Theodicy

[SWIM]

Unless you'd not noticed, I'm the only one who actually takes much notice of you... but that's because you're a troll and I enjoy baiting trolls...

 

Now, go away before I taunt you some more...

 

You have been patient with me, in your own way, of course.

 

There is so much good stuff on this forum that I thought everyone was too busy for me. I am not here to really engage as I am to learn so I did not notice not being noticed. Actually I am still a bit tied up here. I cannot pm or do some other things so it seems as though you are not the only one who is wary of me.

 

What are some of you so afraid of? Even if a troll did come to this forum but showed respect and followed the rules, why evict this troll or person?

 

 

 

Ain't skeered

 

But I play really, really rough sometimes, and that's not a good thing I know, but I get carried away. Stupid irritates me to no-end, so lately I have been leaving the baseball bat at the door...

 

You obviously are not "evicted" if you can post. You *might* be restricted (cannot speak for Dave or Kevin), but they do that sometimes to "see" how far you are willing to go. Some fundies come here preaching endlessly, non-stop stream of babble that is actually PAINFULL to some of the people here newly de-converted. Some are still afraid to come out as an atheist. I don't have that problem. Been an ex-xtian for 30+ years. But STILL after all this time, the level of sheer stupid some fundies bring here gets too me. I guess it's because I have higher "hopes" for the intelligence of mankind, and I see closed-minded bible thumpers as one great big speed bump on the highway to our combined greater understandings of "life the universe and everything".

 

Once you have been around for a while, your posts are somewhat at least "sane", you might get all those restrictions lifted, I think that's up to you basically.

 

BTW there are several people that claim to be xtians here that are NOT restricted, and they have (at least one for sure) have been here for years. I think it's ultimately up to you, not the admins, and it might take time.

[justsomeone]

Unless you'd not noticed, I'm the only one who actually takes much notice of you... but that's because you're a troll and I enjoy baiting trolls...

 

Now, go away before I taunt you some more...

 

You have been patient with me, in your own way, of course.

 

There is so much good stuff on this forum that I thought everyone was too busy for me. I am not here to really engage as I am to learn so I did not notice not being noticed. Actually I am still a bit tied up here. I cannot pm or do some other things so it seems as though you are not the only one who is wary of me.

 

What are some of you so afraid of? Even if a troll did come to this forum but showed respect and followed the rules, why evict this troll or person?

 

 

 

Ain't skeered

 

But I play really, really rough sometimes, and that's not a good thing I know, but I get carried away. Stupid irritates me to no-end, so lately I have been leaving the baseball bat at the door...

 

You obviously are not "evicted" if you can post. You *might* be restricted (cannot speak for Dave or Kevin), but they do that sometimes to "see" how far you are willing to go. Some fundies come here preaching endlessly, non-stop stream of babble that is actually PAINFULL to some of the people here newly de-converted. Some are still afraid to come out as an atheist. I don't have that problem. Been an ex-xtian for 30+ years. But STILL after all this time, the level of sheer stupid some fundies bring here gets too me. I guess it's because I have higher "hopes" for the intelligence of mankind, and I see closed-minded bible thumpers as one great big speed bump on the highway to our combined greater understandings of "life the universe and everything".

 

Once you have been around for a while, your posts are somewhat at least "sane", you might get all those restrictions lifted, I think that's up to you basically.

 

BTW there are several people that claim to be xtians here that are NOT restricted, and they have (at least one for sure) have been here for years. I think it's ultimately up to you, not the admins, and it might take time.

 

Thanks much Michael. I'll be patient.

 

js

[Neon Genesis]

Ya know what is interesting? Even with all the pain and misery people endure so many still cling to the hope God is real. Even those and many times especially those who are in the midst of the worst suffering still reach out to God. Go figure. This is more mysterious to me than why God not only allows horrible things to happen but must support and even create these horrible things.

That's nice. It still doesn't explain why God not only allows evil to exist, but you freely admit creates it, nor does it explain why we should worship such a hypocritical God that commands us to not do evil acts but turns around and creates evil acts himself. Nor does it explain why if evil is needed to balance good, why the amount of evil isn't equal to the amount of good. Nor does it anwer why evil is needed to prevent life from being dull and predictable. Nor does it explain why if God needs to make our lives unpredictable, does God get enjoyment out of watching people suffer and why we should worship such a tryannical God. You also still have not answered my question. When God answers some people's prayers but doesn't answer other people's prayers, is God acting like a good Samaritan or is he acting like a Pharisee? Please stop dodging my questions. Oh, and you can't use "God's mysterious ways" as an answer, either.

