these things. ... That's no your own personal idea, philosophy or belief then. You believe what someone else believe, and not what you have really found out to be the real deal for you! First of all. Search your own faith, or your faith will be false. A true faith has to come from within. It has to be yours. It has to be from your inner person. It has to be part of you and your identity, or it is just a facade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Look, this is the way I've been taught in church. You can't accuse me for that. Wow, did you really say that? Universalism was one of my baby steps out of christianity. The more I thought, studied and read for myself, the more christianity proved to be false. I know it's a scary concept right now, but I suggest you stop letting the church do your thinking for you and start thinking for yourself. ~Kelli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Kelli, we posted EXACTLY the same time with similar responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Kelli, we posted EXACTLY the same time with similar responses. LOL, that's pretty funny. Great minds..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Well, I don't say it's the perfect truth, but... I feel it that way. Exactly. You believe, because that's how you feel. It's not a perfect or absolute truth, but a supposition, an idea, wishful thinking, that you hope to be true but can't be sure if it is. You feel like it is, but it's not supported by evidence. Every Christian has his own personal Jesus, someone to hear his prayers, someone who cares (which is not good, we have over 30 000 denominations and sects). But you just said that you teach and tell us things that you have been told in Church. Basically what you know has been presented to you from other people, and not from God himself. Secondly, the Bible teaches that the evidence for Jesus to be the true teacher is that the disciples and the apostles would stick together and be one in him (that's Jesus' words), but we can see that it's not like that. So by Jesus own dividing sword, Christianity is a false religion. I embraced the concept of Universalism, because it shows the other sideof the coin- of all powerful God (not a one that failed) who has the ability to save all of his creation, not to condemn 90% in flames. I'm glad that you do, and I honestly wish more Christians did believe that. We could have a less agressive and law changing and political Christianity that wants to force belief on people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Yes, I quoted that song on purpose... Every Christian finds the way to his own personal Jesus. I don't believe that differences (that separate denominations and sects) will make some people to go to Heaven, others to go to Hell. God doesn't look at your denomination, but to your heart.That's what I feel and believe. And maybe he doesn't look at religion at all either, or belief, but just simply on person and their intentions. If God exists, and he did give us free will, then he wouldn't punish us for using it. It's like a country with a dictator. You actually have freedom of speech in every dictatorship. You know that right? Because you can say anything you want, but they will torture you and kill you for doing it, but no one will stop you from saying what's in your mind. The fundamentalist Christian God is like a dictator. You have free will, but he will give you eternal torture if you use it against his will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Okay, I'm tired, Good night all. And God bless you. I felt that somebody will understand me here, it seems I was wrong. Eeeh... So if someone that loves to drink Smirnoff goes to a AA meeting and tell them how lovely vodka is, and that vodka does not kill or make people addictive, and that they got it wrong somehow, afterwards say "I felt that somebody would understand me, it seems I was wrong"... I would start thinking... is something missing between those ears? Seriously, Not_Scary, this is an Ex-Christian website, so it's okay that you come here, but I just have a hard time grasph why you thought that someone here would understand your Christian views... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Soj, you're the proof there is a small chance we could bridge between the camps one day. It starts with people who can accept the other side, even if we don't agree on certain areas, but at least we can see that there's more to peoples standpoints and views than just words and ideas. We have to accept that we're different, and that we don't see all things the same way, but to save ourself from final destruction we have to at least remove extremism and categorical thinking from our mainstream society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 *skims the thread* Oh well. Universalist, eh? At least this one doesn't sound totally braindead like all those others. We'll see. *grabs bread and a full mead horn and watches the thread from a comfortable couch* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 16, 2007 Author Share Posted December 16, 2007 (morning all) HanSolo - There are few teachings universalists can't embrace. And they can attend *any* church. Universalism is not a denomination, it's an idea (though I've heard there are some universalist churches). We are talking about the teaching of eternat torment, the teahing that only few will got saved. But what about the other teachings in church? We accept them if they don't contradict our faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted December 16, 2007 Author Share Posted December 16, 2007 *skims the thread*Oh well. Universalist, eh? At least this one doesn't sound totally braindead like all those others. We'll see. *grabs bread and a full mead horn and watches the thread from a comfortable couch* I don't know why you view all the Cristians as braindead. There are a lot of people, even scientists who believe in Jesus. I'm not talking about silly young earth creationists but about serious people like me and you. Of course there are all these braindeads who think that if you don't believe that the Earth is 6000 years old you're not a true hardcore Christian, if you don't speak in tongues you'll never get saved and so on and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 *skims the thread*Oh well. Universalist, eh? At least this one doesn't sound totally braindead like all those others. We'll see. *grabs bread and a full mead horn and watches the thread from a comfortable couch* I don't know why you view all the Cristians as braindead. Maybe because the evidence shows they usually are? Seriously, going by the ones we get coming here, braindead is a polite term for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Kelli, we posted EXACTLY the same time with similar responses. LOL, that's pretty funny. Great minds..... or fools seldom differ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Kelli, we posted EXACTLY the same time with similar responses. LOL, that's pretty funny. Great minds..... or fools seldom differ... Thanks Don't worry, I'm banking this stuff and someday.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 *skims the thread* Oh well. Universalist, eh? At least this one doesn't sound totally braindead like all those others. We'll see. *grabs bread and a full mead horn and watches the thread from a comfortable couch* Thur, old thing! You need to read this one's posts a bit closer. If he has a brain cell it has nearly atrophied. The fact he doesn't believe in Hell is less a sign of nascent intelligence and more a child's inability to deal with the horror of the cult he is aligning himself with. And at the risk of being pilloried by the Sojourner fan club, I feel pretty much the same way about her... simply because something is 'too horrible' doesn't make it any less a part of Christian dogma, and a key one. For the Christian meme to work, there has to be a negative to not following the Christ. That, in Christianity is 'Eternal Torment'. You don't like it, find a Religious meme that doesn't have an eternal hell... Hinduism is good... and you get more than one bite of the cherry, and only temporary hells... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Kelli, we posted EXACTLY the same time with similar responses. LOL, that's pretty funny. Great minds..... or fools seldom differ... Thanks Don't worry, I'm banking this stuff and someday.... I'm an equal opportunities curmudgeon. I never assume that I'm not the fool who's not differing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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