 

Did you know the Bible clearly states that God created and creates evil? Is there evil in a city and God has not done it? amos 3. I, God create evil. isaiah 45 and many more.

 

Intereesting huh?

 

js

That's nice. So, why is this God worthy of worship again?

[Deva]

There is so much good stuff on this forum that I thought everyone was too busy for me.

 

We are not "too busy for you." Personally, I just choose not to engage too much with someone who views Jesus Christ as some symbol of truth. I think that's nonsense. Actually, I can't remember what word you used in the other thread-- if it wasn't "truth" please correct me.

 

What are some of you so afraid of? Even if a troll did come to this forum but showed respect and followed the rules, why evict this troll or person?

 

We are not afraid. You aren't evicted, and you are new to this site.

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with you justsomeone. You seem to have a sense of humor and not take yourself too seriously. I don't see you quoting a lot of Bible at me. That is actually refereshing.

 

We are not all atheists on here. We have many different views. One thing most of us have in common is a dislike of Christianity, after all, this is EX-Christian. We have rejected it. So if you come on touting the Bible as something valuable and worth studying, some of us might want to know why. Some of us might be interested as to why you want to use a word like "truth" and equate it with Jesus Christ. I said MIGHT be interested. I am not so much.

[Deva]

Some are still afraid to come out as an atheist. I don't have that problem.

 

Michael, with all due respect, implying that those on this site who are not atheists are "afraid" is something I don't think I have heard from you before. Am I hearing you right?

[justsomeone]

There is so much good stuff on this forum that I thought everyone was too busy for me.

 

We are not "too busy for you." Personally, I just choose not to engage too much with someone who views Jesus Christ as some symbol of truth. I think that's nonsense. Actually, I can't remember what word you used in the other thread-- if it wasn't "truth" please correct me.

 

What are some of you so afraid of? Even if a troll did come to this forum but showed respect and followed the rules, why evict this troll or person?

 

We are not afraid. You aren't evicted, and you are new to this site.

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with you justsomeone. You seem to have a sense of humor and not take yourself too seriously. I don't see you quoting a lot of Bible at me. That is actually refereshing.

 

We are not all atheists on here. We have many different views. One thing most of us have in common is a dislike of Christianity, after all, this is EX-Christian. We have rejected it. So if you come on touting the Bible as something valuable and worth studying, some of us might want to know why. Some of us might be interested as to why you want to use a word like "truth" and equate it with Jesus Christ. I said MIGHT be interested. I am not so much.

 

Hey Deva, I know you may not be interested but I want to say why I equate Jesus with truth. According to the Bible Jesus is said to be the truth, personified. You know, I am the way, the truth and the life.

 

So if someone, say a Buddhist, is seeking truth, this person may call it nirvana or something but the lable doesn't change the fact that truth is what is being sought after.

 

And I was evicted but I persisted and contacted an administrator from outside of this forum, which was not an easy thing to do, and I was graciously allowed back. You are well protected here.

 

Your 'dislike' of Christianity is why I started the thread in Lion's Den that got me in trouble. I really think it is not Christianity that is rejected, it is people's perverse versions of it that is and I applaud this kind of rejection.

 

I may tout the Bible as valuable but I also will tout a movie like Bourne Identity as valuable too and I may even tout the writings of Gramps here to be valuable too. I suppose somewhere along the line I will offend someone.

 

js

[Deva]

Hey Deva, I know you may not be interested but I want to say why I equate Jesus with truth. According to the Bible Jesus is said to be the truth, personified. You know, I am the way, the truth and the life.

 

Yes, it says that. Do you believe everything you read?

 

So if someone, say a Buddhist, is seeking truth, this person may call it nirvana or something but the lable doesn't change the fact that truth is what is being sought after.

 

Buddhists don't equate "truth" with "nirvana." The words don't have the same meaning. This statement doesn't make sense. Do you know anything about Buddhism?

 

And I was evicted

 

OK, I stand corrected.

 

I really think it is not Christianity that is rejected, it is people's perverse versions of it that is and I applaud this kind of rejection.

 

We have heard this many times before. We keep getting Christians in here that want to give us their version. None of it is persuasive. Your version is no exception.

 

I may tout the Bible as valuable but I also will tout a movie like Bourne Identity as valuable too and I may even tout the writings of Gramps here to be valuable too. I suppose somewhere along the line I will offend someone

 

Well, we don't go on a website where people do not like the Bourne Identity and try to push it as something worthwhile. Seems like that would be deliberately antagonistic.

[justsomeone]

Ya know what is interesting? Even with all the pain and misery people endure so many still cling to the hope God is real. Even those and many times especially those who are in the midst of the worst suffering still reach out to God. Go figure. This is more mysterious to me than why God not only allows horrible things to happen but must support and even create these horrible things.

That's nice. It still doesn't explain why God not only allows evil to exist, but you freely admit creates it, nor does it explain why we should worship such a hypocritical God that commands us to not do evil acts but turns around and creates evil acts himself. Nor does it explain why if evil is needed to balance good, why the amount of evil isn't equal to the amount of good. Nor does it anwer why evil is needed to prevent life from being dull and predictable. Nor does it explain why if God needs to make our lives unpredictable, does God get enjoyment out of watching people suffer and why we should worship such a tryannical God. You also still have not answered my question. When God answers some people's prayers but doesn't answer other people's prayers, is God acting like a good Samaritan or is he acting like a Pharisee? Please stop dodging my questions. Oh, and you can't use "God's mysterious ways" as an answer, either.

 

Did you know the Bible clearly states that God created and creates evil? Is there evil in a city and God has not done it? amos 3. I, God create evil. isaiah 45 and many more.

 

Intereesting huh?

 

js

That's nice. So, why is this God worthy of worship again?

 

Hi Neon,

 

I admit the Bible clearly states that God takes full responsibility for evil. Isn't this weird? This is not too often preached, is it? Why?

 

Man's inhumanity to man is a big stumbling block to me, God or no God. How does a Muslim explain this? How does an atheist explain this? How do you explain this, Neon?

 

To think there is a God who could stop a rape or a man from cutting off the arms of a woman just so she cannot hold her nursing baby, to think there is a God that not only allows such atrocities but actually claims to orchestrate them is mind boggling to me as it seems to be to you and many others.

 

Then for this God to speak up and boldly proclaim that it is all this God's doing......... is incredible.

 

Got to give the guy who wrote that about God some credit for being honest I suppose and if there is a God you got to give this God credit for allowing someone to write this.

 

I see nowhere in the Bible where God tries to shun the responsibility of the evil we experience.

 

For God's sake, who is said to have planted the tree of good and evil!

 

You say the balance of good and evil are not balanced. On the whole it must be because evil has never totally taken over. It goes so far and then like a pendulum it starts back towards the good, not ever equally at any given time but over all time so far neither good nor evil have won out according to our view anyway.

 

I'm not sure that if there is a God that this God would get enjoyment out of us suffering.

 

You know I once saw a building being erected and it looked absolutely horrible. With all the scaffolding and ladders and paint buckets and dirty people walking around I thought it was a disaster but what I was seeing was not the finished product but only the building of it.

 

I don't know.

 

js

[Grandpa Harley]

Some are still afraid to come out as an atheist. I don't have that problem.

 

Michael, with all due respect, implying that those on this site who are not atheists are "afraid" is something I don't think I have heard from you before. Am I hearing you right?

 

Acting as the Big M's Jesuit here... no, he means there are some people who have stated that, due to domestic circumstance, they dare not reveal publicly, their atheism, other than on here... they are scared of spouses or blood kin doing something to them for their Satan led apostasy.

[Grandpa Harley]

I may tout the Bible as valuable but I also will tout a movie like Bourne Identity as valuable too and I may even tout the writings of Gramps here to be valuable too. I suppose somewhere along the line I will offend someone

 

Well, we don't go on a website where people do not like the Bourne Identity and try to push it as something worthwhile. Seems like that would be deliberately antagonistic.

 

You could say "Troll like"

 

I'd like moderator confimation his ass was toast and they let him back, along with some reason as to why if that is the case...

[justsomeone]

Hey Deva, I know you may not be interested but I want to say why I equate Jesus with truth. According to the Bible Jesus is said to be the truth, personified. You know, I am the way, the truth and the life.

 

Yes, it says that. Do you believe everything you read?

 

So if someone, say a Buddhist, is seeking truth, this person may call it nirvana or something but the lable doesn't change the fact that truth is what is being sought after.

 

Buddhists don't equate "truth" with "nirvana." The words don't have the same meaning. This statement doesn't make sense. Do you know anything about Buddhism?

 

And I was evicted

 

OK, I stand corrected.

 

I really think it is not Christianity that is rejected, it is people's perverse versions of it that is and I applaud this kind of rejection.

 

We have heard this many times before. We keep getting Christians in here that want to give us their version. None of it is persuasive. Your version is no exception.

 

I may tout the Bible as valuable but I also will tout a movie like Bourne Identity as valuable too and I may even tout the writings of Gramps here to be valuable too. I suppose somewhere along the line I will offend someone

 

Well, we don't go on a website where people do not like the Bourne Identity and try to push it as something worthwhile. Seems like that would be deliberately antagonistic.

 

Good and valid points, Deva, and I hear ya.

 

I don't believe everything I read but I think you did ask me why I equate Jesus with truth and I was just showing you something I read that stated it.

 

I know the Buddhist/nirvana thing was probably off base but I thought you might get my point instead of just seeing my error. No I do not know much of Buddhism but the little I know of it I like. It seems a unique path to something good.

 

My version of Christianity is just that, my version. Not meant for you to accept or reject. My path is my path as yours is yours. I do learn from other people's journey's though so I am grateful to meet people such as yourself who take the time to open up a bit. Some are so guarded and scared and it amazes me many times at all the defenses that are in existence within a person.

 

I am not at this website to push anything on anyone. What good would that do, Deva? If I pushed something on you would that make it yours?

 

js

[Deva]

Some are still afraid to come out as an atheist. I don't have that problem.

 

Michael, with all due respect, implying that those on this site who are not atheists are "afraid" is something I don't think I have heard from you before. Am I hearing you right?

 

Acting as the Big M's Jesuit here... no, he means there are some people who have stated that, due to domestic circumstance, they dare not reveal publicly, their atheism, other than on here... they are scared of spouses or blood kin doing something to them for their Satan led apostasy.

 

 

OK, if that's what he meant, that's fine.

[justsomeone]

I may tout the Bible as valuable but I also will tout a movie like Bourne Identity as valuable too and I may even tout the writings of Gramps here to be valuable too. I suppose somewhere along the line I will offend someone

 

Well, we don't go on a website where people do not like the Bourne Identity and try to push it as something worthwhile. Seems like that would be deliberately antagonistic.

 

You could say "Troll like"

 

I'd like moderator confimation his ass was toast and they let him back, along with some reason as to why if that is the case...

 

Good Morning Gramps,

 

Talk to Dave. He seems a very gracious guy. Oh and Hans Solo too. They aren't the same are they?

 

I think why they let me back is because they saw some value in it and they are not as afraid as you seem to be. Maybe 'afraid' is not the right word but something is motivating you to want to get rid of me and I really can' t believe it is because I am such a idiot.

 

Don't idiots contribute something worthwhile to life? If nothing else it gives those who know so much someone look down on and thus feel elevated.

 

js

[Grandpa Harley]

IF he didn't mean that, I'll personally rip his guts out through his belly button with my teeth and spit out the lint...

 

SO, Michael, no pressure from me....

[Grandpa Harley]

Can some one tell Troll boy I was talking about him, not to him...

 

I find it hard to beleive that one of the mods here would be so over zealous that Dave had to over rule them... just another troll tactic...

[Ouroboros]

For God's sake, who is said to have planted the tree of good and evil!

That's inconsistent with the story. The story tells that it was a tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Not good and evil in itself. Very important distinction. So it doesn't say God created evil, nor does it say it was evil to eat from the fruit. They broke the law that was given, and were consequently punished, but it wasn't because of evil but because of desire. Desire and wants is what causes harm and suffering in our life, just like Buddhism states, and that's what this story tells.

 

 

You know I once saw a building being erected and it looked absolutely horrible. With all the scaffolding and ladders and paint buckets and dirty people walking around I thought it was a disaster but what I was seeing was not the finished product but only the building of it.

 

I don't know.

True. But I love to walk the grounds of a house under construction, and I don't think it looks horrible. Maybe you feel that because you want order and structure and don't like a mess with a lot of activity? What is beauty? And why is "disaster" (in the sense of messy) horrible?

[justsomeone]

Can some one tell Troll boy I was talking about him, not to him...

 

I find it hard to beleive that one of the mods here would be so over zealous that Dave had to over rule them... just another troll tactic...

 

Gramps, you are sounding more like one of my younger children now or like my wife when I look at another skirt with too much enthusiasm!

 

I don't believe Dave had to do anything. I think he made a choice and may I say I am glad of the choice he made. I'm glad the universe and this site is not run by you although it might be interesting.......hmmmmmmm.

 

js

[Ouroboros]

I'd like moderator confimation his ass was toast and they let him back, along with some reason as to why if that is the case...

We let him back in, after he sent a PM claiming he wasn't a troll and he admitted his error in the first post he made. We decided to give him a second chance, because we're nice guys (no, really! ).

[Ouroboros]

Can some one tell Troll boy I was talking about him, not to him...

 

I find it hard to beleive that one of the mods here would be so over zealous that Dave had to over rule them... just another troll tactic...

 

Gramps, you are sounding more like one of my younger children now or like my wife when I look at another skirt with too much enthusiasm!

 

I don't believe Dave had to do anything. I think he made a choice and may I say I am glad of the choice he made. I'm glad the universe and this site is not run by you although it might be interesting.......hmmmmmmm.

 

js

 

 

 

Cut the crap. This thread is in the Colosseum. Keep the topic, and keep it civil.

[justsomeone]

I'd like moderator confimation his ass was toast and they let him back, along with some reason as to why if that is the case...

We let him back in, after he sent a PM claiming he wasn't a troll and he admitted his error in the first post he made. We decided to give him a second chance, because we're nice guys (no, really! ).

 

I hope I have earned or am earning your trust, Mr. Solo.

 

You are serious about your job here and that is one of the reasons I respect this forum and yes, you are a nice guy.

 

Thanks again for the opportunity that is here to grow.

 

js

[Grandpa Harley]

I'd like moderator confimation his ass was toast and they let him back, along with some reason as to why if that is the case...

We let him back in, after he sent a PM claiming he wasn't a troll and he admitted his error in the first post he made. We decided to give him a second chance, because we're nice guys (no, really! ).

 

Bad move... looking at the biographical details alone the guy is a trolling so-and-so...

 

And his assertion, despite claiming ignorance, that Dave over ruled is just another divisive tactic...

[Deva]

I am not at this website to push anything on anyone. What good would that do, Deva? If I pushed something on you would that make it yours?

 

There is a very thin line between "tout" and "push." Now you just sound silly.

[justsomeone]

For God's sake, who is said to have planted the tree of good and evil!

That's inconsistent with the story. The story tells that it was a tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Not good and evil in itself. Very important distinction. So it doesn't say God created evil, nor does it say it was evil to eat from the fruit. They broke the law that was given, and were consequently punished, but it wasn't because of evil but because of desire. Desire and wants is what causes harm and suffering in our life, just like Buddhism states, and that's what this story tells.

 

 

You know I once saw a building being erected and it looked absolutely horrible. With all the scaffolding and ladders and paint buckets and dirty people walking around I thought it was a disaster but what I was seeing was not the finished product but only the building of it.

 

I don't know.

True. But I love to walk the grounds of a house under construction, and I don't think it looks horrible. Maybe you feel that because you want order and structure and don't like a mess with a lot of activity? What is beauty? And why is "disaster" (in the sense of messy) horrible?

 

Man, Han you know your Bible but maybe like the rest of us, not completely.

 

I do stand corrected about the tree. But in Isaiah 45.7 it says God creates evil. Amos 3.6 and so on. Many many more. This God does not seem to shirk responsibility.

 

I like that knowledge part too because it says to me that evil was in existence already but the knowledge was not. In other words I think Adam and Eve were not perfect (evil) but did not know it until they ate and then the knowledge came. Practically this tells me the author of this story may be trying to say that we people are not as perfect as we may think we are and life's situations will make that abundantly clear to us at some point.

 

I really see your point about the building. I too love a good construction site, even the ones I make myself at home here. There is something satisfying in a job in progress. But I do hope you got my meaning. Maybe I should have used a bloodied body undergoing major heart surgery. Not a pretty sight but the end product, if successful, is the best!

 

Any better?

 

js

[Grandpa Harley]

I find that sort of Uriah Heep-esque faux humbleness quite sickening and I'm now at a loss as to why anyone is actually taking his rambles even semi-seriously

[justsomeone]

I am not at this website to push anything on anyone. What good would that do, Deva? If I pushed something on you would that make it yours?

 

There is a very thin line between "tout" and "push." Now you just sound silly.

 

Silly is sometimes my middle name, sorry. My point is is that I don't need to nor want to push anything on anyone. I see much wasted effort in such an undertaking.

 

Did I miss something or is this your whole response to what I wrote?

 

js